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MJ picks his toys up and heads for home.

KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,510
So today on MOP Mark posted the following after a grueling battle with several notable trolls.  What I can't figure out is why he felt it necessary to respond to each one over and over, seems he can't let stuff go.

”All,

I’m going to take a break from posting on MOP for a little while. The last couple of days here have frankly, made it less fun to come here and post. This is not the fault, in any way, of MOP or its team and this place is important to gamers like us so my support for it is unchanged. That said, the constant spamming of personal attacks and lies are simply unacceptable.

I support, 100%, the right of people to be angry at us or anybody for just about anything. OTOH, when criticism turn personal, nasty and libelous, there is no point for me to be here any longer. When people feel it’s okay to say the things that have been said in this thread, and others, about me without consequence, that just encourages more of that behavior and people such as myself to leave these things to Community Managers. 

I just don’t have the time to defend myself from the stuff that certain people have been saying. And as we all know, if I don’t respond (since I do try to respond to everybody) that just feeds into a feedback loop where certain folks can then say “Mark doesn’t dare respond to me. I HAVE THE POWER!” Thus, it’s better to take a break for now and focus on the games we are making and running the company.

Stay safe and uninfected everybody! catch you on the flip side.

Mark”

"See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






MendelUngoodXodic
«13

Comments

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,991
    Kyleran said:
    So today on MOP Mark posted the following after a grueling battle with several notable trolls.  What I can't figure out is why he felt it necessary to respond to each one over and over, seems he can't let stuff go.

    ”All,

    I’m going to take a break from posting on MOP for a little while. The last couple of days here have frankly, made it less fun to come here and post. This is not the fault, in any way, of MOP or its team and this place is important to gamers like us so my support for it is unchanged. That said, the constant spamming of personal attacks and lies are simply unacceptable.

    I support, 100%, the right of people to be angry at us or anybody for just about anything. OTOH, when criticism turn personal, nasty and libelous, there is no point for me to be here any longer. When people feel it’s okay to say the things that have been said in this thread, and others, about me without consequence, that just encourages more of that behavior and people such as myself to leave these things to Community Managers. 

    I just don’t have the time to defend myself from the stuff that certain people have been saying. And as we all know, if I don’t respond (since I do try to respond to everybody) that just feeds into a feedback loop where certain folks can then say “Mark doesn’t dare respond to me. I HAVE THE POWER!” Thus, it’s better to take a break for now and focus on the games we are making and running the company.

    Stay safe and uninfected everybody! catch you on the flip side.

    Mark”


    If he thinks it's libelous, and that people are being libelous without consequence and is directly hurting him, he can always take it to court.  Animosity provided by the internet can be unraveled, and criminal attacks can be addressed in a court of law.

    So, there *could* be consequences, if he chose to pursue the issues.  Costly, time consuming consequences.



    RexKushmanGdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 592
    Mendel said:
    Kyleran said:
    So today on MOP Mark posted the following after a grueling battle with several notable trolls.  What I can't figure out is why he felt it necessary to respond to each one over and over, seems he can't let stuff go.

    ”All,

    I’m going to take a break from posting on MOP for a little while. The last couple of days here have frankly, made it less fun to come here and post. This is not the fault, in any way, of MOP or its team and this place is important to gamers like us so my support for it is unchanged. That said, the constant spamming of personal attacks and lies are simply unacceptable.

    I support, 100%, the right of people to be angry at us or anybody for just about anything. OTOH, when criticism turn personal, nasty and libelous, there is no point for me to be here any longer. When people feel it’s okay to say the things that have been said in this thread, and others, about me without consequence, that just encourages more of that behavior and people such as myself to leave these things to Community Managers. 

    I just don’t have the time to defend myself from the stuff that certain people have been saying. And as we all know, if I don’t respond (since I do try to respond to everybody) that just feeds into a feedback loop where certain folks can then say “Mark doesn’t dare respond to me. I HAVE THE POWER!” Thus, it’s better to take a break for now and focus on the games we are making and running the company.

