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Corepunk is thinking of having PvE servers.

cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,967
edited May 4 in General Gaming
I read this in Massively that Corepunk developers are floating this idea.

I don't get this the game was ground up developed as a PvP game but now they are thinking of adding a PvE server and give the PvE players what, some half ass game with very little PvE content. Look developers if you develop a PvP game ground up don't try to be greedy and include PvE players with half baked content you cannot afford to spend any time on. 

https://massivelyop.com/2021/05/03/corepunk-is-finally-considering-pve-servers-plans-multiple-closed-betas/
Chamber of Chains
Post edited by cheyane on
UngoodAlBQuirky
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Comments

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 4
    cheyane said:
    I don't get this the game was ground up developed as a PvP game but now they are thinking of adding a PvE server and give the PvE players what, some half ass game with very little PvE content. Look developers if you develop a PvP game ground up don't try to be greedy and include PvE players with half baked content you cannot afford to spend any time on. 
    My impression was that this game was a "top-down WoW" essentially: open world with quests, dungeons, raids and battlegrounds and their initial plan was to have open-world PVP, which sounds a lot like the WoW PVP servers. If that's the case, there is nothing special about its PVP and it could easily have PVE servers (like WoW does) with all the content being equally consumed by both types of servers.
    Asm0deusAlBQuirky
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,669
    edited May 4
    I guess I'm the only one who thought the game looked like it was originally designed to be a moba, then the devs just decided to pivot and make it into a 'mmorpg' since mobas aren't 'in' anymore. Pretty much has all the moba tropes still in place: fog of war, characters, camps, etc.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,967
    edited May 4
    That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

    They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

    It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.
    tzervoRexKushmanMendelAsm0deusUngoodAlBQuirky
    Chamber of Chains
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 4
    cheyane said:
    That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

    They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?
    I see. Then yeah, especially for a small studio like them to consider this sounds iffy.

    Edit: after watching this

    What do we know about Corepunk PVP? - YouTube

    to me it sounds like their PVP content design and ruleset is a mix of WoW (arenas, BGs) and BDO (open world PVP to contest grindspots, karma). I think PVE servers could still be doable (it is not like EVE for example, where the whole design and economy is based on item destruction and PVP).
    Post edited by tzervo on
    AlBQuirky
  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 628
    cheyane said:
    That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

    They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

    It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.
    Some of us PVEers don't really care for story and lore either, just give me plenty of dungeons, world bosses, non instanced and fully customizable housing, and robust trading features and I'm a happy camper. These days I prefer to make my own stories and goals in games rather than the tired, rehashed ideas found in pretty much everything.

    tzervocameltosisSovrathTheocritusAlBQuirky

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 3,005
    cheyane said:
    That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

    They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

    It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.
    Some of us PVEers don't really care for story and lore either, just give me plenty of dungeons, world bosses, non instanced and fully customizable housing, and robust trading features and I'm a happy camper. These days I prefer to make my own stories and goals in games rather than the tired, rehashed ideas found in pretty much everything.


    I'm with you on this, I really couldn't care less about stories and quests. I just need some interesting (deep) mechanics and a cool world to explore and do stuff in.


    For example, im playing ARK at the moment, but playing it single player. Never seen another real person, not had a single quest, and the player progression was over and completed pretty damn quickly. But, I've easily had 200+ hours into that game because there are enough mechanics to keep things interesting, and the player building stuff gives me some really long term things to work towards.
    RexKushmanAlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    So let me get this straight.

    PVP game developers ask their followers if anyone is interested in PVE only servers in addition to the planned PVP servers and the PVE crowd gets all riled over the suggestion?

    What am I missing? Shouldn't the outrage be coming from disenchanted PVP players?  :|

    OK, sure, it won't have a lot of PVE content but if there are enough players interested in such an environment "as is" I don't see the harm, at least not from a PVE player's perspective.






    AlBQuirkytzervo

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,817
    Kyleran said:
    So let me get this straight.

    PVP game developers ask their followers if anyone is interested in PVE only servers in addition to the planned PVP servers and the PVE crowd gets all riled over the suggestion?

    What am I missing? Shouldn't the outrage be coming from disenchanted PVP players?  :|

    OK, sure, it won't have a lot of PVE content but if there are enough players interested in such an environment "as is" I don't see the harm, at least not from a PVE player's perspective.






    The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

    If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.
    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,339
    edited May 4
    100% YES add PVE servers.

    Think Albion w/ PVE only server then that game would have something for everyone.
    TorvalAlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:



    The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

    If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.
    See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?
    AlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,879
    BruceYee said:
    100% YES add PVE servers.

    Think Albion w/ PVE only server then that game would have something for everyone.

    If you want Albion but PVE server , just play UO and stay in Trammel , Its a far superior experience in that respect anyway ..
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,333
    cheyane said:
    That is not true they have developed systems specifically for PvP  like wards for PvP and fog of war and PvE content require good writing and interesting boss mechanics and most PvP games don't have that kind of content.

