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Do you like zones with different levels, or all zones match your level?

2

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  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,511
    For me, I liked some aspect of the original FFXIV. There was a multitude of enemies with varying difficulty. On top of that, the open dungeons it had, had stronger and stronger foes the deeper you delved into them. This gave me a sense of mystery as you never know what's at the next floor until you're strong enough to venture into it.

    So, yes. I'd prefer if there was variance instead of zones where you go once and never again.
    AlBQuirky

  • LithuanianLithuanian Member UncommonPosts: 442
    I prefer Lotro's model with fixed levels. Level 20-30 - zone A, lvl. 30-40 - zone B, levels 40-45 - zones C and D. For more xp or better crafting materials I may go to higher zone or I can pick safer territory.

    What really p*ssed me - forced adjusting, like GW2 and SWTOR. A powerfull Sith lands on lowby planet - and hurray, he is lowby again. I do like when: a) I am totally safe and b) should newbie ask for help, I would stomp any enemy to the ground.
    AlBQuirky
  • SweedeSweede Member UncommonPosts: 207
    I hate can't say i am a fan of leveling content / dungeons, like the elder scrolls games, if i get smoked in a dungeon at lvl 1 and come back at 10 and still get smoked what is the frigging point of leveling/gearing up? hell back in 2002 or so i took a lvl 9 Dark elf rogue trough the scary lvl 30+ zones of Velious in Everquest, the joy of it was that if i got spotted i would be dead, if everything had scaled down to my level it would have been meh, why bother.
    AlBQuirkyTuor7

    image

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,677
    Either is fine, so long as I enjoy the game.
    AlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,540
    With Bethesda planning on putting One Fallout in place soon some of us are wondering if it's about time to find a new game.

    I've never played ESO after One Tameril, nor any of the other games which level scale like this.


    AlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,677
    Kyleran said:
    With Bethesda planning on putting One Fallout in place soon some of us are wondering if it's about time to find a new game.

    I've never played ESO after One Tameril, nor any of the other games which level scale like this.



    It will be interesting to see what that the fallout of that change will be. One Tamriel seemed to go over well enough in general. If the same happens here, Bethseda may become predisposed to it in future products.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,202
    We just had a huge discussion on this not long ago.
    AlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,677
    We just had a huge discussion on this not long ago.

    We will likely have another not long from now.
    TheocritusAlBQuirkyKyleranHawkaya399
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member RarePosts: 599
    I like the traditional fixed zones, but prefer an open world mmorpg where you'll learn locations of stronger monsters. I dislike level scaling unless for dungeons.

    MurderHerd

  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,715
    When they brought level scaling to eso, it was the beginning of the end for me, at first i thought it was awesome in that it made it a huge world to romp around in and explore, and the mobs were challenging af, nice tough fights where you started to actually pay attention to what spell is doing what as it started to matter, then the qq started as most of eso's player base are single player push button i win gamers.

    Not knocking anyone, it's only what single player gamers expect, to win every time, time and time again, and that's cool for them that they have an mmo game focused on the single player gamer in mind.

    I dunno then they made it a wash again, meh.

    It's why classic is f'ing popular.
    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Remember your ABC's, Always Be Casting! - Preheat 2021

    Currently Playing; WOW, SWG:L

  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,715
    edited August 2020
    Kyleran said:
    With Bethesda planning on putting One Fallout in place soon some of us are wondering if it's about time to find a new game.

    I've never played ESO after One Tameril, nor any of the other games which level scale like this.



    No way you're not serious, and yes that my shocked that they'd do that but f'me now that will kill F76 for me.

    F'me right we had something great, only to be modernized into a dumpster fire all in the name of "Modernization"

    I pay the Fallout 1st sub, yearly, just canceled on this news, wasn't playing it much but knew one thing for sure, no way i was done with it. Now i am.
    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Remember your ABC's, Always Be Casting! - Preheat 2021

    Currently Playing; WOW, SWG:L

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 1,677
    xpsync said:
    When they brought level scaling to eso, it was the beginning of the end for me, at first i thought it was awesome in that it made it a huge world to romp around in and explore, and the mobs were challenging af, nice tough fights where you started to actually pay attention to what spell is doing what as it started to matter, then the qq started as most of eso's player base are single player push button i win gamers.

    Not knocking anyone, it's only what single player gamers expect, to win every time, time and time again, and that's cool for them that they have an mmo game focused on the single player gamer in mind.

    I dunno then they made it a wash again, meh.

    It's why classic is f'ing popular.
    Claiming most ESO players are "single player push button i win gamers" is knocking many, many players based on nothing but your presumption alone. You are free to do so of course, but at least be honest with yourself while you indulge.
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,214
    I like, NO CHARACTER LEVELS!

    How about them apples!!??
    AlBQuirky[Deleted User]

    image

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,996
    edited September 2020
    I like the scaled leveling better, but with optional bosses and events that are generally more challenging, out in the open world. If Fallout 76 goes the route of ESO in that regard, I would probably enjoy it a bit more, but I just picked up the game a month ago. Barely level 25.
    AlBQuirky

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • BestinnaBestinna Member UncommonPosts: 190
    olepi said:
    In the early MMORPG's, zones were level fixed, so there was a beginner zone, an intermediate zone, a high-level zone, etc. As a new character, you couldn't go to the high-level zone without getting instantly killed. Once you out-leveled a zone, there was little reason to go back.

    Some games had a mix, so that a low-level zone might have a camp of higher mobs in it.

    New games, like ESO, have made it so that all zones appear the same to the character. This means a new character can go almost anywhere, and you can't out-level a zone once you finish it. But it also makes it kind of monotonous, since you can't venture into a super dangerous higher zone for fun.

    My optimum case would be zones that appear the same, except with a caveat. If you are lvl 10, for example, and go into a higher level zone, say a lvl 50 zone, the mobs appear +1 level to you for every 10 levels. So a lvl 10 character in a 50 zone would see +4 mobs. That preserves the danger of going into a zone that is too high, but still allows you to explore everywhere.

    I also like the mix, where you might suddenly stumble upon a camp of higher mobs in a lower level zone. So even though you are in a lvl 10 zone, with a lvl 10 toon, you might encounter a camp of +4 mobs.
    your idea is better than any existing system inside of a game
    AlBQuirky
  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,528
    Kind of depends on what I want to do.  There are times I'm either doing deeds and want to just blow through it as fast as I can OR just want to blow off steam and wack stuff and other times I want to PLAY and fighting mob's on my level is what I'm looking for.

    I'm playing games that handle it both ways; get leveled down to the zone and others I can be over leveled.

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    Lonesols said:
    olepi said:
    In the early MMORPG's, zones were level fixed, so there was a beginner zone, an intermediate zone, a high-level zone, etc. As a new character, you couldn't go to the high-level zone without getting instantly killed. Once you out-leveled a zone, there was little reason to go back.

    Some games had a mix, so that a low-level zone might have a camp of higher mobs in it.

    New games, like ESO, have made it so that all zones appear the same to the character. This means a new character can go almost anywhere, and you can't out-level a zone once you finish it. But it also makes it kind of monotonous, since you can't venture into a super dangerous higher zone for fun.

    My optimum case would be zones that appear the same, except with a caveat. If you are lvl 10, for example, and go into a higher level zone, say a lvl 50 zone, the mobs appear +1 level to you for every 10 levels. So a lvl 10 character in a 50 zone would see +4 mobs. That preserves the danger of going into a zone that is too high, but still allows you to explore everywhere.

    I also like the mix, where you might suddenly stumble upon a camp of higher mobs in a lower level zone. So even though you are in a lvl 10 zone, with a lvl 10 toon, you might encounter a camp of +4 mobs.
    I think they both suck lol, I remember when i made it to eq2 lvl 30, and the zone was just a re hash of the same stuff, but differnt names. Got bored and gave up. ESO, is so simple and you know you can beat everything its also boring. I like the way I did skyrim, you never knew what level anything was lol, it was random. You could roll up to that bandit camp and they might be lvl 1 or might be max level, never knew till you got your ass handed to you haha. None of the games do that, it is just a boring ass grinder with no thrills to me any more.

