Anyone else impressed by gamers' language ability

Cryomatrix

I watch a number of European Starcraft streamers and im always impreased with how good their english is. They seem to speak english very well with a strong vocabulary. 

It seems like their language skills are better than what id expect from people who took it in school from a young age. 

Im just impressed and wonder if it is the gaming online that helps or what.

Sovrath

Cryomatrix said:

I watch a number of European Starcraft streamers and im always impreased with how good their english is. They seem to speak english very well with a strong vocabulary. 

It seems like their language skills are better than what id expect from people who took it in school from a young age. 

Im just impressed and wonder if it is the gaming online that helps or what.

I'm assuming these are people who have english as a second language? (or third or whatever ...)

My guess is that if you look at it from the vantage point of a United States Citizen then it makes sense that you would be surprised as we learn language in school up to the point we don't need to take it anymore and we rarely use it.

But with other countries, especially with "other" countries so close to them, finding a common language is important and English has been able to fit that bill.

I should add they often can speak "other" languages just as well because they use them often along with english.

When did I use my spanish? while in college at Disney World trying to tell a gentleman what was in Epcot for young children.

I was also able to comment on something a few of our cleaning women had said as I understood it.

That's about it.

Mendel

Gamers, I'm certain, are just like anyone else.  Some are articulate.  Others seem to think they are giving an oral defense of their PhD in Profanity.  I pay far more attention to the articulate ones.

I do especially admire people who are ESL.  That's just something I can't do.  I know my German only enables me to get slapped in bars.

Tiller

Why is this surprising? In many countries proficiency with the English is required in primary school; even in Russia believe it or not. In some Euro and Asian countries including Australia they also require students to attend 2 years of secondary school.

In America, higher education is frowned upon as being too"elitist" so they would rather most people remain dumb so they can scream at non-English speakers for not speaking English.

AlBQuirky

Tiller said:

Why is this surprising? In many countries proficiency with the English is required in primary school; even in Russia believe it or not. In some Euro and Asian countries including Australia they also require students to attend 2 years of secondary school.

In America, higher education is frowned upon as being too"elitist" so they would rather most people remain dumb so they can scream at non-English speakers for not speaking English.

For me it's twofold:
- I can't speak another language for the life of me.
- Most of the non-English speaking gamers/people I encounter speak/write it better than most English speaking natives.

I hold these multi-linguists in awe

TwistedSister77

ESL is taught in many countries for universal STEM opportunities.  I am impressed.  

My 8 old niece is taught courses in spanish..  full courses, (not just a language course).  But different schools do different approaches.

vegetableoil

People are impressed? I only got insult by people.  English is like one of the last languages I learned, it's like #5 on my language list. people who watched the stream are usually rude and complained a lot about my accent and stuff despite the only language they know is just English. 

Sovrath

vegetableoil said:

People are impressed? I only got insult by people.  English is like one of the last languages I learned, it's like #5 on my language list. people who watched the stream are usually rude and complained a lot about my accent and stuff despite the only language they know is just English. 

Which stream is that?

cheyane

It is not unusual for people from Asia to speak a lot of languages I speak 7 and when I was around 3 years old I was already speaking 4 languages because both my parents were speaking to me in different languages and we learn both English and Malay in school. Since I live in Italy now I was forced to pick up Italian and having lived in Spain and Brazil I was similarly forced to at least manage to have a conversation with the grocer to buy fruit and vegetables. I don't speak the European languages very well though but enough to get by.

Most people I know since very young are like me and my Chinese friends can speak like 3 different Chinese dialects and read and write Mandarin. The education system in Malaysia being a former British colony used to emphasise English but that strict requirement has become lax over the years but not when I was in school. Most schools also require students to learn to read and write their mother tongue. They have Mandarin and Tamil classes in some schools although not all of us are descended from that part of India. Just like my son was forced to learn Latin in school in Italy I was also required to learn Jawi a written form of Malay in Malaysia. 

