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The future of mmos is rental servers.

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  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    The elephant in the room is that the games cannot offer what a large number of people want. This is why survival/building games are popular and mmos diminish. They failed to deliver the content.
    GdemamiChampiealkarionlogRexKushman
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,447
    Rungar said:
    The elephant in the room is that the games cannot offer what a large number of people want. This is why survival/building games are popular and mmos diminish. They failed to deliver the content.

    I don't think either survival games or mmorpg are popular base on the steam chart.

    But that probably show survival/building game is the way to go.  No point trying to make and keep updating a mmorpg if it going to die in a short period.  


  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    edited May 4
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    SensaiChampieGdemami
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    ScotlaxieNilden
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,058
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    If a MMO and modders could be brought together outside of the likes of Minecraft we could have that.
    UngoodGdemami
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    I'm betting one will come along that will. 

    However saying the future of MMO's is rental servers is like saying the future of MMO's is less than 100 players.
    MendelUngood

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • ILLISETILLISET Member UncommonPosts: 113
    edited May 4
    I feel like you're guess that rental servers are the future of mmos is never going to happen with real mmorpgs.
    RungarChampieNilden
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,480
    Nilden said:
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    I'm betting one will come along that will. 

    However saying the future of MMO's is rental servers is like saying the future of MMO's is less than 100 players.

    At which point it ceases to have anything to do with 'Massively'.  So, we're talking about a different category of game.



    SensaiNildenGdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    I wish they would. Do I see it happening? Not so sure. 

     
    UngoodChampie
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Scot said:
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    If a MMO and modders could be brought together outside of the likes of Minecraft we could have that.
    Trove does this, to an extent, you need to submit your design and they need to approve it for in-game use.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    My general feeling is that in order to scale up number of players you have to scale down features. 

    Thus somewhere in the middle someone will find the answer.  aka the medium massive online game. 
    ChampieGdemamiILLISET
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,689
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.
    I think the real elephant in the room is understanding how these games talk to each other and the player.

    every item, every position has to not only be relayed to the server but related to the player. Now add combat to that, projectiles, various attacks and then add player made buildings that can be affected by other players and it seems that is why there is a limit on these types of servers.

    The Valheim devs addressed this when some player asked them to increase the server capacities.

    If memory serves.


    Ungoodlaxie
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,933
    One of the most important things about servers is the data backup.

    When I recently went back to playing EQ2 I had characters from 2004 when the game launched. The impressive thing is those characters all had houses with items in them. They also had house slots that had bags and items in them. Bank slots and your inventory with items in them and of course I cannot recall every item but my lord everything I recall I had was there and then some. All the quests were there too on my quest log.

    Items I had placed on the broker I mean hundreds of things were all there. Think about that, this is 2021. They preserved everything I had done then. 17 years they kept my shit.

    If private servers can give us this may be it is worth considering but I doubt very much I can trust some crackhead who loses his temper and decides to shut things down because he gets mad at something. This has happened before in WoW servers. So no thanks.


    ChampielaxieUngoodJean-Luc_PicardSovrathScotMendelNilden
    Chamber of Chains
  • ChampieChampie Member UncommonPosts: 14
    How is one to ask an OP to stop responding to a thread with a terrible idea without getting a warning for not being nice enough?
    delete5230
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,277
    cheyane said:
    One of the most important things about servers is the data backup.

    When I recently went back to playing EQ2 I had characters from 2004 when the game launched. The impressive thing is those characters all had houses with items in them. They also had house slots that had bags and items in them. Bank slots and your inventory with items in them and of course I cannot recall every item but my lord everything I recall I had was there and then some. All the quests were there too on my quest log.

    Items I had placed on the broker I mean hundreds of things were all there. Think about that, this is 2021. They preserved everything I had done then. 17 years they kept my shit.

    If private servers can give us this may be it is worth considering but I doubt very much I can trust some crackhead who loses his temper and decides to shut things down because he gets mad at something. This has happened before in WoW servers. So no thanks.



    Every reputable hosting provider right now provides backups, saves, and entire world setups that can be downloaded locally.

    I wouldn't play on some strangers server for the same reason I'm not longer interested in playing in an MMO with strangers. I don't see the point anymore. Many of those people cheat, buy gold, by raid slots and looting rights (a rampant problem in EQ2), and powerlevling services.

    Private servers would be for my friends and acquaintances interested in playing together. They could also serve large guilds who like to run their own events. Those are actual communities to me.

