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Amazon Twitch to discipline people for offline behavior

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,181
    Torval said:
    Torval said:

    Hahaha, I was thinking about this when I read those posts. I thought, what about me who wants all business regulated from big corps (not just big tech, Amazon, or FAANG) down to the "mom and pop" corner store. I live in rural Oregon and it's much easier for me to switch e-tailers that piss me off than it is to deal with the whims of local small businesses that seemingly fly way under the legal radar.
    So if you agree about Amazon why not start there while we talk about the rest?


    No thanks. That doesn't work for me. Let's start with everyone at once. There is no reason not to.
    And that is exactly why we go nowhere. 

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,016
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
     except apparently when Amazon wants to keep domestic terrorists off Twitch because those there are fighting words!
    I think you know that is a gross oversimplification and that's the kind of bullshit that makes us never able to move forward.  By all means though lets just retreat back to our tribes and keep on the current path.
    Definitely... for emphasis. But I'm not the one cherry picking who to regulate and who to give a free ride to.
    If 2 people look at 3 items.   Both agree on 1 and disagree on the other 2.  Should we move forward with the 1 while discussing differences on the others?  Or should we just sit as we do today and insist that we do nothing unless we do everything we want?

    That's what's wrong with our politics today. Each side (and I'm not a member of EITHER to be clear) wants 100% of their wish list and will try to sabotage the other side even if that means not moving forward with stuff they agree with.  
    The way reasonable people would do it is through compromise. I spent most of my adult life negotiating contracts and negotiations are nothing if not compromise.

    Here's a deal for you: you come out in full support of regulating gambling (i.e. loot boxes) in games and I'll support regulating Amazon... deal?
    That's actually not compromise.  That's equivalent exchange.

    A compromise would be:

    Person A wants to regulate Amazon 100%

    Person B wants to regulate Amazon 0%

    Person A & B compromise and agree to regulate Amazon 50%



    Unfortunately, it gets a lot more complicated when Persons C, D, E, and Z get involved and one wants to regulate 20% while the other wants to regulate 66% etc etc.  Even worse when you consider that the amount of regulation is not restricted to a singular linear plane and thus one person might want to regulate it 33% at a 50 degree angle while the other wants to regulate it 77% at a 20 degree angle.


    As an aside, I want Amazon AND Loot Boxes to be regulated, anyways.  Although I mean that more about Amazon's corporate policies and monopolization than anything to do with their right to refuse service to whoever they want to as long as it's not a protected case (again, gender, race, etc).

    The moment the government gets the ability to force a business to serve others even if that business doesn't want to is where the real Orwellian crap comes in.  (again, protected cases being the exception).

    And it'd kinda be a moot point if the monopolization got regulated anyways because then it'd be easier to just move to other platforms if they banned you.  That's how capitalism is supposed to work.
    The problem is that the way politics usually goes is that people on the right want to move policy to the right.  People on the left want to move policy to the left.  If someone on the left proposes moving policy to the left, but not as far as they really want, that's not really a compromise, any more than moving policy to the right would be a compromise instead.

    Often the reason why nothing gets done is that there isn't any way to modify existing policy that most people think would be an improvement.  If some people think that a proposed change makes things better and others think it makes things worse, then the latter will and should oppose the proposed change.  There is as much merit to killing a bad bill as passing a good one.  Maybe more, as wild swings of policy are bad in their own right.
    UngoodGdemami
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,129
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
     I live in rural Oregon and it's much easier for me to switch e-tailers that piss me off than it is to deal with the whims of local small businesses that seemingly fly way under the legal radar.
    You now that "no shirt..." bit I've brought up several times in this thread? That wasn't just restaurants in small beach resorts that had those signs in the late '60s and early '70s.

    It was also small hardware and general good stores in many inland small towns that put those up to keep hippies out. Bunch of Merle Haggard Okie From Muskogee fans, the lot of them.

