Having just had a pop at people for not starting threads, I realised I hardly ever do a thread; hoisted, petard etc.
So it is time to talk about where gamming is going money wise and trying to work out where we will be in the future. Quick synopsis: we went from over the counter sales and monthly subscriptions to pay every which way with hangers on riding for free.
Thinking about those free players first of all, how free is free? It is really only a feature of MMOish games where I think developers want numbers as well as players. Well we know you can play for free and if you are prepared to spend oodles of time on a MMO you can see a fair chunk of the game. It is a sub par experience though and unless you think other players are only to be seen and not interacted with, just having extra numbers does not do much for a MMO. Personally I have rarely found anyone who is F2P prepared to put any effort into a guild, but if that's not your experience lets hear it.
As to the money, I don't put my money where my mouth is, but what I mean by that is that I never pre-order, do crowd funding or the like. Outside of indie what companies truly need this upfront money? Gaming companies never needed this money before and now we have AAA releases like Destiny and MA expecting you to fund them before there is enough content in the game. Will you stand for that? Well enough of us do, where I think we should be reaching out is to the kids who are allowing this to happen, get on Reddit and whatever they use and say this is a crap situation. If they don't wise up, us old farts banging on will achieve nothing.
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Someone may say, "but if you want a certain kind of game ...." If I do, and if that game can survive in the market, it will. It should not depend on me. If it depends on me, the moment I stop funding it, it dies. That is because it is driven by charity, not market demand.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
As far as dlc goes, I generally will purchase substantive story dlc or expansions. I generally won't purchase cosmetics for single player games (I might if I REALLY like them), but will purchase them for online ones.
Oftentimes, my motivation for preordering will be to have a desired game in the mail on release day, often in tandem with vacation time. This year, I did that for Ghost of Tsushima and will be doing it again for Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity.
Next year, I'll probably be doing this with YS IX: Monstrum Nox or Trails of Cold Steel IV, as these have skyrocketed to my favorite franchise list this year. And the financially struggling Falcom needs and deserves support more than most.
I pre order.
I buy double (sometimes triple).
I buy expansions.
I buy DLC.
I crowdfund.
I most definitely and unashamedly put my money where my mouth is, and then some. Money makes the world go round and nothing comes for free. Gaming is a dirt cheap hobby and I gladly support that which I love. It is definitely better than endless whining with nothing to play for it. Also, adapt. Just because many “gamers” stagnated early 2000s doesn’t mean the industry did. If it doesn’t fit you anymore watch Frozen a couple of times, ‘Let it go, let it goooooo.’
Just my 2 cents, I have never been happier gaming then I am right now.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Given that I tend to like things that aren't popular on the market I'll gladly help fund something, doesn't have to be a game, if I know that it's in good hands and will continue or come to fruition.
If I was to rely upon "the market" to bring me things I like I'd get very few things I like.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Well I buy after seeing the reviews, so its hardly like I think gaming should be free. It is putting in with only the expectation of a good product I am questioning.
I am not sure I would call gaming a "dirt cheap" hobby, just been looking at MA £50 is not "dirt cheap". But I would not say overall it was super expensive either, I would call it a significant expenditure. And you know its not actually the 50 smackers I am complaining about , it is what we are getting for them and will have to keep paying afterwards to keep up with the game.
Just my £50, really not happy with how games are funded right now.
Hint, hint. If the Divinity Original Sin people want to get on that, I'd back it right the fuck now.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I only had one "game breaking bug" which was a crash to desktop when I entered a certain cave. I did have a crash in the very first keep when you are running from the dragon and there is a collapse blocking you from the bridge you crossed but a restart and a 2nd attempt was fine.
Still, those games do have a lot of bugs.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And if someone wants to finance and build a game by crowd funding, so long as they are acting in good faith, that's fine too.
Just speaking for myself, I will wait for release before I spend.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I love music, much, much more then gaming. My favorite artist of all time is David Bowie. I consider every one of his records an absolute masterpiece, his final work Blackstar might be my favourite album ever. And then he died. And I looked at the current music scene trying to find my David Bowie. Many were influenced by him but none came even close to being him, everything disappointed. And then I stopped looking, I realised that there isn't a new Bowie and there doesn't have to be one. I didn't let music go, I did let go of my mindset and still greatly enjoy music, even new artists.
Ahh well, I am rambling. I do know that when my love for gaming is gone, or when games aren't being made for me anymore, I will just walk away. I already have a 30 year great run anyways.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
To give an idea here, I still spend as much on games as I always have, how much I spend has not ever changed, simply where it went changed, this is how voting works in my mind.
Case in point, when GW2, put out HoT and raids, I got fed up and left. I played other games and spent my money there.
Now keep in mind that is not the same as those people that swear they will never spend a cent on game XYZ again, for whatever butthurt reasons they may have, and yet religiously play the game they will never spend any money on.
To me, this was me, saying "Ok, you don't feel I am a valuable market, and you want to run off and pursue another demographic, I wish you well and hope they pick up the bill, meanwhile, I will spend the money I was going to spend on your game somewhere else"
In no way did I stop spending money on a hobby I love and enjoy.
See that to me what voting with your wallet means.. it means you continue to support stuff, but you focus on what you want to support, and give them your money.
When people see the money move, they will follow it.
If they don't see the money move, they have nothing to follow.
Just my feels on it.
So, yes, I spend money on games, I never stopped spending my money, and if I opt to stop spending money on game, I damn well spend it on other ones.
That way.. people have something to follow.. and that IMHO, is how you vote with your wallet.
A Closed wallet casts no votes.
I never pre order
I only buy once
I buy expansions on sale
I buy dlc on sale
I never crowdfund
I usually only buy on sale
However, I agree with your post and logic. I dont have to do what you do to agree with your thought process.
You do you, and i do me.
. . . Another $1k usd into project entropia . . .
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I agree, but I still don't think numbers do much for a MMO in terms of gameplay. We know many players like to see capes rushing past them, but in terms of interaction it means zilch. This thread was a personal take you know.
Sadly true, but I would add expensively to that, one thing they are not saving is money.
I am banging on about how people spend their money, but I have nothing against crowd funding, just questioning the funding model when it goes too far. My concern here is more how AAA are learning from CF and are deciding to put out "launched" games in what is really an early access state. I am always going to give indie more leeway, they don't have the finance to start with.
cameltosis said: I have suggested before on here that advertising would be preferable to some of the funding models we now have. The problem there is that we know it will become just another part of the "cash shop". Advertising will not replace elements of bad funding, it will just be added to them and not enough of us will object, games will still be bought in droves even with product placement.
Because that's been the history of financing games, they come up with something new and we just keep accepting it. I mentioned in my post that I would look at the future and forgot to write about that. This is where I think gaming will go next, sit back and have a drink from your cocoa cola themed tankard in the inn, what could possibly be wrong with that?!
P.S. As much as I disagree with Lahnmir on this he is a Bowie fan, so at least he knows his music.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR