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AMD announces that they will make some announcements in October.

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
They're going to announce something or other about Zen 3 (next gen CPUs) on October 8, and then something about RDNA 2 (next gen GPUs) on October 28.  They've also announced that the latter will be marketed as the Radeon RX 6000 series.

It's not clear exactly what they'll announce.  These likely won't be actual product launches.  It could easily be something analogous to Nvidia's Ampere announcements from last week.

On the CPU side, AMD is pretty much the market leader already.  Zen 3 will probably extend their advantage, and may finally erase Intel's edge in strictly single-threaded performance if you buy their top end chips.  I expect that Zen 3 will offer increased performance at about the same price points as before.

On the GPU side, AMD is promising a 50% increase in performance per watt as compared to RDNA.  It's not clear how that will compare to Ampere, but it's likely that they'll be competitive.  AMD has also promised that there will be a big Navi chip, which they didn't do for their previous generation, so it's likely that AMD will have something competitive higher up the chain than they have in recent generations.

I think there are some clues in Nvidia's Ampere pricing.  Nvidia is charging $1500 for a GeForce RTX 3090, but $700 for an RTX 3080.  To have the cut-down version cost less than half of the price of the top GeForce card is very unusual, and I can't think of any previous generation that did anything remotely similar.  There are two obvious explanations:

1)  Yields are terrible and Nvidia will hardly be able to build any RTX 3090s, so they have to charge an enormous price to keep them in stock, or
2)  Nvidia expects to have monopoly pricing power on the RTX 3090 but not the RTX 3080.  That is, they expect AMD to have a GPU that is competitive with the RTX 3080 but nothing that can touch the RTX 3090 anytime soon.

It's not clear how big of a lineup AMD will launch with RDNA 2.  There will be the consoles, of course.  But it might just be a single, large chip that is their new flagship, while they continue to sell (and possibly rebrand) older cards for their lower end parts.  Similarly, it's not clear how much of a lineup Nvidia will offer with Ampere.  I'm halfway expecting them to keep the GeForce GTX 1600 series around for quite some time and not have an Ampere replacement in that price or performance range.

A big Navi chip, like any other big chip, won't be cheap, of course.  Or at least, not unless AMD is forced to sell it for much less than they intended because the chip isn't competitive.  If it's competitive with an RTX 3080 on performance, it probably will be on, price, too.  Meaning, expect to pay about $700 or so for the top card, not $400.
GdemamiWaanDakeru
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Comments

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,403
    My bet is big navi is a multi chiplet design like Ryzen. Heat will be a big issue with a big Navi given a 50% increase in performance per watt. The 5700XT ran hot. I don't think it will compete with the RTX 3090. It's too much heat dissipation to be worth it.

    Right now AMDs major issue will be getting development support. Over the past decade the big issue has been developers receiving support from NVidia and it artificially impacting the performance of AMD. Now NVidia's market share is so high in the PC market that it will be difficult for AMD to get support unless they actively push for it. They need people at Unreal and Unity to get optimizations specific for AMD. This will help them reach a larger developer base as most developers use what the engine provides. They also need to people doing the same support for titles that are typically benchmarked.
    We know what happens when developers optimize for AMD like in the console market with games that are ported to PC using minimal changes. I suspect most PC games have nVidia provided shaders that make specific nVidia calls and if it isn't a nVidia GPU it calls the CPU.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited September 2020
    Quizzical said:
    On the CPU side, AMD is pretty much the market leader already.  
    ....yeah.
    ChildoftheShadowsAsm0deus
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    My thought is AMD will go towards the low end of the 30XX line and be super competitive with the 3060/3070 and then go after the 3080/3090. With the chiplet design, AMD should be able to make the cards cheaper with the same performance. 


  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    edited September 2020
    Quizzical said:




    I think there are some clues in Nvidia's Ampere pricing.  Nvidia is charging $1500 for a GeForce RTX 3090, but $700 for an RTX 3080.  To have the cut-down version cost less than half of the price of the top GeForce card is very unusual, and I can't think of any previous generation that did anything remotely similar.  There are two obvious explanations:


    You'd have to think the 24GB of GDDR6 would bump up the price, too.  It must be expensive if they are hellbent on sticking with 8GB on the 3070.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    Gdemami said:
    Quizzical said:
    On the CPU side, AMD is pretty much the market leader already.  
    ....yeah.
    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189

    Amazon says it updates hourly, but as of this writing, 11 of the top 12 CPUs are AMD.
    Gdemami[Deleted User]Dakeru
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    Quizzical said:




