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Will we have another MMORPG like the 2004 and prior days?

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  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,822
    If VR is a scam, why am I having so much fun with my Pimax 8K headset playing games like Elite Dangerous, Assetto Corsa or Dirt Rally II ?
    VR in simulation games is just amazing.
    Oh, and I don't even own an Occulus... could I be so wrong there too ?

    But it all must be my imagination...

    ... or it's just that every time I give that guy another chance and look one of his posts despite him being one of the rare on my ignore list, I immediately remember why he is there ;)
    You know I am really excited for the work Samsung and Stanford have been doing with VR display. OLED technology that supports up to 10,000 pixels per inch? 
    That could really move VR away from the screen door. 


    https://www.engadget.com/samsung-stanford-10000-ppi-oled-display-200949600.html
    laseritNanfoodleKyleranJean-Luc_PicardTorval

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,406
    achesoma said:
    It was the community that made old school mmos what they were. I doubt that will ever be fully recaptured. Though there are micro communities within games that predominantly gather in guilds and Discord. That’s the closest it gets to that close mmo community feeling. 

    I’m curious how you felt vanilla WoW was “dumbed down” but SWTOR impressed you. What was impressive about SWTOR?
    Ya the TicTok generation has a very short attention span. If they start designing MMOs to have 30-60 seconds of content at a shot, Im out. 
    xpsyncAlBQuirky
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,406
    Ungood said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    remsleep said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    I dont agree with DMKano on this...

    Ashes of Creation for one is making a large scale world thats all about exploring and getting lost. Dungeons are also on a large scale that will support many teams fighting in the same dungeon. You will have to wait another year + for that one but its looking like a winner. This will be a land and sea kind of game. Own a ship and go explore. 

    CorePunk is a different type of MMO, its top down like a MOBA but it also is all about a large world you can get lost in. It has a fog of war mechanic, so you will really need to jump into the world to find out whats out there. It also has an awesome question system.


    Archage 2 is also in the works, they did a good job of an expansive world in the first one. Will be interesting to see how they do with the second. Many did get turned away from the game by their payment model but friends that loved deep and rich worlds love Archage. 

    Pantheon is a long ways off if it releases but is also a large scale world that has some deep PvE content. Large scale dungeons that will support many teams and an in-depth way to quest with the perception system.  

    There are more games that are in the works that are not making a cookie cutter MMO that become the norm over the past 10 years. 2021 is looking like a good year for MMOs, there is more MMOs coming out in 2021 then we have seen in many many years. 




    1 - will any of those mmorpgs in the works actually make it to launch? - don't count your eggs before they hatch

    2 - will any of them match what 1999-2004 mmorpg experience was like- I am highly skeptical that any of these games will

    3 - will these games give players the same feelings they had back in 2004 - again - I think this goes back to the same "trying to recapture the first feeling" - and no matter how hard you try - it's just never the same



    I think having *exactly* what we had 20 years ago won't happen ever again - these new games will not bring back the glory days of mmorpgs


    Having said all that - i think if people approach new games as just new games to be enjoyed and not constantly trying to compare them to prior experiences - they can have a good time.

    It's all about ramping down expectations and being realistic
    I think they can and here is why. 10+ years of cookie cutter EQ1/WoW clones and another 5+ years of MMOs trying to be MOBAs amd we have allot of flops. Few hits like FF and ESO that did their own thing and did it well. Developers are getting that we dont need to have the hottest trends to make an MMO, like MOBA combat. 

    CorePunk for instance is its own thing. Playing it will give you a different kinda of feels when you play it. Will everyone love it? Most likely not. But someone looking for something new to fall in love with. Games like CorePunk could give you the feels you are looking for. 2021 has allot of non-cookie cutter MMOs in the works. 

    We are even getting some ARPG-MMOs. Will they be the next WoW? I dont think so but that rush of playing something different and exciting. I think we have allot of that on the way over the next 12-24 months. IMO, this kind of development could change how we look at MMOs and energize the online industry. 
    I disagree. 