Cryomatrix

Let me clarify, it isnt just speaking the language that impresses me, i know outside of US, many places focus well on other languages, it is how articulate and how strong their vocabulary is.

I mean, most of them have a higher vocabulary and are more articulate than some american politicians.

Iselin

Cryomatrix said:

I mean, most of them have a higher vocabulary and are more articulate then some american politicians.

That's a low bar these days.

cheyane

Cryomatrix said:

Let me clarify, it isnt just speaking the language that impresses me, i know outside of US, many places focus well on other languages, it is how articulate and how strong their vocabulary is.

I mean, most of them have a higher vocabulary and are more articulate then some american politicians.

Can your President even spell properly?

Cryomatrix

Mars_OMG said:

Cryomatrix said:

Let me clarify, it isnt just speaking the language that impresses me, i know outside of US, many places focus well on other languages, it is how articulate and how strong their vocabulary is.

I mean, most of them have a higher vocabulary and are more articulate then some american politicians.

and the real purpose of this thread is exposed.  

Not really. I was hoping european players would be like, "we learn english in school but since most of gaming is in English, it really improved my vocabulary". 

I've thought of joining spanish speaking guilds to improve my Spanish you know. 

cameltosis

I'm English and I was definitely impressed with the vocabulary of my mainland guildmates when i first started in mmorpgs.

Gaming definitely helps. Some of the younger guildmates even told me specifically that they chose an English server (rather than their native german) so that they could get better at speaking / typing in English.

Beyond that, English is the official lauguage of the European Union (even though we just left, lol!) so it gets taught in a lot of schools, if not all of them.

On top of that, you have the extensive influence of Hollywood and British film, which also contributes a lot towards speaking English well. My mainland guildies often told me how, growing up, they'd learn english at school then come home to watch movies in english, really helps them practice and become proficient.

Conversely, we English are lazy bastards! We're usually forced to study French (I did for 6 years) but national prejudices tend to make us ignore the lessons, plus it's all theory / grammer, its rarely about actually speaking French. So, we just make the rest of the world speak our language. Long live the Empire!

AlBQuirky

OG_Zorvan said:

Mendel said:

Gamers, I'm certain, are just like anyone else.  Some are articulate.  Others seem to think they are giving an oral defense of their PhD in Profanity.  I pay far more attention to the articulate ones.

I do especially admire people who are ESL.  That's just something I can't do.  I know my German only enables me to get slapped in bars.

What if my PhD in Profanity is honorary?

Would that be a PhD:P? Philosophical Doctorate of Profanity?

AlBQuirky

cheyane said:

Cryomatrix said:

Let me clarify, it isnt just speaking the language that impresses me, i know outside of US, many places focus well on other languages, it is how articulate and how strong their vocabulary is.

I mean, most of them have a higher vocabulary and are more articulate then some american politicians.

Can your President even spell properly?

Probably not. He is active on Twitter after all

lahnmir

Besides Dutch (my native tongue) I got taught several years of English, German and French at school. To such an extent that I read Lords of the Rings in English at the age of twelve. You should see my dad though, he speaks and writes all of the above and is fluent in Spanish and Russian to boot. Bloody bastard he is.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Po_gg

cameltosis said:

Beyond that, English is the official lauguage of the European Union (even though we just left, lol!) so it gets taught in a lot of schools, if not all of them.

Not "the", just "one of"   (actually all members' languages are official)

I'm not familiar with the details of the leave, but I assume english will remain on the list of official languages - you've left behind Gibraltar, afterall... (just kidding)

Jokes aside, I don't find anything strange in OP's observation. Language is something you need to practice often to hone it well, and if it's needed for your hobby, clearly you automatically practice it while enjoying your hobby.

Since english is kinda the lingua franca of gaming (most games are in english or at least have it as an option), gamers "pick it up" so to speak, just by playing their games.

