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The future of mmos is rental servers.

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  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 621
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.

    Very simple... landmass problem, you're going to need a HUGE landmass to accomodate hundreds of players. And clutter, players will focus at the "best" spots and ruin the landscape, as seen in UO like 20 years ago.

    Also, if there's PvP interaction with housing, you will have asshats going out of their way to ruin other player's property.
    To be fair, they said "Instance Based" which means that it would not be competitive for ideal spots, nor could someone else screw with your little home instance.

    Trove does this with Club Worlds.
    Crowfall does something like this with Eternal Kingdoms.

    So, I am really at a loss as to why MMO's, can't be this good.
    @Ungood ;

    I think you misread Rungar, he's saying that the instanced housing in MMO's like you are talking about can not compete with the type of housing in games like Valheim. I completely agree, I have zero desire to play a game where the housing is instanced.  
    UngoodGdemami

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.

    Very simple... landmass problem, you're going to need a HUGE landmass to accomodate hundreds of players. And clutter, players will focus at the "best" spots and ruin the landscape, as seen in UO like 20 years ago.

    Also, if there's PvP interaction with housing, you will have asshats going out of their way to ruin other player's property.
    To be fair, they said "Instance Based" which means that it would not be competitive for ideal spots, nor could someone else screw with your little home instance.

    Trove does this with Club Worlds.
    Crowfall does something like this with Eternal Kingdoms.

    So, I am really at a loss as to why MMO's, can't be this good.
    I think you misread Rungar, he's saying that the instanced housing in MMO's like you are talking about can not compete with the type of housing in games like Valheim. I completely agree, I have zero desire to play a game where the housing is instanced.  
    To be fair, the instance housing in most MMO's is not that good, so you can understand my confusion.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 9,206
    edited May 4
    The future of new MMOs is dead....emu is what we got.



    Though I do happen to like FFXIV story, I can see how some people hate story if they can't be bothered to care about the lore of the world they play in.

    With that said SWG Pre-cu might have been up his alley with what he wants, but it sounds like it was before his time. xD
    Gdemami
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,277
    edited May 5
    Scot said:
    Torval said:



    So in short rental services are about playing with people I enjoy gaming with in an environment that suits us without all the riff-raff.
    This is an excellent TLDR for why smaller scope rental servers are vastly superior IMO. Well said.
    TLDR: Its all about the riff-raff. :)

    The TL;DR is I just want to play with my friends. I don't care if others want to play with strangers for whatever reasons they have. I'm not arguing against that. That particular aspect doesn't interest me very much at the moment. I can play an MMO but it isn't what draws me to the game.

    I just spent a couple months playing ESO and WoW. I didn't play them because they're MMOs. I played them because my friends were playing and I wanted to game with them.

    The new game Sword of Legends Online looks a little interesting to me, but I'm not going to play it unless some of my friends do as well. I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but it's where I'm at.

    So, while I don't necessary think THE future is private servers, I think it will continue to be a growing popular option.
    Jean-Luc_PicardYashaX
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,689
    Tiller said:
    The future of new MMOs is dead....emu is what we got.



    Though I do happen to like FFXIV story, I can see how some people hate story if they can't be bothered to care about the lore of the world they play in.

    With that said SWG Pre-cu might have been up his alley with what he wants, but it sounds like it was before his time. xD

    The thing is, listening to his opinion, it seems that he mostly values the affect that other players have on not only the game world but "other players."

    And sadly, the greatest strength of mmorpg's, other players, is also their greatest weakness.

    There are too many players who like to mess with other players for shits and giggles and no one with any sense of self esteem is going to sign in and endure that nonsense. Let alone pay for it.

    mmorpg's worked in the early years because it was a smaller group of geek players who were reveling in the idea that they could all meet with like minded people and really form a community.

    Of course there were the players who wanted to mess with everyone but it seems that they were a minority. Now it's just large amounts of selfish, poisonous players along with well meaning players who just want to have a positive game play experience.

    So that brings us here where developers create content for a lot of soloists or small groups that you the player can pick.

    I"m not really sure they are wrong when all is said and done and that's disappointing.


    TorvalTillerMendelYashaXUngood
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,447
    AAAMEOW said:
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  

    It's called minecraft, and it is very popular.

    I'm actually confused why OP can't play whatever he enjoy now.  

    My guess is OP want to play whatever he is playing now, just be more grand?



    Not even close honestly. Not sure why in MMORPG crowd new ideas are always followed by someone play something else. Then folks turn around and complain about WoW standard for the last 17 years.
    People probably tried, like more realistic version of minecraft or EQ next.  

    The OP could go to survival game forum and asking the developer to make their game bigger.  Which I assume that is what the OP is asking.  But who is making it?

    Everything just sound good on paper.  But who is making it?  Not to mention you probably need a game engine which is capable of procedurally generated content for it to even start.  

    If something is never made before, it is probably not that easy to make IMO.  


  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,447
    edited May 5
    Rungar said:
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  


    SWG actually used procedural generation for the planetary surfaces, thats the only reason why the game achieved such large landmasses. Cities and POIs were still handcrafted ofc. The majority of quests were also procedurally generated, it was only the rebel and empire themeparks, plus a handful of other quests, that were manually created.


    So yeh, it can definitely be achieved, and was achieved (in a basic state compared to today's possibilities) 17 year ago.




    Valheim is pretty good at procedural generation. I feel when you have your procedural generation right, you dont actually need quests because you will generate your own naturally. Basebuilding is like the ultimate quest in this regard. 

    Modern quests are terrible anyway and I would much rather find a scrap of parchment telling you only the existence of something rather than be led by the nose to it. 
    But you dont' want to play suvival game, nor mmorpg.  You want to play cross breed?

    What's so different from your cross breed to the current suvival game or mmorpg.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,731
    edited May 5
    Biggest bone-head-idea yet !

    This says it all,
    So you use the word "rental" as in a person or individual is paying for it.



    Putting your faith in ONE person for months and years... This flat out voids this idea. 

    Their are many problems associated with mmorpgs..... servers are not one of them.

    People leave games, populations drop.... Rental servers would make it much worst by splitting the communities from the start.  


    Important :
    Rental servers amplifies this problem 10-fold. Now your not only splitting the servers, but creating more replicas of the game.  Run by <quote> crack heads.





    I remember early World of Warcraft..... everyone and their brother created Guilds, splitting the community deeper and deeper. 





    From reading ALL responses above, it seems most agree this is a bad idea, yet this topic goes on and on.
    ScotChampieMendelUngoodBrainyArglebargle
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,058
    edited May 5
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    Torval said:



    So in short rental services are about playing with people I enjoy gaming with in an environment that suits us without all the riff-raff.
    This is an excellent TLDR for why smaller scope rental servers are vastly superior IMO. Well said.
    TLDR: Its all about the riff-raff. :)

    The TL;DR is I just want to play with my friends. I don't care if others want to play with strangers for whatever reasons they have. I'm not arguing against that. That particular aspect doesn't interest me very much at the moment. I can play an MMO but it isn't what draws me to the game.

    I just spent a couple months playing ESO and WoW. I didn't play them because they're MMOs. I played them because my friends were playing and I wanted to game with them.

    The new game Sword of Legends Online looks a little interesting to me, but I'm not going to play it unless some of my friends do as well. I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but it's where I'm at.

    So, while I don't necessary think THE future is private servers, I think it will continue to be a growing popular option.
    I was winding you up, the riff-raff concern me, in fact I think I have used that term before when talking about the way in a MMO where you have B2P or sub it keeps FTP types out.

    Whereas I do see MMOs as worlds where we should meet and engage through gameplay and conversation with people we don't know. I am not suggesting that should be the thrust of gameplay just a significant element. I will only now play a MMO in a guild, it does not have to be one I have old friends in but that surely helps. In fact a guild is a good way of meeting people outside the guild, they vouch for people and you connect easily that way. I do realise that there is a contradiction here the guilds are themselves bubbles, in some ways this is our "server". But the guilds want to interact with outsiders, they don't want to be a closed system.

    To me forming small server gaming bubbles hinders that vision, but I too see it as something that may well become increasingly popular.
    Ungood
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,058
    Delete, just because we think it is a bad idea does not mean it will go away. Either with posters on here or in the gaming world, we just have to keep speaking out when it keeps coming back. Also no one is a bone head, they have a right to espouse their views without being called names. But I agree with you this is counterproductive to what a MMORPG should stand for.
    delete5230ChampieMendellaxieJean-Luc_Picard
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people being more selective as to who they want to play with. 

    if anything it will be good for the genre that advertises massive multiplayer but designs mostly solo experiences.
    Jean-Luc_Picard
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,447
    Rungar said:
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people being more selective as to who they want to play with. 

    if anything it will be good for the genre that advertises massive multiplayer but designs mostly solo experiences.

    Don't you already get what you want from survival game?  So what's the problem?