    Corepunk plays like Torchlight 3 should have.
    It will not go anywhere close to furthering the genre along. 
    It is ok fun for what it is (at this stage anyway) but nothing it does is new and it recycles things we have seen in ARPGs for years and years now. 
    It feels like any other ARPG at this point.
    With MMO features just tacked on.
    Only a 4 party member cap. 
    I dislike a fog of war.
    Gear scores too? ugh. 
    You will see for yourself soon enough.
    Perhaps they can pull it together by launch but it is still just an ARPG with tacked on MMORPG systems.
    We have all seen how that turns out. 

    Everything that is coming out over the next few years is just variations of the same games over and over again.
    For some people that will be fine. 
    For many of us that will not be fine. 

    The technology needs to advance before we see a shift in the genre that everyone is really looking for. 
    Until then we just need to be content to play what is there or like some of us just move on to other genres all together. 
    Perhaps my grandkids will be able to play the MMORPG games I wish I could.
    To be fair, many people would have happy with a revitalized game concept. 

    It is not about doing NEW things, sometimes it is about finding those hidden gems that were lost under the treads of progress, polishing them off and exposing them as the diamonds they are.


    Or doing something you love with a unique twist. Blue points out CorePunk follows ARPG play styles. We dont have an ARPG-MMO and we have a bunch coming out in 2021. This could create a new fan base for MMOs. Or take people playing games like Torchlight and Diablo and give them a new home. 
    AlBQuirkyUngood
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,550
    Will the old experiences of the first generation of MMORPGs return?  Absolutely not. 
    • The internet has changed.  We moved from dial-up (and occasionally bad dial-up) to broadband and fiber connections.  Now, we aren't as tolerant nor as patient as we used to be.
    • The players have changed.  Most or the early players came from a tradition of pen&paper role playing.  These people were simply excited to explore a wider world of amazing new players.  Now, the era of pen&paper gaming has subsided.
    • The experience has changed.  First gen games were *new*.  No one had seen them before.  Now, it's old hat, even to players not born when the first MMORPGs showed up.
    • The companies have changed.  The early games were built by people who had a passion for what they were doing.  Now, the accountants are in control.
    New MMORPGs may come along.  Some may even be superior and change how we think of games.  I hope they do.  New ideas, new mechanics, new experiences.  Recreating the past just is unlikely to happen; it's like holding out for the return of the buggy whip in the age of cars (soon to be self-driving cars).



    xpsyncAlBQuirkyUngood

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,807
    achesoma said:
    It was the community that made old school mmos what they were. I doubt that will ever be fully recaptured. Though there are micro communities within games that predominantly gather in guilds and Discord. That’s the closest it gets to that close mmo community feeling. 

    I’m curious how you felt vanilla WoW was “dumbed down” but SWTOR impressed you. What was impressive about SWTOR?

    Great point, was a smaller pool of like minded gamers back then.
    AlBQuirky
    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Remember your ABC's, Always Be Casting! - Preheat 2021

    Currently Playing; WOW, SWG:L

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,923
    I have never played an mmorpg with a 'deep rich world' I don't even know what that means to be honest.
    They all have been near lifeless maps with sprinkles of poorly coded 'bad guys' waiting to be killed. 
    With whack a mole combat
    When people left the pen and paper arena behind to a virtual stage they were introduced to the idea of the RPG realized in a new way and that excited many people because it, well, included other people. 
    I think the reason the mmorpg genre hit a wall was once that new way was exhausted the tech could not handle the ideas to further it. 
    So it was just the same thing over and over. 
    Even today teams struggle to create an engine or make an off the shelf engine work for the ideas they have. 
    Add to that the A.I. 
    it is just the worst. 
    Once A.I. can help create a dynamic environment with both mobs, NPCs AND the world the genre can evolve to the next evolution that many thought it would take by now. 
    The world should come first for an mmorpg. 
    10's of thousands of systems layered on top of each other and interconnected. 
    I have never played an mmorpg that had a world I could get 'lost in' (whatever that means)
    LOTRO, EQ,AC,EQ2,WOW,FF14, Vanguard,GW,GW2, Lineage, DAoC, Aion 
    none of them. 
    We simply do not have the technology to effectively create a convincing virtual world. 
    If we do the budget is too prohibitive to do so.

