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Pantheon - What You Need to Know from July 30ths State of the Game

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    edited August 1
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.
    TacticalZombehBrainy

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  • kaladek51kaladek51 Member UncommonPosts: 65
    Been following this game for 6 years now. No end or completion in sight. Seems like they are 1.5 years behind schedule. Guess ill check in next year.
    YashaX
  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 1,997

    Rhoklaw said:



    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.


    Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.



    If you die to AI that should make you question those things without a death penalty. I mean, you died to AI.
    bcbully
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,552
    kaladek51 said:
    Been following this game for 6 years now. No end or completion in sight. Seems like they are 1.5 years behind schedule. Guess ill check in next year.
    Well this is pre-alpha 5, so I would expect a release sometime in the next 20 years.
    ....
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    kaladek51 said:
    Been following this game for 6 years now. No end or completion in sight. Seems like they are 1.5 years behind schedule. Guess ill check in next year.
    Inside scoop is 18 months

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,826

    Rhoklaw said:



    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.


    Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.



    If you die to AI that should make you question those things without a death penalty. I mean, you died to AI.
    Dumbest thing I read today. 
    achesomaTacticalZombehBluefishstrawhat0981LackingMMObcbully
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,243
    kaladek51 said:
    Been following this game for 6 years now. No end or completion in sight. Seems like they are 1.5 years behind schedule. Guess ill check in next year.
    Inside scoop is 18 months
    If you get upset about waiting for MMOs. My 22 years of MMOing has taught me. Stop waiting and go play some games you enjoy. MMOs are almost always late and with so many moving parts, its to be expected. 
    TacticalZombeh
  • achesomaachesoma Member RarePosts: 1,224
    kaladek51 said:
    Been following this game for 6 years now. No end or completion in sight. Seems like they are 1.5 years behind schedule. Guess ill check in next year.
    Inside scoop is 18 months
    I want this game to launch as much as anyone but I’ll be stunned if this launches before 2023. 
    strawhat0981
    Image result for pantheon mmo banners
  • marsxwarmarsxwar Member UncommonPosts: 12
    I didn't know people who're hyped for this game still existed.
  • marsxwarmarsxwar Member UncommonPosts: 12

    Rhoklaw said:



    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.


    Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.




    Yes, running back to your corpse and grinding back whatever that was lost sounds like fun in 1999, apparently the year you're still living in.
  • goozmaniagoozmania Member UncommonPosts: 318

    McSleaz said:

    Another game setting itself up for failure by listening to the Vocal Minority that thinks it's a majority.



    Wildstar proved there is no market for "Hardcore", This game will die the same death.



    Nobody has claimed they are the majority... In fact, quite the opposite. The devs have even said the game is being made for the niche. GTFOH
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,021
    If doing a corpse run is difficult, than here's a solution. Don't die.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,021
    marsxwar said:

    Rhoklaw said:



    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.


    Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.




    Yes, running back to your corpse and grinding back whatever that was lost sounds like fun in 1999, apparently the year you're still living in.
    Playing a game where death is meaningless sounds pretty amazing too, enjoy your game and I'll enjoy mine.

  • BrainyBrainy Member UncommonPosts: 345
    Scot said:
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.

    There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.

    Things like:
    Corpse runs
    Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
    Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
    Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)


    I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.



    Scot
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,021
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.

    There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.

    Things like:
    Corpse runs
    Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
    Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
    Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)


    I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.



    Or better yet, research the game because maybe, just MAYBE, you're not their target audience.
    Kyleran

  • BrainyBrainy Member UncommonPosts: 345
    Rhoklaw said:
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.

    There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.

    Things like:
    Corpse runs
    Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
    Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
    Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)


    I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.



    Or better yet, research the game because maybe, just MAYBE, you're not their target audience.
    Well then their target audience is going to be really small.

    Never hear when I take kids to the amusement parks, man I am so glad we are wasting our time in this line, it makes the experience so much more fun in the end.  Nope, I would get my kids the speed-pass, and they would have a blast riding all the rides over and over again.

    I think its a complete misconception to say because people liked amusement parks when they were a young kid, the reason was because of long lines and time wasters.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.

    There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.

    Things like:
    Corpse runs
    Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
    Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
    Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)


    I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.