    :)

    It's funny you mention that because when I lived in the Eastside of Seattle as a teenager, those signs were everywhere in small stores and shops for the same reasons. The reference always makes me think of "Signs" by the Five Man Electrical Band and covered by Tesla in the 90s.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,129
    edited April 8
    Torval said:
    Torval said:

    Hahaha, I was thinking about this when I read those posts. I thought, what about me who wants all business regulated from big corps (not just big tech, Amazon, or FAANG) down to the "mom and pop" corner store. I live in rural Oregon and it's much easier for me to switch e-tailers that piss me off than it is to deal with the whims of local small businesses that seemingly fly way under the legal radar.
    So if you agree about Amazon why not start there while we talk about the rest?


    No thanks. That doesn't work for me. Let's start with everyone at once. There is no reason not to.
    And that is exactly why we go nowhere. 

    Because you're unwilling to apply regulation to everyone fairly? I agree. This is about you cherry-picking your inconveniences.

    I'll tell you why this doesn't work for me. Because the right has not ever played fair. They have "laws and rules for thee but not for me". If those who don't like Amazon and other tech giants, inconvenient to the Parler driven agenda, were given free reign to run amok then all change would stop there. Once the far right gets what it wants it will not keep its end of the deal. The people worried about this have been promoting misinformation for a long time and I don't trust them. "Meet me halfway" keeps getting met with moving goalposts.

    So, in short we have a trust issue and until that can be established somehow then you're right, we're at an impasse. This is why I've said repeatedly we're a nation divided and unlikely to heal through that until we deal with the misinformation campaign and system of privilege for some (the right people) while holding the "wrong people and businesses" accountable for their disagreement.
    IselinYashaXGdemami
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    This discussion reminded me of this video.


    Brainy
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,181
    What you want is 100% agreement on a wide issue instead of taking small victories where we agree.  If we agree on 1 of 3 items then moving on that item is not meeting halfway.  It’s moving forward together.  Meeting halfway is what we can do on issues 2 and 3 where there is disagreement.  You give me 2 and I’ll give you 3.  That’s compromise.  But that shouldn’t even come into play when we agree on issues.

    This is exactly why we are so polarized.  Doesn’t matter if it’s this issue, immigration, coronavirus stimulus, infrastructure.  Let’s find out what we AGREE on... execute that... and then actually negotiate the rest.  That means each side gives. 

    Far too much Us vs Them today.  We keep it up and we won’t exist as a country in a decade.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,092
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    IselinTorvalYashaXUngoodGdemami
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Thank you for the 2 cents, this was already addressed back on page 2.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,016
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Horrible censorship nearly always starts by censoring egregiously bad things that nearly everyone agrees should be censored.  The problem is that sometimes it expands and expands and expands from there until it ends up becoming a horrible problem.

    And sometimes it doesn't.  Sometimes life is lived on a slippery slope and you manage not to slide down to the bottom.  The question is how to prevent "we're going to ban terrorists" from turning into "we're going to ban anyone that a bunch of trolls happen to hate".  So far, a lot of social media companies seem to be failing at figuring out how to do the former without also doing the latter.
    Ungood
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,837
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Yeah that's a good point, the devil will be in the details of exactly how it goes about self-regulating, but it seems to me to be the bare minimum needed to start unwinding the leverage these platforms have given to some very unsavory people and ideas up till now.
    Gdemami
    ....
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    edited April 9
    YashaX said:
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Yeah that's a good point, the devil will be in the details of exactly how it goes about self-regulating, but it seems to me to be the bare minimum needed to start unwinding the leverage these platforms have given to some very unsavory people and ideas up till now.
    You realize that the only difference between a Patriot and a Terrorist, is who controls the media, right?

    Malcom X, said this very thing:

    The media can make a criminal and victim and a victim a criminal.


    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,129
    Ungood said:
    YashaX said:
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Yeah that's a good point, the devil will be in the details of exactly how it goes about self-regulating, but it seems to me to be the bare minimum needed to start unwinding the leverage these platforms have given to some very unsavory people and ideas up till now.
    You realize that the only difference between a Patriot and a Terrorist, is who controls the media, right?

