Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Amazon blew 2 Billion failing to make an MMO.. Soo. If you had 2 Billion, what would you make?

UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,211
edited February 13 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
As the title says, I figured with the recent events of Amazon blowing 2 billion on trying to make a game and failing miserably. If you were given that reign to build your ideal game, what would you make?

Edit:

I fixed the Title.

Added:

Anyone that would take the money and run, no longer has the right to complain about CF/KS game makers taking their money and running, as you have shown you are no better than they are.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Post edited by Ungood on
Gdemami
«134

Comments

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,010
    Not a video game that's for sure........
    UngoodAlBQuirkybcbullyKyleranTorvalScottzervoNycteliosMMOExposedNanfoodle
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,211
    For me.

    First off, I would not try to Re-Invent the Wheel. My approach would simply be using the systems I liked best in the games I have played.

    Ideally, it all needs to blend well, so there is that.

    Character Models / World Artistic Design, would either be GW2, or Crowfall. I admit I really like the Art style of Both, GW2 has a more realistic look, but not too ultra realistic, so it ages well, with Crowfall having a more Claymation style, and thus also ages beautifully, which to me is very important for an MMO.

    Open World: I love how GW2 handles Open World, with Dynamic Events, World Bosses, Hearts, Vista, POI's, just all of it, is truly amazing, and mixed with the down leveling, one of the best systems I have ever played. So this would be a must for me. However, I love the fully destructable worlds of Trove as well, and while I am not sure how I would want to mix those two ideas, I would in fact want to mix them.

    Home/Guild Instance. Trove hands down had the best system for this, with Cornerstones and Club Worlds, allowing players to make whatever they wanted.

    Cosmetic Gear: Gonna be honest, I love GW2 system of a Wardrobe, Dye Channels, etc, where skins are just as valuable as the gear itself. Absolutely loved the whole system of it. The only thing I would try to add/change with this, is putting in Dye Channels for back Items from the Start, and Dye Channels for Weapons.

    Actual gear: I love DDO's system to a point. At it is right now, it has way too many chefs pissing into the pot, and it's just a mess. It would need to be reset, and maybe even worked a bit with GW2's system (Which was very similar to Trove BTW), but ideally, I love how DDO's weapon/armor systems work, with abilities making sense, like Flame Weapons not hurting Flame creatures, and doing Extra Damage to Ice Creatures. Needing special abilities to hit some mobs, like needing Ghost-touch and Ghost-bane to hit Ghosts, and other incorporeal creatures. So, DDO's Weapon/Combat system would be the benchmark of where I would be working from. Just cleaned up a lot, and removing a lot of the 'brilliant' ideas that some Dev's had over the years.

    Combat: Again, DDO's combat system is what would be used, just as it is.

    UI: I like how clean GW2's UI was. I like the Utility of GW2's UI, so it would have to be a slight mix of the two.

    Banking and Inventory: I would say, mainly GW2's, which was similar to Trove's system, but GW2 gave independent character inventory, unlike Troves single shared inventory, which would be needed in a game with DDO's gear system.

    Loadouts: I liked GW2's Loadout system, it was similar to Warhammer40K, which I loved their Loadout system. But since I would be using DDO's character creation system, I would only adopt GW2's gear loadouts. The Character Loadout, might come later, but that would need to be something for an expansion, as I am not even sure how that would work with a system as complex as DDO. But, gear is easy to understand and I would put that in.

    Auction House: GW2. Just really intuitive and easy to use.

    Mounts: Ok, this is another fun one. Personally, I loved Troves system of having various kinds of Mounts, from Land Mounts, to Flying Mounts, to Ships, and Raid Riders, some with special abilities like shooting cannons, or being able to harvest, or move through terrain like their Bull-Dozer, that was just awesome. I also liked how GW2 made their mounts more platforming like. So, I suppose a way to mix both those styles together would be cool. I would want to put in some kind of mounted Combat, which neither game had, but it is something I would have liked to look into, but that would be something I would want to invest in for an expansion, not for a launch.

    Side Quests: Ok, GW2, with all their collections and things you could do, was great, overwhelming to a huge point, but also something fun to work with. I enjoyed their whole mount collection process and how they put in those systems to get people to play the game, return to older content, explore new content, and it always felt like their was at least one more thing to do.

    Class: hands down DDO. DDO's character building system is decades ahead of anything anyone else put out, one of the deepest most complex systems anyone could ask for, but also, simple enough to just easily get.

    Grouping: Well, I would go with DDO's system on that one, it's pretty easy to use and understand.

