Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

You are the game director for a spiritual successor to your favorite online game

AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,532
edited April 1 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
You are the head of a development studio that wants to create a proper successor to an online game you loved. What aspects of the original would you keep? What would you modernize to appeal to a new audience? What flaws of the original game would you fix? What new ideas would you realistically bring to make a bigger, better product, without undermining the spirit of the original? What artistic direction or change of setting might you take? If applicable, would the new game be based on a licensed IP (not the original source IP that you're making a spiritual successor to, which you do not have the rights to)?


For example, if I were to make a spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1...

What I'd prioritize keeping:
Deep skill system utilizing small bar of 8-10 skills with hundreds of skills to choose from.

Dual classing.

Horizontal progression through cosmetics and hunting for skills/passives.

Tab target combat. 

Enemies using the same skills available to players (though this needs to be balanced independently).

Build respecs being free, convenient, and instant outside of missions.

Fully instanced game design. There's simply challenge types and restrictions that aren't possible in an open world.


What flaws I would fix:
Poor story presentation. Deprioritize cutscenes during missions, prioritizing voiced dialogue during gameplay. When mid-mission cutscenes or visual story segments are required, render characters invulnerable and focus camera as needed.

Lack of interesting gear modifiers. This one needs to be handled in a "plug and play" method that is consistent with the philosophy of free and easy respects. I'd stick to runes that you can freely add and remove, without damaging the weapon or armor. Perhaps even allow you to insert an infinite number of runes in a weapon or armor, while only activating a limited number at once.


What I'd add to the formula
Open patrol zones like those in Marvel Heroes or Destiny.

Passive class trait trees, which are also captured off bosses just like active skills. Would have a more expansive trait tree for your primary class.

Non-human playable races, but they would all use a human frame to share armor skins. Meaning humans, elves/drow, and sidhe would make for ideal candidates.


How I'd change the setting/themes

I'd move from dark age fantasy to a beautiful Italian Renaissance fantasy, emphasizing the art, culture, humanism, and burgeoning innovation of the period.

Post edited by Aeander on
GorweUngoodPo_ggAlBQuirkycheyane
«1

Comments

  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 513
    edited April 2
    You did GW 1(yes, I'd like your version very much, it'd basically be not-weird TSW), so I will do Warhammer Online.

    STAYS: Art(mostly), PQs, RvR, ToK, Guard etc. Most of good things.

    GOES: Renown, Gear based PvP, some other bozo design decisions(any decision that includes XOR type of mentality)

    CHANGES: Not much, but I'd like more cinematic story a la SWTOR. Keep the tone, NO depressing Grimdark! Crafting too, I'd actually include Full Crafting, Housing(instanced a la EQ2 prolly) and such. Faster movement(walking is VERY RARELY an interesting game activity).
    Post edited by Gorwe on
    UngoodAlBQuirkyAAAMEOW
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,591
    I'm assuming you mean a skill bar with 8 - 10 skills? Not 8 - 10 skill bars.

    Aion

    What I'd prioritize keeping:

    The art design and I'd reinstate the original pve/pvp design.

    What flaws I would fix:

    I would remove map "areas" and make it more open world. I'd make the abyss more important for pvp and make the balaur a greater force in the world.

    What I'd add to the formula

    I would allow flight everywhere. You can make it so there are nasty flying beasts so there is still some danger and of course, if players get damaged enough they can fall to their deaths.

    I'd also see if the original idea of each server being different depending on player actions could be done. And, I'd want the world itself to be more interesting. The original trailer had climbing so I'd want there to be places to climb and fly to and explore.

    How I'd change the setting/themes

    I don't know how far they got into changing things but I'd prefer to bring it back to the original setting and original themes though I agree with the change to the Asmodean wings by making the feathered.





    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,591
    Now lord of the rings online


    What I'd prioritize keeping:

    Most of the quests though I'd make it so that the quests were more like the original/earlier quests and you had to actually go and find places. I'd try to be stricter with the lore.

    What flaws I would fix:

    I'd get rid of the art design for gear/clothing it's atrocious. I'd make the world larger and a new engine to fit more people in any given area. I'd add more danger to the world, darker nights.

    What I'd add to the formula

    More open world exploration. There is an area way north of Bree that is wonderful. It's there just because and no quests go there. More world and less theme park.

    How I'd change the setting/themes

    I'd actually want to make the whole ring thing a bit more front and center and perhaps have the world exist in seasons from the start to the throwing of the ring into mount doom. And then resetting.

    That would require a change to the main quest but I don't care.

    I'd completely revamp helm's deep as well as that last battle at minas tirith. less questy and actually a battle.

    We could have players against npc's and maybe even a pvp version where the dark side loses but "wins" if it achieves certain obectives or achieves them in a certain time.