    Malcom X, said this very thing:

    The media can make a criminal and victim and a victim a criminal.



    Nice rhetoric, but no, sedition is a crime. It's well defined and this is beginning to stroll way off topic. The topic is that some people fear Amazon account reprisal for participating in clearly illegal acts outside of their Twitch service and they feel Amazon doesn't have a right to choose their business partners or customers; that Amazon should be forced to provide services against their will to those they don't want to.

    Just an FYI, this is how serious the military treats sedition. It is a capital offense and is punishable by execution. Article 94 of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), section b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct." The maximum penalty for sedition or failure to suppress or stop it is death.

    Sedition is also a federal crime and treason is also punishable by death under certain circumstances. So, it has nothing to do about media rhetoric and everything to do with attempting to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority (that's the government).

    Amazon bids on defense contracts. They may not want to explain to the Pentagon why they allow seditionists on their platform and the military might overlook them if they do. Amazon may want to distance themselves from those who participate in those activities (and the other crimes listed in the news article) regardless whether those people are actually convicted, not prosecuted, or pardoned.

    This all comes down to the rights of businesses to carry out business with partners and customers of their choice. It isn't the government's place to decide those things and the US government is typically hands off about these things unless it threatens civil security, like Reagan's Air Traffic Controller fiasco in the eighties.

    CryomatrixGdemami
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,129
    Honestly, i think this removing from amazon platform is geared to the outliers and not to your average joe. 

    Companies have always been able to do this, it is just with social media you have a record of everything. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,842
    edited April 9
    I assume this is going to be after they are found guilty, if this is instead that the media is mentioning you in an article about murder or such, that would be a huge abuse. Therefore this action will be taken once a verdict in court has been reached, in which case you should be headed to jail not your tablet to play on Twitch. If this is only for former sentencing, the door is opened to what constitutes a crime?

    So I am not quite sure how it will even be implemented, but no doubt "offence creep" will happen and before you know it having too many parking tickets will warrant investigation.

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,842
    I have to say considering how political this all is posters seem (OK I admit I skimmed) to have kept their calm and should be applauded for doing so.
    Slapshot1188

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,181
    edited April 9
    Torval said:

    The topic is that some people fear Amazon account reprisal for participating in clearly illegal acts outside of their Twitch service 

    That's actually NOT the topic.   The topic is actually about a MEGACORPORATION using it's power to ban people from it's service BEFORE (and that is the key word here) they have been proven to have committed whatever act is in question. And Amazon clearly states that they expect the law enforcement agencies to give "evidence" to the company.  This alone should scare the shit out of every single person hearing it.  Also of note is this quote: “ Though Twitch will initially tackle a handful of listed serious offenses, the platform said it aims for the guidelines to be iterative”.  So yeah, they are literally saying that once they get you to agree they are going to expand.

    You want to lump them in with Mom and Pop stores, well that's your right, but I and others see a clear and distinct difference between a company who's revenue makes it greater than 80% of all COUNTRIES and the corner grocer.

    Again, we have a legal process that addresses "clearly illegal acts".  By this point we should know how dangerous it is to pre-judge.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,181
    edited April 9
    Scot said:
    I assume this is going to be after they are found guilty, if this is instead that the media is mentioning you in an article about murder or such, that would be a huge abuse. Therefore this action will be taken once a verdict in court has been reached, in which case you should be headed to jail not your tablet to play on Twitch. If this is only for former sentencing, the door is opened to what constitutes a crime?

    So I am not quite sure how it will even be implemented, but no doubt "offence creep" will happen and before you know it having too many parking tickets will warrant investigation.
    Actually it is NOT only after they are found guilty.  That is what is so concerning!
    The article says that they will investigate, expect the law enforcement authorities to share evidence with them (a private company) and will take action separate and prior to the legal process playing out.

    And the company flat out admitted that the list of allegations they investigate is just the start and they will grow it after the first wave of PR blows over.

    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    ScotGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,016
    Torval said:

    this is beginning to stroll way off topic.
    Only beginning?  Hahahaha.
    Torval
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,842
    Scot said:
    I assume this is going to be after they are found guilty, if this is instead that the media is mentioning you in an article about murder or such, that would be a huge abuse. Therefore this action will be taken once a verdict in court has been reached, in which case you should be headed to jail not your tablet to play on Twitch. If this is only for former sentencing, the door is opened to what constitutes a crime?

    So I am not quite sure how it will even be implemented, but no doubt "offence creep" will happen and before you know it having too many parking tickets will warrant investigation.
    Actually it is NOT only after they are found guilty.  That is what is so concerning!
    The article says that they will investigate, expect the law enforcement authorities to share evidence with them (a private company) and will take action separate and prior to the legal process playing out.

    And they company flat out admitted that the list of allegations they investigate is just the start and they will grow it after the first wave of PR blows over.

    Guilty before proven guilty is very concerning, but the media have set the precedence for this. If you make a court case an item for days, you are saying they are guilty without actually saying so. If every time a figure in the entertainment industry is in a news item and you mention the "controversy" about them that is saying they are guilty.

    So with broadcasters setting that standard it is easy to see how the social media side of gaming (like Twitch) will be able to get away with this. They don't have to say you are guilty they will just have concerns and ditch you.
    AngryElftzervoGdemami

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Torval said:
    Ungood said:
    YashaX said:
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Yeah that's a good point, the devil will be in the details of exactly how it goes about self-regulating, but it seems to me to be the bare minimum needed to start unwinding the leverage these platforms have given to some very unsavory people and ideas up till now.
    You realize that the only difference between a Patriot and a Terrorist, is who controls the media, right?

    Malcom X, said this very thing:

    The media can make a criminal and victim and a victim a criminal.



    Nice rhetoric, but no, sedition is a crime. It's well defined and this is beginning to stroll way off topic. The topic is that some people fear Amazon account reprisal for participating in clearly illegal acts outside of their Twitch service and they feel Amazon doesn't have a right to choose their business partners or customers; that Amazon should be forced to provide services against their will to those they don't want to.

    Nice rhetoric, but no. Sedition just means to protest against the government. That means that the charge of Sedition can be applied to anyone that disagrees with the authoritarian regime of their government, regardless of how noble the rebellion or corrupt the government. Keep that in mind as you write away your freedoms.

    Malcom X & Martin Luther King Jr who spoke against the status quo and against the government and where protesting in the streets where in fact Seditionist, So too where all the people that made that Autonomous zone in Minneapolis when they burned down police departments and government buildings, and yet.. lo and behold look who the media made a huge deal about, and who the media sided with.

    Malcom X:
    "If you are not Careful, the News will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people doing the oppressing" 

    "The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses."

    So again, the only difference between a Patriot and a Terrorist, is who controls the media.

    And Just for those people that fell asleep in history class, America was founded and formed by a bunch of Seditionist.

    What makes me laugh however, is that this could lead to utility companies like, your phone provider, cable, wi-fi, electrical provider, even things like housing (Apartment, Condo, Hotel), and all other services denying you service simply because you didn't say something that praised Dear Leader in your Facebook profile.

    Now, I fully respect different people wanting different things in life, some people like Pineapple, some hate it. Same with Liberty and Freedom, some people find liberty and freedom to not be their vibe, and thankfully there are many other nations, that can provide them all levels of the kind of regime they want to live under, and to that system, America, an entire nation built on the idea of freedom and rebellion against authority, with it's first core right being able to speak out against the government, and it's founding fathers believing that, as need be, overthrow your government, is obviously not the nation for people that feel they should live under more oppressive control.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • RungarRungar Member UncommonPosts: 175
    Censorship is all around you. This is just a more precise way of doing it. Most people self censor in fear of something they refuse to admit even exists. 


    Ungood
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,129
    Ungood said:
    Torval said:
    Ungood said:
    YashaX said:
    Shaigh said:
    During the iraqi and syrian civil wars isis used youtube to recruit westerners to join their forces. Terrorist acts and shootings have been broadcasted live on platforms. Grooming of children is a constant problem on the platforms.