    Hirelings: DDO.

    Mini's: Trove had the best system for Mini's 

    Crafting: Ok, world building, gardening, and those kinds of things. Trove, hands down. Just epic!. Weapon/Gear: GW2, but DDO has made some really good changes to their system as well. This would be a issue that would need to be worked out. Ideally, the system needs to fit the gear, and think with a fresh start gear system, using DDO's gear system, would make using their crafting system workable.

    That's about where I am at right now.

    I think with 2 Billion, I would be able to pull this off very easy.
    BruceYeeAlBQuirkytzervoGdemamiIsilithTehroth
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,609
    I agree with Theo. Gamers are the most notorious group of complainers I seen yet. Delay the game, you get slammed. Make it "incomplete" and they'll still roast you. They seem to demand perfection while wanting it all for free.

    On the plus side, most will buy almost anything while complaining all the way, so you will have lots of box/digital sales.

    The game I would make for me and my tastes will not sell at all well in today's market. I'd rather buy an island somewhere :)
    UngoodtzervoSovrathYashaXMendel

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,207
    I will make an online casino game.
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • RemaliRemali Member RarePosts: 597
    I would use the 100mil to make my mmo as a hobby and with the rest i would be set for life same for my children and grandchildren
    Success or failure of my mmo would be a non factor I would just spend my time doing it trying mostly to have fun
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,207
    Remali said:
    I would use the 100mil to make my mmo as a hobby and with the rest i would be set for life same for my children and grandchildren
    Success or failure of my mmo would be a non factor I would just spend my time doing it trying mostly to have fun
    This is why most games failed . Because the one who make them wasn't care about working or not , as they ready get the money .

    They keep dragging the product time so they can milk more money , and then deadline hit , they just jump off the empty poor making ship with all the money . Careless about the ship sink or not .
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 250
    The word you are looking for is blew
    UngoodAlBQuirkyBrainy
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,211
    Quick Note:

    The money is being invested into making a Game, not given to you as a person.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,211
    AlBQuirky said:
    The game I would make for me and my tastes will not sell at all well in today's market. I'd rather buy an island somewhere :)
    Tell me about it anyway.
    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • RemaliRemali Member RarePosts: 597
    iixviiiix said:
    Remali said:
    I would use the 100mil to make my mmo as a hobby and with the rest i would be set for life same for my children and grandchildren
    Success or failure of my mmo would be a non factor I would just spend my time doing it trying mostly to have fun
    This is why most games failed . Because the one who make them wasn't care about working or not , as they ready get the money .

    They keep dragging the product time so they can milk more money , and then deadline hit , they just jump off the empty poor making ship with all the money . Careless about the ship sink or not .
    No they fail because they ask for your money without having the desire to produce anything 
    As long as they get paid forever everything is good they dont need to deliver
    I never asked for anyones money for my hobby mmo but it would be foolish to put every penny i have into making a game
    iixviiiixGdemamiAlBQuirky
  • RemaliRemali Member RarePosts: 597
    Ungood said:
    Quick Note:

    The money is being invested into making a Game, not given to you as a person.
    If that is the case i would make a copy/blend of BDO with rifts pve of the first era before the expansion.
    Mostly the open world invasions/rifts and some o the dungeons but without so much weight in them
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,241
    edited February 7
    Buy a small offshore island, build a secret lair, and start working on my plan for total world domination.



    SandmanjwTheocritusNycteliosAlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • tzervotzervo Member RarePosts: 945
    edited February 7
    I would put it into a remake of Elite:Dangerous - keeping all the brilliant visuals and sounds, and the BGS, and changing completely the shallow game loops on top of them. Also possibly going for a less procedural-y approach with fewer accessible systems but with more interesting hand (dev) crafted locations, space legs and base building.

    Alternatively, a remake of BDO minus the RNG gear upgrades, a proper polished UI and substituting the AFK mechanics with different ones that let you switch off your PC, and NPC dialogs with sentences in proper english that actually make sense.

    Alternatively alternatively, I would give the money to Clapfoot studio which made one of my favorite MMOs of all time to put it into tech and expanding Foxhole even more. Now that I am thinking about it, make it the first option. The best option is rewarding a studio that already gave you countless hours of fun so that they can potentially repeat that.
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member RarePosts: 945
    edited February 7
    AlBQuirky said:
    I agree with Theo. Gamers are the most notorious group of complainers I seen yet. Delay the game, you get slammed. Make it "incomplete" and they'll still roast you. They seem to demand perfection while wanting it all for free.

