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The transparency of the Camelot Unchained developers

13

Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,978
    Interesting.  I see that March 2019.  So they LOST $900k in refunds since then?

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

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    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    OK you will probably laugh but thats the first time I actually used the "wayback Machine" and it's freaking awesome! Thanks for sharing.

    Now my question.  Unless I am doing something wrong (certainly possible) I think I see very different numbers or at least ones that paint a very different story.

    Here is Oct 2016



    Here is Oct 2020:



    Edit:

    The number today is:$4,403,844
    So since 2016... basically a little under $150k (total)  or 30k per year (zero last 2 years).  That kind of aligns with what I thought, so maybe I'm just doing some selective searching but it really does reflect my understanding that once they were late they stopped trying to sell overtly.


    Can't believe after all this time, THIS is the first time you've ever used the wayback machine. You've basically been harbingering w/ 1 hand tied behind your back.
    francis_baud[Deleted User]
    --------------------------------------------
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,978



    Can't believe after all this time, THIS is the first time you've ever used the wayback machine. You've basically been harbingering w/ 1 hand tied behind your back.
    I know right?  This is like... finding the internet and Google for the first time :)
    WellspringKyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited April 2021
    I've checked over the years how the crowdfunding looked like and it resembles to this:

    mid 2013: $2,233,000
    early 2014: $2,487,000
    mid 2014: $2,680,000
    early 2015: $2,995,000
    mid 2015: $3,459,000
    early 2016: $3,799,000
    mid 2016: $4,127,000
    early 2017: $4,387,000
    mid 2017: $4,393,000
    early 2018: $4,424,000
    mid 2018: $4,899,000
    early 2019: $5,267,000
    mid 2019: $4,764,000
    early 2020: $4,588,000
    mid 2020: $4,414,000
    early 2021: $4,397,000

    So 2018 was apparently the most profitable year (excluding the KS year).
    [Deleted User]
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,978
    But they lost over a million dollars in refunds?   That is FAR more than 2% of backers...

    KyleranNilden

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited April 2021
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited April 2021
    Well HOW could he actively market something that does not resemble an actual game anyone wants to play?Just market the IDEA,to who,investors NEED to see something and from day 1 all i saw of this game was laughable,i wouldn't invest one penny.
    Then what he is trying to sell now might be an idea from his new investors or old investors new money is still another dumb idea of a game I couldn't care less about.

    Epic fully invested into FN because the idea of BR was already a proven success and the same goes for Valorant,just another game piggy backing off of success.Who in their right mind is going to invest in what Mr.Jacobs is selling?
    Know what i got from this venture from day 1,a guy trying to cash in on the PAST,DAOC and NOT on what is incoming.

    I would be SHOCKED if more than a couple hundred people buy into his new idea,imo it will not make any money and neither will his game.He is simply riding this for as long as he can because it pays the bills,it's a job.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    Wizardry said:
    Well HOW could he actively market something that does not resemble an actual game anyone wants to play?
    He could do it the Star Citizen way and sell strongholds, cosmetics, mounts, etc. but he decided not to.


    Wizardry said:
    Know what i got from this venture from day 1,a guy trying to cash in on the PAST,DAOC and NOT on what is incoming.

    Although I believe CSE did indeed use DAoC nostalgia in their initial pitch (3 realms, Arthurian legends, "Camelot", ex-Mythic developers, etc.), they did also present a whole lot of innovative ideas like giant-scale battles, block-by-block destruction, server-side physics, a complex RvR dungeon, ability creator, A.I.R. system, etc.

    So it would be inaccurate IMO to claim they've generally "cash[ed] in on the past, DAoC and not on what is incoming."

    [Deleted User]Kyleran
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited April 2021
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    Nilden
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    francis_baudGdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098

    So 2018 was apparently the most profitable year (excluding the KS year).
    That was the year they launched the "beta".
    francis_baud
    ....
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited April 2021
    YashaX said:

    So 2018 was apparently the most profitable year (excluding the KS year).
    That was the year they launched the "beta".
    Yea that makes sense, and they achieved it (the most crowdfunded year) with an almost inexistent marketing budget.
    Post edited by francis_baud on
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,486
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    Err, maybe.  Be even better if Mark would actually catch up on the outstanding refund requests which continue to fall further behind.

    From a recent post in the reddit refund thread on it appears Mark is now 14 months behind and counting.

    You wouldn't think it would be that hard to clear just 2% of the total pledges even on the part time basis Mark is putting into it.




    [Deleted User]NildenGdemami

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,978
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    Err, maybe.  Be even better if Mark would actually catch up on the outstanding refund requests which continue to fall further behind.

    From a recent post in the reddit refund thread on it appears Mark is now 14 months behind and counting.

    You wouldn't think it would be that hard to clear just 2% of the total pledges even on the part time basis Mark is putting into it.




    Based on the numbers it appears we are talking about 25%  not 2%

    NildenGdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    Err, maybe.  Be even better if Mark would actually catch up on the outstanding refund requests which continue to fall further behind.

    From a recent post in the reddit refund thread on it appears Mark is now 14 months behind and counting.

    You wouldn't think it would be that hard to clear just 2% of the total pledges even on the part time basis Mark is putting into it.

    Mark has said on MOP that he would go in the office finish processing the refund requests as soon as he's fully vaccinated. I don't know how far the vaccination campaign is in his state but I guess it shouldn't take so long before it happens. 
    [Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,486
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    Err, maybe.  Be even better if Mark would actually catch up on the outstanding refund requests which continue to fall further behind.

    From a recent post in the reddit refund thread on it appears Mark is now 14 months behind and counting.

    You wouldn't think it would be that hard to clear just 2% of the total pledges even on the part time basis Mark is putting into it.

    Mark has said on MOP that he would go in the office finish processing the refund requests as soon as he's fully vaccinated. I don't know how far the vaccination campaign is in his state but I guess it shouldn't take so long before it happens. 
    My sister lives in same state, is of similar age and she's long since vaccinated.

    No real reason why he isn't, here in Florida it's totally open, my son beat me as I got the two dose version while he got the single shot one.
    francis_baud[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited April 2021
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    Err, maybe.  Be even better if Mark would actually catch up on the outstanding refund requests which continue to fall further behind.

    From a recent post in the reddit refund thread on it appears Mark is now 14 months behind and counting.

    You wouldn't think it would be that hard to clear just 2% of the total pledges even on the part time basis Mark is putting into it.

    Mark has said on MOP that he would go in the office finish processing the refund requests as soon as he's fully vaccinated. I don't know how far the vaccination campaign is in his state but I guess it shouldn't take so long before it happens. 
    My sister lives in same state, is of similar age and she's long since vaccinated.

    No real reason why he isn't, here in Florida it's totally open, my son beat me as I got the two dose version while he got the single shot one.
    I see. Maybe his wife and him have received the first dose and are waiting for the second, I don't know. Here (not in the US) from what I've heard of the people who got their first dose, the appointment for the second dose is only in June or July. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,486
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Well the 2% was for those "pending" and requested "since Feb 1st" so the ones that had already been processed at the time (September 2020) may not count I believe.
    Well it's not like anyone was going to come out and say they lost a million dollars in refunds.
    I think it shows how committed this studio is to fulfill their promises, even if it heavily impacts on Mark's wallet (+5 millions of his own money, and a lot more from a family member).

    Also I'm pretty sure that most of the ex-backers will be back when CSE launches their game. No other titles offers this kind of epic, massive RvR experience CU will offer. I think it's just a question of time (and funding).


    I think it's great that they offer refunds.
    Err, maybe.  Be even better if Mark would actually catch up on the outstanding refund requests which continue to fall further behind.

    From a recent post in the reddit refund thread on it appears Mark is now 14 months behind and counting.

    You wouldn't think it would be that hard to clear just 2% of the total pledges even on the part time basis Mark is putting into it.

    Mark has said on MOP that he would go in the office finish processing the refund requests as soon as he's fully vaccinated. I don't know how far the vaccination campaign is in his state but I guess it shouldn't take so long before it happens. 
    My sister lives in same state, is of similar age and she's long since vaccinated.

    No real reason why he isn't, here in Florida it's totally open, my son beat me as I got the two dose version while he got the single shot one.
    I see. Maybe his wife and him have received the first dose and are waiting for the second, I don't know. Here (not in the US) from what I've heard of the people who got their first dose, the appointment for the second dose is only in June or July. 
    Here they schedule the second 3 weeks after the first.  But I also know some vaccinated family members who still are wary of mingling which is fair as it's not 100% effective and there's still questions around effectiveness in variants.
    [Deleted User]francis_baud

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    I've checked over the years how the crowdfunding looked like and it resembles to this:

    mid 2013: $2,233,000
    early 2014: $2,487,000
    mid 2014: $2,680,000
    early 2015: $2,995,000
    mid 2015: $3,459,000
    early 2016: $3,799,000
    mid 2016: $4,127,000
    early 2017: $4,387,000
    mid 2017: $4,393,000
    early 2018: $4,424,000
    mid 2018: $4,899,000
    early 2019: $5,267,000
    mid 2019: $4,764,000
    early 2020: $4,588,000
    mid 2020: $4,414,000
    early 2021: $4,397,000

    So 2018 was apparently the most profitable year (excluding the KS year).
    They seriously need to hire some consultants from Starcitizen on how to raise money... very paltry $$$.
    Kyleran
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited April 2021
    They seriously need to hire some consultants from Starcitizen on how to raise money... very paltry $$$.
    He he yea they could, and it would likely bring a lot of bucks in the house... yet it's probably against MJ's values as it's akin to milking the playerbase, and he talked strongly against it. The monetization of CU (subscription but cheaper) is good imo with every player given an equal chance of competing.
    Post edited by francis_baud on
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,486
    They seriously need to hire some consultants from Starcitizen on how to raise money... very paltry $$$.
    He he yea they could, and it would likely bring a lot of bucks in the house... yet it's probably against MJ's values as it's akin to milking the playerbase, and he talked strongly against it. The monetization of CU (subscription but cheaper) is good imo with every player given an equal chance of competing.
    Considering some of the other values he's tossed out the window what's one more?

    ;)
    [Deleted User]Gdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    Kyleran said:
    They seriously need to hire some consultants from Starcitizen on how to raise money... very paltry $$$.
    He he yea they could, and it would likely bring a lot of bucks in the house... yet it's probably against MJ's values as it's akin to milking the playerbase, and he talked strongly against it. The monetization of CU (subscription but cheaper) is good imo with every player given an equal chance of competing.
    Considering some of the other values he's tossed out the window what's one more?

    ;)

    From what I know, Mark is owning up to his words. I haven't seen him tossing his values out of the window as you mention.
    Kyleran
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Mr.Jacobs aimed for a low budget crappy game build.HE might try and talk the talk later on to keep the dream alive but he still aimed for imo a crappy game.
    So in this case why woudl i even care if he is transparent,i would not play what he is selling,not even a remote chance,like he couldn't pay me to play it.

    My point is that transparency doesn't make a better game and on that note,what exactly does it do?TRUE transparency is 100% transparency of which you will NEVER get from ANY studio ever.So in essence it is the transparency THEY want you to see ..lol.

    Ok guys i want to be honest with you supoorters,i am making a different low budget game because i needed to cater to my investor.How does that help all the supporters of the originally pitched game,how does that make the game better how does that ease the minds of supporters?it has done NOTHING except actually piss off many supporters.

    If you want to keep people happy,make a good game and not good promises,DELIVER that game and not stray off course or make new promises.



    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited April 2021
    Just because SC Chris Robert's managed to pull off the scam of the century and fill his greedy little coffers with money doesn't make it right or the way to go for other studios.
    100's of millions later,how many people went from not caring about SC to now,OH MY GOD i love that game,i want to play it NOW?
    IMO Robert's is EXACTLY like Jacob's the only difference is he managed to find a nice cash cow gimmick in selling virtual ships.
    Just imagine,maybe 1-4mb of code sold for 100's of dollars while studios are trying to deliver millions of lines of code and put it all together to make a decent game.

    Crowd funding,is NOT a good idea for gaming and NEVER will be.Cash shops are not a god idea for gaming and never will be.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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