Also, most gamers start to play as kids, and their brains are literally wired for learning.

My first meet with english was sitting in front of text adventure games on the C64 (later Sierra's Quests, and then RPGs) and was trying to patch up word by word, with a dictionary, what the game wants to tell me.

(not much improvement on that department in the following decades, to be honest )

Scot

AlBQuirky said:

cheyane said:

Cryomatrix said:

Let me clarify, it isnt just speaking the language that impresses me, i know outside of US, many places focus well on other languages, it is how articulate and how strong their vocabulary is.

I mean, most of them have a higher vocabulary and are more articulate then some american politicians.

Can your President even spell properly?

Probably not. He is active on Twitter after all

And that's how your tenure is judged these days, what you say on Twitter.

Po_gg

tzervo said:

C64, such an amazing piece

I learned to type commands to load games and play there at the age of 4ish-5 even before I learned to read and write in my native language. Still remember fondly playing Defender of the Crown and so many other games there.

Yep, had a very basic book on Basic (lol) and that's it, figure out the rest on your own kiddo... copy the commands from the book, to see what happens, etc.  Loved it.

There was a simple Breakout variant in it as an example, took it more than an hour to type it in, then played it the rest of the day... and for the next day it was gone. Stupid book, no warnings on how to save  

It's a bit sad that kids these days don't have this kinda exploration, just fire up google or watch a few youtube videos and everything's spoonfed to them.

vegetableoil

Sovrath said:

vegetableoil said:

People are impressed? I only got insult by people.  English is like one of the last languages I learned, it's like #5 on my language list. people who watched the stream are usually rude and complained a lot about my accent and stuff despite the only language they know is just English. 

Which stream is that?

I used to stream at twitch, but then I stopped I realize I can't handle real-time insult. I still have my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/minyaksayur, it's pretty much the same a lot of the comments are just insults, I might just decide to stop making videos shrug.

cheyane

tzervo said:

cheyane said:

It is not unusual for people from Asia to speak a lot of languages I speak 7 and when I was around 3 years old I was already speaking 4 languages because both my parents were speaking to me in different languages and we learn both English and Malay in school. Since I live in Italy now I was forced to pick up Italian and having lived in Spain and Brazil I was similarly forced to at least manage to have a conversation with the grocer to buy fruit and vegetables. I don't speak the European languages very well though but enough to get by.

Most people I know since very young are like me and my Chinese friends can speak like 3 different Chinese dialects and read and write Mandarin. The education system in Malaysia being a former British colony used to emphasise English but that strict requirement has become lax over the years but not when I was in school. Most schools also require students to learn to read and write their mother tongue. They have Mandarin and Tamil classes in some schools although not all of us are descended from that part of India. Just like my son was forced to learn Latin in school in Italy I was also required to learn Jawi a written form of Malay in Malaysia. 

I remember reading that for eastern Asians (particularly Chinese, not sure if it is the same in Malaysia) learning english is more challenging because their native language is more contextual (as in, the same word may have a different meaning depending on the context of the sentence) on top of being phonetically very different. This makes what you say about learning English at school, on top of all the other languages, all the more impressive.

The English were in Malaysia till 1957. They were actually teaching in our schools when my father and mother were going to school. My father also had the dubious honour of studying Japanese during the Japanese occupation. My grandfather having been tortured for the radio he had will not let us say a word about the Japanese and he never spoke about 'the occupation'. It's like it never happened and the glare he gave me about my passion for Japanese anime .... well let's just say I never mentioned that in his house again.

While it is true that all three ethnic groups have a problem with the pronunciation of English, having parents who were actually schooled by a genuine English teacher from England cured most of those problems and the subsequent generations developed our own Malaysian accent which I am very proud of. When the American Peace Corps  came to my quaint little town I had more difficulty understanding their American accent, bless his soul he did try in our class though. He was teaching us modern mathematics. 

