Probably for the same reason they're done in color instead of green on black like the old days
It's just a better visual experience than the 2D it replaced.
I don't think there's any real doubt that full color looks better than monochrome. With 2D versus 3D, it's not so clear cut. Badly done 3D can readily look worse than a lot of 2D games.
Well as a long time photography hobbyist I can say the same thing about bad color being worse than monochrome.
Regardless, adding the third dimension to gaming landscape is undeniably a worthy advancement just like color photography was when it became common.
I've been playing games on computers since the early '80s so I'm very familiar with what it was like to play without true 3D for 20 years and the 20 years since that became common.
I know that all things old are trendy these days but I see retro stuff for the niche curiosities they are. Actually preferring the older tech just seems to me like borderline neo-luddism.
I was also alive for the transition from 2D to 3D. To my eyes, most of the early 3D games looked awful. Developers were trying to make things 3D for the sake of making them 3D, even though the hardware wasn't yet powerful enough to make it look decent. It wasn't until about 2005 that I thought that state of the art 3D graphics had advanced to the point that they looked better than 2D.
Worse, with the transition to 3D, a lot of developers just gave up on making their games easy to control and went with camera angles that tried to emphasize their ugly graphics rather than giving players a good view of the action so that you could actually play the game. To this day, I regard the era from about 1997-2002 as a sort of dark ages when not very many worthwhile games were made. There were some good 2D games from that era, but many developers had moved away from 2D, and the 3D games were almost universally garbage.
I enjoy a lots western 2D indle games , but when it come to western 2D MMORPG ... UO (1997)
I can't remember other good 2D western MMORPG ,
probably , and most likely 3d has higher play base then isometric games. looking at UO, it looks aweful, people like myself are very shallow and want pretty games to play. Most of the prettty is in 3d #xD
Some people like spaghettis , some like meatballs and suace, other just eat the raw noodle. which spaghettis are you ?~!
Of course UO look awful , it make at 1997. But the problem also the art director , look at diablo 1 in same year and you will see the difference . And 2D diablo 2 (2002) is another level
BTW UO is not pure 2D , it kind of a fake 3D but wasn't did right so the game look kind of bad compare to other 2D game around that time.
If you talk about pure 2D at then it's something like knight of the round table (1991) or Arcade Dungeons & Dragons (1994) (1996)
I like all spaghettis that done right, pure texts or 2d or 3d . But You can't stomach something that done bad
I just want to ask why there is lacking of 2D western MMORPG compare to other genres .
I got some answer like
hardware push ( make heavy games so people have to upgrade PC)
the modern development tools are mostly built for 3D games
2D games work fine if the action is fast. But the more down time or travelling you have, the less immersive 2D is for me. I felt the same way with regard to Terraria.
I guess it just depends on what audience you shoot for. Cuphead did very well and Smash Brothers just keeps on going. Both are 2D platformers, though, not MMOs.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
...and both are exceptions proving the existence of the rule.
The answer is probably on 3 levels:
1) there is probably overall more 2D than 3D games because they are more accessible
2) there is more successfull 3D than 2D games
3) due increased cost and challenge in making an MMO, 2D games to large extent lose advantage of accessibility and coupled with lower popularity of 2D results in next to none "new" 2D MMORPGs being made.
1) games where the underlying graphical methods are 3D, but the gameplay is fundamentally 2D, and 2) sprite-based games where the underlying graphical methods are 2D.
For example, Spiral Knights or Elsword are the first type, as they're graphically 3D games, even if the camera is locked to overhead or side-scroling, respectively.
When asking why most MMOs are 3D, are you counting the first type as 3D or not?
Well ultimately, the 3d World set up allows for a fuller imerson.
Why it is king, is because UO and EQ started out as the first major MMO's in the west. EQ kicked ass, WoW built off EQ, and WoW, kicked everyone's ass.
So.. yah..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
2D games is what we all had when nothing else was available. 2D is literally a relic of the past.
I love full 3D MMORPGs in part because they are immersive. I can't have that experience looking at flat sprites in a flat world, with only isometric views to suggest dimension. If a 2D game had fantastic art I might be interested, but all too often they are cartoony as well which puts me further off.
Games had to evolve, we could not still be playing Pong. Even though I suggested Isometric recently for new MMO crowd funded games, it is unlikely I would play them. VR is the next frontier though for me the tech is not quite there yet. Lets look to the future not the past when it comes to graphics.
You said it yourself - 2D graphics allows significant cost savings, therefore proportionaly to add the mmo part is more expensive for 2D than 3D game.
Regardless, imo more relevant part is the challenge. While mmo part is relatively cheap, takes lots of skill and is too large bite to chew for small studios/single dev.
3) due increased cost and challenge in making an MMO, 2D games to large extent lose advantage of accessibility ...
Not sure about that one. Sure the percentage of effort going into graphics compared to the overall effort in making the MMO is smaller when compared to other genres but it is still quoted as one of the most expensive parts of development. I understand that studios that go for 2D/isometric/bird's eye graphics and/or movement still do it because they see significant development cost savings (i.e. Albion Online).
Although this has to do with lower fidelity as much as with the dimensionality (i.e. Project Gorgon, lower fidelity but still 3D, 2-man studio).
Also OP is a bit vague. Do they mean graphics dimensionality or i.e. games like Albion where the models are 3D and there is a height variation to the world but the view is bird's eye and the movement is on the ground (on a surface and not on a 3D volume, no falling/jumping/flying).
I never said any thing vague , 2D is 2D , 3D is 3D . 3D with locked camera is 3D , did i ever said them 2D ? i don't remember , or maybe i grow old and forget .
If someone can't tell a game is 2D or not , it isn't my fault .
BTW , if said about realistic , mortal kombat (1992) is pretty "realistic" than most 3D nowadays . That kind of ironic .
I don't know the reason, but most modern 2D games i've seen in the last few years look like mobile games (with paper-like poorly animated character models). If that's the direction 2D game design is going for then i rather see more 3D games.
I don't know the reason, but most modern 2D games i've seen in the last few years look like mobile games (with paper-like poorly animated character models). If that's the direction 2D game design is going for then i rather see more 3D games.
Because of the game engine i think . They stop using sprites .
in older 2D games you see sprite sheet with frames . But it seem like they don't use frames nowaday , something like live 2d
Nvm: again, 3D (very simplistic) models, 2D movement... but it might still be worth a look by you, depending on what you are looking for in these 2D MMOs.
The new Guilty Gear games take it even further and apply outlines and pixel filters to their 3D models on a 2D plane, it really, really looks like sprites but with animation that makes you drool. A gameplay video below, I think from a graphical point of view it blows every other fighting game out of the water:
I am not a slave to graphics but I would like to use my Nvidia 1070 GTX where possible but I won't shun a game with low end graphics because hey I still play on P99.
I enjoy a lots western 2D indle games , but when it come to western 2D MMORPG ... UO (1997)
I can't remember other good 2D western MMORPG ,
When for profit companies choose not to provide something it is because it is seen as having a low profit potential compared to other available options, making it a poor use of their resources.
Comments
Worse, with the transition to 3D, a lot of developers just gave up on making their games easy to control and went with camera angles that tried to emphasize their ugly graphics rather than giving players a good view of the action so that you could actually play the game. To this day, I regard the era from about 1997-2002 as a sort of dark ages when not very many worthwhile games were made. There were some good 2D games from that era, but many developers had moved away from 2D, and the 3D games were almost universally garbage.
It is no rocket science...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The answer is probably on 3 levels:
1) there is probably overall more 2D than 3D games because they are more accessible
2) there is more successfull 3D than 2D games
3) due increased cost and challenge in making an MMO, 2D games to large extent lose advantage of accessibility and coupled with lower popularity of 2D results in next to none "new" 2D MMORPGs being made.
Note: They are still some being made.
1) games where the underlying graphical methods are 3D, but the gameplay is fundamentally 2D, and
2) sprite-based games where the underlying graphical methods are 2D.
For example, Spiral Knights or Elsword are the first type, as they're graphically 3D games, even if the camera is locked to overhead or side-scroling, respectively.
When asking why most MMOs are 3D, are you counting the first type as 3D or not?
Why it is king, is because UO and EQ started out as the first major MMO's in the west. EQ kicked ass, WoW built off EQ, and WoW, kicked everyone's ass.
So.. yah..
https://youtu.be/-6UPpaoRKbk
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"I'm all for VR helmets."
Once upon a time....
Regardless, imo more relevant part is the challenge. While mmo part is relatively cheap, takes lots of skill and is too large bite to chew for small studios/single dev.
https://youtu.be/vxYePOHAmVU
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer