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New Report Details Mismanagement And More Behind The Scenes At Amazon Games Studios | MMORPG.com

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  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    Vrika said:
    cheyane said:
    Wasn't there some lawsuit about Lumberyard and Star Citizen? I recall reading about that.
    The lawsuit was between Crytek and Star Citizen about whether Star Citizen had followed their license agreement with Crytek. Lumberyard was mentioned because Star Citizen is currently licensing Lumberyard, but Amazon/Lumberyard was never part of that lawsuit.

    Also the lawsuit was settled between closed doors so it's unlikely we'll ever hear anything further about it.
    Thanks for the elucidation.
    Ungood
    Chamber of Chains
  • AragoniAragoni Member UncommonPosts: 383
    Explains why they did such a stupid decision when they decided to turn their sandbox MMO into a theme park. While I really doubt the previous iteration of New World would compete with the likes of WoW in player numbers, it was different enough to carve out it's own niche. With the change into a theme park in an attempt to compete with WoW they are just setting themselves up to fail, just like the gazillion previous MMOs that wanted to be the WoW-killer.

    With a sandbox New World it would also guarantee that it would not cannibalize (or be cannibalized by) a future Lord of the Rings-MMO, which I'm sure will be a theme park too.

    Anyway Amazon Game Studios sounds like a shit place to work at. Why a smart guy like Bezos would allow such an incompetent guy like Frazzini to be the head of a potential goldmine, and why he would allow the recruitment of John "Destroyer of Games" Smedley is beyond me.

    This just proves that a studio with no soul will never be successful, no matter how deep the pockets are.
    MustikosGdemami
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 918
    I respect Jason Schreier the journalist, but Jason Schreier the person, not so much.

    Management forcing the studio to use Lumberyard sounds a lot like EA "encouraging" it's studio's to use Frostbite.
    Gdemami

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • kilunkilun Member UncommonPosts: 818

    BruceYee said:



    I don't feel sorry for Amazon. It is the law of the market that bad behavior leads to bad business which leads to bankruptcy or liquidation. This may have been a new venture for them, but you do your due diligence, make a solid and verified business plan and put in the effort to hire qualified and preferably proven employees to oversee that business plan. They should never have hired someone like Smedley and deserve everything they get. Ignorance is unacceptable and stupidity is its own reward.



    Smedley(AGS SD) was added after the initial important hires were made. The people who started the disaster remained in full control destroying everything. Smed sat back letting them do it while collecting that paycheck so he could buy his fine liqueur.

    Honestly, seeing as both EQ's are still going, DCUO is thriving, Daybreak(SOE) just sold for 300 million... AGS would probably be better off with him at the very top.



    I can't stand Smedly, but you are correct. The question it really boils down to is does Amazon want to take their lumps and bruises? I don't think they do, they are looking to put down a massive success and can't figure it out. A sub model with dungeons being made 2-3 times per year for the first 5 years +expansion is what is needed to be a giant. They have the money and can get the manpower, but if they blunder it because they don't want the man at the top to be anyone other than someone who worked their way up.

    I've actually enjoyed a lot of their card games SOE made (both the EQ and SW were decent) and played and will to this day say that the Stargate TCG was one of the best I've ever played and their formula was perfect on the weekly tournaments. Sad they got shutdown, and can't find a link to play it online.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,635
    edited January 31
    Iselin said:
    Make a guy with zero experience making games the head of the games division... what could possibly go wrong?

    With Amazon's resources I'm not sure how they didn't just nab the cream of the crop...

    The cream of the crop are busy trying to fix their own mess at the moment.
    WhiteLantern




  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,598
    On principle we must have Smedley tarred and feathered even if he may not really be the one responsible for this.
    tzervoScotIselinWhiteLanterncheyaneBruceYeeUngood

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Don't worry, I'm sure New World will be great, right guys?!?!?!

    Lol oddly enough, this is giving off Anthem signs....
    Gdemami
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 4,180
    ...

    Management forcing the studio to use Lumberyard sounds a lot like EA "encouraging" it's studio's to use Frostbite.
    This is on point.

    The Frostbite fiasco was called yet people here shurgged it spamming LOL buttons. Mass Effect team spent more time developing tools for third person mechanics than developing the game cause engine main focus was on first person. Jason had a take on it too.

    I tried New World and have the same smell other games have: There are mechanics but they were mashed together without a greater vision. No wonder they went from a survival pvp game into a pve reputation zone grinding game with faction pvp which on paper might work but on reality is just who is in bigger numbers roaming around: the game.
    tzervoGdemami
    Discord ID: Night # 6102
    Current playing: 
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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,441
    Smedley is a talker, pure an simple....Anyone who played EQ knew he was a fraud...People like him talk a great game but don't play a great game....
    Gdemami
  • RidrithRidrith Member RarePosts: 656
    @Bruceyee

    LOL. Yeah, that's exactly what they needed. A group of "idea guys". Those people are a dime a dozen and they're generally totally shit at their jobs because that's all they've got. Ideas. Concepts are easy to come up with, but not having any actual experience beyond that would ensure that the games would have never even come close to fruition.

    Idea guys are the same people who came up with the likes of Greed Monger, Sacrament Online, Chronicles of Elyria, etc.
    tzervoGdemami

  • SylvinstarSylvinstar Member UncommonPosts: 136
    I'm having New World withdrawl atm. I love the game. Hope they release by sometime April or May at the latest.
  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 4,923
    I wonder if this is why those ex rockstar devs making that open world sim game Everywhere switched to unreal engine from lumbaeryard.
    Gdemami
  • Mars_OMGMars_OMG Member EpicPosts: 3,603
    I'm calling "fake news". It's from Bloomberg, not a reliable source.
    IselinYashaXGdemami
    - abandoning social media could possibly save the world.  
    #RestoreTheSnyderVerse 
  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 675
    This goes to show you can't throw money at a game and think it'll be great. Look at New World. Lots of money thrown at it and its dog shit(some may like it but personally I couldn't stand it)
    Gdemami
  • elgenkabolelgenkabol Member UncommonPosts: 42

    BruceYee said:



    I don't feel sorry for Amazon. It is the law of the market that bad behavior leads to bad business which leads to bankruptcy or liquidation. This may have been a new venture for them, but you do your due diligence, make a solid and verified business plan and put in the effort to hire qualified and preferably proven employees to oversee that business plan. They should never have hired someone like Smedley and deserve everything they get. Ignorance is unacceptable and stupidity is its own reward.



    Smedley(AGS SD) was added after the initial important hires were made. The people who started the disaster remained in full control destroying everything. Smed sat back letting them do it while collecting that paycheck so he could buy his fine liqueur.

    Honestly, seeing as both EQ's are still going, DCUO is thriving, Daybreak(SOE) just sold for 300 million... AGS would probably be better off with him at the very top.



    people really need to stop flexing about daybreak and the games under it. They got daybreak for a joke of a price given all the titles/assets they now control with the purchase.

    D an D
    Lord of the rings
    All EQ's
    Planet side
    DCUO
    H1Z1

    Albion onlines company was bought for a little under half that price but for only one title. Even more amusing is the fact that Stillfront bought a casual trivia word game company for more then they spent on Albion online.

    But I agree both smed and khrolan should never been allowed to work on another game after SOE.

    The biggest screw up amazon made was trying to make 5 games at once. They should of focused their resources and time on one instead.
    tzervoGdemami
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    This is a general response to all the Smedley comments...

    Smedley lost Sony a total of 60 million at the time they changed to Daybreak.

    If this news article is accurate then the AGS devs have lost Amazon 2 billion+

    60 million was probably lost within the first few months of AGS being created.

    60 million was lost by Smed over the span of years.

    Pretty sure Amazon would've preferred losing 60 mil over the span of 2-3 years rather than 2 billion+ over 4-6 years but who knows... it's just money, right?

    @Theocritus - A fraud could not have delivered as many games as HE did many of them being played 2 decades later. A fraud could not have made top level agreements with DC, Sony, Lucasarts. You try going to any one of those companies and ask for money or a license and see how far you get. He is many different things to many people but fraud is not one of them. If anything at the time that SOE changed to Daybreak much of that 60 mil was very likely dev pay or projects providing dev pay. A fraudster that takes loses to hurt himself and his image to pay employees isn't one..

    @Ridrith - Why are you assuming everyone here has no experience in the gaming industry? As Ashes of Creation, COE and others have proven you need zero industry experience/knowledge to 'attempt' to make games. That is no different than what AGS has been doing for the past 5 years... 'attempt to make games'. 3/4 of mobile hires are young people with zero industry experience and that is usually their first job.
    Gdemami
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,164
    edited February 1
    Vrika said:
    cheyane said:
    Wasn't there some lawsuit about Lumberyard and Star Citizen? I recall reading about that.
    The lawsuit was between Crytek and Star Citizen about whether Star Citizen had followed their license agreement with Crytek. Lumberyard was mentioned because Star Citizen is currently licensing Lumberyard, but Amazon/Lumberyard was never part of that lawsuit.