    Stay safe and uninfected everybody! catch you on the flip side.

    Mark”


    If he thinks it's libelous, and that people are being libelous without consequence and is directly hurting him, he can always take it to court.  Animosity provided by the internet can be unraveled, and criminal attacks can be addressed in a court of law.

    So, there *could* be consequences, if he chose to pursue the issues.  Costly, time consuming consequences.



    Well he's got plenty of time to purse it, it's not like he's actually working on a video game. 
    KyleranScotOG_Zorvanmeddyck

  • tzervotzervo Member RarePosts: 611
    edited September 2
    From the same article's comment section:

    Mark Jacobs:

    Zero chance I’ll end up on Reddit or MMORPG. FB might be a different matter but not the first two.

    Covynant001:

    Hrrm..you had no issue coming to MMORPG.COM with your hand out all those years ago, but when the going gets a bit rough, you walk away.

    That’s OK, keep hiding in your safe spaces, but when / if launch day ever comes, you can bet we who live under the bridge will remember.

    Mark Jacobs:

    I mostly stopped posting on MMORPG when they stopped covering us. It didn’t make much sense to post there once that happened.

    Lol. If the real reason was coverage, that would be also the condition for coming back. Poor deflection of Covynant's argument, however aggressive it was.

  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member UncommonPosts: 194
    edited September 2
    I read MOP and the articles on CU.  When he does comment, there are the same people that always go on and on about refunds with vitriol.  He discusses it for a bit with specifics, and says he'll try to get back to them... but they won't let it go.

    Other people try to stay on topic (eg when will you have 24/7 servers)... which he answers.

    I'm no defender of CU or MJ, but I can see why he gets frustrated with forums.
    GdemamiitchmonTimukas
  • tzervotzervo Member RarePosts: 611
    edited September 2
    I read MOP and the articles on CU.  When he does comment, there are the same people that always go on and on about refunds with vitriol. 
    Vitriol and insults go both ways with MJ though. He also insulted commenters and backers in many MOP articles about CU, many times without them deserving it.
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,553
    tzervo said:
    From the same article's comment section:

    Mark Jacobs:

    Zero chance I’ll end up on Reddit or MMORPG. FB might be a different matter but not the first two.

    Covynant001:

    Hrrm..you had no issue coming to MMORPG.COM with your hand out all those years ago, but when the going gets a bit rough, you walk away.

    That’s OK, keep hiding in your safe spaces, but when / if launch day ever comes, you can bet we who live under the bridge will remember.

    Mark Jacobs:

    I mostly stopped posting on MMORPG when they stopped covering us. It didn’t make much sense to post there once that happened.

    Lol. If the real reason was coverage, that would be also the condition for coming back. Poor deflection of Covynant's argument, however aggressive it was.

    That corvynant guy sounds an awful lot like @Kyleran :

    "... we who live under the bridge..." might as well be his sig :)  
    tzervoKyleranConstantineMerusSlapshot1188AsheramOG_Zorvan
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • tzervotzervo Member RarePosts: 611
    Iselin said:
    That corvynant guy sounds an awful lot like @Kyleran :

    "... we who live under the bridge..." might as well be his sig :)  
    And if you go to that comment in the article you will also see Voldemort grinning at you.

    "Imitation is the best form of flattery"
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,355
    edited September 2
    To be honest, I have no idea why any Dev would slog with general population.

    There are too many Shit Trolls on game forums, and as long as other gamers allow their trolls to run off unchecked, they are the cause of the breakdown in communication.

    So far, I am proudly blocked by a troll here for calling out their lies and trolling. 
    WhiteLanternAxxarXodicTimukas
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    Ungood said:
    To be honest, I have no idea why any Dev would slog with general population.
    ...because of crowdfunding.

    It must be very difficult for MJ to ignore trolls/idiots like that Covynant guy from example above but it is probably the only way - pick your battles and speak to folk that can behave only.
    KyleranSovrathMightyUncleanOG_Zorvan
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,510
    Gdemami said:
    Ungood said:
    To be honest, I have no idea why any Dev would slog with general population.
    ...because of crowdfunding.

