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”New World could well become the new gold standard for MMO combat"

KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,941
edited September 2020 in New World
Not my words, but in light of several threads slagging on New World's combat I thought I'd share the opinion of a reviewer over on MassivelyOP who really seems to enjoy it.

A few excerpts, but I invite you to read the article to see his full thoughts which does include some of the shortcomings others have raised here. Guess he's just made of sterner stuff.

”what really makes this game shine is the combat. When one of the developers claimed New World is the first MMO with “100% real time action combat,” a lot of people scoffed, and that maybe wasn’t the right way to put it, but this is genuinely an evolution over what’s come before. New World‘s combat is as far above other “action combat” games as they are above tab target titles.”

”This does of course mean that you’re going to need to get better at aiming your attacks if you don’t want to miss, but it also has the potential to reward good play in a myriad of ways. For ranged weapons, you have the potential for head shots for extra damage, like in a shooter. For melee weapons, positioning becomes more important as you try to include as many enemies as possible in the arc of your swings. It is spectacularly satisfying to line up a crowd of enemies just so and lay them all out with a devastating shield slam.”

https://massivelyop.com/2020/08/31/first-impressions-new-world-has-the-foundation-of-what-could-be-a-great-game/



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muthaxxpsyncNepheth
«13

Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,040
    edited September 2020
    I am not sure even those posting on here who are really in favour of what they have seen so up till now would go that far. But hey, Death Stranding got a 10 on here the other day so maybe this is the year of going out on a limb. :)
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,723
    My hope is if they have a good base of a game. Is Amazon chucks a bunch of money at the game, in the way of more developers. May 2021 is not far away. They need to get content in the game, get PvP fixed and add something more then 50v50 or they need to find a way that 50v50 happens in a meaningful way for the whole community. Not just a select few. 

    If combat is a taste thing and people are enjoying it. They need to double down and make it the best of what they envisioned. When I play an MMO. I like to be overwhelmed with options of things to do in game. Im not getting that feeling from NW. Im not talking making the game a theme park. But I have been overwhelmed in content in a Sandbox MMO before. I really would like to see Amazon Studios really make a name for themselves. The industry needs more game studios. 
    Gdemami
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,342
    This ad paid for by Amazon........
    achesomaNepheth
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,740
    I actually like New World's combat as far as how it's designed. What needs to happen is that it needs to be a bit sharper, more responsive (if that's possible).


    Mikeha
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  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,195
    remsleep said:


    So for me in current form combat is actually a negative because you don't have precise control of your character and are often locked in long animations without being able to defend.

    If they can fix that- combat would be vastly improved

    You have to have consequences for actions otherwise pvp would be pointless. If you could always be able to defend even mid attack then... what? Do you want them to require a full Mo-Cap suit so you can show off how you would prefer to do it?
    muthaxGdemami
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Rhoklaw said:
    Let me get this straight, a game that was advertised as PvP focused, decides after ALPHA reviews from players to do a 180 flip and go more PvE focus. Makes huge sweeping changes, getting flack from the "supposed majority" of ALPHA testers for ruining the PvP game. Gets delayed several times, most recently for 9 months. Decides to show off what they have so far in some sort of week long "this isn't a beta" preview and you're telling me it's the new "gold standard"?

    God help us.
    No - as J-L-P stated, the PvP system was flawed. They also saw the Alpha numbers go down and only a few players were playing, gankers and the like. It was decided that they did not want to be a niche AAA game (how many full PvP full loot games are out there? - not many. The ones that were are dead or dying by losing people).

    Also, the game is not without complaints. The quests can be boring and long travel times (but I do harvesting/hunting while going there). 

    The developer have quite a few veteran game developer/coders from actually published games (GW2, etc). I think they understand the game is on a short time clock to get out and they are at least putting their best foot forward.


  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 334
    I've read it before, this could actually almost be my own review.

    For the combat, they really only need two things:

    1) Be able to cancel animations in order to dodge, block/parry or swap weapons. Of course it also cancels the effect and damage.

    2) More weapons, and that is already coming.

    Oh, and nerf hatchets once 1) is done.

    That's not much to do, really.
    I'm on the fence about your first point.

    On the one hand, I feel like if you decide to attack and do so you should be committed to it. However, I acknowledge this is counter-productive to the idea of "Action" combat.

    On the other, canceling the attack in favor of maneuvering, defending or re-positioning is still a good idea for making combat fun and exciting though.
  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    I hope this isn't true.  I am not a fan of action combat mmos and it's already a little offputting that almost every mmo wants to shoehorn in action combat these days.

    That said, I hope this game does well so that it encourages publishers to take chances on dropping dough on the genre again.  Kinda crazy that the dude from Wildstar was right when he suggested that if Wildstar failed, the genre would probably die off as well... 
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Rhoklaw said:
    Linif said:
    I've read it before, this could actually almost be my own review.

    For the combat, they really only need two things:

    1) Be able to cancel animations in order to dodge, block/parry or swap weapons. Of course it also cancels the effect and damage.

    2) More weapons, and that is already coming.

    Oh, and nerf hatchets once 1) is done.

    That's not much to do, really.
    I'm on the fence about your first point.

    On the one hand, I feel like if you decide to attack and do so you should be committed to it. However, I acknowledge this is counter-productive to the idea of "Action" combat.

    On the other, canceling the attack in favor of maneuvering, defending or re-positioning is still a good idea for making combat fun and exciting though.
    As long as damage produced from said attacks being canceled happens at the end of the animation, not before. Than it has no impact on gameplay mechanics and just makes combat smoother.
    Still, I firmly believe that if they change it, you should only be able to cancel an attack in the very beginning of the swing. 

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    yeah the combat brings nothing new, even more when almost everyone use the same weapon
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,287
    I've hated action combat MMOS for the most part and never lasted long in them. For this game at the moment there are some improvements needed, but honestly it already seems better than BDO in my opinion. I see what they were attempting to do with the weighty combat, it just needs some tweaking to feel a bit less sluggish. Also just give us an always on or always off sprint toggle. Walking is slow so I find myself running always, and holding down shift in this game is painful after a while.

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,561
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    Chamber of Chains
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 334
    Rhoklaw said:
    Linif said:
    I've read it before, this could actually almost be my own review.

    For the combat, they really only need two things:

    1) Be able to cancel animations in order to dodge, block/parry or swap weapons. Of course it also cancels the effect and damage.

    2) More weapons, and that is already coming.

    Oh, and nerf hatchets once 1) is done.

    That's not much to do, really.
    I'm on the fence about your first point.

    On the one hand, I feel like if you decide to attack and do so you should be committed to it. However, I acknowledge this is counter-productive to the idea of "Action" combat.

    On the other, canceling the attack in favor of maneuvering, defending or re-positioning is still a good idea for making combat fun and exciting though.
    As long as damage produced from said attacks being canceled happens at the end of the animation, not before. Than it has no impact on gameplay mechanics and just makes combat smoother.
    I was really struggling to understand your post here, but I think I got it. You're clarifying that the damage should only ever be applied at the end of an animation, not before, so you avoid things like ESO's animation cancelling. Am I understanding that right?
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    cheyane said:
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    I wouldn't say that without giving it a try! The combat is not super fast paced and there aren't a lot of keys you need to pay attention throughout the fights.
    TillerKyleran

  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 334
    remsleep said:
    Also combat skill queuing should only happen near the end of the skill animation not before.

    Right now the skill queue window is far too big.

    You can queue a 2nd skill before the animation of the 1st skill even starts - this is bad 

    I wonder if Amazon really does think that's a sound mechanic, or it's just one of those things they'll get around to tuning.

    I agree with you though. An exceptionally large skill-queue-window isn't good. It certainly doesn't fit in "Action" combat. Sure a small window goes a long way to helping with latency but a long window just makes things unreactable. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,740
    I hope this isn't true.  I am not a fan of action combat mmos and it's already a little offputting that almost every mmo wants to shoehorn in action combat these days.

    That said, I hope this game does well so that it encourages publishers to take chances on dropping dough on the genre again.  Kinda crazy that the dude from Wildstar was right when he suggested that if Wildstar failed, the genre would probably die off as well... 
    I don't see it as shoehorning so much as finding your market. 

