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Valheim Nears 500,000 Concurrent Players | MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,955
    edited February 23
    Splattr said:
    remsleep said:

    the only criticism of Valhiem is the AI - and that doesn't mean that the game is "bad" and that I don't like the game - which again people are jumping to this conclusion for some strange reason.


    I asked you before but either you avoided it or I missed your response.  Can you list the current online games that have fully functional and unexploitable AI?  Bonus for one that costs a one time $20 price.
    Whether other games have fully functional and unexploitable AI has no bearing on Valheim. Even if every other game had worse AI, that still wouldn't make Valheim's AI good, just better. 

    As an analogy, I present you a wonderful pile of crap. I tell you the crap smells bad, and you fire back at me asking me to produce a pile of crap that doesn't smell bad. No matter what other piles of crap are smelling like, mine still stinks. It might be the least smelly pile of crap ever made but it still stinks.

    That doesn't mean my pile of crap is worthless. Maybe the other qualities of my pile make it good. Size, consistency, color, how well it spreads. There's plenty of reasons my pile of crap is good, it's smell isn't one of them. 

    Now, I'm also not saying that Valheim's AI sucks. I haven't played enough of it to make that conclusion. And I am really upset that I had to come in on the same side as remsleep on this one. It made me throw up just a little bit in my mouth. :p


    No... that misses the point.   If your only criticism of a game is the feature (AI) that is pretty much on par with 99.999% of other released online games... then that's really not a very fair critique is it?   Thats my point.  Is it really any worse than it's peers?  Heck no.  Sure you can mention it... but to seek out exploit videos made in godmode and then post like it's far substandard is just an attempt to be very misleading. 

    IMHO AI in EVERY game is pathetic.  In games that have made billions of dollars, you can walk to the "Throne room" and "Pull" the king's guards one at a time and slaughter them in a hallway.  If by some chance they see you, just run away and they will eventually just walk back to their dumb position of standing around, regardless of whether Johnny the guard is now dead on the floor.  I argue constantly that once we get a reasonable AI in games.. PvP becomes irrelevant because the NPCs will be smart enough that you cant tell the difference.  We arent anywhere near there yet... and expecting that level of AI from a $20 survival game is just not a reasonable expectation IMHO.




    Your entire excuse for poor AI boils down to:

    1. It's a $20 - what do you expect - it's going to be crap
    2. Every other game has bad AI 


    Not sure if you realize this - but this does not in fact refute that Valheim has bad AI - in fact it supports it.

    So you agree that AI is in fact lacking in Valheim - and your entire problem with me telling you that AI is bad - because I haven't played it 1st hand.

    it's ridiculous, don't you see - that you are actually on the same page with me as far as AI being poor.

    We agree on this - your only issue is that I am saying this from 2nd hand experience - you refuse to acknowledge that what I've been saying all along is true for some reason, just because I haven't played it.

    Pretend that I've played it - and I am telling you that AI is bad - would you agree with me then?




  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    Torval said:
    remsleep said:
    A speedrun of a seed where they have seen the map and already played it through and know each boss location?  WTF good is that.  Thats like saying you can read the LOTR in 2 minutes by just jumping to the final chapter.

    Give it up.  You keep positing random stuff you find on the internet and to those of us that play the game it is absolutely batshit bonkers silly.

    All speedruns are batshit bonkers silly by nature.

    Which is strange that you keep bringing them up and using it as metric to criticize the game. Quite puzzling.
    Queue the "I wasn't criticizing the game" routine...


    I am criticizing the game as far as early access and AI - so I am in fact criticizing the game.

    I am not *hating* the game however.
    I am not saying the game is *bad*

    For some reason on forums - any criticism immediately leads to "hater" - it's crazy.

    As I said before I have harsh criticism for many things in life that I love. You can be critical without hating stuff, and without thinking it's bad.

    I think there's a mistaken belief that the only way to support something and love something is to have zero criticism about it.

    I think that's a lie - it's totally normal to see downsides and have criticism and still love stuff regardless.
    No.  You continue to make that false equivalency.   Other people have TRIED the game and disliked it, stated so on these very forums, and not gotten any grief.  See the post 3 above yours for an example.  That is quite different from not playing a game (even when offered to be given a free copy), spending your time searching Reddit and Youtube for videos of people who have found an exploit or playing in godmode and then pretending that gives from credibility to your criticism.   

    I criticize games all the time.  Lets be honest 95% of the time.  But most of that is either for a game that I have in fact tried (Crowfall, CU, etc...) or games that NOBODY has tried (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, etc...).  I do not think I have ever tried to watch exploit videos for a game with 3.5M players (96% positive reviews) and tried to rationalize a critique of the game off that.  

    What you are trying to rationalize is the equivalent of doing a film critique based off of a parody review of a trailer...  for a released movie that you refuse to see even when offered for free.






    How would 1st hand experience change this - I've watched many streams and videos - I can guarantee that even when this launches (whenever that is) - unless they fix the AI - I will have the same complaint.

     
    As I explained... I give you a copy.  You come play.  You show me how to do all the stuff you saw in the video, without cheats, exploits or anything else.  You start fresh on the server and show me how poor the AI is by abusing it for me.

    You refuse to do that because you KNOW that when you enter the game, even though you watched all these videos that theoretically spoiled the game, you cannot replicate what they show.  You will die.  Then you will die.  Then you will die.

    And then if that happened, maybe you would be forced to admit that the AI was good enough for the game to present a challenge.

    So of course, you will avoid that at all costs, sit on the sidelines and live vicariously through staged videos of exploiters.

    Seriously.  You, a gamer coming in with all the edge of having watched these videos for weeks should have zero problem right?  Come demonstrate it.  The offer is open for the rest of tonight.  Then we can watch the videos of your exploits together.  Heck.. I will even try and livestream it on Discord so everyone can watch live and see you back up what you say.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    remsleep said:
    Splattr said:
    remsleep said:

    the only criticism of Valhiem is the AI - and that doesn't mean that the game is "bad" and that I don't like the game - which again people are jumping to this conclusion for some strange reason.


    I asked you before but either you avoided it or I missed your response.  Can you list the current online games that have fully functional and unexploitable AI?  Bonus for one that costs a one time $20 price.
    Whether other games have fully functional and unexploitable AI has no bearing on Valheim. Even if every other game had worse AI, that still wouldn't make Valheim's AI good, just better. 

    As an analogy, I present you a wonderful pile of crap. I tell you the crap smells bad, and you fire back at me asking me to produce a pile of crap that doesn't smell bad. No matter what other piles of crap are smelling like, mine still stinks. It might be the least smelly pile of crap ever made but it still stinks.

    That doesn't mean my pile of crap is worthless. Maybe the other qualities of my pile make it good. Size, consistency, color, how well it spreads. There's plenty of reasons my pile of crap is good, it's smell isn't one of them. 

    Now, I'm also not saying that Valheim's AI sucks. I haven't played enough of it to make that conclusion. And I am really upset that I had to come in on the same side as remsleep on this one. It made me throw up just a little bit in my mouth. :p


    No... that misses the point.   If your only criticism of a game is the feature (AI) that is pretty much on par with 99.999% of other released online games... then that's really not a very fair critique is it?   Thats my point.  Is it really any worse than it's peers?  Heck no.  Sure you can mention it... but to seek out exploit videos made in godmode and then post like it's far substandard is just an attempt to be very misleading. 

    IMHO AI in EVERY game is pathetic.  In games that have made billions of dollars, you can walk to the "Throne room" and "Pull" the king's guards one at a time and slaughter them in a hallway.  If by some chance they see you, just run away and they will eventually just walk back to their dumb position of standing around, regardless of whether Johnny the guard is now dead on the floor.  I argue constantly that once we get a reasonable AI in games.. PvP becomes irrelevant because the NPCs will be smart enough that you cant tell the difference.  We arent anywhere near there yet... and expecting that level of AI from a $20 survival game is just not a reasonable expectation IMHO.




    Your entire excuse for poor AI boils down to:

    1. It's a $20 - what do you expect - it's going to be crap
    2. Every other game has bad AI 


    Not sure if you realize this - but this does not in fact refute that Valheim has bad AI - in fact it supports it.

    So you agree that AI is in fact lacking in Valheim - and your entire problem with me telling you that AI is bad - because I haven't played it 1st hand.

    it's ridiculous, don't you see - that you are actually on the same page with me as far as AI being poor.

    We agree on this - your only issue is that I am saying this from 2nd hand experience - you refuse to acknowledge that what I've been saying all along is true for some reason, just because I haven't played it.

    Pretend that I've played it - and I am telling you that AI is bad - would you agree with me then?




    See prior post.  Lets stop the games.  Come play.  I will stream it.  You can show the world and put this to bed.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,955
    edited February 23
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    Torval said:
    remsleep said:
    A speedrun of a seed where they have seen the map and already played it through and know each boss location?  WTF good is that.  Thats like saying you can read the LOTR in 2 minutes by just jumping to the final chapter.

    Give it up.  You keep positing random stuff you find on the internet and to those of us that play the game it is absolutely batshit bonkers silly.

    All speedruns are batshit bonkers silly by nature.