    I think there are some clues in Nvidia's Ampere pricing.  Nvidia is charging $1500 for a GeForce RTX 3090, but $700 for an RTX 3080.  To have the cut-down version cost less than half of the price of the top GeForce card is very unusual, and I can't think of any previous generation that did anything remotely similar.  There are two obvious explanations:


    You'd have to think the 24GB of GDDR6 would bump up the price, too.  It must be expensive if they are hellbent on sticking with 8GB on the 3070.
    While 24 GB of GDDR6 isn't exactly cheap, it's not responsible for a card costing $1500.  Here's a card with 8 GB of GDDR6 for $200, before a $20 rebate:

    https://www.newegg.com/asrock-radeon-rx-5500-xt-rx5500xt-pgd-8go/p/N82E16814930027

    The GeForce RTX 3090 and 3080 don't use GDDR6, though.  They use GDDR6X.  And that probably is extremely expensive right now, considering that it isn't even in mass production yet.  It will get cheaper once you can actually buy it in large volumes.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited September 2020
    Quizzical said:
    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189

    Amazon says it updates hourly, but as of this writing, 11 of the top 12 CPUs are AMD.
    ...."best selling" on Amazon makes one a market leader. Yup.

    No idea why anyone takes you seriously.
    ChildoftheShadowsblueturtle13
  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Quizzical said:

    The GeForce RTX 3090 and 3080 don't use GDDR6, though.  They use GDDR6X.  And that probably is extremely expensive right now, considering that it isn't even in mass production yet.  It will get cheaper once you can actually buy it in large volumes.
    Bear in mind, the 3090 is the new branding for the Titan line of cards, not ti.  It's actually cheaper than a Titan RTX.  I think that since Titans were no longer cut down Quatro cards, they might have decided on a rebranding.  Word on the street is the yields for the 8nm Samsung wafers were way above what Nvidia had on the 20xx series and that actually drove prices down.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 6,712
    As much as I love AMD with their Ryzen CPU's. I give the middle finger to Intel earlier this year and upgraded my system to Ryzen 7 3700X.

    When it comes to their graphic card division. NVidia has them totally cornered and by the balls sadly.
    Back in the early days, NVidia and AMD were neck in neck with eachother, but now NVidia has been dominating the GFX market for the last decade.

    AMD's terrible GFX drivers only make matters worse.
    AmazingAveryAsm0deusTimukas
  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 719
    edited September 2020
    Gdemami said:
    ...."best selling" on Amazon makes one a market leader. Yup.

    No idea why anyone takes you seriously.
    https://imgur.com/a/kr4nNqG

    Granted It's only one seller in one country, but the tide is shifting slowly. It's gonna take a while for AMD to really become a market leader, and any progress from Intel can stop this, but for now, it's apparent Intel mindshare is eroding, even within the casual demographic.

    Top Tech YouTubers are a powerful new tool for influencing purchasing habits, that's the key difference from previous years.
    GdemamiQuizzicalAsm0deus
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited September 2020
    13lake said:
    Granted It's only one seller in one country..
    ...anything that follows after this part is irrelevant.
    ChildoftheShadowsAsm0deus
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    In the gaming desktop market, AMD absolutely is the market leader right now (for CPUs, not GPUs).  That's not the entire x86 market, of course.  But it is the main one that we care about on this site.

    Claiming that Intel is the market leader in CPUs is kind of like claiming that they're the market leader in GPUs (at least for Windows).  By raw number of GPUs sold, including integrated, they are.  But for gaming desktops, they're a very, very distant third, behind Nvidia and AMD.
    Gdemami
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    Quizzical said:

    The GeForce RTX 3090 and 3080 don't use GDDR6, though.  They use GDDR6X.  And that probably is extremely expensive right now, considering that it isn't even in mass production yet.  It will get cheaper once you can actually buy it in large volumes.
    Bear in mind, the 3090 is the new branding for the Titan line of cards, not ti.  It's actually cheaper than a Titan RTX.  I think that since Titans were no longer cut down Quatro cards, they might have decided on a rebranding.  Word on the street is the yields for the 8nm Samsung wafers were way above what Nvidia had on the 20xx series and that actually drove prices down.
    Quadro and GeForce cards are mostly the same silicon (often different bins) with different drivers.
  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:

    The GeForce RTX 3090 and 3080 don't use GDDR6, though.  They use GDDR6X.  And that probably is extremely expensive right now, considering that it isn't even in mass production yet.  It will get cheaper once you can actually buy it in large volumes.
    Bear in mind, the 3090 is the new branding for the Titan line of cards, not ti.  It's actually cheaper than a Titan RTX.  I think that since Titans were no longer cut down Quatro cards, they might have decided on a rebranding.  Word on the street is the yields for the 8nm Samsung wafers were way above what Nvidia had on the 20xx series and that actually drove prices down.
    Quadro and GeForce cards are mostly the same silicon (often different bins) with different drivers.

