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Red's Read - Genshin Impact | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 7,110
edited November 2020 in News & Features Discussion

imageRed's Read - Genshin Impact | MMORPG.com

Red Thomas discovers Genshin Impact, a surprisingly enjoyable game that may be ideal for some readers. Red gives his impressions of the game with his typical eye for anything kid-friendly and also with his typical consideration for price.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,164
    Genshin Impact is the harbinger of an even more abusive gambling box system than we have coming to the West. While I agree with what Red said about cultures, this is one part of their culture we don't want here, so for me the game is to be avoided at all costs. If you want to experience a different culture through a game, then pick another game and join an international guild.
    doomexPhoenix_HawkMcSleazshadowafflesIselin

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  • indyinindyin Member UncommonPosts: 16
    I played this at launch and it was really fun for the first couple days. Luckily I watched some Youtube videos about this game and how they design it to create a gambling addiction. After watching some youtubers throw thousands at this game, I decided it's not a game I want to support. I understand games need to make money and I'm all about supporting a game but not a game that preys on its customer base like this. These types of games are about how big your wallet is and not about how well you play a game.
    ScotMcSleazshadowaffles
  • ChaserzChaserz Member UncommonPosts: 257
    Correct article title: Red's Read - Genshin Impact: "Kid friendly MMOs"
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 666

    indyin said:

    I played this at launch and it was really fun for the first couple days. Luckily I watched some Youtube videos about this game and how they design it to create a gambling addiction. After watching some youtubers throw thousands at this game, I decided it's not a game I want to support. I understand games need to make money and I'm all about supporting a game but not a game that preys on its customer base like this. These types of games are about how big your wallet is and not about how well you play a game.



    Can you cite those videos about the game design because I'm pretty sure that's not true.

    Obviously lootboxes are a form of gambling and thus why they're banned in some countries, but I doubt that addition was one of the core design goals.

    I also disagree with the sentiment that this is an exclusive Eastern adoption. Call of Duty, for instance, was banned in a couple countries for loot crates. Skinner's Box Techniques have been used in a ridiculous number of games to exactly the same effect.

    It's not my preferred revenue model by a long shot, but spending $20/month in this game is about like spending $20/month on any other game or subscription. Parents that don't monitor their kids and adults that don't monitor themselves is kind of another subject all together.
    SandmanjwYashaXmetareal
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 542
    Couple things about this game, I agree with Scot, this is bringing in more of what is really bad for gamers in the long run.

    On the other hand it is done right. I can do all content with the f2p characters, in fact some have done more with them than others have done with way more. I can pull off about 2 wishes a day with only playing a couple hours and not putting a dollar into it. IF you did the 4.99 thing that gives you 90 gems a day i could maybe do 3 if I'm lucky.

    Without using a dollar I've gotten most characters in the game with the exception of 3 or 4. Now i did decide to spend about 10 and didn't get anything since.. go figure!

    Having said that i really don't like these style games because it gives the green light to more and more predatory practices. I might have the will power to not blow hundreds or thousands but those with compulsive behavior or addictions to certain actions might not be so lucky and get themselves in a seriously problem.

    My take is it is a good, fun game but it will always be shadowed by the concern of the shop. And my biggest problem is the success it has had will bring solid games with worse problems(shops) with it.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,367

    indyin said:

    I played this at launch and it was really fun for the first couple days. Luckily I watched some Youtube videos about this game and how they design it to create a gambling addiction. After watching some youtubers throw thousands at this game, I decided it's not a game I want to support. I understand games need to make money and I'm all about supporting a game but not a game that preys on its customer base like this. These types of games are about how big your wallet is and not about how well you play a game.



    Can you cite those videos about the game design because I'm pretty sure that's not true.

    Obviously lootboxes are a form of gambling and thus why they're banned in some countries, but I doubt that addition was one of the core design goals.

    I also disagree with the sentiment that this is an exclusive Eastern adoption. Call of Duty, for instance, was banned in a couple countries for loot crates. Skinner's Box Techniques have been used in a ridiculous number of games to exactly the same effect.

    It's not my preferred revenue model by a long shot, but spending $20/month in this game is about like spending $20/month on any other game or subscription. Parents that don't monitor their kids and adults that don't monitor themselves is kind of another subject all together.
    That is perhaps a poignant point to make. Due to how obscenely overpriced their currency is, the most efficient part of their business model is actually $15/mo through their Welkin Moon and Battle Pass. Hell, I'd argue it's actually $5/mo, as the Welkin Moon far exceeds anything else they offer, including the Battle Pass. With that in mind, playing the game as designed is basically playing it as a tiered subscription game.
    Red_ThomasLackingMMO
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,198
    Couple things about this game, I agree with Scot, this is bringing in more of what is really bad for gamers in the long run.