    Which is strange that you keep bringing them up and using it as metric to criticize the game. Quite puzzling.
    Queue the "I wasn't criticizing the game" routine...


    I am criticizing the game as far as early access and AI - so I am in fact criticizing the game.

    I am not *hating* the game however.
    I am not saying the game is *bad*

    For some reason on forums - any criticism immediately leads to "hater" - it's crazy.

    As I said before I have harsh criticism for many things in life that I love. You can be critical without hating stuff, and without thinking it's bad.

    I think there's a mistaken belief that the only way to support something and love something is to have zero criticism about it.

    I think that's a lie - it's totally normal to see downsides and have criticism and still love stuff regardless.
    No.  You continue to make that false equivalency.   Other people have TRIED the game and disliked it, stated so on these very forums, and not gotten any grief.  See the post 3 above yours for an example.  That is quite different from not playing a game (even when offered to be given a free copy), spending your time searching Reddit and Youtube for videos of people who have found an exploit or playing in godmode and then pretending that gives from credibility to your criticism.   

    I criticize games all the time.  Lets be honest 95% of the time.  But most of that is either for a game that I have in fact tried (Crowfall, CU, etc...) or games that NOBODY has tried (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, etc...).  I do not think I have ever tried to watch exploit videos for a game with 3.5M players (96% positive reviews) and tried to rationalize a critique of the game off that.  

    What you are trying to rationalize is the equivalent of doing a film critique based off of a parody review of a trailer...  for a released movie that you refuse to see even when offered for free.






    How would 1st hand experience change this - I've watched many streams and videos - I can guarantee that even when this launches (whenever that is) - unless they fix the AI - I will have the same complaint.

     
    As I explained... I give you a copy.  You come play.  You show me how to do all the stuff you saw in the video, without cheats, exploits or anything else.  You start fresh on the server and show me how poor the AI is by abusing it for me.

    You refuse to do that because you KNOW that when you enter the game, even though you watched all these videos that theoretically spoiled the game, you cannot replicate what they show.  You will die.  Then you will die.  Then you will die.

    And then if that happened, maybe you would be forced to admit that the AI was good enough for the game to present a challenge.

    So of course, you will avoid that at all costs, sit on the sidelines and live vicariously through staged videos of exploiters.

    Seriously.  You, a gamer coming in with all the edge of having watched these videos for weeks should have zero problem right?  Come demonstrate it.  The offer is open for the rest of tonight.  Then we can watch the videos of your exploits together.  Heck.. I will even try and livestream it on Discord so everyone can watch live and see you back up what you say.



    Come on man - all those videos - where people build structures above bonemass and just plink him down - what those are fake videos?

    People kiting Trolls and sniping them with arrows - fake?

    People killng the first boss by dodging AoE lightning attacks and just meleeing him? Fake too?

    this whole premise you are setting up where I would come in without ever playing the game to show how stuff is done is just pointless.


    How about after launch - let me practice for a few days - and then I'll show you first hand - I am totally down with that.

    But to deny that videos I've linked are fake is just utter shit - they are real - I can link another 50 videos that show how bad AI is in Valheim and how it's ridiculously easy to exploit - why isn't that valid? because it's not me but someone else playing - that makes it somehow "invalid"?

    It's absurd 

    Tell you what - go watch those videos - and then try it yourself - see if you can pull it off - I bet you can do the same stuff -because it's real

    You don't need me to show that - try first hand
  • TheAmirTheAmir Member UncommonPosts: 483
    I refunded :) that's what I think of it.

    image
  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,955
    remsleep said:
    Splattr said:
    remsleep said:

    the only criticism of Valhiem is the AI - and that doesn't mean that the game is "bad" and that I don't like the game - which again people are jumping to this conclusion for some strange reason.


    I asked you before but either you avoided it or I missed your response.  Can you list the current online games that have fully functional and unexploitable AI?  Bonus for one that costs a one time $20 price.
    Whether other games have fully functional and unexploitable AI has no bearing on Valheim. Even if every other game had worse AI, that still wouldn't make Valheim's AI good, just better. 

    As an analogy, I present you a wonderful pile of crap. I tell you the crap smells bad, and you fire back at me asking me to produce a pile of crap that doesn't smell bad. No matter what other piles of crap are smelling like, mine still stinks. It might be the least smelly pile of crap ever made but it still stinks.

    That doesn't mean my pile of crap is worthless. Maybe the other qualities of my pile make it good. Size, consistency, color, how well it spreads. There's plenty of reasons my pile of crap is good, it's smell isn't one of them. 