    Until then it is just pointless to make anything large scale in the mmorpg area. 
    Too expensive, too time consuming and too limited in technology. 
    I see your "problem" with never playing in a convincing virtual world, EVE isn't on your list.

    :)
    tzervoAlBQuirkyFTrunks21

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 3,008
    I am an optimist when it comes to MMORPGs. I believe we will have another rennaisance, another golden age, that will bring back the excitement and feelings that we once had 15 years ago. The mechanics will be different, the design will be different, but the feelings will be similar.


    How do we get there?


    That's the tricky part. You will never get the same feelings of wonder and excitement by playing games that you've basically already played before. So, repeating old school designs won't give you that feeling, nor will borrowing from other genres that you are already familiar with. This is essentially the problem with current MMORPGs: they are basically just single player RPGs that you already know how to play, just with extra people and marginally more depth.


    But, at some point in the future, some unknown studio will come along and blow us all away with their "radical" design that reimagines the genre in a way that appeals to core gamers. Then, other studios will start to copy that new design, in the same way that everyone borrowed from WoW, and the genre will explode for another decade.....until it stagnates again.



    My prediction is that the new design paradigm will be sandbox, because sandbox has a ton of potential for an mmorpg but nobody has really gotten it right yet, we've never even had a AAA attempt at a sandbox. It will be focused on massively multiplayer, because that is the only unique selling point of the genre, literally can't get it anywhere else, so focusing on it makes a ton of sense.....if you can create great experiences out of that many people. It will also have a great IP, because we gamers are very fickle so we need a good IP to draw us in.



    With the way the market stands, I reckon we're 10-15 years away from seeing such a game. I hope we get there sooner.
    MendelAlBQuirkyAmaranthar
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,923
    Mendel said:
    Will the old experiences of the first generation of MMORPGs return?  Absolutely not. 
    • The internet has changed.  We moved from dial-up (and occasionally bad dial-up) to broadband and fiber connections.  Now, we aren't as tolerant nor as patient as we used to be.
    • The players have changed.  Most or the early players came from a tradition of pen&paper role playing.  These people were simply excited to explore a wider world of amazing new players.  Now, the era of pen&paper gaming has subsided.
    • The experience has changed.  First gen games were *new*.  No one had seen them before.  Now, it's old hat, even to players not born when the first MMORPGs showed up.
    • The companies have changed.  The early games were built by people who had a passion for what they were doing.  Now, the accountants are in control.
    New MMORPGs may come along.  Some may even be superior and change how we think of games.  I hope they do.  New ideas, new mechanics, new experiences.  Recreating the past just is unlikely to happen; it's like holding out for the return of the buggy whip in the age of cars (soon to be self-driving cars).



    And I've heard tell of some unknown person being seen flying around the Los Angeles area in a personal jet pack, and not one of those old school 1960's versions. 

    Now there's a crowd funding opportunity I'd pony up big bucks for...  B)

    Next up, self flying cars....


    MendelAlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,569
    The genre seems to have moved very far away from where it was in 2004. I sincerely doubt we will ever get back there and I have moved on from wishing.
    KyleranAlBQuirkyTwistedSister77

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,406
    Kyleran said:
    Mendel said:
    Will the old experiences of the first generation of MMORPGs return?  Absolutely not. 
    • The internet has changed.  We moved from dial-up (and occasionally bad dial-up) to broadband and fiber connections.  Now, we aren't as tolerant nor as patient as we used to be.
    • The players have changed.  Most or the early players came from a tradition of pen&paper role playing.  These people were simply excited to explore a wider world of amazing new players.  Now, the era of pen&paper gaming has subsided.
    • The experience has changed.  First gen games were *new*.  No one had seen them before.  Now, it's old hat, even to players not born when the first MMORPGs showed up.
    • The companies have changed.  The early games were built by people who had a passion for what they were doing.  Now, the accountants are in control.
    New MMORPGs may come along.  Some may even be superior and change how we think of games.  I hope they do.  New ideas, new mechanics, new experiences.  Recreating the past just is unlikely to happen; it's like holding out for the return of the buggy whip in the age of cars (soon to be self-driving cars).