    I'd change out Moria into an actual huge dungeon and NOT what it is now, a series of quest hubs. No dwarves coming back and claiming it immediately after.


    UngoodPo_ggAlBQuirky
  • MargaretavilleMargaretaville Member UncommonPosts: 60
    edited April 1
    Well, I would start with crowdfunding from the community based on a wild unrealistic "vision", sell "founder packs" and other useless marketing digital trinkets, followed by a P2W cash shop, swiftly move into RMT (with my development studio keeping a percentage of player to player sales transactions), then announce to my loyal PC player base supporters that I have changed direction toward a mobile platform based game. 

    I would then release early an unoptimized, bug infested, "Legacy" version with promises to add more content later, after which I would call for an employee meeting in the parking lot and fire the employees.

    But I guess this has all been done many times before.

    Post edited by Margaretaville on
    AlBQuirkyMendel
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,569
    Aeander said:
    What would you modernize to appeal to a new audience?
    Screw the new audience.
    Ehm... I guess I wouldn't be the game director for long :)

    I'd probably just making a collage of sort, from the best features of the game's course - and since best is subjective, it probably won't hit the target for all.

    Taking LotRO for this thought experiment (though Sovrath already made some points)

    What I'd prioritize keeping:
    the content, the writing,
    the world design (digress with Sovrath's seasons idea, I prefer the "timely fixed" zones, still has the flexibility, see regular Isengard and sacked Isengard)
    the music, housing, events, etc.
    Pretty much I'd keep almost everything of current LotRO's content and mechanics

    What flaws I would fix:
    net code, definitely. Actually, the entire code could use a massive overhaul.
    LI system, while following the footsteps of content updates, I'd put extra effort in keeping the LI system in check with every new expansion. The system's idea was nice, just it never took off after the initial Moria stage.

    What I'd add to the formula:
    With the reverts listed below, I wouldn't miss much from the game...

    How I'd change the setting/themes:
    Get back the original crafting (minus the crit items, spawn camp rare mobs is the opposite of the term "fun")
    Back to the original zones which got the streamline nerf (Moria, ND, Old Forest in particular)
    Back with the group quests which were taken out.
    Back to the original traiting, chop down them silly trait trees and burn them :)
    Back to my original minstrel... a true healer, not this dps monster today.
    While I'd leave the quest indicator gps for those who needs it (option is king), I'd still go back to the empty parchment maps. Go and explore, chart your own maps!

    I'm sure if I'd give it time, I could make a list with dozens of more entries, these were just the most annoying/urgent ones.
    AlBQuirkycheyane
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,704
    I'm going to do Like Sovrath and cover 2 MMOs.

    First is EverQuest.

    Keep:
    - Norrath. The 19 differing races with 19 differing starter cities. Have players get to know there roots.
    - Languages (learn and talk to other races)
    - The robust crafting system
    - Enemies that are equal to the characters' levels.
    - Enemies that use tactics like stun, blind, DoT, and fear.
    - BOATS!
    - Higher Level Mobs in every zone
    - Rooted Spellcasting (It supposed to take LOTS of concentration)
    - Factions!

    Do Away With:
    - Hell levels (Where XP came oh so slowly because the mobs were not matched well)
    - Zones (Though they did save my life several times)
    - Needing to have partners just to adventure level appropriately, especially for getting wolf fur or spider silk.


    Change:
    - Limiting crafting to combat. You can not advance crafting past your combat level


    Secondly is Wizard101

    Keep:
    - Spell Deck Building
    - Turn based combat
    - The world of the spiral (lots of possibilities)
    - The basic original magic schools were good (life, death, fire, ice, storm, myth, and balance)

    Do Away With:
    - Kiddie atmosphere and art style
    - Awful cash shop with Boss Chests behind a paywall
    - limited chat due to kids

    Change:
    - For an adult audience

    UngoodcheyanePo_gg

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,417
    I enjoy Realm vs Realm but always felt it's better to be structured instead of everyone running around doing whatever they want.  

    Maybe a crossover to MOBA.  large scale 50 vs 50 fights.  

    But I don't know how that stop people from afking in game though.  
    AlBQuirky
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 513
    AAAMEOW said:
    I enjoy Realm vs Realm but always felt it's better to be structured instead of everyone running around doing whatever they want.  

    Maybe a crossover to MOBA.  large scale 50 vs 50 fights.  

    But I don't know how that stop people from afking in game though.  

    What do you think about gear affecting PvP performance? While at RvR.
    AlBQuirky
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,417
    Gorwe said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I enjoy Realm vs Realm but always felt it's better to be structured instead of everyone running around doing whatever they want.  

    Maybe a crossover to MOBA.  large scale 50 vs 50 fights.  

    But I don't know how that stop people from afking in game though.  

    What do you think about gear affecting PvP performance? While at RvR.
    I read your comment about renown ranks.  

    I actually quit warhammer online when I maxed out my renown ranks.  Because there is nothing to chase after.

    I think almost all mmorpg have some sort of character progression to keep people playing.  When people run out of things to chase, they are likely to quit.
    UngoodGorweAlBQuirky
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 513
    AAAMEOW said:
    Gorwe said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I enjoy Realm vs Realm but always felt it's better to be structured instead of everyone running around doing whatever they want.  

    Maybe a crossover to MOBA.  large scale 50 vs 50 fights.  

    But I don't know how that stop people from afking in game though.  

    What do you think about gear affecting PvP performance? While at RvR.
    I read your comment about renown ranks.  

    I actually quit warhammer online when I maxed out my renown ranks.  Because there is nothing to chase after.

    I think almost all mmorpg have some sort of character progression to keep people playing.  When people run out of things to chase, they are likely to quit.

    Fair enough, but PvP should be about skill, about getting better. About outplaying your enemy, not outgearing him. PvP is the best when you feel like you accomplished something, against all odds. While RvR might feel like that, once you realize that you haven't done anything special, that it was your gear doing the heavy lifting...I don't know, for me it goes against everything PvP stands for.
    cameltosisAlBQuirky
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,417
    Gorwe said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Gorwe said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I enjoy Realm vs Realm but always felt it's better to be structured instead of everyone running around doing whatever they want.  

    Maybe a crossover to MOBA.  large scale 50 vs 50 fights.  

    But I don't know how that stop people from afking in game though.  

    What do you think about gear affecting PvP performance? While at RvR.
    I read your comment about renown ranks.  

    I actually quit warhammer online when I maxed out my renown ranks.  Because there is nothing to chase after.

    I think almost all mmorpg have some sort of character progression to keep people playing.  When people run out of things to chase, they are likely to quit.

    Fair enough, but PvP should be about skill, about getting better. About outplaying your enemy, not outgearing him. PvP is the best when you feel like you accomplished something, against all odds. While RvR might feel like that, once you realize that you haven't done anything special, that it was your gear doing the heavy lifting...I don't know, for me it goes against everything PvP stands for.
    I don't' have any problem with standardized gear.  But at the time I was playing warhammer, I think almost everyone have same gear.  I may have 4 set item, the other guy have 3...  It's not like I outgear other people much.  I dont' know what happened after.

    But if they put standarized gear(like GW2), I wouldn't care either.  I think most people playing RPG games like some sort of progression.  Which really could be anything from gold, unlocks, or cosmetic.    
    AlBQuirky
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,190
    I would fix Anarchy Online:

    Keep:
    Implants/Symbiants system
    Mission system
    World Size
    Dungeons
    Crafting
    Skills System but fix/remove the useless ones like swimming

    Improve:
    Land Graphics
    Face and body graphics
    Daily Quests (would probably get rid of them)
    Revamp the market (stuff was ridiculously overpriced)


    Basically it was/is a great game game but badly needs a graphics overhaul.....A few things need tweeking here and there...I would make it more fun to fly your Yalm....I still think Sci-fi is the way to go for the next great MMO but who will do it?

    UngoodcheyanePo_ggAlBQuirky
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,802
    edited April 1
    I would eliminate one idea that is repeated over and over and over>>Grind grind grind BOSS....grind grind grind BOSS,get rid of that crap and it is a good start.
    The game i long dreamed for is already here but only 50% realized and that is Atlas.

    Give me terraforming,change the stats and implementation ideas,add more content/assets and NO  gear or level unlocks.You simply explore the world to find and learn magic/knowledge  and find crafting recipes.Bosses would only be there to cause an annoyance,to keep you on your toes while traveling.Bosses would be treated like any other crerature in the world only a tougher foe.it would not be a case of farm bosses for the best mats and loot as crafting would take on a totally different form in my design.

    My game would be ever growing,my team adding new harvests,new creatures etc etc.So the ongoing fee would be enough to keep a team improving the game with no expansion sales.

    Would i somehow implement pvp,perhaps but i would never allow it to deter from the PVE game,it would take a back seat.My goal would be to get players to work together and not against each other.
    Bottom line for me  is that Atlas is the golden template,get a serious developer to take that template idea and make it AAA and that is the only game i need.
    UngoodAlBQuirky

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • RungarRungar Member UncommonPosts: 256
    valheim mmo. called Hel

    No levels to gain, food, gear and comfort are your levels!
    get rid of the "skills 0-100" they are useless anyhow. 
    much shallower progression where the top player is only about 3-5 times as strong as an entry player. 

    each randomly generated world holds 200 players and room for 100 visitors ( 300 total) but is connected to other worlds like a honeycomb so you can move to 6 adjacent worlds ( as long as the portal is open/ aka world isnt full). 

