Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Dual Universe Bans Marketplace Thieves - Community Reacts | MMORPG.com

2

Comments

  • DeathtognomesDeathtognomes Member UncommonPosts: 119
    That last line of the image from reddit [quote]..,however they didnt accept messages. [/quote]

    Thats always the issue when trying to report game breaking bugs. The overreaction by banning the players is uncalled for and should actually be rewarded. That being said, it seems the hack was the only way to get the Devs attention, shame on the Devs here.
    GdemamimaskedweaselKyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,791
    Break the game but don't break it that much. 

    Honestly this shouldn't have been a big deal at all, simply restoring from a backup and fixing the issue would have worked, with a temp ban. 

    It's clear that based on the developers response they are a very small team without the capabilities of handling normal testing. 

    It's clear that they are attempting to make an example of these players. Sad for both sides, because it's really a bad look. How many players get banned in beta for finding exploits? 

    Recently in Marvel's Avengers Beta, players were having to hack the game files to utilize the two missing characters during open beta. Bans were threatened. They never happened. 

    The team also chose not to fix game file editing exploits either. 

    No doubt this was done by novaquark to try and dissuade people from doing this kind of stuff, but their ineptitude won't fix their game. They learned a lesson, but their screw ups will now go woefully unnoticed, and when the game is finally live, they'll realize they should have been more lenient in banning people who were actually finding bugs AND REPORTING THEM, even if they weren't around to receive those messages. 

    It sounds like from the responses in the reddit post too, it's not so much that they took the building but that they posted about it, making the team look even more foolish. That's why they said "if you had come to us instead of posting on reddit".... yeah, it's clear they're just mad that their screw up went public while the team was having a relaxing weekend.
    GdemamiKyleran



  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,195
    That last line of the image from reddit [quote]..,however they didnt accept messages. [/quote]

    Thats always the issue when trying to report game breaking bugs. The overreaction by banning the players is uncalled for and should actually be rewarded. That being said, it seems the hack was the only way to get the Devs attention, shame on the Devs here.
    Your image didn't come through.

    Here's the thing ...

    Is there a way to report bugs and issues? Not e-mailing the devs, but a system in game or on a site (or perhaps e-mailing an account that is looked at solely for bugs.) 

    If there is, did they actually report it?

    And if they did, did they do it as soon as they found the issue (in a reasonable time frame) or did they take advantage of it and eventually report it?

    If I had players testing a game and they screwed around and messed things up and eventually reported it then I'd want them removed as well. 

    If they found the issue, discovered the extent of what could be done and then reported it then they shouldn't be banned.


    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,004
    edited October 2020
    What's very clear is how badly broken the moral and ethical compasses are for many folks here, it's like they have no ability to discern when they've crossed the line.

    Can't believe how many posts I've had to agree with @Gdemami on, has to be more than I typically do over two or three years.

    C'mon folks, knowing right from wrong really isn't that hard.... If it causes harm to others just don't do it.

    Or as someone famous once said,


    SovrathSandmanjwmaskedweaselYumeTsukai

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,620
    mrputts said:

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    I don't know if I would personally call this exploiting.

    ex·ploit
    verb
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).


    I don't believe it would fall under the text book definition of exploit. Doing it once and Posting about it is not making full use, nor is it really deriving benefit.

    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. Especially if they did try to reach the devs like the poster claims.

    Remember this is Beta testing. Not a Live Product
    Are players currently paying a sub to play?  I know my free beta key came with 3 months sub time but if people are paying for this then it’s at least in some ways a live product.

    Then they should call it that and not limited testing. They can't have it both ways. These guys are CoA incompetent. If it's testing then none of this should really be taken seriously because there should be a wipe at the end. If there is no wipe, then it's Live and they shouldn't get to hide their half-assed game behind a beta label. Don't go soft on me man.
    SharneGdemamiMendeltzervoXodic
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,620
    Sandmanjw said:
    More entitled idjits here than usual.

    This was a textbook reason for a ban, beta or not. They took the whole building that people could use to play the game. Not only making the dev's have to fix everything but stopped all the other players that wanted/needed to use it.

    This goes so far passed the point of an obvious exploit that will affect the whole game that should not be used, it is not even questionable.

    Anyone that thinks otherwise, i am sure the Dev's thank you for NOT being in their game, you would cause more problems than you would be worth.

    Thinking it is ok to cause damage and monetary loss and still get to play and have fun....idiots.




    If it's a test then people shouldn't be "playing" the game as if it were live. They should be testing and we've obviously forgotten that as a game community. I would argue the fault is mainly on the studios and publishers selling early access, crowd-funding, or whatever perpetual betas exist and playing games with words on the trusting who've they sucked into feeding their poor "developer" practices.

    Anyone can slap the word developer on their name now by claiming to make a game. That doesn't make them competent or smart. Game "developers" are a joke to most developers in other industries that have to make real software on an actual schedule within a real budget.

    This studio caused the issue by sending mixed messages about what they're doing and hiding behind a beta label. Professionals don't operate this way.
    SharneGdemamiXodic
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,004
    Torval said:
    mrputts said:

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    I don't know if I would personally call this exploiting.

    ex·ploit
    verb
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).


    I don't believe it would fall under the text book definition of exploit. Doing it once and Posting about it is not making full use, nor is it really deriving benefit.

    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. Especially if they did try to reach the devs like the poster claims.

    Remember this is Beta testing. Not a Live Product
    Are players currently paying a sub to play?  I know my free beta key came with 3 months sub time but if people are paying for this then it’s at least in some ways a live product.

    Then they should call it that and not limited testing. They can't have it both ways. These guys are CoA incompetent. If it's testing then none of this should really be taken seriously because there should be a wipe at the end. If there is no wipe, then it's Live and they shouldn't get to hide their half-assed game behind a beta label. Don't go soft on me man.
    To my knowledge there are wipes planned for the future, but once again revolutionary thinking (sic) has lead to "selling" three month subs (minimum) to 'help" them test the game.

    Neither of which matters to my way of thinking what these players did crossed way over the line in terms of "testing" 

    Let's put it into perspective, were I to discover a way to potentially wipe the DB server for the application I support, I would open a bug ticket but would never go forward and actually wipe the DB, then go off and brag to my peers on a company web site about it, especially when it could take the DBAs several days to restore while everyone else sat around idle.




    SovrathTorvaltzervo

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member LegendaryPosts: 7,410
    Honestly, the fact its in BETA is a blessing, but what kind of morons do this and then not report it immediately?

    Cheaters..... CHECK

    Exploiters... CHECK

    Useless Players... CHECK

    No offense, but if you're testing a game and you don't care enough to report obvious flaws within the game this extensive immediately BEFORE you spend hours dismantling an in-game NPC marketplace, yes you DO deserve to get banned.
    SovrathTorvalKyleranSandmanjw

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    The banning shows me that these developers are not serious about testing.  They appear to be treating DU as a source of income already.  Banning for this offense is only justifiable if the game is already live.

    Just another case of why Pay-to-Test is a flawed concept; players and developers both tend to treat this situation as a released product, not a test platform.



    TorvalGdemamiKyleranXodic

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,195
    Mendel said:
    The banning shows me that these developers are not serious about testing.  They appear to be treating DU as a source of income already.  Banning for this offense is only justifiable if the game is already live.

    Just another case of why Pay-to-Test is a flawed concept; players and developers both tend to treat this situation as a released product, not a test platform.



    Doesn't it also show that the players aren't serious about testing?

    Pay to test is crap though.
    TorvaltzervoKyleranRhoklaw
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,620
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    mrputts said:

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    I don't know if I would personally call this exploiting.

    ex·ploit
    verb
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).


    I don't believe it would fall under the text book definition of exploit. Doing it once and Posting about it is not making full use, nor is it really deriving benefit.

    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. Especially if they did try to reach the devs like the poster claims.

    Remember this is Beta testing. Not a Live Product
    Are players currently paying a sub to play?  I know my free beta key came with 3 months sub time but if people are paying for this then it’s at least in some ways a live product.