We had a lot of British television shows and only later did I finally understand the American accent with the advent of more American shows on our telly. 

cameltosis said:

I'm English and I was definitely impressed with the vocabulary of my mainland guildmates when i first started in mmorpgs.

Gaming definitely helps. Some of the younger guildmates even told me specifically that they chose an English server (rather than their native german) so that they could get better at speaking / typing in English.

Beyond that, English is the official lauguage of the European Union (even though we just left, lol!) so it gets taught in a lot of schools, if not all of them.

On top of that, you have the extensive influence of Hollywood and British film, which also contributes a lot towards speaking English well. My mainland guildies often told me how, growing up, they'd learn english at school then come home to watch movies in english, really helps them practice and become proficient.

Conversely, we English are lazy bastards! We're usually forced to study French (I did for 6 years) but national prejudices tend to make us ignore the lessons, plus it's all theory / grammer, its rarely about actually speaking French. So, we just make the rest of the world speak our language. Long live the Empire!

Well I cannot speak for the other European countries but Italy used to dub all their movies and television shows. In fact they have the same person voicing John Wayne for every one of his movies so they recognise the Italian voice as his voice. This goes for every actor for consistency.

When I first met my husband I struggled with his accentuated English and he told me that although they study English in schools their pronunciation is quite dreadful. They don't actually watch that much television or movies in English in Italy. Of course much of that has changed but the public broadcasting is still heavily dubbed.

The way I picked up Portuguese when I went to Brazil was watching advertisements and just parroting them.I would try to insert a phrase or two from an ad much to the chagrin of my friends. I never did get the hang of it since I didn't take any classes for Portuguese or Spanish when I was in Madrid and to this day my mother in law complains that my Italian is awful. She is right. I'm lazy and I haven't made an effort.

I do think gaming definitely created a desire to speak English and to speak it well. I think that people who manage to pick up languages while gaming and when I watch their videos I'm so very impressed they just picked it up a few years back. They are very fluent and the accent is really something you just need to get used to. I always tell people who criticise my videos that they are welcome to watch something else.

kitarad

Gaming is a good motivator for a lot of things, mostly bad like how long you can hold your pee but learning English is definitely a good one.

Po_gg

cheyane said:

Well I cannot speak for the other European countries but Italy used to dub all their movies and television shows. In fact they have the same person voicing John Wayne for every one of his movies so they recognise the Italian voice as his voice. This goes for every actor for consistency.

I believe it's more common than you think. Lemme dig up a result I saw once...

https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/image/174750047939 

Basically three large parts, in most of western EU it's full-on dub, with dedicated actors for each foreign actor, etc.

Most of the ex-soviet region and Poland has voice-over (a weird mix of dub and original soundtrack).

And the north and south usually just have subtitles.

Usually the "big" languages (french, german, spanish, italian) have full-on dubs, since a dub, especially with real actors and high quality sound design ain't cheap.

But of course Portugal trips over this theory of mine, since they don't dub...

Ungood

I work in construction, where everyone is fluent in "Not my job"

Iselin

Po_gg said:

cheyane said:

Well I cannot speak for the other European countries but Italy used to dub all their movies and television shows. In fact they have the same person voicing John Wayne for every one of his movies so they recognise the Italian voice as his voice. This goes for every actor for consistency.

I believe it's more common than you think. Lemme dig up a result I saw once...

https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/image/174750047939 

Basically three large parts, in most of western EU it's full-on dub, with dedicated actors for each foreign actor, etc.

Most of the ex-soviet region and Poland has voice-over (a weird mix of dub and original soundtrack).

And the north and south usually just have subtitles.

Usually the "big" languages (french, german, spanish, italian) have full-on dubs, since a dub, especially with real actors and high quality sound design ain't cheap.

But of course Portugal trips over this theory of mine, since they don't dub...

I get a kick out of watching Movies and TV shows on Netflix that are dubbed with the subtitles also on. The dub and subs almost never match often with hilarious differences.