    Different worlds have some differing rulesets enabled, like pvp or no pvp: full loot, one itemloot, no loot, different death penalties, resource distribution is different on each world. Some worlds your base can be destroyed and others it cant. If you leave a world for too long you lose certain protections on your bases if they have any. Differing challenge on each world, differing day and night cycles. Extra resources based on extra challege parameters. You can have waterworlds and desertworlds and iceworlds and everything in-between. 

    More biomes ( at least 20!) and not all worlds have all the biomes. Some worlds might only have one biome or all 20. Each biome has a particular material  and enemies attached to it. Unlike valheim all materials are generally equal and all are useful in certain applications. 

    Rather than everything crafted instead there is pure crafted stuff and corrupted stuff which is partially crafted and partially found but when used in corrupted form gives penalties in addition to the bonuses. When you remake them and remove the corruption the bonuses diminish somewhat and the penalties dissapear.   

    multiple layers of procedurally generated fun that generates radially from the center with increasing challenge and complexity. 

    If you fall off the world you fall into a random new world. Good luck getting back.

      
    UngoodAlBQuirky
    Bring back the game design forum you had way back in the day!
  • WargfootWargfoot Member RarePosts: 455
    I'd rewrite UO in 3D with realm based warfare, except, the realms would be vertical.

    Above Ground
    Caves and Dungeons
    Crypts and Catacombes
    The Lost
    Orc Lands
    The Pit

    Human Race would spawn above ground.
    Orc Race would spawn in the Orc Lands.

    Humans could fight all the way down to 'The Lost' depth with no disadvantage; however, upon entering the 'Orc Lands' level they'd fight at -20% health & damage.  Conversely, the Orcs would lose -15% effectiveness for each level beyond 'The Lost' depth.  

    This means an Orc party could possibly 'grief' your noobie 'Above Ground' but they'd be fighting at -45% health and damage, so the option exists, but most PvP would probably occur in 'The Lost' where I'd place capturable objectives and stuff.  

    Crypts and Catacombes would also feature a variety of undead playable classes with simplified skills trees and so forth.  They could wander upwards but grow weaker the further away they get from their graves - appearing above ground as trivially weak foes, except during special events.

    The game would still allow for human PKs; however, upon death the human PK would be sent to 'The Pit'.  He'd awake there buck naked.  To escape he'd have to get past several layers of 'The Pit' and all through the other layers to get back above ground - any death, and it is back to 'The Pit'.

    The game would be skill based with no levels.



    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,532
    edited April 1
    Gorwe said:
    You did GW 1(yes, I'd like your version very much, it'd basically be not-weird TSW), so I will do Warhammer Online.
    TSW does have similarities to GW1, at least in its build systems. So I did want to like it. Shame about the rest of the game.

    I'm also thinking of additional changes I'd make, and one I keep coming back to is more skill shots. Not on a massive scale, but to give more mechanical players something to do beyond tab target combat; the only real show-off builds in GW1 are interrupters, afterall. 
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,904
    A "spiritual successor" implies that the sequel will retain the general spirit of the original, however the changes I'd make to the majority of games I used to play would change them too much that you wouldn't be able to consider them spiritual successors.


    So, I'll choose the one which would at least feel similar to the original: Warhammer Online.


    What I'd Keep:

    • The races - WAR had a good representation of the various fantasy races from the lore.
    • The classes - there were some really interesting mechanics and playstyles available from the various classes. Not just in terms of roles, but in the manner those roles were carried out.
    • The RvR lakes - I really enjoyed the fact that every single zone included a decent sized area for PvPing.
    • Public Quests - whilst they ended up being pretty inconsequential in the original game, the idea was never-the-less good, they just needed some small changes to make them relevent.

    What Flaws I Would Fix:

    • I would switch to horizontal progression. The extreme vertical progression was a real problem in the original and drove many of my friends away from the game. It just doesn't make sense to have a PvP-focused game with such large power gaps. Not only does it harm the PvP itself, it makes it a real struggle for new players to get involved. So, switch to horizontal, make all the game accessible to everyone from day 1, with progression coming from new specialisations and customisations, rather than just more power.
    • The source of loot. In every iteration of the game I've played, the source of loot has been too random. Originally, you had to take a keep, then get lucky enough to win a gold bag, then get lucky enough that the bag contained the gear you wanted. So, I'd switch it so that it matched one of the final iterations of live I played: buy the gear from a vendor with gold. This frees the players to do whatever content they want, find the fun they want, and as long as they're ranking up, they can get the gear.
    • More equality between PvE and PvP. They put a lot of effort into the PvE originally, with loads of quests, public quests, open dungeons and instanced dungeons. However, as all the best gear came from PvP, you were shooting yourself in the foot if you engaged in the PvE. That shit needs to change, there needs to be parity between both playstyles. Horizontal progression will fix some of that, so i'll just need to put in some extra effort to ensure the parity is complete.
    • Cut some of the bloat, and add some more depth, to the combat mechanics. The original did pretty good in all fairness, but most classes had a decent amount of useless skill bloat, adding unneeded complexity. So, I'd remove that bloat, replacing it with new skills that have more meaning and add more depth to the combat.
    • A more connected world - the three pairings were separated, but even within a pairing, it felt like each zone was quite separate from the others. I would want to remove those barriers, make the whole game feel like a single, integrated world.
    • A better code base for large scale RvR. The base game didn't do well, RoR has done much better. A sequel needs a codebase that can handle 1000 player battles out of the gate.