    On the other hand it is done right. I can do all content with the f2p characters, in fact some have done more with them than others have done with way more. I can pull off about 2 wishes a day with only playing a couple hours and not putting a dollar into it. IF you did the 4.99 thing that gives you 90 gems a day i could maybe do 3 if I'm lucky.

    Without using a dollar I've gotten most characters in the game with the exception of 3 or 4. Now i did decide to spend about 10 and didn't get anything since.. go figure!



    I would argue that if you are not spending any money (even though you spent $10 but didn't get anything) then it' snot being done right.

    If most people can spend "nothing" then al that means is that the game is going to cater to those who spend MORE than any average game. That means that it encourages "whale type spending" and any game that is designed around that is not really great for the average person because eventually all the game design will revolve around them.


    alin1209ScotRed_Thomasalkarionlog
  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member UncommonPosts: 326




    indyin said:


    I played this at launch and it was really fun for the first couple days. Luckily I watched some Youtube videos about this game and how they design it to create a gambling addiction. After watching some youtubers throw thousands at this game, I decided it's not a game I want to support. I understand games need to make money and I'm all about supporting a game but not a game that preys on its customer base like this. These types of games are about how big your wallet is and not about how well you play a game.






    Can you cite those videos about the game design because I'm pretty sure that's not true.



    Obviously lootboxes are a form of gambling and thus why they're banned in some countries, but I doubt that addition was one of the core design goals.



    I also disagree with the sentiment that this is an exclusive Eastern adoption. Call of Duty, for instance, was banned in a couple countries for loot crates. Skinner's Box Techniques have been used in a ridiculous number of games to exactly the same effect.



    It's not my preferred revenue model by a long shot, but spending $20/month in this game is about like spending $20/month on any other game or subscription. Parents that don't monitor their kids and adults that don't monitor themselves is kind of another subject all together.



    I am always a supporter of free choice...except where it comes to kids. These games that have this type of revenue models should have a hard cap of spending for any minors.

    But implementing anything like this on-line, is almost impossible. For adults, any that can not control themselves, a computer game is far away from their main life problems i would say.

    The sophistry of these game designers trying to use any name other than gambling, for these loot boxes, and targeting children, those 2 things annoy me the most about these games.

    But as you said this is another subject we can go on with forever:) As always, a good read of the game with your take, thanks. Games played with children and supervision that appeal to both adults and kids are not easy to find.
    Scot
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,182
    As a "freemium" player. I give $5 a month and sometimes 10 for the BP because I've gotten an easy 100+ hours into the game, so this is a mere pittance for the entertainment offered. Did I have to spend a dime? Not at all, I never once felt compelled but since the game was enjoyable, why not show support.

    As for the "protect the children" sentiment. Bug off, that is the parents job, if a child is getting addicted to gacha, the parents are failing. If you're an adult and struggling with loot box or gacha systems, don't play it, they're not for you.

    Genshin can be played entirely for free and enjoyed fully. Anything you pay is extra and for any reasonable adult within your means.
    strawhat0981Red_Thomasmetareal
  • ScribeShilohScribeShiloh Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    Since you can't seem to do your own research:

    https://game-wisdom.com/critical/look-addictive-nature-gacha-design
    Scot
  • PepoutPepout Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    Please dont introduce your Kids to this. Everything pushes you Towards paying. Yes there Is a great game hidden for free but it requires a strong will not to give in to the gacha. Dont do this to your Kids. Also the multiplayer sucks so Hard. You cant quest together and only group leader gets loot. So you are left only with domains and current events to play together. And thoose requires resin. You can hold 160 resin at a time and it takes about 16 hours to accumulate that. A domain cost 20 resin and takes 3 min. Current event cost 40 resin and takes Max 5 min. And then you have to use that expensive refills. And buying the wishes is so insanly expensive. And because Of the random of wishes spending 100$ will feel like you progressed 0%. So in total this game is created to lure as much money out of people as possible.
    Scot
  • PepoutPepout Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    Play portal knights og even dungeon defenders 2 with your kids instead.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,164
    Since you can't seem to do your own research:

