Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good
Just saying...
And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA
And you know how that turned out
Praised?
You haven't been on new world reddit forums...
Amazon has paid many streamers so they wont be negative
Watch streamers that aren't sponsored... very different story
I could see myself enjoying the combat, however like others have mentioned here and elsewhere... the global cooldowns shared on weapon swaps seem like a bummer. 3 active skills, if I have that right, per weapon seems way too few for long term game play. Maybe not.
I am concerned about some op / cheap tactics I read about and viewed (e.g. hachet stun lock). But others have found ways around it in pvp... still cheap in pve. Devs can probably fix this by may, not too worried.
I could see myself enjoying the combat, however like others have mentioned here and elsewhere... the global cooldowns shared on weapon swaps seem like a bummer. 3 active skills, if I have that right, per weapon seems way too few for long term game play. Maybe not.
I am concerned about some op / cheap tactics I read about and viewed (e.g. hachet stun lock). But others have found ways around it in pvp... still cheap in pve. Devs can probably fix this by may, not too worried.
I think the cooldown is to avoid ability spam by people using the same type of weapon in the 3 slots but yeah it is annoying
the fact that weapon swap sometimes just doesn't work is more annoying but I am sure they can fix that
hatchet spam is ...cheesy, but everyone knows the hatchet nerf is on its way, it's been reported several times
Well i havent played the game to see how combat feels i know from watching vids that animation wise at least it will never touch games like bdo which is king in that department. Nw looks like some indie devs made it in that regard.
But i can live without good animation my biggest problem is that everyone agreed that there is very little content in the game.When i want to start an mmo i want to potential sink a lot of good played hours in it if i was to beat it in a week i would rather play a single player game
I ignore streamers, if someone posts a video that just shows the game playing, no chat that's all you need. They are becoming just another way to advertise the game.
The combat seems more nuanced than I thought, so time out on that. In fact time out until it launches, they do have time to make changes which will no doubt smooth some issues.
If you underleveled the PvE stuff is hard. The Puma kicks my ass. Especially with more than one jump in the fight. Casters have it even harder to play.
mouse: 1. Left click - light attack 2. Left click hold - heavy attack 3. right click - block/aim (depending on weapon)
Keyboard: 4. space bar - dodge 5. Q - weapon skill 1 6. R - weapon skill 2 7. F - weapon skill 3
Note that weapon skills share cooldown with all weapons - so weapon swapping is not nearly as viable due to this problem
One handed weapons - you can pretty much to through half of the game just by using left click and nothing else - especially with a constant string of staggers (hatchet)
So PvE is basically left click
still find it really strange how people are praising combat in this game - when it's just mostly left click with occasional weapon skill thrown in there.
Dodge is space bar while pressing a directional key?
Yes. Still the classical fault of “more is better” is being made. New World combat combines the combat of survival games with a small dose of Dark Souls/Monster Hunter. The amount of abilities really doesn’t matter (Sekiro, one of the best and most tactical fighting games ever has one attack button for instance), the challenge of the fights and the animation lock rarely seen in MMORPGs can be discussed but are certainly not bad, just different then that which came before. I also have to remind people that most fights in MMORPGs are ridiculously easy, New World is actually a bit more difficult then most. Unless people still think og EQ is still the talk of the town and the industry standard.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Nah the Animation Locks are really bad here. Example; you can't even get any benefits from the Warhammer stun skill since the duration of the stun and the Animation lock is about the exact same. So enemy is stunned for the same duration that I am when I stun them. So what do I gain from that? Also while in the Animation lock you can't swap weapons. And skills queue, so if you shooting ranged magic attacks on a far off enemy that is running to you, when they get close and you want to swap to a melee weapon, the UI will show you trying to swap, but won't allow you to swap. So if you hit attack again, thinking you changed to your melee weapon, you back locked into the ranged caster weapon...
Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good
Just saying...
And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA
And you know how that turned out
The only thing that could be improved a bit is the weapon swapping. But otherwise, combat is just fine, only the button mashers could eventually complain.
Remember, never take advice or opinions from someone who has demonstrated time and time again to have crappy tastes
It's like if someone was arguing that the Mad Max remake was crap, but he like Rise of the Skywalkers....
Opinions vary
Tastes are not crappy. They are just different.
