Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Funny trap I often fall into.
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
This is something that's often on my mind but hard to explain so I never bring it up.
Populations of older games:
I'll only play older second generation games because I WANT A REAL MMORPG. It's just a "fact" anything of the last 10 years are NOT MMORPG'S. From FF14 ESO SWTOR and GW2, all crap and not mmorpg's. It's an absolute and will not argue about this.
But the problem with older games are populations. You can't simply hop back into them because their all top heavy and the populations are at the end. Even at lower levels the veteran's are creating alts and can't be bothered with new or returning players.
Sure their are exceptions, but don't count on that.... You'll be playing alone.
Theirs also another avenue where you can go in "head strong" and deeply embrace the veterans, I guess you can say "kiss their ass" and eventually be accepted...... I'll have to admit, it's not a bad idea !...... I also have to admit, I'm too lazy to do that for an older game that I've player before in the past. I can prove this is not a popular way of returning because the veterans often will not except you anyway..... They have seen it many times.
So with this, It feels like a trap with no answer !
Everquest 2,
Did something unique that actually worked with the time-lock-servers, where you start new. It was great, every one was new or starting over. Populations were high at the low end, guilds were being made, it was great.
Problem is..... DON'T STOP !.... Or your back in the trap of older top heavy games.
I was really enjoying this, problem is I stopped for some reason after 30 days. I think it was, I ran out of quest around level 18. I could have asked but did not...... To lazy and game burnout to be honest, my fault.
Now I want beck in. Too late the server moved on I would assume, and don't want to pay a sub to find out. I'm sure I could join a Discord channel and ask, but the game is old anyway. I guess I'm older now, burned out, may not live too long, and subjected to seizures from flash of computers and game.
Staying power with 20 year old games is less and less each time.... It feels like a trap I got myself into.
I bring up my trap because many are also in this trap ..... how do I know this ?...... because the great games are low populations.
I'll fix later, I have to get off the computer.
Populations of older games:
I'll only play older second generation games because I WANT A REAL MMORPG. It's just a "fact" anything of the last 10 years are NOT MMORPG'S. From FF14 ESO SWTOR and GW2, all crap and not mmorpg's. It's an absolute and will not argue about this.
But the problem with older games are populations. You can't simply hop back into them because their all top heavy and the populations are at the end. Even at lower levels the veteran's are creating alts and can't be bothered with new or returning players.
Sure their are exceptions, but don't count on that.... You'll be playing alone.
Theirs also another avenue where you can go in "head strong" and deeply embrace the veterans, I guess you can say "kiss their ass" and eventually be accepted...... I'll have to admit, it's not a bad idea !...... I also have to admit, I'm too lazy to do that for an older game that I've player before in the past. I can prove this is not a popular way of returning because the veterans often will not except you anyway..... They have seen it many times.
So with this, It feels like a trap with no answer !
Everquest 2,
Did something unique that actually worked with the time-lock-servers, where you start new. It was great, every one was new or starting over. Populations were high at the low end, guilds were being made, it was great.
Problem is..... DON'T STOP !.... Or your back in the trap of older top heavy games.
I was really enjoying this, problem is I stopped for some reason after 30 days. I think it was, I ran out of quest around level 18. I could have asked but did not...... To lazy and game burnout to be honest, my fault.
Now I want beck in. Too late the server moved on I would assume, and don't want to pay a sub to find out. I'm sure I could join a Discord channel and ask, but the game is old anyway. I guess I'm older now, burned out, may not live too long, and subjected to seizures from flash of computers and game.
Staying power with 20 year old games is less and less each time.... It feels like a trap I got myself into.
I bring up my trap because many are also in this trap ..... how do I know this ?...... because the great games are low populations.
I'll fix later, I have to get off the computer.
Comments
The idea of starting with a server that gets reset now and then is a good one, I think some of the "classics" do this. But if you play without a guild you throw yourself to the winds of solo fortune, which may or may not blow your way.
So i was in on for example the EQ2 restart,everyone is automatically in a RACE.So then a bunch of bickering begins on how fast the new content would be released so it ends up right back at the normal server stage within a couple months,so what was the point?
Sure i found a guild of friendly people inside ffxi retail servers "ffxi" but still all the population cares about is grinding ques ues for end game gear.Each player wants THEIR specific gear.
I am not playing any game to RACE and there is zero reason for me to game if all i am doing is grinding end game gear.Why so i can wait 6 months maybe a year maybe 2 to grind new end game gear,pffft NOT the way a rpg should be played or designed.
Where is the role playing elements,they do NOT exist in ANY mmorpg.Your character is NOT a living character in ANY mmorpg,all you are is a paper doll waiting to attach items to specific locations on the paper doll.Our charactrs do NOTHING to resemble being a living character and the world does nothing to support it.
I accepted the terribly bad designs for years in hopes over time we would see more,see them improve but that doesn'r make money.Devs make money by creating a SiMPLE yet effective carrot on a stick.That carrot is tiered items and does not need to spend anymore time on any other aspect of the game because this simple formula is working.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MurderHerd
When the game is such that players can out level content how much can really be done to expand that early experience. Whatever you add will be subject to the same limited window of relevance as the low level content already in place.