    They have classes solely for PvP and also people to hunt down players who have bounties for killing other players too much. So are they just going to just delete these?

    It really grinds my gears that developers think that PvE players will simply be content with a few quests and bosses to kill. No we want good writing and lore and interesting involved quests that require good mechanics to boss killing. No shortchanging us because you think we are easy to please with the no open world PvP thing.
    Some of us PVEers don't really care for story and lore either, just give me plenty of dungeons, world bosses, non instanced and fully customizable housing, and robust trading features and I'm a happy camper. These days I prefer to make my own stories and goals in games rather than the tired, rehashed ideas found in pretty much everything.


    I don't even read the quests or the lore usually.....
    RexKushmanAlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 5
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

    If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.
    See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?
    Because if there is not enough content and/or systems developed for it PVE players will get bored and move on (see Legends of Aria, Worlds Adrift, Population Zero). Naval Action for example has both server types. Its biggest attraction is the big nation vs nation naval battles and dev focus is on that. The PVE server has no faction warfare so it is much less populated than the PVP server.

    Still, Corepunk just having fog of war or karma/bounties does not suddenly make it a PVP-oriented game. How is the economy? Territory/faction warfare? Other PVP content or systems?

    It really depends on what kind of content the game will have and what they will keep focusing on post launch. From here:

    COREPUNK | faq

    they say that killing another player rewards you with Honor points that you can use to get gear. If they are focused on that aspect and design then just tacking on a PVE server won't work. If they focus on quests, open world mobs or other systems that are not exclusive to PVP then it could.
    Post edited by tzervo on
    AlBQuirkyUngood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    tzervo said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

    If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.
    See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?
    Because if there is not enough content and/or systems developed for it PVE players will get bored and move on (see Legends of Aria, Worlds Adrift, Population Zero). Naval Action for example has both server types. Its biggest attraction is the big nation vs nation naval battles and dev focus is on that. The PVE server has no faction warfare so it is much less populated than the PVP server.

    Still, Corepunk just having fog of war or karma/bounties does not suddenly make it a PVP-oriented game. How is the economy? Territory/faction warfare? Other PVP content or systems?

    It really depends on what kind of content the game will have and what they will keep focusing on post launch. From here:

    COREPUNK | faq

    they say that killing another player rewards you with Honor points that you can use to get gear. If they are focused on that aspect and design then just tacking on a PVE server won't work. If they focus on quests, open world mobs or other systems that are not exclusive to PVP then it could.
    Near as I recall, all three examples mentioned added PVE after being largely abandoned by their PVP backers first.

    Sometimes there's no saving a bad game.


    tzervoAlBQuirkyUngood

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 5
    Kyleran said:
    Near as I recall, all three examples mentioned added PVE after being largely abandoned by their PVP backers first.

    Sometimes there's no saving a bad game.
    Could be. You also have Naval Action, a game that is still running fine (albeit niche) and gets updates, whose PVP server is populated but its PVE server is not. And you also have UO which proves that adding PVE servers can work.

    But then the question becomes: does Corepunk offer something for the PVE crowd that other games do not do more or better? Why would a PVE player play this over ESO or GW2 or WoW?

    I still believe it depends on the type of content and design focus. I do not think it is an obvious answer but from what I have seen for this game particularly, adding PVE servers doesn't really hurt. But it is a tough call, there is not lots of information on the game yet.
    Post edited by tzervo on
    AlBQuirkyUngood
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,817
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:



    The real question is why is a Developer who is making a PvP game, asking PvE players what would make them happy.

    If the game is designed to be a PvP game, then some PvE server is just going to come across as some lame neutered version of what the game should be.
    See post above, if players are willing to sign up for a PVE server as is, lame or not why not do it?
    The real reason is mainly because only one can be the money maker.

    I know that sounds cliché but at the end of the day, the two groups mainly want nothing to do with each other, and one of them will be the bread winners for the game. If the studio is big enough to appease both groups (Haven't seen this one happen yet, maybe WoW did it?) where they can build content for both of them, so they both feel valuable, and important, but at the end of the day, most studio's will see one group provide the most population and money, and start making things for them.

    If that is the PvP group, they will revise mechanics, put in content, and things for PvP players into the game, that are just for PvP, and thus the PvE players will feel neglected, and thus runs the risk of driving them off, and getting a slew of bad press in the process.

    The same holds true if the PvE players are the money makers, and content for PvE gets made and the PvP players will feel neglected, and move off, tossing a slew of bad press in the process.

    Even games like GW2, that had PvP game modes, their was a lot of feelings by the PvP community that they were being left to the wayside, and I have to agree with them that their game mode was mainly neglected while PvE mode was getting constant updates. So it was to the surprise of no one that the PvP game modes started to decline in population, and while those players were leaving, they made a legitimate gripe that Anet treated them like second class players.