    Am I mistaken in remembering the first couple gens of Titans being Quadro cards with non-gaming related features removed?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:

    The GeForce RTX 3090 and 3080 don't use GDDR6, though.  They use GDDR6X.  And that probably is extremely expensive right now, considering that it isn't even in mass production yet.  It will get cheaper once you can actually buy it in large volumes.
    Bear in mind, the 3090 is the new branding for the Titan line of cards, not ti.  It's actually cheaper than a Titan RTX.  I think that since Titans were no longer cut down Quatro cards, they might have decided on a rebranding.  Word on the street is the yields for the 8nm Samsung wafers were way above what Nvidia had on the 20xx series and that actually drove prices down.
    Quadro and GeForce cards are mostly the same silicon (often different bins) with different drivers.

    Am I mistaken in remembering the first couple gens of Titans being Quadro cards with non-gaming related features removed?
    Probably.  Quadro cards have drivers optimized for a handful of professional graphics programs--and not particularly optimized for gaming.  Titan cards do not and never have gotten those drivers--and are massively cheaper than the analogous Quadro cards.  Nvidia does sometimes decline to cripple particular hardware features in Titan cards, such as improved double precision performance.  But that's not at all similar to giving them the Quadro drivers.
  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:

    The GeForce RTX 3090 and 3080 don't use GDDR6, though.  They use GDDR6X.  And that probably is extremely expensive right now, considering that it isn't even in mass production yet.  It will get cheaper once you can actually buy it in large volumes.
    Bear in mind, the 3090 is the new branding for the Titan line of cards, not ti.  It's actually cheaper than a Titan RTX.  I think that since Titans were no longer cut down Quatro cards, they might have decided on a rebranding.  Word on the street is the yields for the 8nm Samsung wafers were way above what Nvidia had on the 20xx series and that actually drove prices down.
    Quadro and GeForce cards are mostly the same silicon (often different bins) with different drivers.

    Am I mistaken in remembering the first couple gens of Titans being Quadro cards with non-gaming related features removed?
    Probably.  Quadro cards have drivers optimized for a handful of professional graphics programs--and not particularly optimized for gaming.  Titan cards do not and never have gotten those drivers--and are massively cheaper than the analogous Quadro cards.  Nvidia does sometimes decline to cripple particular hardware features in Titan cards, such as improved double precision performance.  But that's not at all similar to giving them the Quadro drivers.

    Thanks!  It must have been the comparisons in the double precision performance between Titan GTX and 7xx series and the former being closer to quadro performance that had me confused.  Thanks for clearing it up! 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    So they announced they’ll make an announcement? Wow. The brain cells are working over time on that one... say what you’re going so say or shush up AMD.
    In order for tech media to show up for their presentation, they have to say when it is going to be ahead of time.  They can ask the media to keep the date and time secret, but someone inevitably leaks it.  The alternative is to just tell people publicly when the announcement is going to be.

    On the GPU side of things, I think there is some degree of AMD trying to say, "Don't buy Ampere yet, but wait to see what we've got."  That would explain giving out the date over a month and a half ahead of time.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    Quizzical said:
    In the gaming desktop market, AMD absolutely is the market leader right now (for CPUs, not GPUs).  That's not the entire x86 market, of course.  But it is the main one that we care about on this site.

    Claiming that Intel is the market leader in CPUs is kind of like claiming that they're the market leader in GPUs (at least for Windows).  By raw number of GPUs sold, including integrated, they are.  But for gaming desktops, they're a very, very distant third, behind Nvidia and AMD.
    Steam hardware survey says far more than an Amazon link ever will ;)
    Gdemami

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,577
    edited September 2020
    Quizzical said:
    In the gaming desktop market, AMD absolutely is the market leader right now (for CPUs, not GPUs).  That's not the entire x86 market, of course.  But it is the main one that we care about on this site.