    On the plus side, most will buy almost anything while complaining all the way, so you will have lots of box/digital sales.
    And even if you give them what they ask they will still complain because they realize it was not what they wanted - or just because :P
    TheocritusUngoodSovrathAlBQuirky
  • fineflufffinefluff Member UncommonPosts: 235
    edited February 7
    I would buy the rights to a bunch of old shutdown mmos and bring them online again. Some that I can think of off the top my head are Asheron's Call 1 and 2, Star Wars Galaxies, Warhammer Online, Vanguard. There are probably other goods ones too. I never played any of these games, but I think it would make a lot of people happy and be fun to do.

    I would make changes of course. I would update the game engines to utilize the latest technology and add high quality graphics while staying true the original art style. There would be some changes to the game design too.

    Making changes would be controversial, but the goal would be to remain true to the original vision of the game while making adjustments so that all aspects of the game "work" and have a purpose. For example, there are probably some mechanics or systems that were ignored by players because they were useless or a waste of time. It could also be that some aspects of the game interfere with the pacing and social experience in a negative way. Some game systems may no longer even be feasible with the way people play today (mass communication and access to information). Some changes will probably be necessary.

    The games will not be released on their first or last patch, but as something that brings out the best of what they were.

    There seems to be a consensus among players of when a game was in it's "prime" and which updates "ruined it." I would have an experienced and knowledgeable team of designers and researchers look into what made each game great, where it's potential lies, what made people love them, and what were the highs and lows over the game's lifespan. This team would ideally include people who worked on the original game and people who played it both extensively and also casually. Then, we would make changes to the games to correct the "flaws" while still remaining true to the spirit of what made the game great. There is subjectivity here, but I think the keywords we would keep in mind are : player agency, freedom, responsibility, consequence, and connection.

    Since all these would be released under our company we could offer an all access subscription or maybe a $10 - $15 subscription for one game and then $5 extra for every additional game. There would be no cash shop, not a even cosmetic one, but some services may be offered with limitations (e.g., name change).

    These mmos would be released as "complete" barring any fixes that need to be made after launch. We wouldn't want to keep updating them and "mess them up" again. But then again, maybe players would like content updates even to these old games. Maybe there would be a team of content designers for each game to add events and regular updates. GMs would also be hired to play a prominent role of banning boters and interacting with players. This could include role-playing or large scale PVE and PVP events.

    Or maybe instead of doing all that, I just buy the rights and assets and make it all open source and let everyone else take care of it. :lol:
    Post edited by finefluff on
    ScottzervoUngoodGdemamiAlBQuirkyLaazRockit
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,556
    Ungood said:
    Quick Note:

    The money is being invested into making a Game, not given to you as a person.
    Noes!
    AlBQuirky

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 4,986
    I'm sick of developers promising revolutionary AI, dynamic worlds and the like.  So if I was able to throw $2billion wherever I wanted it would be into a studio whose focus is developing a truly revolutionary AI engine.  Something to actually start bringing NPC behavior much closer to human behavior.

    Otherwise, I'd spend it on MMO's for properties that I love that would otherwise never be made.

    There really is no perfect MMO for me as it's been stale for me for every MMO released after WOW.  GW2 dynamic events were a complete bait and switch.  

    The only cancelled MMO I miss is Marvel Heroes and that game certainly had tons of issues of its own.  But it did fill a nice little niche that was fun to return to from time to time.

    UngoodGdemamiAlBQuirkyMendel
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,556
    edited February 7
    RvR like DAOC
    Graphics at least as good as BDO
    Combat downtime like SWG
    Raids like WoW
    Richness of Lore like ESO
    Following a story like Lotro
    Being the story like AoC and SWTOR
    Open World like any older MMO
    Guild HQ's like CoH
    Housing like AC
    Difficulty Soloing like ESO three months in, difficulty Grouping like Lotro three years in.
    Economy has player sellers and is detailed enough to satisfy crafters.
    Plenty of spaces for roleplaying, which really means open world and interior locations.

    Oh I nearly forgot; subscription only, we need to keep out the riff-raff after all and PC only, I did mention the riff-raff? ;)
    Ungoodfrancis_baudGdemamiAlBQuirkyBrainy

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • Morgenes83Morgenes83 Member UncommonPosts: 212
    World: something seamless like ArcheAge, Vanguard,.... I don't like instanced areas.
    There are teleports but way less than usually. The people should need to travel.
    I liked the original idea from Vanguard where there was a network and you could only travel within certain "lines" and only from Portstone to Portstone.

    Open World content: GW2 all the way but adding some questlines, long quests only, not those stupid short quest hopping. For quick questing/leveling we have the system from GW2, the long ones are for special rewards like mounts, rare weapons,...

    Classes: GW1 style where you can combine 2 classes. 3 like in ArcheAge are to hard to balance.

    Fight system:
    Tab targeting but you can move slowly during long casts like in Vanguard.
    Paired with the system from AoC.

    Skills: We definitely need more non-combat skills in MMOs again. Floating, underwater breathing, travel buffs, night vision, teleport, create food,...
    We also need more non-attack/heal skills like buffs/debuffs, CCs.
    And we need more class diversity which also needs a lot of the next.

    Dungeons: They need to contain mechanics that favour all the different classes. So every class is useful in certain situations and not only the best classes are taken. Maybe even add certain blockers so that a class may not be the best dps wise but it may help to open a shortcut, or certain classes more effective against certain mobs in a dungeon but not all.
    I also like open dungeons. For this they have to be bigger than we are used nowadays.

    Crafting: Vanguard. Heads down. Also with the quests, learning certain styles only on a different continent through a long quest line.

    Art style: GW2 aged really well. I also think ESO aged pretty good although more realistic like GW2. Personally I like the style of ESO more.

    Gear/Items: I love the system from ESO. It favours people returning to old dungeons as even old sets are good. There are always new combinations of sets shifting the meta. I know a lot of people always complain about the current meta there but at least it is shifting and we have to accept that the world today is like this that people find the best combinations and then everyone runs around with it.

    Monetization: GW2/ESO mix. 
    UngoodGdemamiAlBQuirky

    1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO 

    Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon

  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,967
    iixviiiix said:
    I will make an online casino game.
    it already exists - it's called BDO ;)
    iixviiiixAlBQuirky
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,127
    With 2 billion I would probably launch a Kickstarter, let the players fund my project pffft.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    blueturtle13UngoodfinefluffTorvalKyleranAlBQuirky
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • remsleepremsleep Member EpicPosts: 1,967
    edited February 7
    Ungood said:


    I think with 2 Billion, I would be able to pull this off very easy.


    I think you'd be surprised how actually difficult it is - and money is not even the barrier as clearly demonstrated by Amazon and many major internal project failures at Blizzard (Titan) for example who at the time had pretty much the best devs in the world. 

    Pulling off a complex MMO is near impossible - because it's not just a bunch of features and mechanics thrown together - people always have this "a la carte" approach - when the most important thing is getting all features to fit well and make a cohesive game - that is the impossible part as you keep adding more and more features, the cohesiveness of the game starts to fall apart.


    UngoodGdemamiSovrathBabuinixKyleranAlBQuirky
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,127
    remsleep said:
    Ungood said:


    I think with 2 Billion, I would be able to pull this off very easy.


    I think you'd be surprised how actually difficult it is - and money is not even the barrier as clearly demonstrated by Amazon and many major internal project failures at Blizzard (Titan) for example who at the time had pretty much the best devs in the world. 

    Pulling off a complex MMO is near impossible - because it's not just a bunch of features and mechanics thrown together - people always have this "a la carte" approach - when the most important thing is getting all features to fit well and make a cohesive game - that is the impossible part as you keep adding more and more features, the cohesiveness of the game starts to fall apart.


    Chris Roberts and cohorts seem to disagree. They keep piling up piles of tiny details and features before actually presenting anything cohesive. It seems to work, many are fawning over feature 1107.xx without realizing they are still playing a technical demo.

    Then again, they might actually burn through 2 billion before they deliver their Magnus Opus. Easier when its not your own money though.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    UngoodKyleranAlBQuirky
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,380
    is there an article about it?  I'd be surprise somebody spent 2 billion and still aren't able to finish a game.  
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,207
    remsleep said:
    Ungood said:


    I think with 2 Billion, I would be able to pull this off very easy.


    I think you'd be surprised how actually difficult it is - and money is not even the barrier as clearly demonstrated by Amazon and many major internal project failures at Blizzard (Titan) for example who at the time had pretty much the best devs in the world. 

    Pulling off a complex MMO is near impossible - because it's not just a bunch of features and mechanics thrown together - people always have this "a la carte" approach - when the most important thing is getting all features to fit well and make a cohesive game - that is the impossible part as you keep adding more and more features, the cohesiveness of the game starts to fall apart.


    The problem with (Titan) is Blizzard at that time tried to create something new and not copy the trend . Then they finally give up on creation and start to copy the trend and got successed with OW .
    UngoodAlBQuirky
Sign In or Register to comment.