    Most MMOs aren't even real MMOs anymore. They're zoned, layered, instanced, phased, and culled limited concurrency servers that trick people into feeling like it's an MMO. They're like MMO placebos. That's fine and all but they don't really offer me anything over the MMO-alikes.

    So in short rental services are about playing with people I enjoy gaming with in an environment that suits us without all the riff-raff.
    RungarcheyaneRexKushman
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    Champie said:
    How is one to ask an OP to stop responding to a thread with a terrible idea without getting a warning for not being nice enough?
    This kinda sucks for me too, because i wanted to hear it in all its glory.  


    Champie
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,756
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.

    Very simple... landmass problem, you're going to need a HUGE landmass to accomodate hundreds of players. And clutter, players will focus at the "best" spots and ruin the landscape, as seen in UO like 20 years ago.

    Also, if there's PvP interaction with housing, you will have asshats going out of their way to ruin other player's property.
    RungarGdemamiUngood
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
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  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 621
    Torval said:



    So in short rental services are about playing with people I enjoy gaming with in an environment that suits us without all the riff-raff.
    This is an excellent TLDR for why smaller scope rental servers are vastly superior IMO. Well said.
    RungarGdemamiTorval

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,154
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  

    RungarGdemami
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,058
    Torval said:



    So in short rental services are about playing with people I enjoy gaming with in an environment that suits us without all the riff-raff.
    This is an excellent TLDR for why smaller scope rental servers are vastly superior IMO. Well said.
    TLDR: Its all about the riff-raff. :)
    Mendellaxie
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,447
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  

    It's called minecraft, and it is very popular.

    I'm actually confused why OP can't play whatever he enjoy now.  

    My guess is OP want to play whatever he is playing now, just be more grand?


  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,154
    AAAMEOW said:
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  

    It's called minecraft, and it is very popular.

    I'm actually confused why OP can't play whatever he enjoy now.  

    My guess is OP want to play whatever he is playing now, just be more grand?



    Not even close honestly. Not sure why in MMORPG crowd new ideas are always followed by someone play something else. Then folks turn around and complain about WoW standard for the last 17 years.
    Gdemami
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Ungood said:
    Rungar said:
    The new games offer things like this:

    MMO's cannot compete with the instanced housing im allowed to "buy" and decorate or slightly modify. So somewhere in the middle of the Massive online and multiplayer is the medium massive online that someone mentioned. Thus the future is smaller population per world but bigger and better featured games where you can play with a large number of friends or on public servers if you prefer.
    Why Can't MMO's compete with this?

    I guess that is the real elephant in the room.

    Very simple... landmass problem, you're going to need a HUGE landmass to accomodate hundreds of players. And clutter, players will focus at the "best" spots and ruin the landscape, as seen in UO like 20 years ago.

    Also, if there's PvP interaction with housing, you will have asshats going out of their way to ruin other player's property.
    To be fair, they said "Instance Based" which means that it would not be competitive for ideal spots, nor could someone else screw with your little home instance.

    Trove does this with Club Worlds.
    Crowfall does something like this with Eternal Kingdoms.

    So, I am really at a loss as to why MMO's, can't be this good.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,951
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  


    SWG actually used procedural generation for the planetary surfaces, thats the only reason why the game achieved such large landmasses. Cities and POIs were still handcrafted ofc. The majority of quests were also procedurally generated, it was only the rebel and empire themeparks, plus a handful of other quests, that were manually created.


    So yeh, it can definitely be achieved, and was achieved (in a basic state compared to today's possibilities) 17 year ago.




  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 478
    I have thought this for a while.  Make a MMORPG based around allowing players creating their own classes and content, worlds and etc.  To me things like this would greatly benefit from advanced procedural content as well.  One way to have avoid having to set up a ton of quest.  You just setup the narrative and rules to your spawning, quest and etc.  Procedurally generate the rest. 

    MMORPG just beg to the procedurally generated.  


    SWG actually used procedural generation for the planetary surfaces, thats the only reason why the game achieved such large landmasses. Cities and POIs were still handcrafted ofc. The majority of quests were also procedurally generated, it was only the rebel and empire themeparks, plus a handful of other quests, that were manually created.


    So yeh, it can definitely be achieved, and was achieved (in a basic state compared to today's possibilities) 17 year ago.




    Valheim is pretty good at procedural generation. I feel when you have your procedural generation right, you dont actually need quests because you will generate your own naturally. Basebuilding is like the ultimate quest in this regard. 

    Modern quests are terrible anyway and I would much rather find a scrap of parchment telling you only the existence of something rather than be led by the nose to it. 
    GdemamiVermillion_Raventhal
    .33 of a second to midnight
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