People who love New World - totally fine People who don't- totally fine
Your attempts to belittle those who have opinions and tastes that are different than yours is pretty sad
Everyone should form their own opinion based on first hand experience- what streamers or reviewers or forum posters say is completely irrelevant
my thing is, people belittle the critics, yet had MMOs like Darkfall, Warhammer, Wildstar, etc had listened to its prerelease critics, the games would probably still been around and not just as third party versions on private servers.
mouse: 1. Left click - light attack 2. Left click hold - heavy attack 3. right click - block/aim (depending on weapon)
Keyboard: 4. space bar - dodge 5. Q - weapon skill 1 6. R - weapon skill 2 7. F - weapon skill 3
Note that weapon skills share cooldown with all weapons - so weapon swapping is not nearly as viable due to this problem
One handed weapons - you can pretty much to through half of the game just by using left click and nothing else - especially with a constant string of staggers (hatchet)
So PvE is basically left click
still find it really strange how people are praising combat in this game - when it's just mostly left click with occasional weapon skill thrown in there.
Dodge is space bar while pressing a directional key?
Yes. Still the classical fault of “more is better” is being made. New World combat combines the combat of survival games with a small dose of Dark Souls/Monster Hunter. The amount of abilities really doesn’t matter (Sekiro, one of the best and most tactical fighting games ever has one attack button for instance), the challenge of the fights and the animation lock rarely seen in MMORPGs can be discussed but are certainly not bad, just different then that which came before. I also have to remind people that most fights in MMORPGs are ridiculously easy, New World is actually a bit more difficult then most. Unless people still think og EQ is still the talk of the town and the industry standard.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Nah the Animation Locks are really bad here. Example; you can't even get any benefits from the Warhammer stun skill since the duration of the stun and the Animation lock is about the exact same. So enemy is stunned for the same duration that I am when I stun them. So what do I gain from that?
Yeah, the staggers from light attacks seem just as good as the stuns. I think the active abilities are just too weak considering the long cds and the fact you really only have three of them.
mouse: 1. Left click - light attack 2. Left click hold - heavy attack 3. right click - block/aim (depending on weapon)
Keyboard: 4. space bar - dodge 5. Q - weapon skill 1 6. R - weapon skill 2 7. F - weapon skill 3
Note that weapon skills share cooldown with all weapons - so weapon swapping is not nearly as viable due to this problem
One handed weapons - you can pretty much to through half of the game just by using left click and nothing else - especially with a constant string of staggers (hatchet)
So PvE is basically left click
still find it really strange how people are praising combat in this game - when it's just mostly left click with occasional weapon skill thrown in there.
Dodge is space bar while pressing a directional key?
Yes. Still the classical fault of “more is better” is being made. New World combat combines the combat of survival games with a small dose of Dark Souls/Monster Hunter. The amount of abilities really doesn’t matter (Sekiro, one of the best and most tactical fighting games ever has one attack button for instance), the challenge of the fights and the animation lock rarely seen in MMORPGs can be discussed but are certainly not bad, just different then that which came before. I also have to remind people that most fights in MMORPGs are ridiculously easy, New World is actually a bit more difficult then most. Unless people still think og EQ is still the talk of the town and the industry standard.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Nah the Animation Locks are really bad here. Example; you can't even get any benefits from the Warhammer stun skill since the duration of the stun and the Animation lock is about the exact same. So enemy is stunned for the same duration that I am when I stun them. So what do I gain from that?
Yeah, the staggers from light attacks seem just as good as the stuns. I think the active abilities are just too weak considering the long cds and the fact you really only have three of them.
All of it definitely needs tuning and tweaking, I play hammer and know what you mean. The system isn’t bad though, at all, it just needs to get polished. I think the actual foundation for the combat is great truth be told.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
MMOExposed said: So enemy is stunned for the same duration that I am when I stun them.
...you aren't stunned, you are still performing a move.
Yeah I do not see how stuns in New World are much different from other games due to animation locking (probably only the restriction to move freely, compared for example to a game with GCD). I would expect typical use cases of stuns in other MMOs (buying time for a longer windup move, disrupting an opponent's ability), to apply here as well.
