American work culture is super fucked, to the point that working long hours and having minimal time off, shit benefits is expected as normal.
It isn't normal.
And please don't go down the road of naming even worse work cultures in other countries like Japan, Korea etc... that shit is downright abusive
I'm definitely not saying being overworked is a good thing. We all know that even as salaried employees it's nearly impossible to get all your comp hours at times; sometimes you are working for free depending on the industry and or company.
My only point is here in the US outside of some unionized work, in some jobs, mainly manufacturing you are somewhat mandatorily obliged to work overtime as demands on particular goods increase during certain times of the year.
It's about job survival and it's become the norm to some extent. Even as a white collar engineer in a blue collar industry. Even doctors and nurses work ridiculous ours depending on demand for their services. That's why most employers like hiring vets, because they come from a world where your job and hours are less up for debate. It's about getting as much work as you can out of people and having as few people on the payroll as possible. If we want to survive we do so willingly.
Yeah so? Some factories here in the US have mandatory 7 day weeks once in a while or 6 days weeks more than once in a while, I once worked at a summer job at a canning place that was 14 hour days 5 days a week.
Maybe long overtime weeks are unheard of in Poland, but not elsewhere.
Some roles(positions) simply have much greater impact and are more difficult to supplement than others. Common sense.
There is nothing wrong or shamefull about manual labor.
Except what you say here has nothing to do with what you were saying in the quote.
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants". The term nowadays is only ever used in a degrading, condescending manner.
Furthermore your "idea" that what manual laborers do is "unimportant" is a fallacy...
....would like to see you sit on your high horse looking down at the "peasants" if they decided.... frack this... and stopped growing your food, preparing your food, picking up your garbage, making your cloths, etc etc.
What most "hourly laborers" do keeps the world turning and is very important even if we have evolved into a whiny, entitled society that doesn't see the value of it until it hurts us personally.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
The importance/responsibility, cannot be measured in hourly rate. You are simply paid to get the job done. ------- These are not poor working conditions, they are simply more demanding(and rewarding)jobs.
While I agree with the above (and I would also add: infinitely more complex, which is why you cannot predict the necessary work in hours, no matter what your contract pays lip service to, and one of the reasons they get paid a lot more), I disagree with this:
Gdemami said: Hourly jobs are for peasants where what they do is unimportant enough to be left undone.
Unwarranted hyperbole. Our neighbourhood's baker is still putting an honest 8 hours of hard work and his product is valuable. I do not dare dismiss that and it is disrespectful to look down on him, I am grateful for his work.
That was some clown **** right there. I don't think Gdemami knows wtf he's talking about. All jobs have their importance otherwise they wouldn't exist. I don't know any long haul truck drivers personally and even though some get paid by the mile I would say their jobs are pretty fucking important to the rest of us. I also don't know any farm laborers personally either; but if the work was left undone I know Gdemami wouldn't be eating. This is the BS division we don't need right now. I refuse to look down on other people. Everyone is important in the machine that is America. Division is vulnerability.
It's only news because of the public stance they took previously. This is the one time of year where they really can't delay the release much longer though, so it makes sense.
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
Actually, the real shameful part is many companies are letting `'peasants`' endure the same extreme hours and pressure without the actual reward and give them a false sense of pride and purpose so they actually do it, THAT is the real shameful part. And being an anonymous douche online insulting the entire working class, thats pretty shameful too.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
You are confusing "important" with training.
It is important that trash is removed from towns and cities, it is important that people can have a venue staffed with people where they can buy food that is most likely brought there by people who are also important.
However, the skills for those important jobs do not require years of schooling or training and therefore do not demand the same type of money.
And if memory serves, even plumbers and electricians and carpenters have hourly wages yet they are important.
And those jobs do require a bit more training.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
You are confusing "important" with training.
It is important that trash is removed from towns and cities, it is important that people can have a venue staffed with people where they can buy food that is most likely brought there by people who are also important.
However, the skills for those important jobs do not require years of schooling or training and therefore do not demand the same type of money.
And if memory serves, even plumbers and electricians and carpenters have hourly wages yet they are important.
And those jobs do require a bit more training.
Ah good old capitalism circa 1950s. You work a menial but important job so we're going to pay you shit... if you want better pay go be a skilled tradesmen.
Bullshit. If a job is important enough to need to pay someone to do it, then it's deserves a living wage not "pay them just enough so the government doesn't breath down our necks" (ie minimum wage).
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
You are confusing "important" with training.
It is important that trash is removed from towns and cities, it is important that people can have a venue staffed with people where they can buy food that is most likely brought there by people who are also important.
However, the skills for those important jobs do not require years of schooling or training and therefore do not demand the same type of money.
And if memory serves, even plumbers and electricians and carpenters have hourly wages yet they are important.
And those jobs do require a bit more training.
Ah good old capitalism circa 1950s. You work a menial but important job so we're going to pay you shit... if you want better pay go be a skilled tradesmen.
Bullshit. If a job is important enough to need to pay someone to do it, then it's deserves a living wage not "pay them just enough so the government doesn't breath down our necks" (ie minimum wage).
Never did say that an hourly worker didn't deserve a living wage so calm down.
I am saying that it takes less training to replace certain positions and therefore they make less.
I should add, I don't think a grocery clerk should be making six figures nor do I think a mail man should be making "bank." I do think they should make enough money to eat, pay rent or mortgage, pay bills and have some left over for some fun/savings.
if you think they deserve six figures then great. i don't. Heck, my job doesn't deserve to make six figures and I wouldn't expect it to.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
American work culture is super fucked, to the point that working long hours and having minimal time off, shit benefits is expected as normal.
It isn't normal.
And please don't go down the road of naming even worse work cultures in other countries like Japan, Korea etc... that shit is downright abusive
So much this, working culture in the USA is abominable. It does not represent the rest of western working society in the slightest.
”All hands on deck” is just a euphemism for getting abused by your boss and being conditioned into believing that is normal.
What is being addressed here is an issue because outside of the USA these aren’t acceptable working conditions.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
LOL it is called a job...if you do not like it find one you do. When they say work or die...then i will care.
I have a great job actually thank you. It includes 10 weeks off a year, which are being paid. It includes a company car which I can use privately unlimited with gas being paid for by the company, unlimited. I have a 40 hour work week which my employer guards fiercely and all my traveling time to and from work falls within those 40 hours and is being paid for. In case of an emergency I can take leave and will still get paid etc. etc. I think you get the picture.
What you call a job is being considered rather shitty by many other civilized countries. Being used to extremely low standards doesn’t make them okay, defending them is even worse. There is no pride in overtime, there is no worth in working under extreme conditions, there is no victory in working 50 out of 52 weeks a year, its hollow nonsense.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
that is nice kid, you are the smallest privileged, you could even be called a company exec, with this much thing
now why you don't toss it all up and start a bussiness and see how things go, hmmm?
most company can't give this much because they can't do that, there
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
You are confusing "important" with training.
It is important that trash is removed from towns and cities, it is important that people can have a venue staffed with people where they can buy food that is most likely brought there by people who are also important.
However, the skills for those important jobs do not require years of schooling or training and therefore do not demand the same type of money.
And if memory serves, even plumbers and electricians and carpenters have hourly wages yet they are important.
And those jobs do require a bit more training.
Ah good old capitalism circa 1950s. You work a menial but important job so we're going to pay you shit... if you want better pay go be a skilled tradesmen.
Bullshit. If a job is important enough to need to pay someone to do it, then it's deserves a living wage not "pay them just enough so the government doesn't breath down our necks" (ie minimum wage).
A "living wage" is thrown around to much and has different meanings depending on who you talk too. To a person it may mean enough to survive and have enough left over for basic needs. To a politician it is how high can I make the number to get votes.
Very few places where I live pay the federal minimum wage. I think even McD's starts are $14/hr here. That in my mind is a bit above where I would pay a fry cook but you need them if you are the company and the company is willing to pay it so good for them.
My Uncle was talking to me about my inheritance and I asked if it would be enough to support my brother for a year since he has run into some "issues."
he said "oh no! Then again, I don't know how anyone could live off of less than 75k per year"
So yeah, people have different ideas of what is a "living wage."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You made it out to be shameful when you labeled people working in hourly wage jobs as, "peasants".
...erm no. The shameful part is being an ignorant moron who doesn't understand there are more demanding jobs that aren't paid by hourly wage, that is what the designation was aimed at, not the manual labor itself.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
The only things moronic here is your comments and lame back peddling or outright hypocrisy.
You are suddenly claiming you said one thing when you actual said another...it was so plain there can be no confusion except maybe in your mind.
You said their jobs are unimportant to the point they can be left undone.....again a fallacy and so is your arrogant, entitled, moronic argument, here let me refresh your obviously short memory.....
Hourly jobs are for peasants where what they do is unimportant enough to be left undone.
Maybe you find the term or word "important" equates to a better paying job but then you would be incorrect...anyone who has actually held a job knows that your paycheck does not equate to the importance of your job...
You keep lobbing those lol's though if it makes you feel smarter or that your weak arguments impress anyone but yourself...lol
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
No, I am not. You don't understand the difference between skill and ability.
Anyone can become an electrician or plumber but not all electricians or plumbers can become physicists or engineers.
Anyway, I am done with discussion where people think that CEO of a company employing 10k people is as important as the lowest paid worker..... that is way beyond my tolerance for stupidity and it is low even for these boards...
Umm - wow these comments about "not sure what the big deal is"
In this particular case I really do not see what the big deal is. If anything it makes the company look good.
I know that companies exploit workers, and that unfair treatment appears to be fairly common in the gaming industry, but that is clearly not the case here.
The main issue is the company/manager or whoever should never have ruled out a "crunch-time" in the first place, it was an unrealistic and irresponsible promise to make, even though his heart was in the right place.
Comments
Remember when I said you were a poster child for the Dunning Kruger effect? Guess what, it is showing, again.
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Maybe long overtime weeks are unheard of in Poland, but not elsewhere.
Some roles(positions) simply have much greater impact and are more difficult to supplement than others. Common sense.
There is nothing wrong or shamefull about manual labor.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
That was some clown **** right there. I don't think Gdemami knows wtf he's talking about. All jobs have their importance otherwise they wouldn't exist. I don't know any long haul truck drivers personally and even though some get paid by the mile I would say their jobs are pretty fucking important to the rest of us. I also don't know any farm laborers personally either; but if the work was left undone I know Gdemami wouldn't be eating. This is the BS division we don't need right now. I refuse to look down on other people. Everyone is important in the machine that is America. Division is vulnerability.
No, it isn't a fallacy - manual labor roles are less "important" since it is much easier to replace them, thus why they are paid less and by an hour.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
It is important that trash is removed from towns and cities, it is important that people can have a venue staffed with people where they can buy food that is most likely brought there by people who are also important.
However, the skills for those important jobs do not require years of schooling or training and therefore do not demand the same type of money.
And if memory serves, even plumbers and electricians and carpenters have hourly wages yet they are important.
And those jobs do require a bit more training.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ah good old capitalism circa 1950s. You work a menial but important job so we're going to pay you shit... if you want better pay go be a skilled tradesmen.
Bullshit. If a job is important enough to need to pay someone to do it, then it's deserves a living wage not "pay them just enough so the government doesn't breath down our necks" (ie minimum wage).
I am saying that it takes less training to replace certain positions and therefore they make less.
I should add, I don't think a grocery clerk should be making six figures nor do I think a mail man should be making "bank." I do think they should make enough money to eat, pay rent or mortgage, pay bills and have some left over for some fun/savings.
if you think they deserve six figures then great. i don't. Heck, my job doesn't deserve to make six figures and I wouldn't expect it to.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
that is nice kid, you are the smallest privileged, you could even be called a company exec, with this much thing
now why you don't toss it all up and start a bussiness and see how things go, hmmm?
most company can't give this much because they can't do that, there
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
he said "oh no! Then again, I don't know how anyone could live off of less than 75k per year"
So yeah, people have different ideas of what is a "living wage."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The only things moronic here is your comments and lame back peddling or outright hypocrisy.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Anyone can become an electrician or plumber but not all electricians or plumbers can become physicists or engineers.
Anyway, I am done with discussion where people think that CEO of a company employing 10k people is as important as the lowest paid worker..... that is way beyond my tolerance for stupidity and it is low even for these boards...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In this particular case I really do not see what the big deal is. If anything it makes the company look good.
I know that companies exploit workers, and that unfair treatment appears to be fairly common in the gaming industry, but that is clearly not the case here.
The main issue is the company/manager or whoever should never have ruled out a "crunch-time" in the first place, it was an unrealistic and irresponsible promise to make, even though his heart was in the right place.