    SensaiBrainy
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,756
    AAAMEOW said:
    Rungar said:
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people being more selective as to who they want to play with. 

    if anything it will be good for the genre that advertises massive multiplayer but designs mostly solo experiences.

    Don't you already get what you want from survival game?  So what's the problem?



    Maybe they also want that from RPGs.... back then there were games like Neverwinter Nights, but it's a bit lost at the moment.
    Mendel
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
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  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,480
    AAAMEOW said:
    Rungar said:
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people being more selective as to who they want to play with. 

    if anything it will be good for the genre that advertises massive multiplayer but designs mostly solo experiences.

    Don't you already get what you want from survival game?  So what's the problem?



    Maybe they also want that from RPGs.... back then there were games like Neverwinter Nights, but it's a bit lost at the moment.

    Neverwinter NIghts is still around.  It does seem far more like what the OP would like.  I think he's on a personal mission to change every game into a game he likes, rather than being a bit more selective.  I guess we're all guilty of that to some degree.



    ScotSensaiJean-Luc_Picard

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,756
    edited May 5
    Mendel said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Rungar said:
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people being more selective as to who they want to play with. 

    if anything it will be good for the genre that advertises massive multiplayer but designs mostly solo experiences.

    Don't you already get what you want from survival game?  So what's the problem?



    Maybe they also want that from RPGs.... back then there were games like Neverwinter Nights, but it's a bit lost at the moment.

    Neverwinter NIghts is still around.  It does seem far more like what the OP would like.  I think he's on a personal mission to change every game into a game he likes, rather than being a bit more selective.  I guess we're all guilty of that to some degree.




    I don't think he is on such a crusade. He's just disapointed in what MMORPGs are right now, and despite the "big oldies" still going very strong (WoW, ESO, GW2, etc...), we don't really get anything new recently, at least with a decent quality, so he thinks something different would work... maybe without realizing it already exists but it's NOT MMORPGs.
    MendelUngoodYashaXGdemami
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Scot said:
    Delete, just because we think it is a bad idea does not mean it will go away.
    Yah.. Like Loot Boxes.. shit idea tat won't flush.
    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 2,110
    It shocks me how many people are so vehemently against this, some to the point of seeming almost offended at the idea. I guess it shouldn't surprise me though, the MMORPG community is pretty opposed to change, which is why the genre has stagnated and died.

    The truth is, there isn't much of a future for MMOs, and only a few diehards are left to really lament the passing of massive multiplayer worlds. The rest of us are ready to move on and are looking for smaller multiplayer experiences that scratch the same itch.
    GdemamiTorval
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,829
    edited May 6
    Stizzled said:
    It shocks me how many people are so vehemently against this, some to the point of seeming almost offended at the idea. I guess it shouldn't surprise me though, the MMORPG community is pretty opposed to change, which is why the genre has stagnated and died.

    The truth is, there isn't much of a future for MMOs, and only a few diehards are left to really lament the passing of massive multiplayer worlds. The rest of us are ready to move on and are looking for smaller multiplayer experiences that scratch the same itch.
    The future of MMOs may be to slowly wither away and die. It's sad, but if it happens it happens.

    I'm surprised by some people's need to pretend that MMOs are turning into smaller multiplayer experiences. They're not. Those are different genres that may be better enough to marginalize and mostly replace MMOs.
    Gdemami
     
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,277
    edited May 6
    Vrika said:
    Stizzled said:
    It shocks me how many people are so vehemently against this, some to the point of seeming almost offended at the idea. I guess it shouldn't surprise me though, the MMORPG community is pretty opposed to change, which is why the genre has stagnated and died.

    The truth is, there isn't much of a future for MMOs, and only a few diehards are left to really lament the passing of massive multiplayer worlds. The rest of us are ready to move on and are looking for smaller multiplayer experiences that scratch the same itch.
    The future of MMOs may be to slowly wither away and die. It's sad, but if it happens it happens.

    I'm surprised by some people's need to pretend that MMOs are turning into smaller multiplayer experiences. They're not. Those are different genres that may be better enough to marginalize and mostly replace MMOs.
    Weird attempt to correct them on your part. Is there a singular "MMO" genre? RPGs, shooters, story games... those are genres. MMO pretty much speaks only to the degree of multiplayer concurrency.

    I don't really agree there isn't a future for massively multiplayer games. I do agree with Stizzled that a lot of posters in this thread got oddly defensive about mmo-alikes, rental, and self-hosted servers. it's like the mmo defenders think preventing other options will keep everyone else in the MMO pool. If that's their line of thinking then I think they're in for a surprise. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Well as someone who played on Ark and Conan Exiles on private servers that people rented...

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server.

    Point number one is vastly skipped over for that one guy just stopping the rental and *poof* goodbye server.

    Making @cheyane have an even more pertinent point.

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,058
    edited May 6
    Mendel said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Rungar said:
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people being more selective as to who they want to play with. 

    if anything it will be good for the genre that advertises massive multiplayer but designs mostly solo experiences.

    Don't you already get what you want from survival game?  So what's the problem?



    Maybe they also want that from RPGs.... back then there were games like Neverwinter Nights, but it's a bit lost at the moment.

    Neverwinter NIghts is still around.  It does seem far more like what the OP would like.  I think he's on a personal mission to change every game into a game he likes, rather than being a bit more selective.  I guess we're all guilty of that to some degree.




    I don't think he is on such a crusade. He's just disapointed in what MMORPGs are right now, and despite the "big oldies" still going very strong (WoW, ESO, GW2, etc...), we don't really get anything new recently, at least with a decent quality, so he thinks something different would work... maybe without realizing it already exists but it's NOT MMORPGs.
    Truth be told we are all on something of a crusade, but I welcome new ideas as the genre has become rather stagnant. Roughly my own crusade is for a DAOC PvP setup with the PvE story of TSW and a hybrid mix of old and new school gameplay. But I realise this may not be feasible to build and even then it may not have the appeal I think it would have. Modding and building are two possible extra "must haves".

    So when new posters come on with some interesting ideas I think we need to look at a them, some of Rungar's thinking in other areas is closer to mine, just not here.
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    edited May 6
    Nilden said:
    Well as someone who played on Ark and Conan Exiles on private servers that people rented...

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server.

    Point number one is vastly skipped over for that one guy just stopping the rental and *poof* goodbye server.

    Making @cheyane have an even more pertinent point.
    This problem will be resolved with the platform (i.e steam) provided servers because the server wont go poof. It will just be deactivated until its paid for by another player or group of players. So the server isnt just yours but everyone who plays on it, as anyone can pay for it.

    beyond that there is nothing to say that the server being stopped is the end of your character either. 

    so no different than any mmo really. 
    UngoodGdemami
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    edited May 6
    Rungar said:
    Nilden said:
    Well as someone who played on Ark and Conan Exiles on private servers that people rented...

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server.

    Point number one is vastly skipped over for that one guy just stopping the rental and *poof* goodbye server.

    Making @cheyane have an even more pertinent point.
    This problem will be resolved with the platform (i.e steam) provided servers because the server wont go poof. It will just be deactivated until its paid for by another player or group of players. So the server isnt just yours but everyone who plays on it, as anyone can pay for it.

    beyond that there is nothing to say that the server being stopped is the end of your character either. 

    so no different than any mmo really. 
    LOL, DDO, a few years back, set it up so that if the Guild Leader was absent for over 90 days, any officer could take over the leadership.

    You would have been amazed at how many people who where guild leaders that lost their shit about this, and made a huge fuss that they would have to kick all their officers if they had the risk they would not be able to play the game.

    I cannot imagine what kind of pitiful shitstorm the idea of losing rulership of a server would cause these people if they didn't keep up their monthly payments.

    But I would be inclined to want to see it.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,771
    "The future of mmos is rental servers."

    NO IT'S NOT!!!!

    Just play SWG:L

    ...WAIT WHAT lmao :)
    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

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  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    Nilden said:
    Well as someone who played on Ark and Conan Exiles on private servers that people rented...

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server.

    Point number one is vastly skipped over for that one guy just stopping the rental and *poof* goodbye server.

    Making @cheyane have an even more pertinent point.
    This problem will be resolved with the platform (i.e steam) provided servers because the server wont go poof. It will just be deactivated until its paid for by another player or group of players. So the server isnt just yours but everyone who plays on it, as anyone can pay for it.

    beyond that there is nothing to say that the server being stopped is the end of your character either. 

    so no different than any mmo really. 
    LOL, DDO, a few years back, set it up so that if the Guild Leader was absent for over 90 days, any officer could take over the leadership.

    You would have been amazed at how many people who where guild leaders that lost their shit about this, and made a huge fuss that they would have to kick all their officers if they had the risk they would not be able to play the game.

    I cannot imagine what kind of pitiful shitstorm the idea of losing rulership of a server would cause these people if they didn't keep up their monthly payments.

    But I would be inclined to want to see it.
    who is to say that you paying for it gives you anything more than the other players? 
    .33 of a second to midnight
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