    Claiming that Intel is the market leader in CPUs is kind of like claiming that they're the market leader in GPUs (at least for Windows).  By raw number of GPUs sold, including integrated, they are.  But for gaming desktops, they're a very, very distant third, behind Nvidia and AMD.
    Steam hardware survey says far more than an Amazon link ever will ;)
    But Steam hardware survey tells more about historical sales data. For example GTX 1000 -series is undisputed market leader in GPUs despite not being in sale any more.
    Quizzical
     
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,027
    edited September 2020
    Quizzical said:
    In the gaming desktop market, AMD absolutely is the market leader right now (for CPUs, not GPUs).  That's not the entire x86 market, of course.  But it is the main one that we care about on this site.

    Claiming that Intel is the market leader in CPUs is kind of like claiming that they're the market leader in GPUs (at least for Windows).  By raw number of GPUs sold, including integrated, they are.  But for gaming desktops, they're a very, very distant third, behind Nvidia and AMD.
    Steam hardware survey says far more than an Amazon link ever will ;)

    Not really considering it takes into account old trends/hardware like my old arse i5-750 which I am still using.  If AMD continues to lead in the cpu  sales like they have lately it will still take quite a few years before you see that shift in any steam hardware surveys.

    This isn't like switching to w10 from previous windows where it's not really costing much as it means peeps with old PC need to junk them and get all new builds from the last year or two.

    Who knows...maybe you will be known as Red Turtle by then!  ;)
    Quizzical

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,653
    edited September 2020
    I read that the cryptominers going to go nuts over the new Nvidia cards. Well that will pretty much make them unavailable for the rest of us. Not that I ever intended to buy one but still ....
    Chamber of Chains
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    edited September 2020
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    In the gaming desktop market, AMD absolutely is the market leader right now (for CPUs, not GPUs).  That's not the entire x86 market, of course.  But it is the main one that we care about on this site.

    Claiming that Intel is the market leader in CPUs is kind of like claiming that they're the market leader in GPUs (at least for Windows).  By raw number of GPUs sold, including integrated, they are.  But for gaming desktops, they're a very, very distant third, behind Nvidia and AMD.
    Steam hardware survey says far more than an Amazon link ever will ;)

    Not really considering it takes into account old trends/hardware like my old arse i5-750 which I am still using.  If AMD continues to lead in the cpu  sales like they have lately it will still take quite a few years before you see that shift in any steam hardware surveys.

    This isn't like switching to w10 from previous windows where it's not really costing much as it means peeps with old PC need to junk them and get all new builds from the last year or two.

    Who knows...maybe you will be known as Red Turtle by then!  ;)
    when 22 of the top 40 selling CPUs on his own link to Amazon show Intel sold over AMD and Steam users using 70%+ Intel over AMD it is safe to say that AMD is not the market leader no matter where you want the narrative bent ;)   
    mmolou

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    edited September 2020
    These are kinda fun to look at in regards to market share.  https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html AMD has made massive strides this year in the desktop PC market.  Intel lost a lot of good will with the constant delays in 7nm.  This also isn't the first time Intel has been in this position and has pulled something awesome off.

    Hard to quantify "gaming" computer, since a 1660 i3 setup could be a gaming PC for someone.  I still believe that as long as single thread speed rules AAA PC gaming, Intel will maintain it's lead in the enthusiast builds shooting for max frame rates - although the lack of PCIe4 and higher memory timing support might change that real soon.  I would wager AMD has new mid-range builds on lock down at the moment.

    Keep in mind the Steam charts are going to show a lot of laptops playing games.  Intel absolutely has that market.


    blueturtle13
  • foxgirlfoxgirl Member RarePosts: 480
    "AMD announces that they will make some announcements"

    That is the best headline I have ever seen on this site. lol
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    These are kinda fun to look at in regards to market share.  https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html AMD has made massive strides this year in the desktop PC market.  Intel lost a lot of good will with the constant delays in 7nm.  This also isn't the first time Intel has been in this position and has pulled something awesome off.

    Hard to quantify "gaming" computer, since a 1660 i3 setup could be a gaming PC for someone.  I still believe that as long as single thread speed rules AAA PC gaming, Intel will maintain it's lead in the enthusiast builds shooting for max frame rates - although the lack of PCIe4 and higher memory timing support might change that real soon.  I would wager AMD has new mid-range builds on lock down at the moment.

    Keep in mind the Steam charts are going to show a lot of laptops playing games.  Intel absolutely has that market.


    Agreed. AMD has made great strides and is doing well in 'top' end CPU sales right now but as far as overall market share they still lag behind Intel. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












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