    Now, I'm also not saying that Valheim's AI sucks. I haven't played enough of it to make that conclusion. And I am really upset that I had to come in on the same side as remsleep on this one. It made me throw up just a little bit in my mouth. :p


    No... that misses the point.   If your only criticism of a game is the feature (AI) that is pretty much on par with 99.999% of other released online games... then that's really not a very fair critique is it?   Thats my point.  Is it really any worse than it's peers?  Heck no.  Sure you can mention it... but to seek out exploit videos made in godmode and then post like it's far substandard is just an attempt to be very misleading. 

    IMHO AI in EVERY game is pathetic.  In games that have made billions of dollars, you can walk to the "Throne room" and "Pull" the king's guards one at a time and slaughter them in a hallway.  If by some chance they see you, just run away and they will eventually just walk back to their dumb position of standing around, regardless of whether Johnny the guard is now dead on the floor.  I argue constantly that once we get a reasonable AI in games.. PvP becomes irrelevant because the NPCs will be smart enough that you cant tell the difference.  We arent anywhere near there yet... and expecting that level of AI from a $20 survival game is just not a reasonable expectation IMHO.




    Your entire excuse for poor AI boils down to:

    1. It's a $20 - what do you expect - it's going to be crap
    2. Every other game has bad AI 


    Not sure if you realize this - but this does not in fact refute that Valheim has bad AI - in fact it supports it.

    So you agree that AI is in fact lacking in Valheim - and your entire problem with me telling you that AI is bad - because I haven't played it 1st hand.

    it's ridiculous, don't you see - that you are actually on the same page with me as far as AI being poor.

    We agree on this - your only issue is that I am saying this from 2nd hand experience - you refuse to acknowledge that what I've been saying all along is true for some reason, just because I haven't played it.

    Pretend that I've played it - and I am telling you that AI is bad - would you agree with me then?




    See prior post.  Lets stop the games.  Come play.  I will stream it.  You can show the world and put this to bed.



    No why don't you try to replicate the same yourself - stream that - I know you can do it.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    Torval said:
    remsleep said:
    A speedrun of a seed where they have seen the map and already played it through and know each boss location?  WTF good is that.  Thats like saying you can read the LOTR in 2 minutes by just jumping to the final chapter.

    Give it up.  You keep positing random stuff you find on the internet and to those of us that play the game it is absolutely batshit bonkers silly.

    All speedruns are batshit bonkers silly by nature.

    Which is strange that you keep bringing them up and using it as metric to criticize the game. Quite puzzling.
    Queue the "I wasn't criticizing the game" routine...


    I am criticizing the game as far as early access and AI - so I am in fact criticizing the game.

    I am not *hating* the game however.
    I am not saying the game is *bad*

    For some reason on forums - any criticism immediately leads to "hater" - it's crazy.

    As I said before I have harsh criticism for many things in life that I love. You can be critical without hating stuff, and without thinking it's bad.

    I think there's a mistaken belief that the only way to support something and love something is to have zero criticism about it.

    I think that's a lie - it's totally normal to see downsides and have criticism and still love stuff regardless.
    No.  You continue to make that false equivalency.   Other people have TRIED the game and disliked it, stated so on these very forums, and not gotten any grief.  See the post 3 above yours for an example.  That is quite different from not playing a game (even when offered to be given a free copy), spending your time searching Reddit and Youtube for videos of people who have found an exploit or playing in godmode and then pretending that gives from credibility to your criticism.   

    I criticize games all the time.  Lets be honest 95% of the time.  But most of that is either for a game that I have in fact tried (Crowfall, CU, etc...) or games that NOBODY has tried (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, etc...).  I do not think I have ever tried to watch exploit videos for a game with 3.5M players (96% positive reviews) and tried to rationalize a critique of the game off that.  

    What you are trying to rationalize is the equivalent of doing a film critique based off of a parody review of a trailer...  for a released movie that you refuse to see even when offered for free.






    How would 1st hand experience change this - I've watched many streams and videos - I can guarantee that even when this launches (whenever that is) - unless they fix the AI - I will have the same complaint.

     
    As I explained... I give you a copy.  You come play.  You show me how to do all the stuff you saw in the video, without cheats, exploits or anything else.  You start fresh on the server and show me how poor the AI is by abusing it for me.

    You refuse to do that because you KNOW that when you enter the game, even though you watched all these videos that theoretically spoiled the game, you cannot replicate what they show.  You will die.  Then you will die.  Then you will die.

    And then if that happened, maybe you would be forced to admit that the AI was good enough for the game to present a challenge.

    So of course, you will avoid that at all costs, sit on the sidelines and live vicariously through staged videos of exploiters.