    It must be very difficult for MJ to ignore trolls/idiots like that Covynant guy from example above but it is probably the only way - pick your battles and speak to folk that can behave only.
    Yes, one must wear their big boy pants when posting on the internet, or they should just stay home.

     :D 
    UngoodAmatheGdemamiAsheramOG_Zorvan

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 4,625
    pardon my ignorance but what is MOP?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    pardon my ignorance but what is MOP?
    https://massivelyop.com
    FrodoFragins
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,484
    I recommend he call John Smedley to commiserate about internet trolls. No good comes of having banter with them.
    KyleranUngoodSovrathOG_Zorvan

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,317
    Some people are basically fighters. They cannot let anything go. He used to be like this on the VN boards.

    The difference was his game then was not crowd funded and so he could with some impunity really lay in on people and he often did. He needs to step back when he gets angry nowadays because he cannot afford to do what he did then. He is to some extent responsible for things escalating.

    I do understand people like him though. Bet if he was my classmate he would be that guy that can never let anything go and would me spoiling for a fight for just any slight that happen to be flung his way. He has never learnt the wisdom of letting things pass without a reaction. At some point it totally gets out of hand and then he steps back but by then almost everyone has already seen the underbelly of the beast.
    IselinCuddleheartBeansnBreadOG_Zorvan
    Chamber of Chains
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,987
    edited September 3
    Well i don't hang out on any Cu media outlets,i don't even know wtf MOP is.I am also busy eating yummy food so i'll not let some MOP term sway my enjoyment of food lol.

    There are always several sides to a story,i often look deeper and find more than the naked eye WANTS to see.People are  subjective in what they want to see or listen to.

    So i will try and look at this in a similar fashion to see how i see the devs of my past favorite game Atlas.I feel i have been LIED to "a term Mark claims was used against him'as well the dev team continue to try and change the game into something i never wanted.

    Without getting into the giant picture and what is going on i am only referring to this because i know how it feels to have a developer shit all over it's supporters.
    Mark CLAIMS it is ok for people to be angry but to what point,obviously personal attacks are not a good thing but what if,WHAT IF Mark has been lying and conning ,exploiting people out of their money with FALSE promises?
    Point being ,are these people really trolls "an oft over used term now a days"or is/has Mark created a LOT of the problems?

    Personally i want new laws to take affect on these so called non profit and donation /crowd funded type ventures.I don't agree with ANY of it or how they operate.


    bcbully

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,987
    edited September 3
    I just want to throw something out there because there is a point to it.

    I have been watching a dude named Sid Alpha for a long time.He is a YouTuber that basically does a lot of uncovering "dirty devs".He digs very deep with factual evidence and has himself had to fight off legal issues threatened against him via developers.

    What he has uncovered over the years are a LOT of scummy to down right illegal acting dev studios.he has even helped facilitate legal action against developers as well as having had a YouTube ban turned over because of lies and slander done by developers.

    The business of gaming now a days is very dirty business,no different than Twitch streamers covering themselves in a bubble room to control the environment of attaining money from viewers.

    Even when FACTUAL evidence is shown these devs still try and lie and cover their tracks as well THREATEN the community or ANYONE that speaks against them with defamation claims.
    This is a very relevant topic because about 5 or so years ago Canada as i am sure other nations,were looking into new laws that protect people from big business bullying by way of legal action.In other words,big business was threatening the community voice with legal action if they say anything bad.

    This is sort oif what i am feeling here  with Mark as he was VERY careful to throw  in the term LIABLE.That term didn't just magically get there,he made sure to use it.So i asked my self WHY and then i thought of all the scummy devs and how Canada was looking into law to keep this sort of bullying from happening.I mean how can any normal community person defend themselves against big businesses?
    So last i heard on the matter was the government was looking into giving judges the power to levy fines as well as other penalties and future restrictions against big business that was merely trying to bully people's opinions.