In such conditions the tendency will be to push characters to the current top as fast as possible as it is the only place where content has enduring relevance.
For all content to have lasting value the game must be designed in a way that players can't outgrow content.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
mmorpgs tend to release with low amount of content, often the inde but also the triple A
I hate to bring up Vanilla WoW beck in 2004 but that was a full game. 6>12 months of content to start, with FREE updates that lasted for years, then eventually lead up to the BC.... even that was reputable in content too. That was many years with a huge world before the downhill slide of Blizzard.
People will argue they can reach level 60 in two weeks, they are few and far. infact many to this day takes months playing at a relaxed pace.....Simply lots of content.
This is why World of Warcraft is still #1... Their original reputation of a full game with so many starting areas, 6 major cities and multiple avenues to add replay.
Sure you can power level in weeks, but you better be extremely well versed in the content. It's truly meant to be a life with in a life..... to abuse the game like that, I find no fun !
About two years ago on a Vanilla server I was asked at around level 15 to team up with a power leveler. He flat out told me, try and keep up.... he had everything memorized to a degree I still cant understand how he knew the quest so well... he abused me for two hours, only for him to not need me any more..... I should have tracked his progress using the social panel. I'll bet he was level 60 in two days or less.
important:
How did he find any enjoyment in that ?.... He never cared about his surroundings or people in the least, only level 60.
It's like being handed 10 million dollars and skip life
For some reason your only on this site to follow me around...scat...scat I say !
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
There's been tremendous cross pollination of genre elements in games over the years. Perfectly fine if you don't like some of those elements. Personally, I thought WoW was badly written and boring. Doesn't mean others didn't flock to it.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
That is indeed how content for MMORPGs is, starting smaller and ever getting larger, provided the game survives long enough to expand.
Games where one can out level content are like an iceberg. They are often massive but the only part that truly catches the players eye is the bit at the top.
Perhaps the player you described derives enjoyment from the efficiency his leveling process has, or it is so fast the tedium of it is offset by the knowledge of the fun that will be had when it is done.
As for WoW being #1, I believe that is as much due to the MMORPG tendency for population to draw population as the merits the game has.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why do you assume solo equates to effortless? Every MMORPG I've played is more difficult for me to play solo than along with others.
Can you even say current MMORPG are even difficult for you at all, whether grouped or solo? I cant even think of an MMO that had difficult solo PVE content in the last 18 years. Unless you count difficult as being repetitive. Then yeah plenty of repetitive MMO's. I am pretty sure 6yr old's can play MMO's solo now.
I can say one is. ESO has plenty of content difficult for me to solo on my most capable character, and plenty more beyond his reach as of yet. When playing near the character's limit death is an ever present danger requiring ample use of all the abilities he can bring to bear to stave it off... usually. There are plenty of close calls and they don't always go my way.
These islands of difficult content are, of course, surrounded by a sea of content trivial to my character, which wouldn't have been quite so much the case in early MMORPGs. Regardless, challenge remains for those that seek it out.
I expect varying challenge can be found in most MMORPGs, as players of such tend to have a wide range of tastes, with some wanting more difficulty than others.
Feel free to come and show me how easy the more challenging content I'm playing on ESO these days is. That being said, I expect EQ2 has content with varying difficulty as well, with some not so easily cleared as the norm for those that seek such.
I notice you also think MMOs have become more difficult over the years from your other post. I am sure you can find difficulty in many games, but the overall direction of gaming not just MMOs is ever easier. Every new iteration of a franchise, every "quality of life" update makes the game easier. ESO is a case in point, I played it from launch and heard from those who played pre-launch that soloing was now easier. About two months after this soloing became easier after a patch, this happened again about a year (?) later. From those I know in the game it has only got easier since then, slowly but surely. I don't think you even have to do the original starter area now, some people found that "difficult" so it got binned. I assumed that it was seen as an an inconvenience, rather than difficult, gods of MMOland forbid you have an "inconvenience" in a MMO. We always found the raids and PvP challenging mind you, but solo in every MMO is as the former CEO of EA would say "something your mum could play".
You are right, ESO got so easy. I admit I haven't played the most recent content, but I seriously doubt they changed direction. Every patch made the game easier and easier. Dungeons that were too hard to beat were nerfed to make them easier. That's on top of the gear improvements and character buffs they give away every patch but never do they buff all the mobs worldwide.
Sure you can make it a challenge, you can do areas designed for groups all by yourself solo. Which I was doing just before I quit. You could technically remove all your gear and just play. You have to seriously go to extremes to find the challenge.
I actually think its part of the process for these new MMO's. Make the players think they are getting better by nerfing all the content. The players think they are becoming better at the game and are just godly. When in reality the content is being dumbed down for them.
Also ESO has gone down the route every other old MMO has so the idea that overall it has somehow managed to avoid getting easier since I left would be hard to believe. I should point out that I am not saying ESO needs to become the Dark Souls of MMOs or anything, just that easymode has gone too far. I welcomed the initial changes to make soloing easier which occurred over the first few months after launch. After that though I thought any further change was unnecessary, soloing seemed to have the right "bite" for me.