    Also the lawsuit was settled between closed doors so it's unlikely we'll ever hear anything further about it.
    I'm not sure it was settled.  The last I remember hearing was that it was shelved by Crytek as they weren't sure that SC would ever be released.  But I could be missing later developments.

    EDIT: It looks like people posted articles on an actual settlement.  I'd say that development solidifies Crytek's initial claims LOL.
    Gdemami
  • Warhawke80Warhawke80 Member RarePosts: 314
    Jeff Grubb and John Smedley steering the ship.....honestly what could go wrong?
    Scot
  • achesomaachesoma Member RarePosts: 1,455

    cheyane said:

    Wasn't there some lawsuit about Lumberyard and Star Citizen? I recall reading about that.



    That was CryEngine. There was a settlement between Crytek and SC.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,630
    achesoma said:

    cheyane said:

    Wasn't there some lawsuit about Lumberyard and Star Citizen? I recall reading about that.



    That was CryEngine. There was a settlement between Crytek and SC.
    Well at least the lawyers are getting paid that's the main thing.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,403
    Iselin said:
    Make a guy with zero experience making games the head of the games division... what could possibly go wrong?
    Probably less than having guys with experience making games but no experience running a company the head of it.   See Crowdfunded MMORPG record for evidence.

    But that's setting the bar low... I agree.

    With Amazon's resources I'm not sure how they didn't just nab the cream of the crop...
    Amazon in their TV and movie production is known for being very stingy with cash and quick to cancel if no profit.  They pay some of the lowest for production teams.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,815
    Horusra said:
    Iselin said:
    Make a guy with zero experience making games the head of the games division... what could possibly go wrong?
    Probably less than having guys with experience making games but no experience running a company the head of it.   See Crowdfunded MMORPG record for evidence.

    But that's setting the bar low... I agree.

    With Amazon's resources I'm not sure how they didn't just nab the cream of the crop...
    Amazon in their TV and movie production is known for being very stingy with cash and quick to cancel if no profit.  They pay some of the lowest for production teams.
    Stingy with cash?  They bought the Lord of the Rings TV rights for $250M and have a 5 season commitment of at least $1B...

    We have different definitions of stingy I guess.

    Sovrathtzervo

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  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,403
    Horusra said:
    Iselin said:
    Make a guy with zero experience making games the head of the games division... what could possibly go wrong?
    Probably less than having guys with experience making games but no experience running a company the head of it.   See Crowdfunded MMORPG record for evidence.

    But that's setting the bar low... I agree.

    With Amazon's resources I'm not sure how they didn't just nab the cream of the crop...
    Amazon in their TV and movie production is known for being very stingy with cash and quick to cancel if no profit.  They pay some of the lowest for production teams.
    Stingy with cash?  They bought the Lord of the Rings TV rights for $250M and have a 5 season commitment of at least $1B...

    We have different definitions of stingy I guess.

    You pick one thing that Bezo's says better be the next Game of Thrones and bring in subs or it is gone.  Also to even get the IP you got to pay big.  That is suppose to be the headline show for Amazon Prime.  Also the 5 season commitment has a lot of conditions on it, including viewership and production within 2 years.  As soon as a show does not cut a profit they end it.  Expanse is an example.  
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,815
    Horusra said:
    Horusra said:
    Iselin said:
    Make a guy with zero experience making games the head of the games division... what could possibly go wrong?
    Probably less than having guys with experience making games but no experience running a company the head of it.   See Crowdfunded MMORPG record for evidence.

    But that's setting the bar low... I agree.

    With Amazon's resources I'm not sure how they didn't just nab the cream of the crop...
    Amazon in their TV and movie production is known for being very stingy with cash and quick to cancel if no profit.  They pay some of the lowest for production teams.
    Stingy with cash?  They bought the Lord of the Rings TV rights for $250M and have a 5 season commitment of at least $1B...

    We have different definitions of stingy I guess.

    You pick one thing that Bezo's says better be the next Game of Thrones and bring in subs or it is gone.  Also to even get the IP you got to pay big.  That is suppose to be the headline show for Amazon Prime.  Also the 5 season commitment has a lot of conditions on it, including viewership and production within 2 years.  As soon as a show does not cut a profit they end it.  Expanse is an example.  
    So you are saying that spending over $10M an Episode for TV shows like Goliath, Man in the High Castle, The Boys, etc... is "stingy"?

    As for The Expanse... they picked it up and gave it a Season 4, 5 and eventually 6...

    We seriously have very different definitions of stingy

    tzervoSovrath

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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