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Defendants in Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Deciding Whether to Challenge Complaint | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 7,110

imageDefendants in Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Deciding Whether to Challenge Complaint | MMORPG.com

It's been a minute since the previous update in the ongoing lawsuit regarding Chronicles of Elyria developers Soulbound Studios, Xsolla, and consumers. Just yesterday, however, an update was posted in the lawsuit's Discord channel notifying us of the next step in the process.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,710
    Dragging it out till no ones gives a shit...
    KyleranGdemami
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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,802
    edited April 8
    My hunch is that this KOE ties into this.HE likely filed KOE under a different LLC that granted full use of the COE code so he can basically shut down but continue on as KOE.So what happens is they win the suit against the LLC "Soulbound"and shuts down but nothing more comes of it,he wanted to shut down anyway.

    What i can't figure out is this Xsolla and their suit against them.If there ever was a fair competition act to be filed it would be against the giant monopolies like Amazon so i just don't see this amounting to anything.Xsolla also offers cancelations to their service so there would be no long term contract ties or anything like that.They simply get a small cut of less than $1 for each transaction a far cry from Amazon or Steam attaining a 30% cut.

    Xsolla is also no different than any other marketing firm,imo they are all scummy operating under the pretense that they MUST deceive the consumers to get them to buy or spend on said clients product.However any winning suit would send a ripple affect that would allow ALL marketing firms to be sued so i just don't see it happening. So imo a complete waste of time.
    francis_baud

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.
    xpsyncAsm0deusFTrunks21Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,876
    Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.
    UngoodxpsyncSlapshot1188Asm0deusGdemami

    25 Agrees

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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  • theGnadetheGnade Newbie CommonPosts: 8
    If they asked money for development (Early access, Crowdfunding) I hope they burn and good job those who sued them.
    UngoodxpsyncFTrunks21Gdemami
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Scot said:
    Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.
    Or you know.. make something that could have at the very least passed for a honest effort to make the game he promised.
    ScotxpsyncGdemamitzervo
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,876
    edited April 8
    theGnade said:
    If they asked money for development (Early access, Crowdfunding) I hope they burn and good job those who sued them.
    I was going to say Ungood was being to harsh there, but you take that biscuit. They deserve money back and the interest it would have earned, that would be justice. It is not abnormal in business cases to ban someone from being a company director, as a form of probation following mismanagement. I think that would also be appropriate here.
    Gdemami

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • GrindcoreTHRALLGrindcoreTHRALL Member UncommonPosts: 155
    Is there a chance we get our money back?
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,206

    Scot said:

    Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.



    I think I just found my new wallpaper
    Scot

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,533
    Is there a chance we get our money back?
    Yes assuming the suit against Xsolla prevails as they actually have the funds to pay any awards.

    Soulbound itself is probably close to broke and will likely go bankrupt in a heartbeat.

    Ungood said:
    I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.
    Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

    Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....  
    Scot

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    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,235
    He does look like he is praying in that picture, for a miracle that is.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Kyleran
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    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,437


    Is there a chance we get our money back?



    After attorneys' fees, all of the plaintiffs can look forward to a fat $1.25 check. Really though, the suit is more about holding the defendants accountable.
    KyleranGdemami
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.
    Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

    Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....  
    Given SBS was created for this sole purpose to collect money to make this game, they use present that it was nothing more than a dummy front, which, since he didn't get any actual work done, should be pretty easy to do.

    No matter what some people may think, you can't just make an LLC to scam people, and treat it like a bulletproof vest. 

    It becomes very hard to tack direct personal fraud on someone who had a legit company that did some shady thing, it's not so hard when this was the only reason for the company to exist.
    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,231

    Scot said:

    Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.



    I think I just found my new toiletpaper
    Fixed that for ya
    tzervo

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,206
    Nilden said:

    Scot said:

    Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.



    I think I just found my new toiletpaper
    Fixed that for ya
    No I've already got that but with eyes wide open.

    tzervo

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,533
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.
    Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

    Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....  
    Given SBS was created for this sole purpose to collect money to make this game, they use present that it was nothing more than a dummy front, which, since he didn't get any actual work done, should be pretty easy to do.

    No matter what some people may think, you can't just make an LLC to scam people, and treat it like a bulletproof vest. 

    It becomes very hard to tack direct personal fraud on someone who had a legit company that did some shady thing, it's not so hard when this was the only reason for the company to exist.
    From all evidence I've seen over the years there were several buildings rented, as many as 30 employee on the payroll, and we've seen some evidence of a game being built, world's being generated etc.

    None of this ended up in producing anything useful but as long as they were earnestly trying and can prove it then no fraud occurred.

    But hey, that's what the courts are for, to try and discern the truth, time will tell.


    TorvaltzervoPsycked

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member RarePosts: 754
    Getting blood from a stone... probably no real $$ left to get.   Hence, they might not even bother paying to defend the suit.

    Correct me if someone has their current balance sheet.
    Gdemami
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,398
    lahnmir said:
    He does look like he is praying in that picture, for a miracle that is.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    He'd better be in good standing with the powers that be.  It might take 3 or more miracles to clear the mess made of this 'project'.



    Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • McSleazMcSleaz Member UncommonPosts: 139


    Getting blood from a stone... probably no real $$ left to get.   Hence, they might not even bother paying to defend the suit.

    Correct me if someone has their current balance sheet.



    Read the Lawsuit. Xsolla is being sued for refusing to honor refunds amongst other things. Xsolla has piles of cash so not sure where you are getting "blood from a stone".
    Gdemami
  • moguy1moguy1 Member UncommonPosts: 125
    Clearly a lot of folks are fresh to crowd funding just like the noobs that play the stock market on a hunch. Welcome to being in the red. Buy the finished product or be ok with a wait / loss. Even if its a win in your favor you still have to collect. That IS the worst part of winning a lawsuit.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.
    Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

    Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....  
    Given SBS was created for this sole purpose to collect money to make this game, they use present that it was nothing more than a dummy front, which, since he didn't get any actual work done, should be pretty easy to do.

    No matter what some people may think, you can't just make an LLC to scam people, and treat it like a bulletproof vest. 

    It becomes very hard to tack direct personal fraud on someone who had a legit company that did some shady thing, it's not so hard when this was the only reason for the company to exist.
    From all evidence I've seen over the years there were several buildings rented, as many as 30 employee on the payroll, and we've seen some evidence of a game being built, world's being generated etc.

    None of this ended up in producing anything useful but as long as they were earnestly trying and can prove it then no fraud occurred.

    But hey, that's what the courts are for, to try and discern the truth, time will tell.


    That depends.

    Good Faith.. only covers the Kickstarter contract between the Creator and the Backers, not the contract between Xsolla and Soul Bound dealing with refunds, which is what this case is targeting.

    In short, we all should know by now that the whole plan for this legal litigation action was to drag Xsolla into the dumpster fire that is CoE, so that they would go after SBS to recoup their losses.

    Even if all that happens in a pile of legal fees, this will also destroy Walsh directly, as now he has become a danger to anyone in the industry, in short, this effectively black lists him on everyone's platform.


    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,876
    Kyleran said:
    Is there a chance we get our money back?
    Yes assuming the suit against Xsolla prevails as they actually have the funds to pay any awards.

    Soulbound itself is probably close to broke and will likely go bankrupt in a heartbeat.

    Ungood said:
    I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.
    Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

    Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....  
    Yes, when I said a fair result would be money spent returned plus interest and a temporary ban as a director, I am assuming no criminal activity like syphoning of funds. The reason I don't think that has occurred is we had ample examples of mismanagement and failure to understand what was needed to make the game or understand the player base. That would make any company run out of money.
    Kyleran

    25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,238
    If he's working on the game again then how does this lawsuit still exist? Xsolla does not have to honor their refund policy cause technically the game is being worked on again?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,206
    BruceYee said:
    If he's working on the game again then how does this lawsuit still exist? Xsolla does not have to honor their refund policy cause technically the game is being worked on again?
    Xsolla's refund policy in essence said that you could request a refund up until release.  As the game has not released.. they should refund the cash.

    tzervoBruceYee

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,533
    BruceYee said:
    If he's working on the game again then how does this lawsuit still exist? Xsolla does not have to honor their refund policy cause technically the game is being worked on again?
    The clause about continuing work only applies to the $900K he raised on Kickstarter.

    The other $7M was raised directly through Xsolla which had no such qualifier, their TOS at the time said "buyers" could request a refund at any time prior to delivery.

    It was a huge over sight on Xsolla's part which I think Jeremy's lawyers realized because all monies collected were clearly called donations with no refund after some period, 30 days I believe.

    Soulbounds TOS also included another smart proviso, which stated Xsolla's TOS superceded Soulbounds when it came to paying any refunds.

    I'm sure the court case will involve much thrashing over the meaning of words, in the EU they already declared crowd funding payments could only be called donations if they offered no specific benefits.

    So most of Soulbounds offerings were itemized with a promised return so clearly would be sales and therefore the VAT should have been collected and paid.

    My guess is Jeremy has deferred paying the VAT until the game is actually delivered so another reason he might be continuing work is to stave off any EU or US taxes which were owed 

    I recall back when SotA used to publish annual financials one of the last ones had roughly a $4M tax deferral listed, not sure how they're managing that since launching.


    Slapshot1188BrotherMaynardUngoodTorvalGdemamitzervoScot

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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