Wherefore Art Thou Renfail?

Slapshot1188

After seeing a comment in a thread about another game I decided to peek in on SoL and it looks like @Renfail has not posted on the forums or Discord since July other than a small blurb in early Sept.


Everything OK?

Wizardry

I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.

Sandmanjw

Wizardry said:

I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.

Makes no sense...how could a full loot cash shop pvp game be better than a pve game?

Been tried many a time and i do not remember it ever working as well as many of the pve games do. So how is that in any way a business choice/decision ?

Iselin

I think Wizardry sits on the toilet and comes up with ideas and then picks random threads to post them in, sequitur be damned!

Amathe

Just fyi, wherefore art thou does not mean where are you. 

wherefore” means “why”, not “where” – she doesn't want to know where he is; she wants to know why he has to be a Montague, and the sworn enemy of her family.

I believe he said they were taking a two year media pause.

Slapshot1188

Wizardry said:

I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.

I normally ignore your post but just had to respond.  This game did not go “full loot pvp”. It is a pure PvE game.  Please just stop posting random shit all over the place.

Slapshot1188

Amathe said:

Just fyi, wherefore art thou does not mean where are you. 

wherefore” means “why”, not “where” – she doesn't want to know where he is; she wants to know why he has to be a Montague, and the sworn enemy of her family.

I believe he said they were taking a two year media pause.

Once upon a time I knew that. It sucks to get old.

borghive49

This game will never launch, anyone putting faith in this studio is going to be sorely disappointed. 

Kyleran

At this point the less said the better for most of these indie MMORPG efforts.

Ungood

remsleep said:

It seems that Renfail has turned into a LOTR streamer - posted a video today on his channel

he does plug SoL book at the beginning of the video

Can't stream what does not exist, also, if you are legit, you don't sell what you don't have.

MightyUnclean

Another dead indie MMO.  Is anyone still surprised this is happening?

Theocritus

So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?

Ungood

Theocritus said:

So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?

Given he Writes the Blog and is listed as the Creative Director of Saga of Lucinia, I don't think he was some random Streamer paid to drum up business. 

Kyleran

Ungood said:hrs

Theocritus said:

So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?

Given he Writes the Blog and is listed as the Creative Director of Saga of Lucinia, I don't think he was some random Streamer paid to drum up business. 

He's a principal who main job over the years was to drum up support for the game.

Apparently spent much of his time in 2020 live streaming LotRO seeing there's been nothing to promote since they hunkered down last Spring.

Morgenes83

Slapshot1188 said:

Amathe said:

Just fyi, wherefore art thou does not mean where are you. 

wherefore” means “why”, not “where” – she doesn't want to know where he is; she wants to know why he has to be a Montague, and the sworn enemy of her family.

I believe he said they were taking a two year media pause.

Once upon a time I knew that. It sucks to get old.

This is most probably coming from the German word "wofür" which means "why for" but "wo" is directly translated into english as "where" while "why" is "warum". Just that you do not die stupid (also a German saying)

@topic ;
Common business. Everything is fine until the ship has sunken completely.
When people like Renfail become silent it's mostly already to late and they prepare the letter to the community stating that Corona killed the game.

I don't hope this is the case as this game is definitely something I would like to play, but that's my experience.

Edit: totally missed the "2 year media break" statement.
If this is the case this is probably them realizing that they are further from release and that it only hurts the game like you can see with MJ and Camelot. 

Ungood

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:hrs

Theocritus said:

So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?

Given he Writes the Blog and is listed as the Creative Director of Saga of Lucinia, I don't think he was some random Streamer paid to drum up business. 

He's a principal who main job over the years was to drum up support for the game.

Apparently spent much of his time in 2020 live streaming LotRO seeing there's been nothing to promote since they hunkered down last Spring.

Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.

Scot

If I remember correctly they decided to have very little presence on social media including the likes of here very early on. Its a very small team so they have very slow progress and all they would get it calls of why hasn't it launched yet, the same we do on all the other CF MMOs, they had a heads down and get on with it approach. But they reversed that decision for a while I assume to drum up some more money and then went back to a quiet news state. I think he also said that for nearly all (or all of) the team this was a second job so you can multiply time to launch by two or three times right there.

moshra

Slapshot1188 said:

Wizardry said:

I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.

I normally ignore your post but just had to respond.  This game did not go “full loot pvp”. It is a pure PvE game.  Please just stop posting random shit all over the place.

Clearly you're not a SERIOUS GAMER, otherwise you would not be arguing with Wizardry.  He speaks for all of us SERIOUS gamers that want a TRUE passionate game.  Out with the FLashy LIGhts and BILLBOARDS AND IN WITH THE PASSSIONATE GAME DESIGN!!!!! 

Mendel

tzervo said:

Ungood said:

Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.

Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.

moshra

Torval said:

Mendel said:

tzervo said:

Ungood said:

Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.

Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.

I work more than 40 hours a week at a salaried job. I still have plenty of time to game (or stream if I wanted to) in my off time. I venture to guess that none of us here, still working, only work and have no time to game.

Nope, game developers should only play/stream games they are currently working on.  Should be law.

Utinni

Alpha still ongoing. Tim tends to show up when there is something to talk about. No reason to respond to a post saying his game is full loot pvp.

Mendel

Torval said:

Mendel said:

tzervo said:

Ungood said:

Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.

Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.

I work more than 40 hours a week at a salaried job. I still have plenty of time to game (or stream if I wanted to) in my off time. I venture to guess that none of us here, still working, only work and have no time to game.

I was just suggesting that he might have more time than we know to pursue these other things.  How much free time does his full-time participation leave him.  That probably depends on how much he is contributing.  In an idea/vision/envision mode, he's probably in all that.  Debugging network code or creating art assets, he's probably got more time.

So, yes, I sorta agree. 

Scot

Torval said:

Mendel said:

tzervo said:

Ungood said:

Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.

Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.

I work more than 40 hours a week at a salaried job. I still have plenty of time to game (or stream if I wanted to) in my off time. I venture to guess that none of us here, still working, only work and have no time to game.

What a nightmare scenario that would be. No. Time. To. Game: Scot runs off and falls into a Pit of Doom! 

Slapshot1188

I have had direct contact with Tim (Renfail).  He has advised that he and his brother ceased involvement with the project as of September 2020.   The group retains all rights to the world and backstories he created and he assumes is still working to completion.

Slapshot1188

Update-  He has announced that he is working on Project Dramond which seems to be a new fantasy setting/table top RPG campaign, novels, "point and click adventure game" like Kings Quest.

Kind of like Saga of Lucimia was I guess, but the game is like KingsQuest instead of Everquest.

Concept art below.









So it would appear that this is a hard split from SoL.

Kyleran

Whoa, now this really is big news. Tim put a good six or more years into this game, something really must have gone wrong for him to sever all ties.