    Then they should call it that and not limited testing. They can't have it both ways. These guys are CoA incompetent. If it's testing then none of this should really be taken seriously because there should be a wipe at the end. If there is no wipe, then it's Live and they shouldn't get to hide their half-assed game behind a beta label. Don't go soft on me man.
    To my knowledge there are wipes planned for the future, but once again revolutionary thinking (sic) has lead to "selling" three month subs (minimum) to 'help" them test the game.

    Neither of which matters to my way of thinking what these players did crossed way over the line in terms of "testing" 

    Let's put it into perspective, were I to discover a way to potentially wipe the DB server for the application I support, I would open a bug ticket but would never go forward and actually wipe the DB, then go off and brag to my peers on a company web site about it, especially when it could take the DBAs several days to restore while everyone else sat around idle.

    I agree it was poor testing, of which the standards and environment are set by the developers. The professional way to do this is to let them know what is acceptable, what is not, and when people cross the line remove them from testing and let them know they can play again when the game is released.

    I've done a lot of closed NDA testing, this is not how professional studios do it. This is how clueless amateurs do it who are using their "testing" period to milk revenue from witless doofs.

    This actually did get reported on reddit, which isn't the best method, but it did go reported. The exploit occurred at a later time. Fallout 76 gets a lot of issues reported on reddit because Bethesda's bug report interface is often as broken as their game which it has been this week (both the game and bug reporting interface).

    The onus falls on the developers though, not on the civilians, because they're supposed to be the "pros" running their shit show. If they can't herd their tester-cats then they have no business selling sub time to test the game. It's scammy on the level of Chronicles of Elyria.

    But in the end I agree it wasn't appropriate testing behavior and they should have been removed from the test. Making it a banning drama scenario just confirms to me this studio are a bunch of rookies.
    Gdemami
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,620
    Rhoklaw said:
    Honestly, the fact its in BETA is a blessing, but what kind of morons do this and then not report it immediately?

    Cheaters..... CHECK

    Exploiters... CHECK

    Useless Players... CHECK

    No offense, but if you're testing a game and you don't care enough to report obvious flaws within the game this extensive immediately BEFORE you spend hours dismantling an in-game NPC marketplace, yes you DO deserve to get banned.

    It was apparently reported, on reddit (eyeroll), but I agree both the testers and studio are not acting professionally.
    GdemamiRhoklaw
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,690
    Rhoklaw said:
    Honestly, the fact its in BETA is a blessing, but what kind of morons do this and then not report it immediately?

    Cheaters..... CHECK

    Exploiters... CHECK

    Useless Players... CHECK

    No offense, but if you're testing a game and you don't care enough to report obvious flaws within the game this extensive immediately BEFORE you spend hours dismantling an in-game NPC marketplace, yes you DO deserve to get banned.
    Based on their rules for Item Duplication bugs, players are allowed to use item dupe bug that they find as long as they report within 48 hours.

    Now this isn't an item dupe bug, but when responding to community Novaquark representative also said:
     "...The players involved did not report this bug to us, but instead simply filled their pockets..."

    They kind of leave it open whether players would have been allowed to destroy the whole marketplace as long as they reported through appropriate channels. Since they do that, to me this looks like devs are more or less banning them for posting about it on reddit where the devs found it, instead of using the formal reporting tools and letting the devs find it that way.

    It feels too much like a group of butthurt devs handling permabans for something as simple as making sure the devs know about the bug but doing it through wrong channel.
    tzervoGdemamiTorvalmaskedweasel
     
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member LegendaryPosts: 7,410
    Vrika said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Honestly, the fact its in BETA is a blessing, but what kind of morons do this and then not report it immediately?

    Cheaters..... CHECK

    Exploiters... CHECK

    Useless Players... CHECK

    No offense, but if you're testing a game and you don't care enough to report obvious flaws within the game this extensive immediately BEFORE you spend hours dismantling an in-game NPC marketplace, yes you DO deserve to get banned.
    Based on their rules for Item Duplication bugs, players are allowed to use item dupe bug that they find as long as they report within 48 hours.

    Now this isn't an item dupe bug, but when responding to community Novaquark representative also said:
     "...The players involved did not report this bug to us, but instead simply filled their pockets..."

    They kind of leave it open whether players would have been allowed to destroy the whole marketplace as long as they reported through appropriate channels. Since they do that, to me this looks like devs are more or less banning them for posting about it on reddit where the devs found it, instead of using the formal reporting tools and letting the devs find it that way.

    It feels too much like a group of butthurt devs handling permabans for something as simple as making sure the devs know about the bug but doing it through wrong channel.
    The Devs clearly stated that the amount of time it took the players to dismantle the marketplace was clearly a sign of complete disregard for the purpose of testing and bug reporting as should be expected of players. I don't care how the Devs handle their game bug reporting. The players didn't care and continued to dismantle the marketplace long after knowing what they were doing was not an intended feature.

    People are either just plain stupid or extremely ignorant.
    SovrathKyleran

  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member UncommonPosts: 326
    Torval said:
    Sandmanjw said:
    More entitled idjits here than usual.

    This was a textbook reason for a ban, beta or not. They took the whole building that people could use to play the game. Not only making the dev's have to fix everything but stopped all the other players that wanted/needed to use it.

    This goes so far passed the point of an obvious exploit that will affect the whole game that should not be used, it is not even questionable.

    Anyone that thinks otherwise, i am sure the Dev's thank you for NOT being in their game, you would cause more problems than you would be worth.

    Thinking it is ok to cause damage and monetary loss and still get to play and have fun....idiots.




    If it's a test then people shouldn't be "playing" the game as if it were live. They should be testing and we've obviously forgotten that as a game community. I would argue the fault is mainly on the studios and publishers selling early access, crowd-funding, or whatever perpetual betas exist and playing games with words on the trusting who've they sucked into feeding their poor "developer" practices.

    Anyone can slap the word developer on their name now by claiming to make a game. That doesn't make them competent or smart. Game "developers" are a joke to most developers in other industries that have to make real software on an actual schedule within a real budget.

    This studio caused the issue by sending mixed messages about what they're doing and hiding behind a beta label. Professionals don't operate this way.
    I agree, i have posted a couple times about this game and the way they are handling the "beta". It is not even a game that i would care to play.

    But for people that think it is ok to damage others games....even if you are or are not paying goes so far passed the right and wrong of an issue there should be no argument.

    But they still do. It is amazing how people think it is ok to cost others time and money and that there should be little to no consequences. 

    Really hard to get more entitled than these folks.  Banning a few now will maybe give the message not to go too far.  There can, and will, be consequences. 


    TorvalKyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,791
    Rhoklaw said:
    Vrika said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Honestly, the fact its in BETA is a blessing, but what kind of morons do this and then not report it immediately?

    Cheaters..... CHECK

    Exploiters... CHECK

    Useless Players... CHECK

    No offense, but if you're testing a game and you don't care enough to report obvious flaws within the game this extensive immediately BEFORE you spend hours dismantling an in-game NPC marketplace, yes you DO deserve to get banned.
    Based on their rules for Item Duplication bugs, players are allowed to use item dupe bug that they find as long as they report within 48 hours.

    Now this isn't an item dupe bug, but when responding to community Novaquark representative also said:
     "...The players involved did not report this bug to us, but instead simply filled their pockets..."

    They kind of leave it open whether players would have been allowed to destroy the whole marketplace as long as they reported through appropriate channels. Since they do that, to me this looks like devs are more or less banning them for posting about it on reddit where the devs found it, instead of using the formal reporting tools and letting the devs find it that way.

    It feels too much like a group of butthurt devs handling permabans for something as simple as making sure the devs know about the bug but doing it through wrong channel.
    The Devs clearly stated that the amount of time it took the players to dismantle the marketplace was clearly a sign of complete disregard for the purpose of testing and bug reporting as should be expected of players. I don't care how the Devs handle their game bug reporting. The players didn't care and continued to dismantle the marketplace long after knowing what they were doing was not an intended feature.