    This isn't about removing your freedom, its about negating an actual problem. That's why politicians on both sides put legislation that makes tech giant liable and that's why amazon is doing this.

    its not about attacking your internet freedom, unless you happen to be a paedophile or a terrorist.
    Yeah that's a good point, the devil will be in the details of exactly how it goes about self-regulating, but it seems to me to be the bare minimum needed to start unwinding the leverage these platforms have given to some very unsavory people and ideas up till now.
    You realize that the only difference between a Patriot and a Terrorist, is who controls the media, right?

    Malcom X, said this very thing:

    The media can make a criminal and victim and a victim a criminal.



    Nice rhetoric, but no, sedition is a crime. It's well defined and this is beginning to stroll way off topic. The topic is that some people fear Amazon account reprisal for participating in clearly illegal acts outside of their Twitch service and they feel Amazon doesn't have a right to choose their business partners or customers; that Amazon should be forced to provide services against their will to those they don't want to.

    Nice rhetoric, but no. Sedition just means to protest against the government. That means that the charge of Sedition can be applied to anyone that disagrees with the authoritarian regime of their government, regardless of how noble the rebellion or corrupt the government. Keep that in mind as you write away your freedoms.

    Malcom X & Martin Luther King Jr who spoke against the status quo and against the government and where protesting in the streets where in fact Seditionist, So too where all the people that made that Autonomous zone in Minneapolis when they burned down police departments and government buildings, and yet.. lo and behold look who the media made a huge deal about, and who the media sided with.

    Malcom X:
    "If you are not Careful, the News will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people doing the oppressing" 

    "The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses."

    So again, the only difference between a Patriot and a Terrorist, is who controls the media.

    And Just for those people that fell asleep in history class, America was founded and formed by a bunch of Seditionist.

    What makes me laugh however, is that this could lead to utility companies like, your phone provider, cable, wi-fi, electrical provider, even things like housing (Apartment, Condo, Hotel), and all other services denying you service simply because you didn't say something that praised Dear Leader in your Facebook profile.

    Now, I fully respect different people wanting different things in life, some people like Pineapple, some hate it. Same with Liberty and Freedom, some people find liberty and freedom to not be their vibe, and thankfully there are many other nations, that can provide them all levels of the kind of regime they want to live under, and to that system, America, an entire nation built on the idea of freedom and rebellion against authority, with it's first core right being able to speak out against the government, and it's founding fathers believing that, as need be, overthrow your government, is obviously not the nation for people that feel they should live under more oppressive control.

    You're conflating essential services with entertainment. Utilities cannot deny you public services: power, water, and electricity. You're pulling a typical conservative tactic here, tell a lie often enough that people will start to believe it. Netflix can turn off your movie access because they don't like you, but your electric and water companies cannot. The USPS cannot stop delivering mail to you either.

    Try arguing from facts and not fearful rhetoric. Your Limbaugh style doomsday anecdotes are baseless because that isn't happening.

    By the way, America was founded from Imperial colonies and were not a part of England proper. They did not have representation in government.

    Internet services aren't a utility. Liberals (ie Democrats) and left wing socialists (eg The Green Party) have called for the internet to be designated as a utility with protections but right wing conservatives don't support that, thus they're private companies that can stop doing business with you. You can't have it both ways and how is it that the party of unregulated capitalism doesn't understand how business protocol works in the US? Conservatives are very much against government interference in business until they're inconvenienced by the very system they've created. This is a "Leopards Ate My Face" post and thread.
    YashaXGdemami
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 305
    I generally lean heavy into erroring on the side of not taking things away from people.  I can also see how 'terrorism' is a term that's been used in a nebulous way throughout history. 

    That said, I've always thought it was weird that people were okay letting there kids hang out in chat rooms with often very eccentric adults.  I mean, this was such an issue ten or so years ago that it practically wiped out internet chat rooms as a platform.  It's hard for me to support Twitch usage for sex offenders on a platform that is predominantly children, but I also see how it could be misused.