    Ulitma online did great at doing that tho, you never knew what the hell you were going to get into. No levels no nothing, and randomized stats of everything, might attack the creature and wipe it, and the next time u see one it will face roll you. 


    Just a correction on Ultima Online. The spawns were in a range, not totally random. But they'd grow in skill too, if they didn't die, due to combat gains. That was rare, but could happen in less travelled areas. 

    There was a "super chicken" once that grew so powerful that it was killing everyone that attacked it. Often new characters getting their arse handed to them, as the more experienced characters were getting their feathers from bigger critters like Harpies that dropped many more feathers.
    The GMs organized a hunt for this chicken to track it down and get rid of it. They added an upper level range limit to critters after that so it couldn't happen again. 

    UO also had some strangeness, possibly unknown aspects. 
    I swear that large, towering critters hit you in the head more often than in other parts of the body. I noticed this when I was not wearing a helmet. Everyone thought, like other games, that your armor rating was overall, I'm not so sure. 
    tzervoAlBQuirky

    Once upon a time....

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    I don't like scaling because it makes progression feel meaningless. 

    I don't like huge power gaps in level based games (as they usually are) because it locks you into a small part of the content at any given time, which feels controlled and contrived. 
    AlBQuirky[Deleted User]

    Once upon a time....

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,455
    As long as there is a progression of mob types and tougher combat AI when you go to more difficult areas I couldn't care less what level number they're tagged with.

    What I detest with a passion is the same mob with the same moves but now with a higher level tag and 10 times the HP.
    AmarantharAlBQuirkyKyleran
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  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,061
    Iselin said:

    What I detest with a passion is the same mob with the same moves but now with a higher level tag and 10 times the HP.
    Often it is a different mob with the same moves but now with a higher level tag and 10 times the HP  :P 
    AlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,455
    tzervo said:
    Iselin said:

    What I detest with a passion is the same mob with the same moves but now with a higher level tag and 10 times the HP.
    Often it is a different mob with the same moves but now with a higher level tag and 10 times the HP  :P 
    Or even an upsized rat now with a purple glow :)
    tzervoAlBQuirky
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,805
    Devs are so far off into space on designing zones it makes them look VERY lazy and dumb.

    A zone should have an ECO system and within that eco system we should see it at play at all times.So for example Tigers should be preying on smaller foe,Bears eating berries or in the water looking for fish etc etc..We should see plant eaters devouring vegetation "harvests" if left unchecked.

    Devs should be creating a WORLD that looks and feels like a world instead of some 2048x2048 box with all level 20-22 in it.
    Devs just take the easy lazy way out and even do that same lazy design with gear/items.They don't want their team to think at all,here take this easy design and just do it.
    AlBQuirky

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • olepiolepi Member RarePosts: 1,557
    Wizardry said:
    Devs are so far off into space on designing zones it makes them look VERY lazy and dumb.

    A zone should have an ECO system and within that eco system we should see it at play at all times.So for example Tigers should be preying on smaller foe,Bears eating berries or in the water looking for fish etc etc..We should see plant eaters devouring vegetation "harvests" if left unchecked.

    Devs should be creating a WORLD that looks and feels like a world instead of some 2048x2048 box with all level 20-22 in it.
    Devs just take the easy lazy way out and even do that same lazy design with gear/items.They don't want their team to think at all,here take this easy design and just do it.
    This is why I still keep going back to Ryzom. Each zone has different levels, but also has predators and prey with their own routines. Normally, the predators can kill you while you can kill the prey.

    With seasons, a day/night cycle, and weather that makes a difference, you'll see herds of prey migrate based on the seasons. You may watch the predators wake up, go out hunting, and make a kill. That is when you might sneak by. Mats you need may only be available in the rain, or at night.
    AlBQuirky

    ------------
    2020: 43 years on the Net.


  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 604
    edited September 2020
    I don't think there's a single answer. Different players, different stroke. Same for game designers. Different designers, different strokes, although everobyd falls into groups, some small, some big, so it's not like we're all disagreeing with each other.

    Key to remember is when you arrive at an answer for yourself, remember it's not going to apply to everybody.

    So where do I fall amongst the masses? In SP rpgs I've tended to play traditional non-scaled games. In MMORPGs, same thing, but I did play some instanced scaled missions inEverquest (LDON). Overall, my opinion is somewhat unset, but I think for MMORPG's it's difficult to convincingly have a scaled world because not all players are teh same level. For me, that breaks hte sense of immersion knowing that the game wolrd is different for each player. I really am unfriendly to the concept of the world revolving around the player. I sympathize with the phrase used by Verant Interactive early in EQ's life: "You're in our world now." I like a world to be what it's and not cater to our every need. I think overdesigning/overbalacing is bad but game designers are always tempted to "fix" things that shouldn't be fixed regardless what I think.

    Mainly, my perspective is games should be more about creating a world and less about creating a game. That's just how I feel about it. I don't demand games be fun, but I do demand they be immersive,. For many players I thnk ti's hard for them to wrap their mind around the idea of a game not necessarily being fun. I think people like me are often thought of as masochists, but I think truth is we're all different a bit, sometimes very, and sometimes it's hard for us to understand each other.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    AlBQuirky
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 604
    edited September 2020
    Lonesols said:
    Wizardry said:
    *skip*
    Well besides one mmorpg which failed, ryzom, and skyrim heavily modded no game has a eco system like that. Dark fall was suppose to have that, with top notch ai, but gave us dumpster drivel. 
    *skip*

    Ryzom you could read a 20 page basic idea on crafting, but you still aren't gonna be any where close to understanding the entire thing. Ryzom has 100 players. 

    By 2021 games will play the selves and people will just watch haha, o wait there are already hugely popular games that do that. 



    Devils' always in the details. Ryzom's problem is old and it's appealing mainly to crafters (and now mainly those with older PC's). I tried Ryzom for a while but its problem, for me anyway, is it was so anti PVE, to the extent that nearly everything is crafted. The ai and ecossytems are overstated--what matters are the end results!!! So there's crowds of animals herding and using simple evasion and social schemes, that few if any modern mmorpgs still use, but who really cares when this is what it amoutns to???? It's nothnig like hte finely crafted encounters with different tactics in other mmorpgs. It's not like traditioanal rpgs where you can find weapons and armor on NPCs either. Everything is tied to craftong--EVERYTHING. There're no dungeons. That's huge!!! And early on, there were very few quests--those were added much later over time. It doesn't even have a real bonadide sandbox, like Wurm Online or Mortal Online, persistant non-instnaced worlds where you can build a home or city. Yes yo ucan rent instnaced apartments in the cities, but they're not customizable--it's not evne close to being compared to something like Ultima Online housing.

    Truth is there's much more going on than just the ai ecosystems in Ryzom to explain why it's not popular.

    I tried Darkfall Rise of Agon. For me anyway, it was mcuh funner. The monsters actually do try to evade and seek cover. But really ai in mmorpgs isn't even close to being where you imply it's at. Darkfall also had dungeons and FFA PvP--and also has similar housing/clan sandbox. (What beats player ai intelligence????)

    Early on Ultima Online tried to have ai and ecosystems but they ended up deleeting all of it and going wit hteh standard model. Sad. I wish they'd kept experimenting. Raph Koster has written articles about it and he's really at the forefront of this topic honestly.

    EDIT: Sorry if I come across insensitive. Ryzom is an amazing mmorpg. I'll probably play again someday. It's just not the ultimate answer you imply it to be. It won't appeal to everyoen for a good reason. For crafters i'd recommend wholeheartedly, especially for ones who like sandbox-oriented worlds, but don't like pure sandboxes.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    AlBQuirky
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