    This is a risk they take when they play these games. And while it may sound good on paper, to get more people, it is not so great in application.
    tzervoKyleranAlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 5
    Ungood said:
    The real reason is mainly because only one can be the money maker.
    ...
    Even games like GW2, that had PvP game modes, their was a lot of feelings by the PvP community that they were being left to the wayside, and I have to agree with them that their game mode was mainly neglected while PvE mode was getting constant updates. So it was to the surprise of no one that the PvP game modes started to decline in population, and while those players were leaving, they made a legitimate gripe that Anet treated them like second class players.
    I agree but at the same time, if we take GW2's example, while the WvW and sPvP modes were neglected compared to the PVE content and their population declined, I think the game would be poorer without them - especially the WvW mode was a strong offering.

    If the design of the game itself is not working against one of the two types of server (for example, I can't see how a PVE server would work with the design and economy of EVE), I think that even if there is a discrepancy in the content cadence put out for the two playstyles, it can bring something to the table (like in GW2's WvW) and provide fun for some players.

    Plus maybe they can find content that is useful for both crowds (too optimistic, I know).

    I would just be skeptical if a studio the size of Artificial Core can pull it off, when a studio the size of ANet cannot do it without someone complaining.  It definitely does not make me very confident that they "ask their players", unless it is a PR trick and they already decided what they want to do. I would wait and see what content the game has to offer before making up my mind, both as a PVPer and as a PVEer.
    KyleranUngoodAlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    Plus from the MOP article:
    when the Corepunk team seemed to assert that all of its servers would contain world PvP, despite acknowledging that many players would not want that. Fortunately, now it seems that strong consideration is being given to PvE-only servers to those who want them.
    They have the data, maybe they found out that their target playerbase is more PVE-oriented than PVP-oriented and they want to switch their focus a la New World.
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Scorchien said:
    BruceYee said:
    100% YES add PVE servers.

    Think Albion w/ PVE only server then that game would have something for everyone.

    If you want Albion but PVE server , just play UO and stay in Trammel , Its a far superior experience in that respect anyway ..
    I remember people having the same gripes as this thread when Trammel was announced...if I also remember, it led to a mass migration to pve and the UOs biggest boom period it ever had...
    AlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    I remember people having the same gripes as this thread when Trammel was announced...if I also remember, it led to a mass migration to pve and the UOs biggest boom period it ever had...
    I thought in that case it was the PVP crowd complaining that UO will lose focus on their content, not the other way around. Here you have a PVE'er complaining that this is a bait without the intention to actually develop PVE content.
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    edited May 5
    tzervo said:
    Plus from the MOP article:
    when the Corepunk team seemed to assert that all of its servers would contain world PvP, despite acknowledging that many players would not want that. Fortunately, now it seems that strong consideration is being given to PvE-only servers to those who want them.
    They have the data, maybe they found out that their target playerbase is more PVE-oriented than PVP-oriented and they want to switch their focus a la New World.
    I think there is a difference between offering PVE servers (largely as-is) vs promising to deliver a PVE game such as New World chose to do, sacrificing the original PVP vision in the process.

    As mentioned, difficult to serve two masters and quite often even if the game starts off fairly well balanced between the two play modes it isn't very long before the PVP content begins to suffer, as evidenced by GW2, ESO and even WOW.

    I recall when DAOC opened up a couple of FFA PVP servers they took off like gangbusters but it wasn't long before they closed one and finally the other due to a lack of interest by the players along with a lack of support by the dev team.




    Post edited by Kyleran on
    tzervoAlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,668
    PvE, PvP or both I can't stand the top down view for MMOs. That makes this a non-starter for me right there.

    It's fine for me in ARPGs and turn-based CRPGs so I'm not sure why I find it such a turn off when MMOs do this, but I do... so sue me :)
    UngoodAlBQuirky
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 5
    Iselin said:
    PvE, PvP or both I can't stand the top down view for MMOs. That makes this a non-starter for me right there.

    It's fine for me in ARPGs and turn-based CRPGs so I'm not sure why I find it such a turn off when MMOs do this, but I do... so sue me :)
    Understandable. I don't think any MMO has nailed top-down combat yet. Not for me either at least, with the exception of Foxhole, which is a completely different type of game. I love that specific control scheme (click to move) in LoL and I prefer it over WASD. In Albion the combat was ... ok but not really good. I am waiting to see how Corepunk's combat will be, although the videos show that it will also be slow and nothing to write home about. ARPG's are to my understanding (like LoL) faster and the skills are more interesting. Turn-based, there is no game that stands out.
    AlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,668
    tzervo said:
     Turn-based, there is no game that stands out.
    Quite a few actually. The original Baldur's Gate and quite a few good games it spawned (Neverwinter, Wasteland. Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Xcom, etc.) Top down / Isometric is their standard PoV.
    tzervoAlBQuirky
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,304
    edited May 5
    Iselin said:
    tzervo said:
     Turn-based, there is no game that stands out.
    Quite a few actually. The original Baldur's Gate and quite a few good games it spawned (Neverwinter, Wasteland. Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Xcom, etc.) Top down / Isometric is their standard PoV.
    I meant MMOs, my bad, wasn't clear. :)
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