    What I Would Add:

    • More roles! We had tank, healer and DPS, I would add buffer, debuffer and CC as specific roles. Those sorts of skills were spread around the other classes, but I feel the game would be better served if there were specific roles. I'm not sure if I'd repurpose an existing class (e.g. make squig herder a debuffer) or add entirely new classes. Probably add new ones.
    • Player buildings / construction. Whilst I am a strong advocate for horizontal progression when it comes to character power, there is still a clear case for vertical progression outside of the character: wealth, land, businesses etc. So, to start with, I'd add in player buildings / construction. I'd focus initial on keeps. Guilds could capture and claim keeps before, I'd like the players to be able to build, expand and fortify what they claim. In addition to keeps, I'd like players to own / build / design their own houses in the game world. This would probably require a significant expansion of the game world to accomodate such player cities.
    • Full crafting - not just the talismans and potions from live, but weapons, armour, jewellery and cosmetics. This way, players have three ways to acquire gear: PvP, PvE and crafting. Choice is king.
    • More meaning to the RvR. I will admit I'm not sure how I'd achieve this, but the live game ended with a lot of trading of keeps or throwing zones in order to initiate city sieges. After all, that's how you got the best gear, regardless of which side you're on. I would like winning, and holding, territory to be more important and for it to feel like more of a victory. I'd players defending territory, rather than not caring whether it flips.
    • The remaining 4 cities - IC and Altdorf were cool, but there was meant to be 6 capital cities, not just 2. Admittedly, I don't really care about the elves, but I really want to see both Orc and Dwarf cities.

    What I Would Change About The Theme:

    • Remove a lot of the cheesiness from the greenskin races. Sure, orcs and goblins aren't supposed to be intelligent, but they are supposed to be ruthless and brutal, which was undermined by the comedy element.
    • Better graphics / world design. to run properly, I had to turn the graphics right down, so the world looked really blocky and lifeless. The sequel should feel like a more alive place. Should be doable these days.
    MendelUngoodGorwePo_ggAlBQuirky
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,398
    I wouldn't want to do a 'spiritual successor' to another game; I'd rather do something different.  A large reason why I would try to stay away from another game is that decisions made deep within the game are probably the ones I'd want to really rethink -- all that would accomplish is irritate the fans of the original and provide a built-in segment of people who would disagree with whatever changes I might choose to make.  I just don't need that magnitude of stress in my life.  Or so say my doctors.

    (Also, doing a successor to another game probably means dealing with IP rights.  I believe I can do my own IP. at least, I'd want to try that route first.  If I (and my team) could manage the AI, I'd want to tackle more dynamic elements than a story built into a game).



    UngoodAlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • ringdanyringdany Member UncommonPosts: 167
    edited April 2

    Let me try with a spiritual successor to Champions of Regnum.... 

    hmm i guess the funny thing is i wouldn't change very much. the game seems to me to be fairly close to perpetual fun for me. but there are flaws:

    What I'd prioritize keeping:

    I would keep, realm lore, which  is really good. It has a sort of Mediterranean lore feel to it, which is subtly different from lotr style lore. It hearkens back to early days of Charlemagne and Roland. It even has its own sustaining community European storytellers growing the lore.

    The same combat and skill setup, which refinements as below.

    Overall look and feel, with refinements as below.

    What flaws I would fix:

    Allow new players to be powered up to max level and join RvR within a day or so of playing. They are actually already working on this with their Squid Island updates.

    I think the game engine itself is a bit clunky. The interface and buttons i guess are a bit sharp and unforgiving. But... im not really inclined to change too much. The smoothest combat ive found is in WoW. But nowadays i find WoW a bit spongy.

    I would update the text size so it is larger on HD+ resolutions. But the games gfx and art is remarkably crisp and attractive for its age.

    I would stop the clipping and make animations meld to sloping ground.

    The game engine may not perform so well at 300v300v300+. Maybe revise/update it to handle that. it does 100v100v100 fairly well.

    What I'd add to the formula

    More abilities. The game draws its abilities as a subset of those found in games like NWN or mmos like DAOC. There are maybe 50 abilities for each class. I would bring in more abilities. NWN had maybe 100+ abilities for each class. PvP would have to be rebalanced.

    More character classes. NWN had maybe 30+ classes. I would bring in Druid, the 6 or so Cleric variations, Bard, Paladin, Blackguard, Ranger, Assassin, Shadowdancer and so on. And cross classes too. 

    How I'd change the setting/themes

    I wouldn't change much. I think the map would need to be larger. But my preference is to have multiple servers rather than growing the map. I prefer the ability of free travel between servers (each server with say 1,000+ players each would become its own instance..?)

    I tend to prefer actually rolling back changes to earlier days. The game had a much stronger pvp balance in its earlier days. And its fort battles/capture formats were a bit more sophisticated. Earlier pvp though, had very powerful mage abilities, and wars could end up more jerky due to freeze spell fx (that's why they changed it). The fort cap simplification also was to help newer players jump in.

    I am in favour of more stringent balancing of realm numbers. But this is very difficult to do (how do you account for afkers and grinders?). I think their Squid Island update can help deal with this.  They already have instanced arenas, so players who prefer balanced teams can pick those. Personally I want to change those instanced arenas to random teams rather than pre-chosen teams.

    Otherwise than the above,the game is quite fun for me.


    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    A "spiritual successor" implies that the sequel will retain the general spirit of the original, however the changes I'd make to the majority of games I used to play would change them too much that you wouldn't be able to consider them spiritual successors.
    This is a really Good Point.

    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,141
    Starcraft 2.

    Id make it so only i have an easy win button. That way i can win and not stagnate as a trash diamond player that im doing now. 

    J/k
    UngoodAlBQuirky
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,532
    edited April 2
    A "spiritual successor" tends to mean that the game quite explicitly doesn't have the same IP as the original, but is attempting to bring its core ideas forward into a new game. Ie: Eiyuden Chronicle is a spiritual successor to Suikoden and Yooka-Laylee is a spiritual successor to Banjo Kazooie.

    I suppose for game's like LOTRO and Wahammer Online the IP was largely the point of the thing, so I'll allow it. Though it lacks the flair of say... using the Warhammer IP for a Starcraft successor or using The Boys as an IP for a spiritual successor to InFamous.
    AlBQuirky
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 513
    A "spiritual successor" implies that the sequel will retain the general spirit of the original, however the changes I'd make to the majority of games I used to play would change them too much that you wouldn't be able to consider them spiritual successors.


    So, I'll choose the one which would at least feel similar to the original: Warhammer Online.


    What I'd Keep:

    • The races - WAR had a good representation of the various fantasy races from the lore.
    • The classes - there were some really interesting mechanics and playstyles available from the various classes. Not just in terms of roles, but in the manner those roles were carried out.
    • The RvR lakes - I really enjoyed the fact that every single zone included a decent sized area for PvPing.
    • Public Quests - whilst they ended up being pretty inconsequential in the original game, the idea was never-the-less good, they just needed some small changes to make them relevent.

    What Flaws I Would Fix:

    • I would switch to horizontal progression. The extreme vertical progression was a real problem in the original and drove many of my friends away from the game. It just doesn't make sense to have a PvP-focused game with such large power gaps. Not only does it harm the PvP itself, it makes it a real struggle for new players to get involved. So, switch to horizontal, make all the game accessible to everyone from day 1, with progression coming from new specialisations and customisations, rather than just more power.
    • The source of loot. In every iteration of the game I've played, the source of loot has been too random. Originally, you had to take a keep, then get lucky enough to win a gold bag, then get lucky enough that the bag contained the gear you wanted. So, I'd switch it so that it matched one of the final iterations of live I played: buy the gear from a vendor with gold. This frees the players to do whatever content they want, find the fun they want, and as long as they're ranking up, they can get the gear.
    • More equality between PvE and PvP. They put a lot of effort into the PvE originally, with loads of quests, public quests, open dungeons and instanced dungeons. However, as all the best gear came from PvP, you were shooting yourself in the foot if you engaged in the PvE. That shit needs to change, there needs to be parity between both playstyles. Horizontal progression will fix some of that, so i'll just need to put in some extra effort to ensure the parity is complete.
    • Cut some of the bloat, and add some more depth, to the combat mechanics. The original did pretty good in all fairness, but most classes had a decent amount of useless skill bloat, adding unneeded complexity. So, I'd remove that bloat, replacing it with new skills that have more meaning and add more depth to the combat.
    • A more connected world - the three pairings were separated, but even within a pairing, it felt like each zone was quite separate from the others. I would want to remove those barriers, make the whole game feel like a single, integrated world.
    • A better code base for large scale RvR. The base game didn't do well, RoR has done much better. A sequel needs a codebase that can handle 1000 player battles out of the gate.

    What I Would Add:

    • More roles! We had tank, healer and DPS, I would add buffer, debuffer and CC as specific roles. Those sorts of skills were spread around the other classes, but I feel the game would be better served if there were specific roles. I'm not sure if I'd repurpose an existing class (e.g. make squig herder a debuffer) or add entirely new classes. Probably add new ones.
    • Player buildings / construction. Whilst I am a strong advocate for horizontal progression when it comes to character power, there is still a clear case for vertical progression outside of the character: wealth, land, businesses etc. So, to start with, I'd add in player buildings / construction. I'd focus initial on keeps. Guilds could capture and claim keeps before, I'd like the players to be able to build, expand and fortify what they claim. In addition to keeps, I'd like players to own / build / design their own houses in the game world. This would probably require a significant expansion of the game world to accomodate such player cities.
    • Full crafting - not just the talismans and potions from live, but weapons, armour, jewellery and cosmetics. This way, players have three ways to acquire gear: PvP, PvE and crafting. Choice is king.
    • More meaning to the RvR. I will admit I'm not sure how I'd achieve this, but the live game ended with a lot of trading of keeps or throwing zones in order to initiate city sieges. After all, that's how you got the best gear, regardless of which side you're on. I would like winning, and holding, territory to be more important and for it to feel like more of a victory. I'd players defending territory, rather than not caring whether it flips.
    • The remaining 4 cities - IC and Altdorf were cool, but there was meant to be 6 capital cities, not just 2. Admittedly, I don't really care about the elves, but I really want to see both Orc and Dwarf cities.

    What I Would Change About The Theme:

    • Remove a lot of the cheesiness from the greenskin races. Sure, orcs and goblins aren't supposed to be intelligent, but they are supposed to be ruthless and brutal, which was undermined by the comedy element.
    • Better graphics / world design. to run properly, I had to turn the graphics right down, so the world looked really blocky and lifeless. The sequel should feel like a more alive place. Should be doable these days.
    Keep: Fully agreed. I am a bit cautious about RvR lakes, but meh

    Fix: Idk about fully horizontal progression, but what WAR did is simply wrong. Too much verticality in a PvP mode simply kills it if you better think about it. Source of loot and PvE parity, oh so much yes! I mean, so much work and effort has been put into PvE and I won't even mention the super ultra RNG loot. Don't know how to achieve parity, but loot should be purchasable with Medallions, a special currency of sorts. Don't know about the code.

    Add: Full crafting and instanced housing is a big YES. I already mentioned that(I think). I actually don't want more roles, maybe one extra(Support), but that's it. And getting Lothern or Karaz-a-Karak(what'd Druchii and Greenskins get)? Hell yeah!

    Now about RvR. I have spoken plenty of times about WAR, about FvF(Faction vs Faction), about RvR, the difference between these, but those posts could be deleted, so here's what. I don't find WAR to be RvR at all. For a game to be RvR, it needs to have focus, a goal, where EVERYONE from a Realm helps the Realm. Be it crafting, PvE-ing or PvP-ing. WAR did have something approaching that(around 1.42 or so iirc), but PvP-ers cried(like little entitled bitches they are), so it got changed(as opposed to getting fixed and worked on). What WAR has is simply massive / large scale PvP that is a simple FvF. Because what you do in a Scenario, what you do in PvE etc...ultimately meaningless and that is NOT what RvR is(or should be). Everything needs better integration if the term RvR is to be kept.
    AlBQuirky
  • ringdanyringdany Member UncommonPosts: 167
    edited April 2
    Gorwe said:


    Now about RvR. I have spoken plenty of times about WAR, about FvF(Faction vs Faction), about RvR, the difference between these, but those posts could be deleted, so here's what. I don't find WAR to be RvR at all. For a game to be RvR, it needs to have focus, a goal, where EVERYONE from a Realm helps the Realm. Be it crafting, PvE-ing or PvP-ing. WAR did have something approaching that(around 1.42 or so iirc), but PvP-ers cried(like little entitled bitches they are), so it got changed(as opposed to getting fixed and worked on). What WAR has is simply massive / large scale PvP that is a simple FvF. Because what you do in a Scenario, what you do in PvE etc...ultimately meaningless and that is NOT what RvR is(or should be). Everything needs better integration if the term RvR is to be kept.
    i have some low level characters in RoR. But i haven't really tried the RvR.

