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Are mmorpgs boring?

13

Comments

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    bcbully said:
    PvE is terrible. How the hell people do the same scripted shit over and over, AND then ask for the same scripted shut in another game is beyond me.
    I had just read Cameltosis's post, and that's what struck me too. 
    I guess the "sugar hit" is the draw. 

    Thanks for reading, i know my walls of text can be a lot to get through!


    The answer to bcbully's question is "comfort".

    Playing games that you have already mastered (you understand the patterns) is comforting. For some players it is a power trip - being the master of something feels good - but for the majority of people it is simply that they find comfort in the familiar.


    This is the exact same reason why pop music sells well, why millions of people are happy to veg out in front of the TV watching sitcoms that teach you things you already know, and why the most popular fiction books are typically about the same subjects, the same adventurers, and the same solutions we already know.


    Nothing wrong with playing a game for comfort, as long as you are aware that it involves no personal growth and that playing for comfort is different to playing for fun. I personally play games for fun, but I do read books for comfort.
    I've been trying to think of a way to say what I want to say about this, which I agree with by the way. 
    But I'm afraid all I'll accomplish is to insult that type of player. And I don't really want to do that. I'm sure the majority of them are good people in RL.

    But in the end, it's their right to choose, and that's fine. 
    And may God rest their souls. 

    Once upon a time....

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,202
    bcbully said:
    PvE is terrible. How the hell people do the same scripted shit over and over, AND then ask for the same scripted shut in another game is beyond me.

    The challenge is what you make it.....I see players that are level 20 fighting in a level 5 zone...yeah thats no challenge and not much fun, but I would take my level 15 and try to fight in the level 20 zone...some games you could do that, otehr games you could not..... To me the PVP was never fun......The other players were always much higher level and getting killed in one or two hits constantly isn't fun either. It's only fun if you are the wolf and not the lamb.
    AlBQuirkyKyleranJean-Luc_Picardbcbully
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,742
    27 hours in New World so far, not bored yet...
    Gonna have to slow down a bit !
    Sovrathstrawhat0981muthaxKyleran
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,313
    edited August 2020
    AlBQuirky said:
    bcbully said:
    PvE is terrible. How the hell people do the same scripted shit over and over, AND then ask for the same scripted shut in another game is beyond me.
    I had just read Cameltosis's post, and that's what struck me too. 
    I guess the "sugar hit" is the draw. 
    Not really, for me. It's more about control of my personal environment. It's also why I dislike Raiding: Chaos is the name of the  game.

    I do appreciate the danger, but when massively multiplayer is the name of the game, that's too much chaos for me and is not even close to fun.

    PvE doesn't have to be scripted, but more often than not, that's what we get (thanks WoW). Just like bcbully, , it's hard for me to imagine players actually enjoying chaos on a massively multiplayer level. It's just too much constant attention for my idea of fun. Besides, I have no need to "prove my manhood" like bcbully seems to in PvP ;)
    Hahah Haaa I prove my manhood by satisfying my woman and the chick she picks.

    PvP is how I relax.
    AlBQuirkyAmatheKylerantzervo
  • muthaxmuthax Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Ungood said:

    That kind of approach I thought was a very nice way of dealing with the game, where "End Game" was vast and limitless as you wanted it to be.

    Then of course they put in Fractals, and then Raids.. and made "End Game" this little narrow spot like all other games, and ruined the very thing that made the game amazing to start with. But I am sure some loved it, because it was a like all those other games they don't play any more.



    That right there is exactly why I stopped playing GW2. They had a good horizontal progression system and they stood by it till the vocal minority started yelling for a WOW like progression and they bent over

    Arenanet lost my respect over the fractals 
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • muthaxmuthax Member UncommonPosts: 699
    27 hours in New World so far, not bored yet...
    Gonna have to slow down a bit !
    I don't know what I will do when the 5th comes

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    bcbully said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    bcbully said:
    PvE is terrible. How the hell people do the same scripted shit over and over, AND then ask for the same scripted shut in another game is beyond me.
    I had just read Cameltosis's post, and that's what struck me too. 
    I guess the "sugar hit" is the draw. 
    Not really, for me. It's more about control of my personal environment. It's also why I dislike Raiding: Chaos is the name of the  game.

    I do appreciate the danger, but when massively multiplayer is the name of the game, that's too much chaos for me and is not even close to fun.

    PvE doesn't have to be scripted, but more often than not, that's what we get (thanks WoW). Just like bcbully, , it's hard for me to imagine players actually enjoying chaos on a massively multiplayer level. It's just too much constant attention for my idea of fun. Besides, I have no need to "prove my manhood" like bcbully seems to in PvP ;)
    Hahah Haaa I prove my manhood by satisfying my woman and the chick she picks.

    PvP is how I relax.
    You must be a great cook.

    KylerantzervoAlBQuirkymuthax
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,202
    "ArcheAge - The game was in my opinion a masterpiece, ruined by greed ( Only managed to get 2-3 years out of it before I just couldn't take the P2W anymore )"

    I always wondered if I didn't miss something here.....To me the game was mediocre and nothing out of the ordinary, but when I read other players comments on it I wondered if I played the same game.
    AlBQuirkymuthaxbcbully
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    muthax said:
    27 hours in New World so far, not bored yet...
    Gonna have to slow down a bit !
    I don't know what I will do when the 5th comes

    I'm drinking mine. lol
    AlBQuirkybcbully

    Once upon a time....

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,053
    As others have said, I also enjoy doing the leveling stories for the first time.  But I can't be arsed to participate in end game activities.  I don't think I'm alone in mainly soloing in them and moving on to another game. 

    If any MMO had the right pieces to break the mold over time it was WOW.  But they were too afraid of losing subs so they kept copy pasting story ideas and reused tons of zone assets in new expacs.  That game very rarely took people out of their comfort level or advanced the genre.

    I've held for a while that it would probably take an amazing VR title to revitalize the genre, but I'm not so sure any more.  Truly dynamic worlds, which requires amazing AI, where each server can end up completely different might work.  But the advances of, and investment into, AI has been pretty crummy honestly.  Even in genres that depend on them like strategy games.
    AlBQuirkyMendel
  • Kuroi_TaigaKuroi_Taiga Member UncommonPosts: 29
    edited September 2020
    mmorpgs now are boring cause devs made it boring cause players got lazy.

    lazy players are a majority and devs just want money, so they make games according to it. look at New World, it was a very great chance for a good mmorpg and amazon downgraded it to a themepark clone with not even that much themepark features.

    why? cause the most of players whined about the game being to harsh, so they dumbed it down and now all that "lazy" players are playing it, giving money to amazon even tho they will likely quit in 3-4 months as soon as they maxed everything possible once the game gets released.

    we will never have a new UO-like experience, and i suffer about it everytime i look for some new MMO (Mortal Online 2 will help i hope, just like its prequel did)

    moreover people now are too spread between many apps like discord, messenger etc, back in the days we just had ICQ at max.
    then it was 100% in-game chat, it was way better cause you had a chance to both play and get to know people.
    nowadays people are stuck in discord and will login if you look for them, and it sucks.


    AlBQuirky
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    As others have said, I also enjoy doing the leveling stories for the first time.  But I can't be arsed to participate in end game activities.  I don't think I'm alone in mainly soloing in them and moving on to another game. 

    If any MMO had the right pieces to break the mold over time it was WOW.  But they were too afraid of losing subs so they kept copy pasting story ideas and reused tons of zone assets in new expacs.  That game very rarely took people out of their comfort level or advanced the genre.

    I've held for a while that it would probably take an amazing VR title to revitalize the genre, but I'm not so sure any more.  Truly dynamic worlds, which requires amazing AI, where each server can end up completely different might work.  But the advances of, and investment into, AI has been pretty crummy honestly.  Even in genres that depend on them like strategy games.
    There's a huge amount of processing power used for all that flash and explosions and effects.
    Way too much for my taste. 

    Take that, leave the game without all that "world ending devastation" every second, and you have a whole lot of processing power for a very dynamic game with AI to go along with it. 

