New World combat: Difficult or easy? Fast or slow?

MightyUnclean

I read some posts about New World combat on Reddit, and they were all over the place.  Some said it's too easy, too slow, and that blocking and dodging barely even matter.  Some say the opposite is true, especially at higher levels, where things like positioning really matter.

For those of you who have made it beyond the beginning levels, what do you think?

MightyUnclean

remsleep said:

The entirety of combat is 7 buttons:

mouse:
1. Left click - light attack
2. Left click hold - heavy attack
3. right click  - block/aim (depending on weapon)

Keyboard:
4. space bar - dodge
5. Q - weapon skill 1
6. R - weapon skill 2
7. F - weapon skill 3 


Note that weapon skills share cooldown with all weapons - so weapon swapping is not nearly as viable due to this problem

One handed weapons -  you can pretty much to through half of the game just by using left click and nothing else - especially with a constant string of staggers (hatchet)

So PvE is basically left click

still find it really strange how people are praising combat in this game - when it's just mostly left click with occasional weapon skill thrown in there.

Dodge is space bar while pressing a directional key?

lahnmir

MightyUnclean said:

remsleep said:

The entirety of combat is 7 buttons:

mouse:
1. Left click - light attack
2. Left click hold - heavy attack
3. right click  - block/aim (depending on weapon)

Keyboard:
4. space bar - dodge
5. Q - weapon skill 1
6. R - weapon skill 2
7. F - weapon skill 3 


Note that weapon skills share cooldown with all weapons - so weapon swapping is not nearly as viable due to this problem

One handed weapons -  you can pretty much to through half of the game just by using left click and nothing else - especially with a constant string of staggers (hatchet)

So PvE is basically left click

still find it really strange how people are praising combat in this game - when it's just mostly left click with occasional weapon skill thrown in there.

Dodge is space bar while pressing a directional key?

Yes. Still the classical fault of “more is better” is being made. New World combat combines the combat of survival games with a small dose of Dark Souls/Monster Hunter. The amount of abilities really doesn’t matter (Sekiro, one of the best and most tactical fighting games ever has one attack button for instance), the challenge of the fights and the animation lock rarely seen in MMORPGs can be discussed but are certainly not bad, just different then that which came before. I also have to remind people that most fights in MMORPGs are ridiculously easy, New World is actually a bit more difficult then most. Unless people still think og EQ is still the talk of the town and the industry standard.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Morgenes83

Imho its the perfect old fart action combat.
More tactical and less button spaming as e.g. ESO or BDO.
They already added a good animation cancelling at the end of alpha 2 which I guess is in place now.
As this was added very late it still needs some tweaks.

Besides the world and sounds, combat is the best thing at this game and a reason I havent given up although there are very bad design decisions regarding factions and wars/invasions.

lahnmir

Morgenes83 said:

Imho its the perfect old fart action combat.
More tactical and less button spaming as e.g. ESO or BDO.
They already added a good animation cancelling at the end of alpha 2 which I guess is in place now.
As this was added very late it still needs some tweaks.

Besides the world and sounds, combat is the best thing at this game and a reason I havent given up although there are very bad design decisions regarding factions and wars/invasions.

It most definitely isn’t the epilepsy inducing, grindy AOE, easy mode spazzfast that is BDO combat 

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

lahnmir

remsleep said:

lahnmir said:

MightyUnclean said:

remsleep said:

The entirety of combat is 7 buttons:

mouse:
1. Left click - light attack
2. Left click hold - heavy attack
3. right click  - block/aim (depending on weapon)

Keyboard:
4. space bar - dodge
5. Q - weapon skill 1
6. R - weapon skill 2
7. F - weapon skill 3 


Note that weapon skills share cooldown with all weapons - so weapon swapping is not nearly as viable due to this problem

One handed weapons -  you can pretty much to through half of the game just by using left click and nothing else - especially with a constant string of staggers (hatchet)

So PvE is basically left click

still find it really strange how people are praising combat in this game - when it's just mostly left click with occasional weapon skill thrown in there.

Dodge is space bar while pressing a directional key?

Yes. Still the classical fault of “more is better” is being made. New World combat combines the combat of survival games with a small dose of Dark Souls/Monster Hunter. The amount of abilities really doesn’t matter (Sekiro, one of the best and most tactical fighting games ever has one attack button for instance), the challenge of the fights and the animation lock rarely seen in MMORPGs can be discussed but are certainly not bad, just different then that which came before. I also have to remind people that most fights in MMORPGs are ridiculously easy, New World is actually a bit more difficult then most. Unless people still think og EQ is still the talk of the town and the industry standard.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

If New World even had 1/10th of precision and control that Dark Souls combat has it would be a miracle.

As a DS fan - it just hurts that anyone would even compare New Worlds combat to Dark Souls - this is just criminal to bring DS down to such low point

DS games give complete control to players - the timing windows are tight but precise.

This does not exist in New World combat.

“A small dose of Dark Souls,” lets not pull things completely out of context. And I am very well versed in the Souls series, Monster Hunter etc. etc. so lets not go there.

Being critical is fine. Combat wise New World needs to tighten its reaction windows, and its animations and consequential locks might be to long (its queueing of the follow up input most definitely is) but so far you have been picking literally all of its features apart, all of them. And although I find that entertaining I don’t think you really have an objective view of New World, you picked your fight and stuck with it.

I think the main disconnect for many is that this is a survival game with the MMORPG part built on top of that, not the other way around. Just did my first two hours last night and I’ll probably write a first impression a bit later on.

Grats on Hollow Knight btw, brilliant game.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Scorchien

The best word to describe it is ...... Shit

Nepheth

I actually prefer ESO's combat over this one which says a lot.

Scot

Oh no they have animation cancelling? That is such a lame method of sorting out combat issues and once they have it they may get stuck with it like ESO. I can only hope its a stop gap.

Wizardry

That is a setup i would not play or condone.Too many added keypresses is just bad,as it then becomes more about who is better on the keyboard than actual player skill.

Dodging should be a dbl tap and not direction+space bar,i wouldn't even be able to use space bar proficiently but i assume can be remapped.
weaponskill =no no and no,and why i never liked devs trying to add  rpg into pvp.There should be two attacks main and secondary and that's it,both off of the mouse.The keyboard should be strictly for moving around or if the game allows,possible weapon changes which again could be mapped to scroll wheel or 4th mouse button.

I never like any pvp that is not in it's purest form,also why i don't like a game like Fortnite that allows for multiple keybinding to give an advantage.

So for me NO advantages ever,not gear,not added keyboard use and hopefully not latency.In a rpg setting such as TNW latency will likely be a sad factor unlike old school fps arena action where we could hop around choosing our server of preference.I tried to lay out much of what i call a pure form of pvp and imo the best form but there is much more like map layout "this game doesn't have it" and sounds which again would be dependent on map layout "again this game doesn't have it".

Hence why i always say rpg type pvp is just bad,the lowest form of true pvp skill.

Bloodaxes

Scot said:

Oh no they have animation cancelling? That is such a lame method of sorting out combat issues and once they have it they may get stuck with it like ESO. I can only hope its a stop gap.

I didn't go fully in the combat/game, but no, not like ESO. 

An example I can give you is:

You start an attack, and before it lands you press right click and the character stops the attack to block. This reminds me of mount and blade's feinting which if done well, it can be quite skilful to master especially in pvp.

Aethaeryn

I'm with @Morgenes83 .  

At first I thought it was way to simple.  Eventually I had to pay attention.  It is sad to say this makes the combat better than many games I have played but it is true .

I am not looking for twitchy combat.  The monsters can hit hard and combat is faster paced in that sense than some other games.  If you get in over your head it can end quickly.  

For me the blocking (while, as mentioned, is likely unnecessary while spamming left click with a sword) makes a big difference and so does dodge.  They aren't necessary but they make a difference meaning you could tackle higher level mobs and can be more engaged in the combat if you want.  (less downtime for healing then)

For me it is just the right amount of skill needed to make the game fun.  Not challenging but not a snorefest.  It isn't completely based on gear and level as the mechanics can make a difference but you are fine to just stand there and swing.

I am sure there will be adjustments to the combat balance (there are a lot of issues here).  I found the skill trees let you play with the same weapon in different ways.   

I am not sure if I am an old fart (46) but the game works for me.  I found BDO two busy with combos (I am sure some people love it!).

This is a hard thing to judge by watching videos for sure.

Being able to cancel an attack ( and not do damage) is super helpful.  sometimes you are in some big lead up and the mob moves.  I did watch a Twitch stream where the players was saying that it doesn't really fool anyone in PvP and doesn't give any advantage.  I never used this in ESO though so I am not very familiar with it.  I just like to play and enjoy games

muthax

Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good

Just saying... 

And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA

And you know how that turned out

muthax

you haven't played c'mon, just admit it, you are reading nolifers on reddit and using that for your crusade

I am sorry, combat IS good

https://massivelyop.com/2020/08/25/hands-on-with-new-worlds-war-mode-all-the-fun-you-can-have-blowing-up-a-fortress-of-lumber/  (and Eliot NEVER likes anything)

https://www.mmorpg.com/new-world/previews/new-world-hands-on-preview-amazons-mmo-definitely-leaves-an-impression-2000117272

I am sorry but you really don't seem too...trustable

muthax

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

muthax said:

Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good

Just saying... 

And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA

And you know how that turned out

The only thing that could be improved a bit is the weapon swapping. But otherwise, combat is just fine, only the button mashers could eventually complain.

Remember, never take advice or opinions from someone who has demonstrated time and time again to have crappy tastes

It's like if someone was arguing that the Mad Max remake was crap, but he like Rise of the Skywalkers....

Aethaeryn

remsleep said:

Aethaeryn said:

I'm with @Morgenes83 .  

At first I thought it was way to simple.  Eventually I had to pay attention.  It is sad to say this makes the combat better than many games I have played but it is true .

I am not looking for twitchy combat.  The monsters can hit hard and combat is faster paced in that sense than some other games.  If you get in over your head it can end quickly.  

For me the blocking (while, as mentioned, is likely unnecessary while spamming left click with a sword) makes a big difference and so does dodge.  They aren't necessary but they make a difference meaning you could tackle higher level mobs and can be more engaged in the combat if you want.  (less downtime for healing then)

For me it is just the right amount of skill needed to make the game fun.  Not challenging but not a snorefest.  It isn't completely based on gear and level as the mechanics can make a difference but you are fine to just stand there and swing.

I am sure there will be adjustments to the combat balance (there are a lot of issues here).  I found the skill trees let you play with the same weapon in different ways.   

I am not sure if I am an old fart (46) but the game works for me.  I found BDO two busy with combos (I am sure some people love it!).

This is a hard thing to judge by watching videos for sure.

Being able to cancel an attack ( and not do damage) is super helpful.  sometimes you are in some big lead up and the mob moves.  I did watch a Twitch stream where the players was saying that it doesn't really fool anyone in PvP and doesn't give any advantage.  I never used this in ESO though so I am not very familiar with it.  I just like to play and enjoy games

The above is accurate of a lower level new player experience 

Once you go to 50+ - you will realize that gear means a lot

The power boost between tier 4 and tier 5 gear is huge, a fresh lvl 50 in tier 4 gear vs a level 50 in tier 5 gear - the difference is massive, 

That makes sense and I am actually okay with that.

Aethaeryn

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

muthax said:

Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good

Just saying... 

And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA

And you know how that turned out

The only thing that could be improved a bit is the weapon swapping. But otherwise, combat is just fine, only the button mashers could eventually complain.

I have noticed the weapon swapping to be strange.   When I think of problems like that I think they are all things that can be addressed.  I played the new Avengers game and it looked nice . . but it was just boring.  I am not sure that can be fixed.  Weapon swapping likely can.

I guess I am also judging this game based on the B2P price which seems super reasonable to me.

muthax

remsleep said:

muthax said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

muthax said:

Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good

Just saying... 

And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA

And you know how that turned out

The only thing that could be improved a bit is the weapon swapping. But otherwise, combat is just fine, only the button mashers could eventually complain.

Remember, never take advice or opinions from someone who has demonstrated time and time again to have crappy tastes

It's like if someone was arguing that the Mad Max remake was crap, but he like Rise of the Skywalkers....

Opinions vary 

Tastes are not crappy. They are just different. 

People who love New World - totally fine
People who don't- totally fine 

Your attempts to belittle those who have opinions and tastes that are different than yours is pretty sad

Everyone should form their own opinion based on first hand experience- what streamers or reviewers or forum posters say is completely irrelevant 

Says the guy who thinks that people that find the combat fine are out of their minds

Iselin

Aethaeryn said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

muthax said:

Outside of these forums, the combat is one of the things that gets praised more. Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good

Just saying... 

And BDO combat is mediocre at best, all this situation reminds me when Wildstar and ESO came out. Of course on these forums, Wildstar was going to wipe the floor with ESO and ESO was DOA

And you know how that turned out

The only thing that could be improved a bit is the weapon swapping. But otherwise, combat is just fine, only the button mashers could eventually complain.

I have noticed the weapon swapping to be strange.   When I think of problems like that I think they are all things that can be addressed.  I played the new Avengers game and it looked nice . . but it was just boring.  I am not sure that can be fixed.  Weapon swapping likely can.

I guess I am also judging this game based on the B2P price which seems super reasonable to me.

The part of combat I find most annoying is the weapon swapping. It just feels unresponsive and slow and it's something you do a lot when switching from ranged to melee when the mob gets near.

Other that that it's very different from other MMOs: not nearly as fast and responsive as ESO. It's hard to call it an action combat system. It feels more like a hybrid that uses the free aiming and active defenses of action combat but without the ability to instantly control your character like you can in most action combat games.