    I am interested in your comment saying RoR does not have true RvR. I wonder if Champions of Regnum is the only mmorpg (besides maybe DAOC?) with true RvR. In Regnum, there is only one map, the great majority of  everyone is fighting for one thing. Everything a single player does, affects their realm's chances to win the ultimate goal: earning the Dragon Wish.

    anyway. sorry for going off tangent on discussion.

    AlBQuirky
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Ok I'll Dip into this Discussion.

    DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) would be the base game.

    Going to be honest, do not know anything about 5E, so, that would be an unknown if I would adopt that ruleset, ideally I believe for the IP to be obtained, it would need to be 5E or some homebrew variant of 5E. So.. since I am not sure how that system works, I will try to keep that out of the discussion.

    What I would Keep:

    Instance Dungeons:

    The Core idea of the game being about the Dungeon Crawl with a few close friends.

    Complex and engaging dungeons, that felt like an old school Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Crawl, with traps, mobs, hidden doors, puzzles, locks, keys, etc,.

    All the thing that make you want to go at these quests with a balanced party to handle all the various challenges you will face, and all the things that made the game great, right down to the campy DM narration.

    Monsters:

    I would gather every monster from the DDO Books, and make them. Give them all the D&D Game abilities they are supposed to have in a common sense way.

    IE: Fire Mephitis are Immune Fire but take extra damage from Ice. Iron Golems get Healed by Fire. You need Ghost Touch weapons to hit Ghosts. Rust Monsters Eat Metal. Oozes break apart and multiply when hit by blades. etc.

    All the cool aspects and features of the Monsters would be put into the game, this is a KEEP by the way, in case anyone is asking, DDO already does this.

    Races:

    I love the Races and the fact that they each have their own boons and drawbacks. So this feature would be a Keep.

    Classes:

    Again, love how D&D set this up.. so a Keep. Also their whole Milti-class system, would be kept as well.

    Armor and Weapons:

    DDO has no restrictions on what someone can equip.

    IE: anyone can pick up a greatsword and attack with it, even if they are not proficient with the weapon,  Anyone can put on a chain shirt, even if they are not proficient with it. 

    So this feature of zero restrictions on what you can and cannot use, would be applied.

    Equally so, DDO also puts in restrictions in other ways. IE: If you have monk levels and are not using Ki Weapons, you cannot use Monk Ki Abilities. You cannot evade in anything heavier than light armor, or with a shield larder than a small shield. Some shields & armors, and the like can also make spell casting harder for some classes. Etc, Etc.

    So that system would be adopted into the game.

    Selling Adventure Packs:

    Modules are a Staple of the D&D game system. So, this system would be kept, where the game was sold in Modules, and other bits like that.

    Of course with an optional Sub system, that gave access to all content.

    Resource Management: 

    DDO is a Dungeon Running Resources Management game, as such that system would be kept, players would not have endless supplies, they have what they brought into the dungeon, and the goal would be to beat the quest with what they had. Just like the Table Top game.

    What I Would Change:

    Addition of Open World

    All "Explorer Zones" would become Open World Zones, akin to GW2 style, and of course this would add all the junk that comes with that, like mounts, and what have you.

    These would also not be Resource Management zones, players would heal naturally and recover abilities and spell points and what have you.

    Underwater Combat:
    Akin to GW2 Underwater Combat, Would be put into the game.

    Loot:
     
    Going to be honest, the endless stream of loot-gen is kinda of annoying, so this would be replaced with a solid viable crafting system, that could be started and used at level 1, to outfit yourself.

    But since a lot of D&D games are about questing after some epic gear, I would break gear down into 3 groups.

    Raid Gear:
    Named Gear:
    Crafted Gear:

    There is just some joy in pulling your Sword of Shadows from a Dragons Chest, and that is something I would want to keep alive. Needing to haul about 40 other loot-gen junk swords just so you can sell them at the vendors.. that can die in a fire.

    Graphics:

    I would use Claymation or Cartoonish style graphics, ideally in the vein of Crowfall, that way they would age better as time went on, as DDO is an old game, and no joke, the graphics makes this abundantly clear, and that is a feature flaw I would like to remove, so the idea would be to make the graphics more timeless. But, also, keep is kind of cheesecake, because lets get real, D&D wall art was borderline softcore porn, so that too, is something I would try to work into the whole system.

    This of course would also put a heavy sprinkling of Fashion Wars into the Loot System, because.. why not.

    What I would Toss:

    The Code:

    Pretty much the whole game, all the code, all of it, just tossed and start from the ground up. DDO was poorly optimized from the start, and has only gotten worse over the years, so, the while core system, whatever it is built off, would need to be trashed, and a new better, more optimized system would need to be used.

    The Setting:

    Ebberon could have been a great setting. But ideally, I think would rather start the game in it's own Setting, and then build off into other settings via full Expansions.

    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Sign In or Register to comment.