    BruceYeebcbully

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,553
    cheyane said:
    Some people are basically fighters. They cannot let anything go. He used to be like this on the VN boards.

    The difference was his game then was not crowd funded and so he could with some impunity really lay in on people and he often did. He needs to step back when he gets angry nowadays because he cannot afford to do what he did then. He is to some extent responsible for things escalating.

    I do understand people like him though. Bet if he was my classmate he would be that guy that can never let anything go and would me spoiling for a fight for just any slight that happen to be flung his way. He has never learnt the wisdom of letting things pass without a reaction. At some point it totally gets out of hand and then he steps back but by then almost everyone has already seen the underbelly of the beast.
    It's funny but I remember Sanya, his DAoC community manager as being just as belligerent as him. Those VN boards were never dull :)
    RexKushmanKyleran
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    cheyane said:
    Some people are basically fighters. They cannot let anything go.
    I don't see him fighting at all, he is polite, reasonable and open.

    What he does wrong imo, is trying to be reasonable with irrational people - the gap in mentality is just too large for him to comprehend.

    Something like when you see people making more money than you and still living from paycheck to paycheck. For someone with elementary fiscal responsibility such behavior is simply uncomprehensible.
    MightyUnclean
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 182
    edited September 3
    What a diva, come on(he did this exact same thing to Warhammer Online before storming off)! What's his MMO pedigree again?
  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,152
    If I let it be known every time reading these forums gave me a headache...
    Ehh, no one would care, and they'd call me a whiney bitch.
    RexKushman
  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 121
    Who the hell are these people around these has-beens that are telling them that they are such valuable assets in the industry?  Is the standard for developers so low that you can ride years of nothing but botched games because you helped make a b-level MMO and a few MUDS 20+ years ago?
    GdemamiGorwebcbullyArglebargle
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,561
    For some reason he does not want to come on here and join us, I wonder why? :)

    To be fair I think we are miles better than Twitter and marginally better than Reddit. But I think the best thing for him is to take a step back and let someone else do the PR.  
    tzervo

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    edited September 3
    Scot said:
    But I think the best thing for him is to take a step back and let someone else do the PR.  
    ...that is just naive/silly perception.

    No one but a dev can communicate with public and share details about the game and development.

    As much as a dev person may lack communication/people skills, PR person will be short on any technical knowledge, making him unable to do the task at all.

    From the two, only dev is capable to do the job. The ideal situation is to have a dev with people/communication skills, but such people are even rarer than good developers.

    Even large companies that can afford more staff do not have anyone in such positions and it is always the devs doing the talking.


    MightyUncleanbcbully
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,697
    A bit off topic but why has mmorpg.com stopped covering CU? 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 1,995
    Scot said:
    For some reason he does not want to come on here and join us, I wonder why? :)

    To be fair I think we are miles better than Twitter and marginally better than Reddit. But I think the best thing for him is to take a step back and let someone else do the PR.  

    I dunno, I kind of like knowing the raw truth rather than being sweet talked by a paid shill.

    Just noticing MJ's behavior and not being able to decipher what is actually truth or lies is really making me wonder if he's some kind of genius and/or high functioning mad man lol. Think about everything we don't know about both CU & Ragnarok and it's not much. We have no idea when they are going to come out, how close to being complete the projects are etc etc. I get a huge CU backers email for the past 6 years for and it's like a never ending wall of developer jargon text salad. I'd be able to understand hieroglyphics more than what I get in those updates.

    Here's what we know...

    He made his engine...

    CU is being worked on...

    Ragnarok is maybe being worked on...

    I mean, does anyone even know if there actually is a Seattle office?

    Where/Who are the devs and why do we never see them? I think in all those streams there were only 3 people who ever appeared. The bearded fellow, another guy then that morning update stream guy with a room of computers behind him but never anyone on them.

    Remember that CU was supposed to go into beta in 2015... I'm not trolling that's MJ's own words...

    Gdemamimeddyck
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