    Seriously.  You, a gamer coming in with all the edge of having watched these videos for weeks should have zero problem right?  Come demonstrate it.  The offer is open for the rest of tonight.  Then we can watch the videos of your exploits together.  Heck.. I will even try and livestream it on Discord so everyone can watch live and see you back up what you say.



    Come on man - all those videos - where people build structures above bonemass and just plink him down - what those are fake videos?

    People kiting Trolls and sniping them with arrows - fake?

    this whole premise you are setting up where I would come in without ever playing the game to show how stuff is done is just pointless.


    How about after launch - let me practice for a few days - and then I'll show you first hand - I am totally down with that.

    But to deny that videos I've linked are fake is just utter shit - they are real - I can link another 50 videos that show how bad AI is in Valheim and how it's ridiculously easy to exploit - why isn't that valid? because it's not me but someone else playing - that makes it somehow "invalid"?

    It's absurd 
    No that’s the point.  You are watching what other people have done over the last month(or however long it’s out) and using cumulative knowledge to try and find ways to exploit the game and say Ah Ha!

    You SHOULD be a new player, without having looked up exploit videos our scoured Reddit for answers.  THAT is the state you should be judging the game from.  

    If you join a server right now, even having “cheated” by studying all these videos.  You will still die... and die... and die.  To this same AI that you mock.  

    Scouring videos and Reddit for ways to “beat” the AI is a ridiculous cheapening of the experience.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GG4LIFEGG4LIFE Member UncommonPosts: 20
    200 hours and can’t stop playing. Amazing game and the $20 price tag makes it all that much sweeter. Let the haters hate. Better then any mmo right now!
    Slapshot1188Asm0deusTacticalZombehAsheram
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    TheAmir said:
    I refunded :) that's what I think of it.
    Hey... you are the 4%.  Nothing wrong with that.  People think I'm crazy because I can't stand even the smell of coffee.  I'm probably the 1% there... I think all the coffee people are nuts.

    bobbymcswanson

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,955
    edited February 23
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    Torval said:
    remsleep said:
    A speedrun of a seed where they have seen the map and already played it through and know each boss location?  WTF good is that.  Thats like saying you can read the LOTR in 2 minutes by just jumping to the final chapter.

    Give it up.  You keep positing random stuff you find on the internet and to those of us that play the game it is absolutely batshit bonkers silly.

    All speedruns are batshit bonkers silly by nature.

    Which is strange that you keep bringing them up and using it as metric to criticize the game. Quite puzzling.
    Queue the "I wasn't criticizing the game" routine...


    I am criticizing the game as far as early access and AI - so I am in fact criticizing the game.

    I am not *hating* the game however.
    I am not saying the game is *bad*

    For some reason on forums - any criticism immediately leads to "hater" - it's crazy.

    As I said before I have harsh criticism for many things in life that I love. You can be critical without hating stuff, and without thinking it's bad.

    I think there's a mistaken belief that the only way to support something and love something is to have zero criticism about it.

    I think that's a lie - it's totally normal to see downsides and have criticism and still love stuff regardless.
    No.  You continue to make that false equivalency.   Other people have TRIED the game and disliked it, stated so on these very forums, and not gotten any grief.  See the post 3 above yours for an example.  That is quite different from not playing a game (even when offered to be given a free copy), spending your time searching Reddit and Youtube for videos of people who have found an exploit or playing in godmode and then pretending that gives from credibility to your criticism.   

    I criticize games all the time.  Lets be honest 95% of the time.  But most of that is either for a game that I have in fact tried (Crowfall, CU, etc...) or games that NOBODY has tried (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, etc...).  I do not think I have ever tried to watch exploit videos for a game with 3.5M players (96% positive reviews) and tried to rationalize a critique of the game off that.  

    What you are trying to rationalize is the equivalent of doing a film critique based off of a parody review of a trailer...  for a released movie that you refuse to see even when offered for free.






    How would 1st hand experience change this - I've watched many streams and videos - I can guarantee that even when this launches (whenever that is) - unless they fix the AI - I will have the same complaint.

     
    As I explained... I give you a copy.  You come play.  You show me how to do all the stuff you saw in the video, without cheats, exploits or anything else.  You start fresh on the server and show me how poor the AI is by abusing it for me.

    You refuse to do that because you KNOW that when you enter the game, even though you watched all these videos that theoretically spoiled the game, you cannot replicate what they show.  You will die.  Then you will die.  Then you will die.

    And then if that happened, maybe you would be forced to admit that the AI was good enough for the game to present a challenge.

    So of course, you will avoid that at all costs, sit on the sidelines and live vicariously through staged videos of exploiters.