    People are either just plain stupid or extremely ignorant.
    The only ignorance here is on the part of the developers. From their own site:

    "Theft Via RDMS: RDMS permissions and settings are the sole discretion of each player. We advise you take the time to get to know and understand the system and be cautious when making a construct or element usable by unknown players, including the use of your friends list. Not every player has your best interest at heart. We can not get involved with permission based theft, whether as an individual or an organization. We encourage you to review your friends list each time you add or remove someone and ensure your construct permissions are set accordingly. The context menu options that set public access currently do not have a confirmation prompt, be careful as setting public access to said construct will allow every player in Dual Universe to go into build mode and remove/place elements and voxels.  [Allowed]"

    They boast that if this happens to players, it's just a game feature and the players fault for screwing up. When the developers screw up.. they get to take their ball, ban the players, and go home and expect everyone else should just deal with it. 

    Sorry, but no. This is on the fault of the developers, and it's their fault for not being able to recover their own assets quickly. Also their fault for not responding to their own tickets, or posting something that states how they expect their OWN COMMUNITY to handle situations like this. 

    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 

    Obviously they are "new" to this. You don't go into a game, tell people it's okay to steal items that are set to public, but don't expect them to steal your sh*t when you screw up. 

    As for the banned players, it was as childish for the developers to do that to them as it was for them to knowingly take it and leave the note. 

    There is nothing wrong in what they did TBH. If it was another player, Novaquark would have just crossed their arms and said "thats the game" based on their own response to these kind of thefts. The trick here is that it happened to them, and they get to cry about it, but there's power behind those tears, and that's what's wrong with this situation. 

    Had this happened to anyone else, all of these people denying this is a problem, wouldn't have anything to say on the matter at all. 
    TorvalGdemamiRhoklaw



  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,690
    Rhoklaw said:
    Vrika said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Honestly, the fact its in BETA is a blessing, but what kind of morons do this and then not report it immediately?

    Cheaters..... CHECK

    Exploiters... CHECK

    Useless Players... CHECK

    No offense, but if you're testing a game and you don't care enough to report obvious flaws within the game this extensive immediately BEFORE you spend hours dismantling an in-game NPC marketplace, yes you DO deserve to get banned.
    Based on their rules for Item Duplication bugs, players are allowed to use item dupe bug that they find as long as they report within 48 hours.

    Now this isn't an item dupe bug, but when responding to community Novaquark representative also said:
     "...The players involved did not report this bug to us, but instead simply filled their pockets..."

    They kind of leave it open whether players would have been allowed to destroy the whole marketplace as long as they reported through appropriate channels. Since they do that, to me this looks like devs are more or less banning them for posting about it on reddit where the devs found it, instead of using the formal reporting tools and letting the devs find it that way.

    It feels too much like a group of butthurt devs handling permabans for something as simple as making sure the devs know about the bug but doing it through wrong channel.
    The Devs clearly stated that the amount of time it took the players to dismantle the marketplace was clearly a sign of complete disregard for the purpose of testing and bug reporting as should be expected of players. I don't care how the Devs handle their game bug reporting. The players didn't care and continued to dismantle the marketplace long after knowing what they were doing was not an intended feature.

    People are either just plain stupid or extremely ignorant.
    This is from pinned post on Novaquark's Rules & Annoucements forums:
    • For those who have been knowingly abusing bugs, you have 48 hours to report your activities via a ticket here: support.dualthegame.com - your duped proceeds will be removed, but no further action will be taken. Please select Gameplay in the first form drop-down, select the “Rules & Policies” > “Exploits” category and use the subject “Self Report”

    Source: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/20643-a-note-about-bug-exploitations/

    It's for item duplication bugs, and this not an item duplication bug. But the way I read it the idiot devs are giving players permission to knowingly abuse a bug as long as they also report it.
    GdemamimaskedweaselTorval
     
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,195
    edited October 2020


    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 


    It seems that from what you posted they are two different things.

    They are saying that players can steal from other players if you don't set their permissions correctly.

    that seems a different thing entirely from a bug that allows them to take things which should be reported no?
    Sandmanjw
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,791
    Sovrath said:


    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 


    It seems that from what you posted they are two different things.

    They are saying that players can steal from other players if you don't set their permissions correctly.

    that seems a different thing entirely from a bug that allows them to take things which should be reported no?
    But it wasn't a bug, was it? It was "working as intended", the developers just didn't set the permissions correctly, right? It's not a bug that the developers didn't set their creations as private any more or less than it is if a player doesn't set access properly.

    It wasn't them exploiting the system. They didn't duplicate anything. They didn't hack anything. From what I've seen, all they did is attempt to access it, realized it was public, just like any other player can or can't do, and once they realized the developers screwed up, they stole it. 


    GdemamiSandmanjw



  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,195
    Sovrath said:


    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 


    It seems that from what you posted they are two different things.

    They are saying that players can steal from other players if you don't set their permissions correctly.

    that seems a different thing entirely from a bug that allows them to take things which should be reported no?
    But it wasn't a bug, was it? It was "working as intended", the developers just didn't set the permissions correctly, right? It's not a bug that the developers didn't set their creations as private any more or less than it is if a player doesn't set access properly.

    It wasn't them exploiting the system. They didn't duplicate anything. They didn't hack anything. From what I've seen, all they did is attempt to access it, realized it was public, just like any other player can or can't do, and once they realized the developers screwed up, they stole it. 


    I would say that the developers not setting something correctly is a bug.
    KyleranSandmanjwRhoklaw
  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Gdemami said:


    mrputts said:
     Who cares if they were having a little fun with it. 


    ...other testers? Devs that then must fix the mess caused by bug exploitation? Staff/devs that has to go through investigation of said exploit? etc.

    Lots of dev wasted time there because some people can't behave. Maintaining public test server does not come free.



    It's in testing. This is what testing is for.
    The devs were going to have to fix it anyways. They wasted their own time by not properly implementing it when they initially made the change.
    The other players are choosing to be involved in testing, knowing that their time is going towards finding and helping to fix bugs which might require extended down time.

    Please, respond with your usual LoL emoji which is all you do to every post, no matter what has been said.
    maskedweaselGdemamiKyleranSandmanjw
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,791
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:


    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 


    It seems that from what you posted they are two different things.

    They are saying that players can steal from other players if you don't set their permissions correctly.

    that seems a different thing entirely from a bug that allows them to take things which should be reported no?
    But it wasn't a bug, was it? It was "working as intended", the developers just didn't set the permissions correctly, right? It's not a bug that the developers didn't set their creations as private any more or less than it is if a player doesn't set access properly.

    It wasn't them exploiting the system. They didn't duplicate anything. They didn't hack anything. From what I've seen, all they did is attempt to access it, realized it was public, just like any other player can or can't do, and once they realized the developers screwed up, they stole it. 


    I would say that the developers not setting something correctly is a bug.
    I think that would be a fair opinion, except, what they didn't set is something that's inherent to set or not set in the game. It's like if this was the developers personal account and they didn't set it on one of their buildings, is that a bug or a feature? 
    Gdemami



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,530
    Torval said:
    mrputts said:

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    I don't know if I would personally call this exploiting.

    ex·ploit
    verb
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).


    I don't believe it would fall under the text book definition of exploit. Doing it once and Posting about it is not making full use, nor is it really deriving benefit.

    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. Especially if they did try to reach the devs like the poster claims.

    Remember this is Beta testing. Not a Live Product
    Are players currently paying a sub to play?  I know my free beta key came with 3 months sub time but if people are paying for this then it’s at least in some ways a live product.

    Then they should call it that and not limited testing. They can't have it both ways. These guys are CoA incompetent. If it's testing then none of this should really be taken seriously because there should be a wipe at the end. If there is no wipe, then it's Live and they shouldn't get to hide their half-assed game behind a beta label. Don't go soft on me man.
    Oh I agree... I just don't know enough about it as I hadn't followed the game until I got my free 3 month key and that was just two days ago.  

    From what I can gather it's in the weird place where they call it beta.  Tell everyone it will have wipes.  But STILL charge people a sub.

    I think if I were (for some God forsaken reason) paying a sub for a beta and found out that the company was giving 3 free months away to thousands of people... I'd be very pissed.

    But to your question... I dunno... what do you call a game that is promising multiple wipes but also charging a sub?  Almost Live?  Half Dead? 
    maskedweaselXodicTorvalKyleranGdemamiSandmanjw

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,195
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:


    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 


    It seems that from what you posted they are two different things.

    They are saying that players can steal from other players if you don't set their permissions correctly.

    that seems a different thing entirely from a bug that allows them to take things which should be reported no?
    But it wasn't a bug, was it? It was "working as intended", the developers just didn't set the permissions correctly, right? It's not a bug that the developers didn't set their creations as private any more or less than it is if a player doesn't set access properly.

    It wasn't them exploiting the system. They didn't duplicate anything. They didn't hack anything. From what I've seen, all they did is attempt to access it, realized it was public, just like any other player can or can't do, and once they realized the developers screwed up, they stole it. 


    I would say that the developers not setting something correctly is a bug.
    I think that would be a fair opinion, except, what they didn't set is something that's inherent to set or not set in the game. It's like if this was the developers personal account and they didn't set it on one of their buildings, is that a bug or a feature? 
    But it's not a personal account. They set up this market or whatever it is, something was "bugged" not "ticked" not set up correctly, players found it and didn't report it or if they did it wasn't quick. Not only was it not reported they decided to just mess with it.

    A quick bug report saying "hey, you might not be aware of this but this market isn't set up correctly and we can literally take everything." is what was required.


    Kyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,791
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:


    You see how they aren't really depicting this as an issue within their own TOS but rather an issue with the "moral character" of the players. 


    It seems that from what you posted they are two different things.

    They are saying that players can steal from other players if you don't set their permissions correctly.

    that seems a different thing entirely from a bug that allows them to take things which should be reported no?
    But it wasn't a bug, was it? It was "working as intended", the developers just didn't set the permissions correctly, right? It's not a bug that the developers didn't set their creations as private any more or less than it is if a player doesn't set access properly.

    It wasn't them exploiting the system. They didn't duplicate anything. They didn't hack anything. From what I've seen, all they did is attempt to access it, realized it was public, just like any other player can or can't do, and once they realized the developers screwed up, they stole it. 


    I would say that the developers not setting something correctly is a bug.
    I think that would be a fair opinion, except, what they didn't set is something that's inherent to set or not set in the game. It's like if this was the developers personal account and they didn't set it on one of their buildings, is that a bug or a feature? 
    But it's not a personal account. They set up this market or whatever it is, something was "bugged" not "ticked" not set up correctly, players found it and didn't report it or if they did it wasn't quick. Not only was it not reported they decided to just mess with it.

    A quick bug report saying "hey, you might not be aware of this but this market isn't set up correctly and we can literally take everything." is what was required.


    Reports state (though hard to substantiate, as it was several reddit posters that mention it) that this was mentioned two days prior to the incident.

    It wasn't a personal account, no, it wasn't an account at all technically. The developers made a mistake, but the players didn't do anything "wrong" either. The scope of what's "wrong" in this situation is only because it was a developer asset and not a player. I just find it as an extreme knee jerk reaction from the developers that they would ban players that actually play the game, attempted to contact them prior to and during the heist, when in reality, the players really didn't go out of their way to do this. 

    The problem isn't that the developers weren't warned, or that these players even really did it, it seems that it's because they're embarrassed and now have to find a way to recreate the market, which is time consuming for them to do. 

    In the end the developers still lose, because they banned paying players who actually enjoyed the game. For what this game is, I don't think they should be shunning players based on the development teams mistakes. 
    MendelGdemami



Sign In or Register to comment.