    I only like action combat mmorpg's (though I'd play tab targetting if I must) so I'm glad that there are more games that are trying to figure it out.

    As far as Wildstar, there are a whole host of reasons why it failed starting off with "it was dull" right form the start (for my taste.)

    The genre has issues because it takes a buttload of money to make these things and players are fickle.
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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,861
    I think the foundation of NW is very promising and solid. I’ve written several posts in the past that the new generation of MMORPGs would come from evolved survival games and New World is the first step. It isn’t perfect and needs tuning but I am 100% sure this is the future and its already more exciting then the last decade of MMORPGs.

    Can they deliver? Who knows. Many complaints are definitely related to those survival roots but since I am not opposed to that genre and played a few of these games New World ticks a lot of boxes.

    On a side note. Amazon might have all the money, talent and time in the world, that does not mean they are investing in New World without any limit. Many people seem to think they are literally dumping everything they have into the game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    [Deleted User]YashaXbotrytis
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    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,561
    Bloodaxes said:
    cheyane said:
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    I wouldn't say that without giving it a try! The combat is not super fast paced and there aren't a lot of keys you need to pay attention throughout the fights.
    Can't aim for shit. Any game that requires precision and action combat is definitely beyond this old lady.
    Chamber of Chains
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    cheyane said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    cheyane said:
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    I wouldn't say that without giving it a try! The combat is not super fast paced and there aren't a lot of keys you need to pay attention throughout the fights.
    Can't aim for shit. Any game that requires precision and action combat is definitely beyond this old lady.
    Trust me. If you manage in PSO2 you will definitely find this easier.
    YashaX

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,740
    cheyane said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    cheyane said:
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    I wouldn't say that without giving it a try! The combat is not super fast paced and there aren't a lot of keys you need to pay attention throughout the fights.
    Can't aim for shit. Any game that requires precision and action combat is definitely beyond this old lady.
    you better be 60 or over or you're not old!  B)
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,805
    edited September 2020
    Imma bet the short on this one...
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,040
    Sovrath said:
    cheyane said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    cheyane said:
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    I wouldn't say that without giving it a try! The combat is not super fast paced and there aren't a lot of keys you need to pay attention throughout the fights.
    Can't aim for shit. Any game that requires precision and action combat is definitely beyond this old lady.
    you better be 60 or over or you're not old!  B)
    60, you young whippersnappers, why you are not even in three figures!
    Sovrath[Deleted User]
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,561
    Sovrath said:
    cheyane said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    cheyane said:
    Alright I cannot play then. good to know thanks. These types of games are too hard for me.
    I wouldn't say that without giving it a try! The combat is not super fast paced and there aren't a lot of keys you need to pay attention throughout the fights.
    Can't aim for shit. Any game that requires precision and action combat is definitely beyond this old lady.
    you better be 60 or over or you're not old!  B)
    Yes well over
    SovrathTiller[Deleted User]
    Chamber of Chains
  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    lahnmir said:

    On a side note. Amazon might have all the money, talent and time in the world, that does not mean they are investing in New World without any limit. Many people seem to think they are literally dumping everything they have into the game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Totally agree with this statement.  
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited September 2020
    Typically website reviewers are just awful,idk that person but it is possible he has good insight from ALL angles to make a good review.
    Here is the very noticeable problem,he starts off with talking about "action" combat.That has been a hot topic for MANY years and has two distinct sides of the fence.

    I personally usually don't like action combat because what it typically means in the gaming industry is something i detest >>somersault dodging.So you swing or aim at a target or you somersault...grrr
    So it might likely work in THIS particular game because you have so few options for combat.This is basically very typical of a survival game type setup,how many survival games have survived.....NONE,maybe an argument for ARK?

    EVERY single time a new survival game releases players are happy,excited then 2 months later,they are mostly unhappy.This sentiment even extends to other genres as well,it really say a lot about a gamer's mentality and their inability to choose good games.

    So in this particular game,i am not signing off as the game being a "gold standard"based on the simple fact it has action combat because action combat is NOT always the best design.Like i said if your just going for a simple approach a few hotbar choices then yeah it works for this game but not  for the "industry".




    Gdemami

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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