    Seriously.  You, a gamer coming in with all the edge of having watched these videos for weeks should have zero problem right?  Come demonstrate it.  The offer is open for the rest of tonight.  Then we can watch the videos of your exploits together.  Heck.. I will even try and livestream it on Discord so everyone can watch live and see you back up what you say.



    Come on man - all those videos - where people build structures above bonemass and just plink him down - what those are fake videos?

    People kiting Trolls and sniping them with arrows - fake?

    this whole premise you are setting up where I would come in without ever playing the game to show how stuff is done is just pointless.


    How about after launch - let me practice for a few days - and then I'll show you first hand - I am totally down with that.

    But to deny that videos I've linked are fake is just utter shit - they are real - I can link another 50 videos that show how bad AI is in Valheim and how it's ridiculously easy to exploit - why isn't that valid? because it's not me but someone else playing - that makes it somehow "invalid"?

    It's absurd 
    No that’s the point.  You are watching what other people have done over the last month(or however long it’s out) and using cumulative knowledge to try and find ways to exploit the game and say Ah Ha!

    You SHOULD be a new player, without having looked up exploit videos our scoured Reddit for answers.  THAT is the state you should be judging the game from.  

    If you join a server right now, even having “cheated” by studying all these videos.  You will still die... and die... and die.  To this same AI that you mock.  

    Scouring videos and Reddit for ways to “beat” the AI is a ridiculous cheapening of the experience.



    This is the most ridiculous thing yet - I should judge the game's AI based on total noob experience???

    I mean your point would be to take a total noob who has never played the game and record them dying because they don't know the basic systems and how stuff works?

    And this would somehow prove to you that AI is not crap?

    This is a joke right?

    And somehow magically 2 weeks later after you learn ins and outs of the game - and if at that point AI is too dumb - that doesn't count anymore as "poor AI"


    The game has poor AI - nothing will change that, that's just a fact - it doesn't make the game "crap" or bad, but we are dealing with shit AI regardless.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    remsleep said:
    Torval said:
    remsleep said:
    A speedrun of a seed where they have seen the map and already played it through and know each boss location?  WTF good is that.  Thats like saying you can read the LOTR in 2 minutes by just jumping to the final chapter.

    Give it up.  You keep positing random stuff you find on the internet and to those of us that play the game it is absolutely batshit bonkers silly.

    All speedruns are batshit bonkers silly by nature.

    Which is strange that you keep bringing them up and using it as metric to criticize the game. Quite puzzling.
    Queue the "I wasn't criticizing the game" routine...


    I am criticizing the game as far as early access and AI - so I am in fact criticizing the game.

    I am not *hating* the game however.
    I am not saying the game is *bad*

    For some reason on forums - any criticism immediately leads to "hater" - it's crazy.

    As I said before I have harsh criticism for many things in life that I love. You can be critical without hating stuff, and without thinking it's bad.

    I think there's a mistaken belief that the only way to support something and love something is to have zero criticism about it.

    I think that's a lie - it's totally normal to see downsides and have criticism and still love stuff regardless.
    No.  You continue to make that false equivalency.   Other people have TRIED the game and disliked it, stated so on these very forums, and not gotten any grief.  See the post 3 above yours for an example.  That is quite different from not playing a game (even when offered to be given a free copy), spending your time searching Reddit and Youtube for videos of people who have found an exploit or playing in godmode and then pretending that gives from credibility to your criticism.   

    I criticize games all the time.  Lets be honest 95% of the time.  But most of that is either for a game that I have in fact tried (Crowfall, CU, etc...) or games that NOBODY has tried (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, etc...).  I do not think I have ever tried to watch exploit videos for a game with 3.5M players (96% positive reviews) and tried to rationalize a critique of the game off that.  

    What you are trying to rationalize is the equivalent of doing a film critique based off of a parody review of a trailer...  for a released movie that you refuse to see even when offered for free.






    How would 1st hand experience change this - I've watched many streams and videos - I can guarantee that even when this launches (whenever that is) - unless they fix the AI - I will have the same complaint.

     
    As I explained... I give you a copy.  You come play.  You show me how to do all the stuff you saw in the video, without cheats, exploits or anything else.  You start fresh on the server and show me how poor the AI is by abusing it for me.

    You refuse to do that because you KNOW that when you enter the game, even though you watched all these videos that theoretically spoiled the game, you cannot replicate what they show.  You will die.  Then you will die.  Then you will die.

    And then if that happened, maybe you would be forced to admit that the AI was good enough for the game to present a challenge.

    So of course, you will avoid that at all costs, sit on the sidelines and live vicariously through staged videos of exploiters.

    Seriously.  You, a gamer coming in with all the edge of having watched these videos for weeks should have zero problem right?  Come demonstrate it.  The offer is open for the rest of tonight.  Then we can watch the videos of your exploits together.  Heck.. I will even try and livestream it on Discord so everyone can watch live and see you back up what you say.



    Come on man - all those videos - where people build structures above bonemass and just plink him down - what those are fake videos?

    People kiting Trolls and sniping them with arrows - fake?

    this whole premise you are setting up where I would come in without ever playing the game to show how stuff is done is just pointless.


    How about after launch - let me practice for a few days - and then I'll show you first hand - I am totally down with that.

    But to deny that videos I've linked are fake is just utter shit - they are real - I can link another 50 videos that show how bad AI is in Valheim and how it's ridiculously easy to exploit - why isn't that valid? because it's not me but someone else playing - that makes it somehow "invalid"?

    It's absurd 
    No that’s the point.  You are watching what other people have done over the last month(or however long it’s out) and using cumulative knowledge to try and find ways to exploit the game and say Ah Ha!

    You SHOULD be a new player, without having looked up exploit videos our scoured Reddit for answers.  THAT is the state you should be judging the game from.  

    If you join a server right now, even having “cheated” by studying all these videos.  You will still die... and die... and die.  To this same AI that you mock.  

    Scouring videos and Reddit for ways to “beat” the AI is a ridiculous cheapening of the experience.



    This is the most ridiculous thing yet - I should judge the game's AI based on total noob experience???

    I mean your point would be to take a total noob who has never played the game and record them dying because they don't know the basic systems and how stuff works?

    And this would somehow prove to you that AI is not crap?

    This is a joke right?

    And somehow magically 2 weeks later after you learn ins and outs of the game - and if at that point AI is too dumb - that doesn't count anymore as "poor AI"


    The game has poor AI - nothing will change that, that's just a fact - it doesn't make the game "crap" or bad, but we are dealing with shit AI regardless.

    No.. its the concept that playing the game naturally should be how you judge it.  Not having compiled all the exploits that the world has discovered over a month.  As soon as you start "cheating" you have ruined the game.  Is that so hard to understand?  And yes... looking every advantage up on a forum or watching exploit videos is cheating...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,955
    Slapshot1188 said:No.. its the concept that playing the game naturally should be how you judge it.  Not having compiled all the exploits that the world has discovered over a month.  As soon as you start "cheating" you have ruined the game.  Is that so hard to understand?  And yes... looking every advantage up on a forum or watching exploit videos is cheating...


    How did you move goal posts from "bad AI" to "cheating by watching videos that show tactics"?

    If the game has poor AI - it has poor AI no matter if you watch videos or not. 

    This is not something that changes at all.
    Slapshot1188
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,959
    Children!
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 4,977
    That's insane!

    Is it THAT good?  I mean the price helps boost sales and numbers but damn son.
  • G3NexisG3Nexis Member UncommonPosts: 77

    aivarioha said:

    it is a terrible game, there is no one world when you could come an play. You need to have a group of people to play it.



    I played this with friends and solo and it is 100% playable either way...

    Sorry you have no friends and suck at playing games with any level of difficulty... lawl
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,754
    That's insane!

    Is it THAT good?  I mean the price helps boost sales and numbers but damn son.
    It is that good.
    An out of nowhere surprise for many.
    Very immersive and addictive experience.
    Highly recommended 
    Asm0deusTacticalZombehlahnmirTorvalkitarad

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    Had my first real bug today.

    Logged in and was just doing some organizing in a base with a friend while waiting for another to login.  I stepped through a portal to go to our main base and instantly got a message saying I had died.  Then I was stuck at the swirling portal screen.  I had read that some people lost their characters if the just shut the game down so I waited and waited.  My friend used the same portal with no issues.  

    Finally I gave up and had to shut it down.  When I logged back in I was on my bed in the main base (destination portal) and had all my items and skills.  Breathing a sigh of relief I go out to our Portal Chamber and see a tombstone in front of the portal back to the first base.  It’s mine, and it contained all my items... in duplicate.  

    Now we didn’t need the weapons and armor but I will admit that doubling my stack of Serpent Stew was nice and I did grab the extra stack :)


    TorvalAsheram

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 4,977
    That's insane!

    Is it THAT good?  I mean the price helps boost sales and numbers but damn son.
    It is that good.
    An out of nowhere surprise for many.
    Very immersive and addictive experience.
    Highly recommended 
    I still need to finish subnautica as I'm not a big survival player.  But I'll get it eventually.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,613
    Asheramkitarad
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,754
    That's insane!

    Is it THAT good?  I mean the price helps boost sales and numbers but damn son.
    It is that good.
    An out of nowhere surprise for many.
    Very immersive and addictive experience.
    Highly recommended 
    I still need to finish subnautica as I'm not a big survival player.  But I'll get it eventually.
    Subnautica is great too. I really enjoyed that as well. I have not played the second one yet but plan to. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,355
    That's insane!

    Is it THAT good?  I mean the price helps boost sales and numbers but damn son.
    It is that good.
    An out of nowhere surprise for many.
    Very immersive and addictive experience.
    Highly recommended 
    I still need to finish subnautica as I'm not a big survival player.  But I'll get it eventually.
    Subnautica is great too. I really enjoyed that as well. I have not played the second one yet but plan to. 

    Haven't played it fully through yet only a couple hours, I am waiting to get VR to play it that way.
    blueturtle13

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 2,049
    Had my first real bug today.

    Logged in and was just doing some organizing in a base with a friend while waiting for another to login.  I stepped through a portal to go to our main base and instantly got a message saying I had died.  Then I was stuck at the swirling portal screen.  I had read that some people lost their characters if the just shut the game down so I waited and waited.  My friend used the same portal with no issues.  

    Finally I gave up and had to shut it down.  When I logged back in I was on my bed in the main base (destination portal) and had all my items and skills.  Breathing a sigh of relief I go out to our Portal Chamber and see a tombstone in front of the portal back to the first base.  It’s mine, and it contained all my items... in duplicate.  

    Now we didn’t need the weapons and armor but I will admit that doubling my stack of Serpent Stew was nice and I did grab the extra stack :)


    My whole group has had their entire inventory duped at least once, and I have had my stuff just disappear twice. I've also had a few CTD and every time I spawn back in at my bed with everything I had plus things I had from hours ago.

    I have a feeling it's linked to the desync that's present on dedicated servers atm. With enough stuff built in an area the lag and desync becomes so bad. You'll be unable to open doors, or a specific chest, yet able to open the chest next to it. I hope they can get it ironed out soon.

    Also, on the topic of AI and difficulty. If someone wants to see difficult in this game, get 7 people in the same small area, clear cutting and building a small town. Even better if there are a few troll caves, burial grounds and other biomes nearby. Just watch the 2 star trolls and dwarfs roll in. Have fun with the draugr attacks, goblin patrols, drake swarms, imps lighting everything on fire, and the skeleton raids with 40 mobs coming at you.

    We've pretty well abandoned what's left of that town now.
    Asheram
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,121
    remsleep said:
    Slapshot1188 said:No.. its the concept that playing the game naturally should be how you judge it.  Not having compiled all the exploits that the world has discovered over a month.  As soon as you start "cheating" you have ruined the game.  Is that so hard to understand?  And yes... looking every advantage up on a forum or watching exploit videos is cheating...


    How did you move goal posts from "bad AI" to "cheating by watching videos that show tactics"?

    If the game has poor AI - it has poor AI no matter if you watch videos or not. 

    This is not something that changes at all.
    I do expect you to turn up in every. single. game thread from this point on though and condemn its AI. Since every game has bad AI and it is worth mentioning over and over again for Valheim it is only logical to do it for every other game from now on. I mean, its fair criticism and all. Or the time you need to cheat/speedrun it, or how difficult it is by playing the games systems instead of the actual game. Or how much content there is when you skip 90% of it

    Lets see how many games end up being good when you apply these standards, here’s a hint, none. And even better, you don’t have to play ANY of these games, you can just make up your mind by reading reviews or watching videos. Not all of them though, just a select view that support a certain angle. 

    The fact that we are even discussing this is ridiculous, its like a clown telling a brain surgeon he is doing a bad job because he has watched the first three seasons of Greys Anatomy. We own the game, we play it, extensively even. We know what it is and isn’t.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Jean-Luc_PicardAsheramBrainySlapshot1188FrodoFraginskitarad
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 4,693
    Damn, I am starting to wonder if remsleep was bullied by Valheim devs for his lunch money as a kid. He is in every thread and even opened one of his own, its like a unhealthy obsession IMHO.
    Has he even spent the entry fee that's less than dinner and movie? Does he think he is saving some poor schmuck some pennies? 
    Jean-Luc_PicardBrainySlapshot1188GG4LIFE
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,798
    Asheram said:
    Damn, I am starting to wonder if remsleep was bullied by Valheim devs for his lunch money as a kid. He is in every thread and even opened one of his own, its like a unhealthy obsession IMHO.
    Has he even spent the entry fee that's less than dinner and movie? Does he think he is saving some poor schmuck some pennies? 
    Not only hasn't he paid the entry fee, he turned down an offer to buy it for him.
    Asheram

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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