    And I've heard tell of some unknown person being seen flying around the Los Angeles area in a personal jet pack, and not one of those old school 1960's versions. 

    Now there's a crowd funding opportunity I'd pony up big bucks for...  B)

    Next up, self flying cars....


    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2017062404/b-go-beyond

    Your Welcome?
    blueturtle13AlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,923

    With the way the market stands, I reckon we're 10-15 years away from seeing such a game. I hope we get there sooner.
    Err, so do I, as I'll really be pushing the dead pool in 10 to 15 years.

    At my age one can't afford to be optimistic for long term goals, definitely have to "live for today."

     :# 


    MendelAlBQuirkyUngoodTorval

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CrystallineNMCrystallineNM Member UncommonPosts: 45
    You'll never see another old school true mmo until loot boxes and microtransactions are done away with, and at this point I doubt that'll ever happen without significant legal action in several countries.

    I miss Star Wars Galaxies. No game since has ever compared to how deeply immersed I felt in that world.
    AlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,909
    Maybe. Trends shift over time. The MMORPGs of today aren't what they once were. Accordingly, the MMORPGs of today aren't what they will be.

    They could potentially come full circle, or something we can not yet fathom.

    Only time will tell.
    AlBQuirky
  • CrystallineNMCrystallineNM Member UncommonPosts: 45
    Kyleran said:

    With the way the market stands, I reckon we're 10-15 years away from seeing such a game. I hope we get there sooner.
    Err, so do I, as I'll really be pushing the dead pool in 10 to 15 years.

    At my age one can't afford to be optimistic for long term goals, definitely have to "live for today."

     :# 


    I'm not quite old enough that I'll worry about the ol' reaper in 10 to 15 years but I will be in my 40s. Not exactly old age but I know the older I get the less time I have for games (and MMOs are time intensive) and the less dexterity I have in my hands. I have my doubts that the mmos of 2 decades from now will even be an option for me.
    AlBQuirky
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,339
    "Few hits like FF and ESO that did their own thing and did it well. "

    See and I felt that these two games were part of he problem, not a solution to the problem......Both were cookie cutter on rails themeparks that were just more of the same....ESO was nothing like we had grown accustomed to in Elder Scrolls games. Both of these games wre dumbed down like WoW and as long as people buy this garbage this is what we are going to get.
    AlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,681
    You might as well be asking "Will we have players like in the 2004 and prior games?"

    The games have changed but the players have changed even more.

    I was reading a recent thread in the ESO forums about fake tanks in PUGs. It's a thing in that game because the builds are open and there is no simple way for the group finder to validate roles. It IS a trinity game but the role selection when you queue is done on the honor system.

    The system gets routinely gamed by DPSers who want an instant queue pop selecting "tank." Sometimes it works regardless if the random dungeon is an easy one and sometimes it's an annoying mess.

    I saw many people post in that thread saying that they are providing a public service because there are not enough real tanks so when they fake it they make the queue faster for everyone. They didn't get laughed out of the thread. They got agrees and insightful reactions instead.

    That's who you're playing with in 2020.
    AlBQuirkyphoenixfire2xpsyncUngoodYashaX
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,783
    edited October 2020
    laserit said:
    If VR is a scam, why am I having so much fun with my Pimax 8K headset playing games like Elite Dangerous, Assetto Corsa or Dirt Rally II ?
    VR in simulation games is just amazing.
    Oh, and I don't even own an Occulus... could I be so wrong there too ?

    But it all must be my imagination...

    ... or it's just that every time I give that guy another chance and look one of his posts despite him being one of the rare on my ignore list, I immediately remember why he is there ;)
    How is the 8k headset? What monitor resolution would you compare it too? I've been waiting and wanting to get a headset for driving sims. Just need the resolution to be acceptable for me.

    I own the first generation Pimax 8K (I had kickstarted it), so it's 4k per eye but the input is 2K upscaled. The advantage is that you need less horsepower from your graphic card to drive it, the input resolution is high enough to have good details and the final resolution is high enough to eliminate the "screen door" effect. I'm even watching 3D blu-ray with it, it's an amazing experience.

    The new "8K-X" models have true 4K input per eye, but you better have a beast of a computer to fully exploit them. They also have a new "Artisan" model with 120hz and 3200x1440 resolution.

    But the biggest problem of the first generation headsets was that you were seeing the world through binoculars. With the 8K (and even 5K) this is gone, you have a 200° field of vision, and this is the best feature of this model.

    TLDR: no "screen door" effect and 200° field of vision.

    If you only play "sitting" VR games like racing or simulation, you will only need a single lighthouse for positioning. I bought one HTC VIVE lighthouse for cheap, and I'm good, I'm mostly playing with a driving wheel or a flightstick.
    I also play games like Skyrim VR, or use the VorpX driver to convert non-VR games to VR, with some (WoW, ESO), it's quite impressive actually. A very fun game to play with a VR headset is, amusingly, Diablo III, since you get a real feeling of depth in the fixed camera graphics, like if you were playing on a model landscape.
    There's a lot of fun free VR content on Steam too, like the mini stories or Google Earth VR (amazing !), etc...
    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
    laserit
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,825
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Mendel said:
    Will the old experiences of the first generation of MMORPGs return?  Absolutely not. 
    • The internet has changed.  We moved from dial-up (and occasionally bad dial-up) to broadband and fiber connections.  Now, we aren't as tolerant nor as patient as we used to be.
    • The players have changed.  Most or the early players came from a tradition of pen&paper role playing.  These people were simply excited to explore a wider world of amazing new players.  Now, the era of pen&paper gaming has subsided.
    • The experience has changed.  First gen games were *new*.  No one had seen them before.  Now, it's old hat, even to players not born when the first MMORPGs showed up.
    • The companies have changed.  The early games were built by people who had a passion for what they were doing.  Now, the accountants are in control.
    New MMORPGs may come along.  Some may even be superior and change how we think of games.  I hope they do.  New ideas, new mechanics, new experiences.  Recreating the past just is unlikely to happen; it's like holding out for the return of the buggy whip in the age of cars (soon to be self-driving cars).



    And I've heard tell of some unknown person being seen flying around the Los Angeles area in a personal jet pack, and not one of those old school 1960's versions. 

    Now there's a crowd funding opportunity I'd pony up big bucks for...  B)

    Next up, self flying cars....


    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2017062404/b-go-beyond

    Your Welcome?

    Estimated delivery Dec 2013??

    Nanfoodle

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,235
    While devs have broadened the definition of MMO (Clash of Clans is an MMO), the MMO fan too narrowly defines the genre.

    The more an MMO deviates from the EQ/WOW formula, the worse it is received by self-described MMO fans, so I don't expect any return to the older game worlds as we remember them. 

    AlBQuirky
    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? --
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,783
    LynxJSA said:
    While devs have broadened the definition of MMO (Clash of Clans is an MMO), the MMO fan too narrowly defines the genre.

    The more an MMO deviates from the EQ/WOW formula, the worse it is received by self-described MMO fans, so I don't expect any return to the older game worlds as we remember them. 


    Many things can be a "MMO" without being a "RPG".
    AlBQuirkyKyleranTheocrituslaseritLynxJSATorval
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • phoenixfire2phoenixfire2 Member UncommonPosts: 219
    cheyane said:
    I was wondering to myself what would have happened if two games came out exactly like Everquest in 1999 at the same time.


    They kinda did, the other being Asheron's Call, their releases were within months of each other.  I argued constantly back then with a woman I knew that played AC she was always trying to convince me to play it, and I trying to convince her to play EQ.  We both lost in the end hehe
    AlBQuirky
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,825
    Iselin said:
    You might as well be asking "Will we have players like in the 2004 and prior games?"

    The games have changed but the players have changed even more.
    This is really well said. I don't miss "old EQ." I miss the players I met in that game. The players I see today just have different interests and goals, along with less time to play.

    EQ was fun. It wasn't "THE Holy Grail" of all gaming. The MMORPG space got "invaded" in 2004 and on. This is why I sound curmudgeonly when I disagree with "easy access for all."

    The player base from pre-2004 is gone. Even if they played "back then", many have "changed and adapted" to the new ways of playing, those quick time slots, that shallow "everyone can do everything" attitude, that lack of differences, and especially the disappearance of redundancy.

    This isn't a bad thing. It's great that many players have adapted and are enjoying games today. I wonder how quickly they'd back if old, deep RPGs came back, if at all :)
    xpsyncIselinUngoodcheyaneBrainy

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,550
    AlBQuirky said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Mendel said:
    Will the old experiences of the first generation of MMORPGs return?  Absolutely not. 
    • The internet has changed.  We moved from dial-up (and occasionally bad dial-up) to broadband and fiber connections.  Now, we aren't as tolerant nor as patient as we used to be.
    • The players have changed.  Most or the early players came from a tradition of pen&paper role playing.  These people were simply excited to explore a wider world of amazing new players.  Now, the era of pen&paper gaming has subsided.
    • The experience has changed.  First gen games were *new*.  No one had seen them before.  Now, it's old hat, even to players not born when the first MMORPGs showed up.
    • The companies have changed.  The early games were built by people who had a passion for what they were doing.  Now, the accountants are in control.
    New MMORPGs may come along.  Some may even be superior and change how we think of games.  I hope they do.  New ideas, new mechanics, new experiences.  Recreating the past just is unlikely to happen; it's like holding out for the return of the buggy whip in the age of cars (soon to be self-driving cars).



    And I've heard tell of some unknown person being seen flying around the Los Angeles area in a personal jet pack, and not one of those old school 1960's versions. 

    Now there's a crowd funding opportunity I'd pony up big bucks for...  B)

    Next up, self flying cars....


    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2017062404/b-go-beyond

    Your Welcome?

    Estimated delivery Dec 2013??


    You noticed that too.



    NanfoodleAlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,681
    AlBQuirky said:

    I don't miss "old EQ." I miss the players I met in that game. The players I see today just have different interests and goals, along with less time to play.


    That's exactly what I miss too: the players, the communities the more personal communication before there was FB or twitter or YT or universal smartphones. When people took time to help each other instead of linking  3 YT videos. We made friends easier in those because we were all learning how to do something new in games that also doubled as our social media before there was widely used social media.

    And that is the one thing that isn't coming back.

    The great communities created themselves because of who we were at that time not because of mechanic X in game Y. A lot of those early games had pretty janky and frankly obnoxious mechanics but we put up with them and didn't care because we were having a good time with good people.
    immodiumAlBQuirkyMendelWellspringTwistedSister77YashaXcheyaneTorval
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,822
    AlBQuirky said:
    Iselin said:
    You might as well be asking "Will we have players like in the 2004 and prior games?"

    The games have changed but the players have changed even more.
    This is really well said. I don't miss "old EQ." I miss the players I met in that game. The players I see today just have different interests and goals, along with less time to play.

    EQ was fun. It wasn't "THE Holy Grail" of all gaming. The MMORPG space got "invaded" in 2004 and on. This is why I sound curmudgeonly when I disagree with "easy access for all."

    The player base from pre-2004 is gone. Even if they played "back then", many have "changed and adapted" to the new ways of playing, those quick time slots, that shallow "everyone can do everything" attitude, that lack of differences, and especially the disappearance of redundancy.

    This isn't a bad thing. It's great that many players have adapted and are enjoying games today. I wonder how quickly they'd back if old, deep RPGs came back, if at all :)
    I personally don't feel that players would want to return to those days.

    Like anything, I believe it is purely a case of rose colored glasses, like drinking the cheap beer from your college days, wondering how you ever ingested such trash, and even thought you enjoyed it.

    If players wanted to return to anything, it would be their youth, not the stupid things they squandered it away on.


    AlBQuirkyKyleranTorval
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
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