So in other games you can generally stun someone then immediately follow up with a couple of other abilities before your opponent is released from the cc. So that "stun" buys you say two free attacks (which often have extra damage/effects because the opponent is disabled).
In NW, your normal light attack also applies a stagger on many opponents meaning you can follow up with another light attack or ability while they are staggered. There are also a couple of activated abilities that apply a "stun" effect, but once you account for animation times you generally only have time for one "free" cast while the enemy is cc'd.
The result is that the cc is no more effective than the light attack, the cc ability hits for less damage (at least on the shield) than a normal LA, and the ability then goes on a long CD. The shield stun can be upgraded to 4 seconds, which might make it marginally better than a LA.
MMOExposed said: So enemy is stunned for the same duration that I am when I stun them.
...you aren't stunned, you are still performing a move.
Yeah I do not see how stuns in New World are much different from other games due to animation locking (probably only the restriction to move freely, compared for example to a game with GCD). I would expect typical use cases of stuns in other MMOs (buying time for a longer windup move, disrupting an opponent's ability), to apply here as well.
So in other games you can generally stun someone then immediately follow up with a couple of other abilities before your opponent is released from the cc. So that "stun" buys you say two free attacks (which often have extra damage/effects because the opponent is disabled).
In NW, your normal light attack also applies a stagger on many opponents meaning you can follow up with another light attack or ability while they are staggered. There are also a couple of activated abilities that apply a "stun" effect, but once you account for animation times you generally only have time for one "free" cast while the enemy is cc'd.
The result is that the cc is no more effective than the light attack, the cc ability hits for less damage (at least on the shield) than a normal LA, and the ability then goes on a long CD. The shield stun can be upgraded to 4 seconds, which might make it marginally better than a LA.
I think the main point is that a shield bash or a shield rush (or whatever the charge attack is named) will affect more than a mob/player
I can usually do 2 light attacks or a heavy one after a stun with sword and board btw I can also easily cancel an attack and block or parry instead, unlike I have been reading in these threads
I can also easily cancel an attack and block or parry instead, unlike I have been reading in these threads
You can cancel LMB attacks most of the time but not always and you can't cancel QRF attacks.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
MMOExposed said: So enemy is stunned for the same duration that I am when I stun them.
...you aren't stunned, you are still performing a move.
Yeah I do not see how stuns in New World are much different from other games due to animation locking (probably only the restriction to move freely, compared for example to a game with GCD). I would expect typical use cases of stuns in other MMOs (buying time for a longer windup move, disrupting an opponent's ability), to apply here as well.
So in other games you can generally stun someone then immediately follow up with a couple of other abilities before your opponent is released from the cc. So that "stun" buys you say two free attacks (which often have extra damage/effects because the opponent is disabled).
In NW, your normal light attack also applies a stagger on many opponents meaning you can follow up with another light attack or ability while they are staggered. There are also a couple of activated abilities that apply a "stun" effect, but once you account for animation times you generally only have time for one "free" cast while the enemy is cc'd.
The result is that the cc is no more effective than the light attack, the cc ability hits for less damage (at least on the shield) than a normal LA, and the ability then goes on a long CD. The shield stun can be upgraded to 4 seconds, which might make it marginally better than a LA.
I think the main point is that a shield bash or a shield rush (or whatever the charge attack is named) will affect more than a mob/player
I can usually do 2 light attacks or a heavy one after a stun with sword and board btw I can also easily cancel an attack and block or parry instead, unlike I have been reading in these threads
I was just trying to explain to @tzervo ;the difference between how stuns work in NW compared to other mmos.
In most other mmos/games, a hard cc that takes control away from an enemy is a powerful ability that can't be spammed and the strategic use of which is often the key to winning the engagement.
In NW, your LA include a stagger that is basically as effective as an activated stun (and does more damage!). This makes the stun abilities lacklustre at best, although useless seems like a more accurate description.
This was actually the first thing I noticed when I played NW in the pre-pre preview. When you get an ability with a 24 second cd you expect it to be good, especially when you can only have 3 activated abilities in total. It was quite jarring when I used shield slam for the first time and realized it was worse than a LA!
The reason why the hatchet is so strong is that it buffs the crap out of your LA, adds passive healing, and then has two very strong abilities further down the tree, neither of which are attacks (purge and 15 secs of invulnerability).