    Raph Koster mentioned this in one of his interviews, and I thought that was pretty exciting. Also, he led the team that used some kind of world rendering system that replaced the need to download so much "world". That and other things lend faith in his capabilities. He's, perhaps, the best technical creator in the business. He's got such a clear head about the logic of it all. 

    AlBQuirky

    Once upon a time....

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    mmorpgs now are boring cause devs made it boring cause players got lazy.

    lazy players are a majority and devs just want money, so they make games according to it. look at New World, it was a very great chance for a good mmorpg and amazon downgraded it to a themepark clone with not even that much themepark features.

    why? cause the most of players whined about the game being to harsh, so they dumbed it down and now all that "lazy" players are playing it, giving money to amazon even tho they will likely quit in 3-4 months as soon as they maxed everything possible once the game gets released.

    we will never have a new UO-like experience, and i suffer about it everytime i look for some new MMO (Mortal Online 2 will help i hope, just like its prequel did)

    moreover people now are too spread between many apps like discord, messenger etc, back in the days we just had ICQ at max.
    then it was 100% in-game chat, it was way better cause you had a chance to both play and get to know people.
    nowadays people are stuck in discord and will login if you look for them, and it sucks.


    If I understand you correctly, it seems to me that you want a game where players want to log in every chance they get. 
    There's so much that's left off the table in modern games. That means there's plenty to attract them, that they haven't seen yet (or since years ago, in some cases). 
    Games have been far too one dimentional. Huge drops from UO, EQ, and AC. 

    AlBQuirkyKuroi_Taiga

    Once upon a time....

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    edited September 2020
    As others have said, I also enjoy doing the leveling stories for the first time.  But I can't be arsed to participate in end game activities.  I don't think I'm alone in mainly soloing in them and moving on to another game.  
    I was always curious why people that play MMORPG's solo and single-playthrough don't opt for single player/co-op RPGs.

    I understand people that go beyond the story, even solo, opt for an MMORPG for the social ambience. I assume you could say the same for story playthrough soloers but I find this advantage weaker compared to a better story or systems that a single player MMORPG can provide.
    AlBQuirkyTwistedSister77
  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,715
    edited September 2020
    tzervo said:
    As others have said, I also enjoy doing the leveling stories for the first time.  But I can't be arsed to participate in end game activities.  I don't think I'm alone in mainly soloing in them and moving on to another game.  
    I was always curious why people that play MMORPG's solo and single-playthrough don't opt for single player/co-op RPGs.

    I understand people that go beyond the story, even solo, opt for an MMORPG for the social ambience. I assume you could say the same for story playthrough soloers but I find this advantage weaker compared to a better story or systems that a single player MMORPG can provide.

    I don't think there is one single answer to why people will 100% (emphatically at times) solo a multiplayer game.

    I've been down both roads, and find i'm usually somewhere in the middle.

    The one attractive reason for a solo player is that, you're not alone. I know right. They want to be alone, but not interact or play with anyone? Really they are not alone there are other players around, there is chat, active auction house, there is dynamic play and slight feeling of anything can happen.

    Some players can be unequivocally dedicated, i mean this made zero sense to me and still doesn't to this day, but was in EQ2 (golden era) and needed chomper part of foomby's stolen goods, he was solo'able, under con a real challenge if not geared well, survivability at con would be so much better with another player, so i head on down to Chomper's pond and there is another player there camping old chomp.

    No problem send tell, invite and we got this. Promptly Rejected!!! WTF? Haha guy probably clicked cancel by accident, that's cool i'll send again. Sent, and wait, and wait, and wait... omg really. So i canceled and sent again, maybe i made a typo, sent, wait about a minute and then canceled again.

    Then i get a tell.

    I've only been camping xx amount of hours but you go ahead and take it.

    OK WTF? are you talking about?

    At least the girl/guy engaged in convo, i'm like why not group for the kill credit, NOPE, they solo it all, anything they can't they don't, mmorpg were brutally difficult back then comparatively from today's versions, for those unaware.

    So i be like just group ffs, this thing gonna spawn eventually, i'd like this resolved before that time obv, one good thing with the two of us there people would come up and take off, they figured it's not worth competing for for first strike, anyway i dunno super long time passes, I'd been trying to tell this person just group, they are alike no, you go ahead(as in me) i'm like no f'ing way you were here first.

    Chomper pops. I refuse to strike first. Take it i tell them. No they said they like to be alone and solo everything, i'm like f off, just group or take it ffs, concern is growing as we'd been there for hour(s) and now Chomp's is open season with the two of us just standing there looking stupid, they on the weedy part of the shore i'm on the little dock.

    The solo player starts to leave, i'm like please just group, they replied it's ok gotta go anyway, so i strike fast af, battling chomps for several minutes, the solo person comes back and sits on the dock and watches, omg really, finally as i almost have chomp near death i send on a final group invite for kill cred, rejected.

    Anyway, they send tell, Grats!!! like OMG thanks but you could have just grouped ffs. Anyway i'm heading out and there they are camping it all over again.

    There you go a hard core solo player, but our encounter is something no single player game will ever give, random events, random encounter, and never really alone.
    AlBQuirky
    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Remember your ABC's, Always Be Casting! - Preheat 2021

    Currently Playing; WOW, SWG:L

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    edited September 2020
    xpsync said:

    I don't think there is one single answer to why people will 100% (emphatically at times about it) solo a multiplayer game.

    I've been down both roads, and find i'm usually somewhere in the middle.

    The one attractive reason for a solo player is that, you're not alone. I know right. They want to be alone, but not interact or play with anyone? Really they are not alone there are other players around, there is chat, active auction house, there is dynamic play and slight feeling of anything can happen.

    I am not arguing that there is no reason to solo a MMORPG. There are many reasons like you said and there is the ambient social aspect on top of that. But soloing just the story and going to the next game sounds very similar to the experience one would get from a single player RPG, only with inferior story since the focus on an MMORPG is divided to the end-game and non-solo aspects of it, and such a playthrough would not take advantage of the social ambience that much anyway.
    AlBQuirky
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,053
    tzervo said:
    As others have said, I also enjoy doing the leveling stories for the first time.  But I can't be arsed to participate in end game activities.  I don't think I'm alone in mainly soloing in them and moving on to another game.  
    I was always curious why people that play MMORPG's solo and single-playthrough don't opt for single player/co-op RPGs.

    I understand people that go beyond the story, even solo, opt for an MMORPG for the social ambience. I assume you could say the same for story playthrough soloers but I find this advantage weaker compared to a better story or systems that a single player MMORPG can provide.

    Well I just replayed Skyrim before starting ESO.  But there is one big reason why I prefer soloing MMOs rather than solo RPGs.  I like chat in RPGs.  And it's nice to be able to ask questions while playing.  So I get the best of both worlds in that I can go wherever the hell I want and do what I want, but also not feel like I'm all alone.

    MMOs also allow you the option to later participate in endgame activities if you choose to. 

    I also almost solely play ladder based ARPGs rather than soloing offline.  And I'm far from the only one to do so.  I like the option of socializing and grouping when I feel like it.
    tzervoUngoodAlBQuirky
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,053
    edited September 2020
    I should also mention that if you are a big fan of an IP, there aren't tons of options for solo RPGs within them.  And so it makes games like WOW, SWTOR, LOTRO and even ESO(considering how old the single player titles are) more attractive to soloers.

    Games within a brand new IP are a much tougher sell for me.
    tzervoAlBQuirky
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,202
    tzervo said:
    As others have said, I also enjoy doing the leveling stories for the first time.  But I can't be arsed to participate in end game activities.  I don't think I'm alone in mainly soloing in them and moving on to another game.  
    I was always curious why people that play MMORPG's solo and single-playthrough don't opt for single player/co-op RPGs.

    I understand people that go beyond the story, even solo, opt for an MMORPG for the social ambience. I assume you could say the same for story playthrough soloers but I find this advantage weaker compared to a better story or systems that a single player MMORPG can provide.

    I think people like having other people around and to chat occasionally. It's nice to have others to sell your wares to, but when it comes to actually playing with them, then it's a big NO.
    tzervoAlBQuirky
  • phoenixfire2phoenixfire2 Member UncommonPosts: 214
    I don't think it's possible to recapture the magic you felt playing your first MMO.  For me it was also EQ and nothing else has compared nor do I expect anything to ever compare to it.  I felt a smaller amount of it with WoW circa 2004, but now WoW has stifled all innovation in the genre and there's no more magic to be found.
    AmatheAlBQuirkyMendel
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    I don't think it's possible to recapture the magic you felt playing your first MMO.  For me it was also EQ and nothing else has compared nor do I expect anything to ever compare to it.  I felt a smaller amount of it with WoW circa 2004, but now WoW has stifled all innovation in the genre and there's no more magic to be found.
    Of course it's possible. 
    Just: 
    - remove all the auto-interactions so players interact themselves, 
    - design multiple means of interactions, 
    - make interaction with others very beneficial in all ways, not just grouping in one-off "quests", 
    - and for God's sake, remove these wildly crazy power gaps so players aren't auto-divided and separated almost at birth. 

    Once players are no longer separated by the hypnotic gaze of crazy Power Gaps, and Guilds with strong social ties are the norm, then you can also have guild interactions, alliances, and co-ops by players in a mutually beneficial way, too. 

    Enough of this "Lord Of The Flies" design. Once you make interactions beneficial (and interesting), you'll see a whole different attitude from most players. 
    AlBQuirkyGdemamiCuddleheart

    Once upon a time....

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,742
    Hum, sorry, but huge "power gaps" already existed in Everquest, it's the game which started that model.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 10700k (5.10ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    edited September 2020
    Hum, sorry, but huge "power gaps" already existed in Everquest, it's the game which started that model.
    I'm not sure of your point (other than it's a fact). I've said that for years.

    Gdemami

    Once upon a time....

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,707
    Hum, sorry, but huge "power gaps" already existed in Everquest, it's the game which started that model.

    For me, that's fine and dandy. I'm certainly not in the "everyone is equal/the same" camp, as many here are. I enjoy differences and especially diversity. Thus what you choose matters, like race or class.

    It may be because I started with EQ, but more than likely because I played TTRPGs before MMORPGs.

    This is why I don't bitch and moan when some class is "better than" (PvP) mine or if some class gets abilities I don't (PvE). RPGs, for me are about the differences and how to work together.

    Yet I understand fully why most players want "total freedom" (no classes) and bland equality (my term). Not saying you do, but your comment seems to say power gaps are bad.

    Power gaps are great, in my opinion. You "used" to meet so many new and different people with them in place as the hardcore players level past you and new players catch up to you. It's usually players who got left behind that complain about them and coined the term "no lifers."

    GdemamiIselinphoenixfire2

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 310
    I don't think it's possible to recapture the magic you felt playing your first MMO.  For me it was also EQ and nothing else has compared nor do I expect anything to ever compare to it.  I felt a smaller amount of it with WoW circa 2004, but now WoW has stifled all innovation in the genre and there's no more magic to be found.
    Of course it's possible. 
    Just: 
    - remove all the auto-interactions so players interact themselves, 
    - design multiple means of interactions, 
    - make interaction with others very beneficial in all ways, not just grouping in one-off "quests", 
    - and for God's sake, remove these wildly crazy power gaps so players aren't auto-divided and separated almost at birth. 

    Once players are no longer separated by the hypnotic gaze of crazy Power Gaps, and Guilds with strong social ties are the norm, then you can also have guild interactions, alliances, and co-ops by players in a mutually beneficial way, too. 

    Enough of this "Lord Of The Flies" design. Once you make interactions beneficial (and interesting), you'll see a whole different attitude from most players. 

    You make some good points.  In retrospect, most MMOs weren't really great games.  In a lot of ways, games like EQ were more like AOL chat rooms with an RPG over it.  I believe that's one reason a lot of old MMO devs are failing in later projects.  They don't see that it was the tight knit communities more than their "genius" game design that made early MMOs great.  I'm not saying they weren't deep games doing innovative things - especially for the time, but it really was the people that made that era so much fun!

    Give me cool people, some satisfying gameplay loops, and a reason to do it together and I'm happy any day.
    AlBQuirkyUngoodAmarantharGdemami
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