It's those "tactical" delays that are very much a deliberate part of their combat design that takes some getting used to.

muthax

remsleep said:

muthax said:

you haven't played c'mon, just admit it, you are reading nolifers on reddit and using that for your crusade

I am sorry, combat IS good

https://massivelyop.com/2020/08/25/hands-on-with-new-worlds-war-mode-all-the-fun-you-can-have-blowing-up-a-fortress-of-lumber/  (and Eliot NEVER likes anything)

https://www.mmorpg.com/new-world/previews/new-world-hands-on-preview-amazons-mmo-definitely-leaves-an-impression-2000117272

I am sorry but you really don't seem too...trustable

It is ok to have different opinions.

It is lame to call people no lifers and call them untrustworthy based on forum discussion.

We can fiercely disagree about video games and still remain civil and not resort to personal judgments and name calling

Let's stick to discussion about games - shifting the focus of discussion to people behind the posts is pointless 

So PA... it almost hurts

muthax

remsleep said:

muthax said:

Practically all streamers and articles point it out like something very good

Yep here on this very site - streamers like Doc would rather be playing Fall Guys than New world:

Kind of says a lot about how much fun they're having in New World, doesn't it?

So you are saying amazon didn't pay him? lol

while they paid this one


you really seem too obsessed, go find a game you like and have fun

muthax

So only good streamers are the ones who say that NW is crap

gotcha

Morgenes83

remsleep said:

Aethaeryn said:

I'm with @Morgenes83 .  

At first I thought it was way to simple.  Eventually I had to pay attention.  It is sad to say this makes the combat better than many games I have played but it is true .

I am not looking for twitchy combat.  The monsters can hit hard and combat is faster paced in that sense than some other games.  If you get in over your head it can end quickly.  

For me the blocking (while, as mentioned, is likely unnecessary while spamming left click with a sword) makes a big difference and so does dodge.  They aren't necessary but they make a difference meaning you could tackle higher level mobs and can be more engaged in the combat if you want.  (less downtime for healing then)

For me it is just the right amount of skill needed to make the game fun.  Not challenging but not a snorefest.  It isn't completely based on gear and level as the mechanics can make a difference but you are fine to just stand there and swing.

I am sure there will be adjustments to the combat balance (there are a lot of issues here).  I found the skill trees let you play with the same weapon in different ways.   

I am not sure if I am an old fart (46) but the game works for me.  I found BDO two busy with combos (I am sure some people love it!).

This is a hard thing to judge by watching videos for sure.

Being able to cancel an attack ( and not do damage) is super helpful.  sometimes you are in some big lead up and the mob moves.  I did watch a Twitch stream where the players was saying that it doesn't really fool anyone in PvP and doesn't give any advantage.  I never used this in ESO though so I am not very familiar with it.  I just like to play and enjoy games

The above is accurate of a lower level new player experience 

Once you go to 50+ - you will realize that gear means a lot

The power boost between tier 4 and tier 5 gear is huge, a fresh lvl 50 in tier 4 gear vs a level 50 in tier 5 gear - the difference is massive, 

I think this is ok as long as there will be no Gear Score increase every few months.
Sadly they do not want item decay although they got told that this kills crafting after some time.
So it seems they will go that route that the GS raises every few months to keep the PvE guys and crafters busy which will result in bigger and bigger gaps.

Regarding the skill queue.
Isnt it some kind of play skill to not press everything at once and queue it?
I mean its ok to have this system. Skilled players will not queue several attacks and therefor will be able to react.

And yes, the combat system is far from perfect, but it has a good base which may come out really good.

If now they would listen to some people showing them obvious flaws in several parts of the game (war/invasion, factions, itemization)

muthax

remsleep said:

muthax said:

So only good streamers are the ones who say that NW is crap

gotcha

You do realize you are the only one saying this? 

How did you come up with this conclusion? 

No, it's what you said

muthax

SkitzoX said:

Asmon is on our server. Our alliance already had 4 settlements claimed with a war decced on our 5th which we took on the second day and he joined our faction after we already clearly showed the imbalance on the map..like wtf? Would have loved to farm him.

Shows what kind of player he is tho imho 

I personally think Asmo is an ass but there are many others saying more or less the same

Not that I care what a streamer says (see AngryJoe's flip flops with ESO) but apparently listening to this forum majority of streamers are saying that combat is crap

guess what? apparently not

I make my own ideas playing a game, and definitely don't spend my time slagging it off online if I don't like it...

I invite people to do the same instead of reading the nonsense from people with a grudge 

muthax

remsleep said:

muthax said:

remsleep said:

muthax said:

So only good streamers are the ones who say that NW is crap

gotcha

You do realize you are the only one saying this? 

How did you come up with this conclusion? 

No, it's what you said

Go quote where I said this please 

Litteraly I have never uttered those words, guess who did?

You.

Nice attempt to put words in my mouth, why would you fabricate stuff like this?

Well you said that the streamers I linked were paid by Amazon, and the one/s you referred were the only trustable apparently

isn't the same thing?