So in other games you can generally stun someone then immediately follow up with a couple of other abilities before your opponent is released from the cc. So that "stun" buys you say two free attacks (which often have extra damage/effects because the opponent is disabled).
In NW, your normal light attack also applies a stagger on many opponents meaning you can follow up with another light attack or ability while they are staggered. There are also a couple of activated abilities that apply a "stun" effect, but once you account for animation times you generally only have time for one "free" cast while the enemy is cc'd.
The result is that the cc is no more effective than the light attack, the cc ability hits for less damage (at least on the shield) than a normal LA, and the ability then goes on a long CD. The shield stun can be upgraded to 4 seconds, which might make it marginally better than a LA.
Then the issue is not the animation lock like MMOExposed argued. It is:
1) The fact that there is a more efficient alternative (light attack stagger). This is indeed particular to New World's system.
2) The time values: time to "cast" stun & duration of stun compared to time to "cast" other attacks. This can be rebalanced.
(2) is what I was thinking in my previous post. But (2) applies in any type of combat system. It has nothing to do with animation locking, other than restricting free movement during cast.
Ok right I see what you mean, yeah the animation locks actually bring a lot of character to the combat system anyway. I know a lot of people hate them but its kind of enjoyable in its own way imo.
Even though the combat mainly revolves around LA, you can get hurt pretty badly if you just spam it against mobs that are a similar level. Would be nice if those active abilities brought a bit more oomph to the table though.
Comments
I am concerned about some op / cheap tactics I read about and viewed (e.g. hachet stun lock). But others have found ways around it in pvp... still cheap in pve. Devs can probably fix this by may, not too worried.
the fact that weapon swap sometimes just doesn't work is more annoying but I am sure they can fix that
hatchet spam is ...cheesy, but everyone knows the hatchet nerf is on its way, it's been reported several times
But i can live without good animation my biggest problem is that everyone agreed that there is very little content in the game.When i want to start an mmo i want to potential sink a lot of good played hours in it if i was to beat it in a week i would rather play a single player game
The combat seems more nuanced than I thought, so time out on that. In fact time out until it launches, they do have time to make changes which will no doubt smooth some issues.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Also while in the Animation lock you can't swap weapons. And skills queue, so if you shooting ranged magic attacks on a far off enemy that is running to you, when they get close and you want to swap to a melee weapon, the UI will show you trying to swap, but won't allow you to swap. So if you hit attack again, thinking you changed to your melee weapon, you back locked into the ranged caster weapon...
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I am wondering whether same people complaining about NW's combat also complain about games getting dumbed down since /input game or event here/....
In NW, your normal light attack also applies a stagger on many opponents meaning you can follow up with another light attack or ability while they are staggered. There are also a couple of activated abilities that apply a "stun" effect, but once you account for animation times you generally only have time for one "free" cast while the enemy is cc'd.
The result is that the cc is no more effective than the light attack, the cc ability hits for less damage (at least on the shield) than a normal LA, and the ability then goes on a long CD. The shield stun can be upgraded to 4 seconds, which might make it marginally better than a LA.
I can usually do 2 light attacks or a heavy one after a stun with sword and board btw
I can also easily cancel an attack and block or parry instead, unlike I have been reading in these threads
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't play hammer because I mostly solo
Had no issue with Life Stave and I only get stuck with musket if he is reloading
In most other mmos/games, a hard cc that takes control away from an enemy is a powerful ability that can't be spammed and the strategic use of which is often the key to winning the engagement.
In NW, your LA include a stagger that is basically as effective as an activated stun (and does more damage!). This makes the stun abilities lacklustre at best, although useless seems like a more accurate description.
This was actually the first thing I noticed when I played NW in the pre-pre preview. When you get an ability with a 24 second cd you expect it to be good, especially when you can only have 3 activated abilities in total. It was quite jarring when I used shield slam for the first time and realized it was worse than a LA!
The reason why the hatchet is so strong is that it buffs the crap out of your LA, adds passive healing, and then has two very strong abilities further down the tree, neither of which are attacks (purge and 15 secs of invulnerability).
Even though the combat mainly revolves around LA, you can get hurt pretty badly if you just spam it against mobs that are a similar level. Would be nice if those active abilities brought a bit more oomph to the table though.