    Hmmm...tough one.
    YashaX
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,129
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    I assume this is going to be after they are found guilty, if this is instead that the media is mentioning you in an article about murder or such, that would be a huge abuse. Therefore this action will be taken once a verdict in court has been reached, in which case you should be headed to jail not your tablet to play on Twitch. If this is only for former sentencing, the door is opened to what constitutes a crime?

    So I am not quite sure how it will even be implemented, but no doubt "offence creep" will happen and before you know it having too many parking tickets will warrant investigation.
    Actually it is NOT only after they are found guilty.  That is what is so concerning!
    The article says that they will investigate, expect the law enforcement authorities to share evidence with them (a private company) and will take action separate and prior to the legal process playing out.

    And they company flat out admitted that the list of allegations they investigate is just the start and they will grow it after the first wave of PR blows over.

    Guilty before proven guilty is very concerning, but the media have set the precedence for this. If you make a court case an item for days, you are saying they are guilty without actually saying so. If every time a figure in the entertainment industry is in a news item and you mention the "controversy" about them that is saying they are guilty.

    So with broadcasters setting that standard it is easy to see how the social media side of gaming (like Twitch) will be able to get away with this. They don't have to say you are guilty they will just have concerns and ditch you.

    It isn't concerning at all because the conviction status of a person is irrelevant in this scenario. A company, large or small, can do, or not, business with whomever they choose regardless of whether that person has been convicted of a crime or received a civil judgement. Businesses are not obligated in the US to do carry out transactions with any party unless that business did so for reasons based on race, sex (including sexual orientation or identity), religion, or creed.
    YashaXGdemami
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,129
    Torval said:

    The topic is that some people fear Amazon account reprisal for participating in clearly illegal acts outside of their Twitch service 

    That's actually NOT the topic.   The topic is actually about a MEGACORPORATION using it's power to ban people from it's service BEFORE (and that is the key word here) they have been proven to have committed whatever act is in question. And Amazon clearly states that they expect the law enforcement agencies to give "evidence" to the company.  This alone should scare the shit out of every single person hearing it.  Also of note is this quote: “ Though Twitch will initially tackle a handful of listed serious offenses, the platform said it aims for the guidelines to be iterative”.  So yeah, they are literally saying that once they get you to agree they are going to expand.

    You want to lump them in with Mom and Pop stores, well that's your right, but I and others see a clear and distinct difference between a company who's revenue makes it greater than 80% of all COUNTRIES and the corner grocer.

    Again, we have a legal process that addresses "clearly illegal acts".  By this point we should know how dangerous it is to pre-judge.

    It is the topic because, as it has been said many times before in this thread, the conviction or legal judgement status is completely irrelevant as to whether a company does business with an entity. The fact that it is a "megacorporation" or small business is also irrelevant.

    You're trying to reframe the narrative by repeating the expectation that the government should force companies to do business with anyone who isn't convicted of a crime. That isn't how US business works.

    Amazon, and anyone else can seek public records about criminal indictments. Again, you're twisting the narrative to say that "Amazon expects law enforcement to give something they're not entitled to" and that won't happen. Amazon's third party investigators would need to go through the same legal channels any investigator would. It is possible to petition, especially under court orders, to provide information for an investigation.

    Since Amazon isn't a judicial entity they only need enough evidence to satisfy the claim or suspicion that an entity is engaging in objectionable activities.

    The legal system has not only failed to hold certain groups accountable, but has covered for their activities. The public, including businesses, are taking their own appropriate action into their own hands and are well within their rights.

    I'm perfectly happy with everyone who engage in (or promote) the list of activities listed in the news article to have their accounts banned. Why wouldn't I? I don't think in these instances it's dangerous at all to make public judgements. Many conservatives have bragged about their unethical exploits and how they can get away with them. So again, the legal system has failed and this has left individuals and businesses in the position to make ethics choices which they are entirely within their right to do.
    YashaXGdemami
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


This discussion has been closed.