    https://game-wisdom.com/critical/look-addictive-nature-gacha-design
    Pepout said:
    Please dont introduce your Kids to this. Everything pushes you Towards paying. Yes there Is a great game hidden for free but it requires a strong will not to give in to the gacha. Dont do this to your Kids. Also the multiplayer sucks so Hard. You cant quest together and only group leader gets loot. So you are left only with domains and current events to play together. And thoose requires resin. You can hold 160 resin at a time and it takes about 16 hours to accumulate that. A domain cost 20 resin and takes 3 min. Current event cost 40 resin and takes Max 5 min. And then you have to use that expensive refills. And buying the wishes is so insanly expensive. And because Of the random of wishes spending 100$ will feel like you progressed 0%. So in total this game is created to lure as much money out of people as possible.
    Welcome to the forums! :)
    Red_Thomas

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,164
    Sandmanjw said:




    indyin said:


    I played this at launch and it was really fun for the first couple days. Luckily I watched some Youtube videos about this game and how they design it to create a gambling addiction. After watching some youtubers throw thousands at this game, I decided it's not a game I want to support. I understand games need to make money and I'm all about supporting a game but not a game that preys on its customer base like this. These types of games are about how big your wallet is and not about how well you play a game.






    Can you cite those videos about the game design because I'm pretty sure that's not true.



    Obviously lootboxes are a form of gambling and thus why they're banned in some countries, but I doubt that addition was one of the core design goals.



    I also disagree with the sentiment that this is an exclusive Eastern adoption. Call of Duty, for instance, was banned in a couple countries for loot crates. Skinner's Box Techniques have been used in a ridiculous number of games to exactly the same effect.



    It's not my preferred revenue model by a long shot, but spending $20/month in this game is about like spending $20/month on any other game or subscription. Parents that don't monitor their kids and adults that don't monitor themselves is kind of another subject all together.



    I am always a supporter of free choice...except where it comes to kids. These games that have this type of revenue models should have a hard cap of spending for any minors.

    But implementing anything like this on-line, is almost impossible. For adults, any that can not control themselves, a computer game is far away from their main life problems i would say.

    The sophistry of these game designers trying to use any name other than gambling, for these loot boxes, and targeting children, those 2 things annoy me the most about these games.

    But as you said this is another subject we can go on with forever:) As always, a good read of the game with your take, thanks. Games played with children and supervision that appeal to both adults and kids are not easy to find.
    It is well known that if you experience a lot of gambling when a youngster, there is an increased chance of you developing a gambling addiction as an adult. Our games today are rife with gambling style play, anything where you pay for a chance to get an item, a part of an item or an upgrade is gambling.

    Gatcha is just a even worse form of loot box than we already have, there is a reason some countries have/are considering banning loot boxes, they are gambling, which should not be found in gaming.

    You mentioned a cap, gaming studios are currently trying to argue there is nothing wrong here. If that does not work they argue all they need to do is publish the loot box drop rates. If even that does work they will fall back to saying each player will have a cap on how much they buy. The cap option makes loot boxes far less lucrative but it is still gambling in gaming, so for me we need to get rid of it.

     25 Agrees

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  • doomexdoomex Member UncommonPosts: 108
    *My hope is that this could be an easy way to introduce the younger ones to some of the basic concepts that might make a transition to MMOs easier later*

    Yes teach them how to spend their money poorly. Become gambling addicts later on. Worship anime waifus. I don't see anything wrong with it. Nope not at all.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 666

    Sovrath said:




    I would argue that if you are not spending any money (even though you spent $10 but didn't get anything) then it' snot being done right.

    If most people can spend "nothing" then al that means is that the game is going to cater to those who spend MORE than any average game. That means that it encourages "whale type spending" and any game that is designed around that is not really great for the average person because eventually all the game design will revolve around them.





    I agree with that, but it's also hardly any different from the vast majority of other nonsubscription-based models out there. They all are designed to capture the majority of their revenue from whales(mobile games in particular are like this). That's probably something that should be encouraged, honestly. It lowers the barrier of entry so that those with less get carried by those with more.

    My standard is time and cosmetics. If all you can buy is time and cosmetics, then I'm 100% for it and I'm unlikely to care much about the form it takes. I'm not crazy about lootbox models, but if it doesn't provide anything you have to have, then I'm very unlikely to be openly opposed to it. If that's a system that allows someone with more money to spend more so that those with less can play for free or for very little, then I'm even more supportive of it.

    That's purely my opinion, though. I'm not offended that others feel differently.
    Sal1metareal
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 666

    Pepout said:

    Play portal knights og even dungeon defenders 2 with your kids instead.



