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So is New World a real MMORPG?

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,202
    I think what bothers me most is "murdered".....Killing someone in a war is one thing, murdering someone is quite another, and when the murder is committed over and over then that is what leads us to think something is wrong with that person.
    GdemamiYashaXAlBQuirky
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    There's no difference between those people you describe if (for instance) they camp newbie zones and stop people from playing the game. They are all griefers.
    You are giving an example of griefing here. Griefing is typically something that even PVP games take actions against (or at least pay lip service to taking action against), rendering it "illegal".

    Griefing obviously can be achieved via repeated PKing. But PK is not always griefing, and ganking is not always griefing.

    bcbullyYashaX
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    I think what bothers me most is "murdered".....Killing someone in a war is one thing, murdering someone is quite another
    When playing a PVP game, killing another player is part of the "winning" (for profit or bragging rights). You create imaginary rules ("only with my consent", "only fair fights", "only in a war"), the game knows nothing about them.

    A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
    You cannot expect someone that went in a game to play it as designed to follow your arbitrary rules.
    and when the murder is committed over and over then that is what leads us to think something is wrong with that person.
    If this is griefing, it is typically covered by the game's EULA and common sense, and you have every right to complain (whether the game can or does anything to combat griefing is another thing).

    But repetitive killing is also not enough to qualify griefing. If I go in Albion to an alliance's territory 10 times to gather T8 nodes and get ganked and killed 10 times by the alliance because they want to keep those nodes for themselves that is not griefing, that's playing the game as intended.
    bcbullyYashaX
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    I don't know many who characterize PvPers as such.
    A large number of more examples here: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/307982/can-a-mmo-pker-ganker-be-a-kind-nice-person-in-rl/p1


    YashaX
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,322
    edited September 2020
    Someone who takes enjoyment in totally ruining another player's game time in a MMORPG has something wrong in his head.
    ...so you either:

    1) have no idea what you talk about and just make up dumb crap assumption because you don't play PVP games(MMORPGs)

    2) you do play PVP games(MMOROGs) despite it ruins your game time but then there is something wrong in your head because it is self-inflicted by joining a game that is apparently not for you
    bcbullyChildoftheShadows
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,313
    Gdemami said:
    Someone who takes enjoyment in totally ruining another player's game time in a MMORPG has something wrong in his head.
    ...so you either:

    1) have no idea what you talk about and just make up dumb crap assumption because you don't play PVP games(MMORPGs)

    2) you do play PVP games(MMOROGs) despite it ruins your game time but then there is something wrong in your head because it is self-inflicted by joining a game that is apparently not for you
    “ Do not bleat at me, little sheep, for this path you chose of your own free will. You knew the wolves lurked here, you simply chose to ignore them. Well I didn't ignore you, regardless of the cloak of illusion you cast about yourself as you seek your place in this world.





    - A Shriner, written for ArcticMUD circa 1992”
    tzervobotrytis
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,742
    edited September 2020
    bcbully said:
    ^^^Annnnnnnd this why I hate lying, sneaky, manipulative PvE guy. He feels he will have no repercussions to his actions.




    Two wrongs don't make one right. Two kind of cowards. Only in a PvP environment the guy can affect others way more than in any PvE environment. Facts.

    And as I said...


    Another thing that pisses of people about griefers is that they will find all kind of excuses to justify their behavior, when in reality they are just cowards and assholes.

    It never fails to prove me right.

    GdemamibotrytisbcbullyAlBQuirky
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,455
    WTF is up with all the typecasting and generalizations about PvErs and PvPers and the people who get bent out of shape when another player kills them instead of being killed by mob AI?

    Anyone who plays MMOs knows that there are good people and assholes playing PvP or PvE (and sorry but I do think that this is mostly reflective of their RL personalities.) The toxicity of toxic players doesn't need any kind of specific game mode to manifest itself. It doesn't even need a game mode: global chat is enough for trolls and weirdos to annoy their captive audience deliberately or not.

    I'm a PvXer and I've said many times that in ESO it's far more likely to see toxicity in PvE PUGs than in Cyrodiil PvP campaigns: queue jumpers queuing as tanks or healers when they're not forcing the rest of the group to deal with the group imbalance, the guys who run ahead to the next boss without bothering to kill trash along the way leaving the rest of the group to deal with the aggro, etc.

    But saying that all PvErs are selfish asshats based on that makes about as much sense as typecasting PvPers based on your run in with the one guy who stalked you and killed you repeatedly 10 years ago.

    "Red is dead" is the PvP default. This is true in OWPvP, flag PvP, scenarios or persistent PvP zones in otherwise PvE games. When someone gives you a pass, that's the unusual behavior and it might be because they wanted to be extra nice to you but more likely because they were busy doing something else and just didn't want to bother with you - the same way you avoid mobs in PvE sometimes because you're busy going somewhere.

    Yes, you will die much more often in PvP than in the typical modern PvE where deaths per week can be counted on one hand. Maybe that's the problem and PvE mobs need to get buffed to the point where PvErs get traumatized there too and start thinking of them as toxic psychopaths :)
    tzervoYashaXbcbullyJean-Luc_Picard
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,214
    NW is more a mmoRPG than many theme parks that came these last 10 years.
    lol and you base that on what exactly?

    image

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    edited September 2020
    Iselin said:

    But saying that all PvErs are selfish asshats based on that makes about as much sense as typecasting PvPers based on your run in with the one guy who stalked you and killed you repeatedly 10 years ago.
    I don't think anyone said that about all PVE'ers. The context is set by:
    tzervo said:
    PVE players that characterize PVPers as evil, psychopaths, etc. start with the wrong premise:
    ...

    Theocritus said:
    "You’ll probably be murdered in New World. So, yes, players will be able to freely kill other players"

    Does this really appeal to anyone other than the most demented of people?
    That's the PVE'ers that I am talking about and I argue to Jean-Luc_Picard that they are more than he thinks.
    YashaX
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,707
    tzervo said:
    PVE players that characterize PVPers as evil, psychopaths, etc. start with the wrong premise:

    - I do not like to be attacked and killed.
    - Therefore anyone attacking me is evil because they want to make me feel miserable.
    - Therefore everyone playing PVP games is evil because they want to make others feel miserable.

    Whereas the correct premise is:

    - I play a PVP game so I expect (and actually am counting on) players to attack me, or me to attack them.
    - That's what both of us find fun and that's the point of the game. I am not doing another player disservice by attacking them.
    - If I did not want other players to attack me I would not have chosen this game. If other players do not want me to attack them they should not play this game.

    It's not "just PvP", though. You have players that murder whole towns (NPCs), "just because they can." PvE has their own share of "evil dickwads", too.

    I knew the "well adjusted adult" comment would pop up. Not from you, tzervo. It sounds pretty sick to me, not "well adjusted" at all if you find being evil to other human beings in any venue "fun", make believe or not. It can be board or card games, organized sports, general "play." If someone is actively seeking to deny other human beings "fun", then they are far from "well adjusted."

    I guess I am guilty, too, trying to deny these "well adjusted humans" their idea of "fun" :lol:
    Jean-Luc_PicardCatibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    edited September 2020
    AlBQuirky said:

    It's not "just PvP", though. You have players that murder whole towns (NPCs), "just because they can." PvE has their own share of "evil dickwads", too.
    ...
    If someone is actively seeking to deny other human beings "fun", then they are far from "well adjusted."
    That's my point though :) The point of a PVP game is for people to go and fight against each other and kill each other. The assumption is that players of these games find it fun. There is nothing "evil" or "psychopathic" or "antisocial" to it because it was (or at least should be) their conscious choice. Noone is denying anyone else fun.

    If now a PVEer came to that game and wanted to impose not allowing PK under certain circumstances, he is trying to force his own arbitrary rules to a game that already has a well-defined and advertised ruleset. The PVEer is the offender that tries to deny the "fun", not the other way around.

    And obviously a part of the  PVP game's playerbase is antisocial and griefs. That is, like you say, not exclusive to PVP games. Iselin mentioned some examples above in PVE games.

    But I agree with Jean-Luc_Picard at this one point: PVP games give more tools and toys to griefers :) A cursory search online gives some journal papers which claim that antisocial behaviour is increased in PVP games, but I do not know how solid their research is - I am not qualified to judge them since it is not my field.
    AlBQuirkyYashaX
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,742
    NW is more a mmoRPG than many theme parks that came these last 10 years.
    lol and you base that on what exactly?

    - Not a theme park. Not another clone either.
    - True open world, no instances.
    - Player based economy.
    - Skill based character development, you can be what you want instead of being forced into a role by a class. You can even be a non combat character (crafter).
    - Design based on "realism", no mounts out of your pocket or bags, game will attempt to flee instead of having a rabbit or a chicken trying to kick your ass, the world is very immersive. Also, the world is not cramped with mobs every few meters.

    This game basically gives freedoms few other games give, specially all together. UO was one of those games. The "be what you want, do what you want" open design favors RP for those who are into it. It's been a long time since I have been immersed in a virtual world that much.
    tzervoAlBQuirkyYashaX
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,707
    tzervo said:
    AlBQuirky said:

    It's not "just PvP", though. You have players that murder whole towns (NPCs), "just because they can." PvE has their own share of "evil dickwads", too.
    ...
    If someone is actively seeking to deny other human beings "fun", then they are far from "well adjusted."
    That's my point though :) The point of a PVP game is for people to go and fight against each other and kill each other. The assumption is that players of these games find it fun. There is nothing "evil" or "psychopathic" or "antisocial" to it because it was (or at least should be) their conscious choice. Noone is denying anyone else fun.

    If now a PVEer came to that game and wanted to impose not allowing PK under certain circumstances, he is trying to force his own arbitrary rules to a game that already has a well-defined and advertised ruleset. The PVEer is the offender that tries to deny the "fun", not the other way around.

    And obviously a part of the  PVP game's playerbase is antisocial and griefs. That is, like you say, not exclusive to PVP games. Iselin mentioned some examples above in PVE games.

    But I agree with Jean-Luc_Picard at this one point: PVP games give more tools and toys to griefers :) A cursory search online gives some journal papers which claim that antisocial behaviour is increased in PVP games, but I do not know how solid their research is - I am not qualified to judge them since it is not my field.

    I wanted to expound on my original position, instead of "just agreeing" with your post :)

    I don't think PvP or it's participants are sick or mentally deranged. PvP is simple competition just like any other competitive activity. I'm not good at it and therefor don't find much "fun" with it. If I'm with a group who is far removed from "serious competition", I have a blast doing things to make others laugh, not "win at all costs."

    I'm also not saying that demented people only participate in PvP. They are found everywhere trying to spoil other people's enjoyment, even PvE.

    I just wanted to clarify that as it was bugging me :)
    tzervoCatibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,677
    I think what bothers me most is "murdered".....Killing someone in a war is one thing, murdering someone is quite another, and when the murder is committed over and over then that is what leads us to think something is wrong with that person.

    No, it's the same thing... one person taking the life of another. In war it happens over and over far more than it does outside of it.

    We just like to pretend otherwise, for if we did not it would be very difficult to live with ourselves during and after war.

    That we can collectively maintain a logical disconnect of that extremity suggests there is something wrong with all of us.
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