    I don't know that I agree with that. Obviously it's a personal choice that each parent needs to make for themselves and there's not going to be a single holistic "right" answer. There are going to be cases that are exceptions, but generally avoiding temptation is really failed teaching opportunities. Kids need to learn self control and moderation just like adults. You don't not go to buffets because you don't want your kids exposed to an opportunity to over eat.

    That said, I readily admit that there are plenty of other games that I'd recommend for kids over this one. For older kids that are the cusp of being interested on MMOs, this could be a decent way to bridge that gap, though.

    One of my nieces is playing this game now and I'm hoping to get a nephew into it. If things go well, I'll use it as a bridge to get them into New World with me later, and then hopefully something more robust after that. That's my plan, though it has yet to meet the adversity of operational testing.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 666

    Scot said:



    It is well known that if you experience a lot of gambling when a youngster, there is an increased chance of you developing a gambling addiction as an adult. Our games today are rife with gambling style play, anything where you pay for a chance to get an item, a part of an item or an upgrade is gambling.

    Gatcha is just a even worse form of loot box than we already have, there is a reason some countries have/are considering banning loot boxes, they are gambling, which should not be found in gaming.

    You mentioned a cap, gaming studios are currently trying to argue there is nothing wrong here. If that does not work they argue all they need to do is publish the loot box drop rates. If even that does work they will fall back to saying each player will have a cap on how much they buy. The cap option makes loot boxes far less lucrative but it is still gambling in gaming, so for me we need to get rid of it.



    To be clear, that's a completely fair point and one I actually agree with in principle. Gambling is addictive, but it's also at the root of all gaming in general. Games are games because there's an element of chance, whether you're rolling dice (d20s vs a pair of d6s) or the dice rolling is hidden behind the digital veil. Chance is chance and it's the fundamental component of nearly all games.

    You have to draw the line somewhere. For me, that line between gambling and gaming is whether or not money is necessary for the gamble. In this case, there are several ways to access the same chance mechanics without spending a dime, so I don't think it falls into that "gambling" category.

    BUT... you know what, this seems to be a big issue for a lot of folks and it is interesting. I'm going to reach out to a couple local universities and let's see what shakes out of it. If I drop a gambling article in a few weeks, you all will know you inspired it. No promises because there are a lot of reasons it might not make the cut. Might just be too dry or I might not have time, but I will make the attempt.

    You may all fall before your Prinz der Verurteilung in abject adoration, now. Verily, for my decision shall be nigh.
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 542

    Sovrath said:



    Couple things about this game, I agree with Scot, this is bringing in more of what is really bad for gamers in the long run.



    On the other hand it is done right. I can do all content with the f2p characters, in fact some have done more with them than others have done with way more. I can pull off about 2 wishes a day with only playing a couple hours and not putting a dollar into it. IF you did the 4.99 thing that gives you 90 gems a day i could maybe do 3 if I'm lucky.



    Without using a dollar I've gotten most characters in the game with the exception of 3 or 4. Now i did decide to spend about 10 and didn't get anything since.. go figure!






    I would argue that if you are not spending any money (even though you spent $10 but didn't get anything) then it' snot being done right.

    If most people can spend "nothing" then al that means is that the game is going to cater to those who spend MORE than any average game. That means that it encourages "whale type spending" and any game that is designed around that is not really great for the average person because eventually all the game design will revolve around them.





    My point was i didn't spend money to get anything.. i put up 10 like a week ago after playing since launch. My point is you don't have to in order to get gems to roll for characters. Could it take longer, sure? but spending isn't going to guarantee it anyways so why spend in order to get something that isn't sure when your in the same boat with no money lost?

    The thing i see is even running the characters you start with is fun enough, the world is fun to explore with enough puzzles and such to keep you entertained. We cant speak for what the game will become but what it is right now and the fact is, spending doesn't really get you anywhere. It gets you more flash but that is about it. What it will become wouldn't surprise me in the least, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. These games will always creep into spend for the best, all I'm saying is whale or not, at this point in the game spending for characters does not matter or really give you a huge benefit.

    metareal
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,164

    Scot said:



    It is well known that if you experience a lot of gambling when a youngster, there is an increased chance of you developing a gambling addiction as an adult. Our games today are rife with gambling style play, anything where you pay for a chance to get an item, a part of an item or an upgrade is gambling.

    Gatcha is just a even worse form of loot box than we already have, there is a reason some countries have/are considering banning loot boxes, they are gambling, which should not be found in gaming.

    You mentioned a cap, gaming studios are currently trying to argue there is nothing wrong here. If that does not work they argue all they need to do is publish the loot box drop rates. If even that does work they will fall back to saying each player will have a cap on how much they buy. The cap option makes loot boxes far less lucrative but it is still gambling in gaming, so for me we need to get rid of it.



    To be clear, that's a completely fair point and one I actually agree with in principle. Gambling is addictive, but it's also at the root of all gaming in general. Games are games because there's an element of chance, whether you're rolling dice (d20s vs a pair of d6s) or the dice rolling is hidden behind the digital veil. Chance is chance and it's the fundamental component of nearly all games.

    You have to draw the line somewhere. For me, that line between gambling and gaming is whether or not money is necessary for the gamble. In this case, there are several ways to access the same chance mechanics without spending a dime, so I don't think it falls into that "gambling" category.

    BUT... you know what, this seems to be a big issue for a lot of folks and it is interesting. I'm going to reach out to a couple local universities and let's see what shakes out of it. If I drop a gambling article in a few weeks, you all will know you inspired it. No promises because there are a lot of reasons it might not make the cut. Might just be too dry or I might not have time, but I will make the attempt.

    You may all fall before your Prinz der Verurteilung in abject adoration, now. Verily, for my decision shall be nigh.
    I have a similar line, chance mechanics in games are only gambling if you can pay for them. For me it does not matter if it can be done some other way, the games are designed to entice you into paying, not entice you into grinding.

    It would be good to see an article like that on here, gambling in gaming is rarely looked at in the gaming media. Take as long as you like to do it, the gambling is not going anywhere soon.

     25 Agrees

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,781
    Much like Red I went into the game thinking I wasn't going to like it much, but was honestly kind of blown away by how good it was in many aspects. I'm not a fan of the monetization model, but from a purely gameplay and execution perspective there is a lot to admire in Genshin.
    metareal
    ....
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,361
    I wish others would actually share what it is the game does well because i only saw ONE thing and that is "elemental "properties.
    I think the idea of auto switching classes on the fly is just dumb and destroys the meaning of a class.With this design you might as well just give the player everything and remove the role and the class.

    The characters faces look like white masks and not like  a face.The graphics are incredibly low end,cheap crap and no excuse for it.Gameplay trumps graphics,most certainly but I don't see the gameplay either.

    Chests just laying around or hidden is again a lame cheap old idea from 20-25 years ago.Items shoudl be  crafted or found from drops,like why are those chests there anyhow,that makes no sense.

    Nodes have sparkles coming from them>>lame.

    In reality this is basically a 1990's console type game and not worthy of any praise in 2020.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • metarealmetareal Member UncommonPosts: 30

    Wizardry said:

    the idea of auto switching classes on the fly is just dumb and destroys the meaning of a class.


    Genshin impact is about playing a team of 4 who can synergize (not playing a single hero or a class). It's a little like multi-boxing, finding teams play-style and right combos for hard fights and puzzles as the world rank rise.
    It makes the combat never repetitive or boring since it's all about combining, experimenting and making interesting contextual choices rather than a class skill rotation.

    That mix of challenges and required creativity is certainly not for everyone though. I personally love it.

    I expect Mihoyo to be copied a lot but maybe not for the gatcha as there's no strong incentive to spend money (the Battle pass is not even visible before Adventure Rank 20) and most of the 4 stars characters are excellent in the right teams. Most streamers and Youtubers I've seen agree that the best version of the game is the F2P or subscription/BP (15 euros/month - my case).

    That said because of the gatcha I wouldn't recommend the game to kids nor adults having gambling habits.
    YashaXRed_Thomas
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,367
    I lowkey want a Genshin Impact Dynasty Warriors spinoff. The elemental combos and 4 character teams would really complement the formula. And I could actually see badasses like Diluc, Zhongli, Beidou, and Jean mowing down hundreds of foes.
    rojoArcueidLackingMMORed_Thomas
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,490
    Aeander said:
    I lowkey want a Genshin Impact Dynasty Warriors spinoff. The elemental combos and 4 character teams would really complement the formula. And I could actually see badasses like Diluc, Zhongli, Beidou, and Jean mowing down hundreds of foes.

    While i've never been a big fan of Musou games, it would be really satisfying to unleash Beido's fully charged counter attack to a large group of enemies on screen.
    Red_Thomas




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