    I would partially advocate some of those options, the running around and eating and drinking. I think a MMO should be worth looking at and experiencing, you should should want to run or ride around. I would only want to see eating and drinking used to encourage social activity, like needing to have some food and drink in an inn to get over "combat fatigue".

    We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.

     25 Agrees

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • BrainyBrainy Member UncommonPosts: 345
    Scot said:
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.

    There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.

    Things like:
    Corpse runs
    Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
    Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
    Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)


    I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.



    I would partially advocate some of those options, the running around and eating and drinking. I think a MMO should be worth looking at and experiencing, you should should want to run or ride around. I would only want to see eating and drinking used to encourage social activity, like needing to have some food and drink in an inn to get over "combat fatigue".

    We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.
    I am not against food or drink in an mmo, especially for buffs or debuffs.  I have a problem when it moves into tedious. When a significant portion of your playtime is revolving around these time wasting mechanics.  When you are spending your entire game time either managing inventory space, or running to your next dungeon, or balancing your nutritional state, or even running back to your corpse to just die again and start the process all over.   Where is the fun?

    Yes food is in survival games now, but the industries are merging.  Survival games will be MMO's soon, just natural progression.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.

    There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.

    Things like:
    Corpse runs
    Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
    Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
    Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)


    I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.



    I would partially advocate some of those options, the running around and eating and drinking. I think a MMO should be worth looking at and experiencing, you should should want to run or ride around. I would only want to see eating and drinking used to encourage social activity, like needing to have some food and drink in an inn to get over "combat fatigue".

    We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.
    I am not against food or drink in an mmo, especially for buffs or debuffs.  I have a problem when it moves into tedious. When a significant portion of your playtime is revolving around these time wasting mechanics.  When you are spending your entire game time either managing inventory space, or running to your next dungeon, or balancing your nutritional state, or even running back to your corpse to just die again and start the process all over.   Where is the fun?

    Yes food is in survival games now, but the industries are merging.  Survival games will be MMO's soon, just natural progression.
    I don't fully agree with you here, but only in extent of the merging. We have seen a lot of gameplay, themes, background and financial models ported from one MMO genre to another. Overwhelmingly it has been more modern takes like Survival and Action MMOs informing the old guard. But yes, something like eating drinking and avoiding exposure is some of the most tedious gameplay I have played. There have been a couple of exceptions in solo games where it was very marginal that I did not mind, there it did not become the gist of the gameplay.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ArgostArgost Member UncommonPosts: 27
         I hope this game follows "The Vision" as closely as it can and still succeed in today's gaming world. I absolutely loved Brad's other games and hated what SOE did to them (and don't get me started on DBG/whatever the EQ studio is called now). Now that Brad has passed on I am glad to see this game still moving forward and not in the same state as Chronicles of Elyria... I find the corpse runs for money/inventory to be acceptable, but I have never been a fan of equipment durability. Even that is acceptable compared to the old corpse runs. I had time for that when I was in my twenties... These days I don't know if Ill have time for the game before retirement so I'm in no hurry to see it released.

         Oh, here's a link to my all time favorite EQ related song/video. I remember the old style corpse runs well to this day, and am thankful they no longer exist as brutally as they once were.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW_yVGPd0ns
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,834
    edited August 2
    I do understand why corpse retrieval is such a controversial topic and one many say is tedious and completely unnecessary in this day and age for a game. No one likes it. I certainly never did especially when I was dead broke having just bought some jewellery and unable to afford a necro summoning my corpse. I spent hours outside of Old Sebilis waiting to follow a group in or somehow get some help to get my corpse back. It took me something like 10 hours to finally get it and I swear to this day the memory of the moment I looted my corpse and got all my stuff back and I cracked such a huge smile and thanked the group profusely that I recall every one of them.

    That is what a death penalty like this does. It creates unbreakable bonds with others. People who help you and who you in turn come to aid when they need you. That is something you cannot make out of thin air and is cultivated in an atmosphere of fear and loss and yes it is a horrible mechanic. No one likes it but we tolerate it and advocate the mechanic because you can see how the community around you behaves.

    We are not masochists and advocate a harder death penalty to satiate our imagined forays into that fetish but it is a genuine community builder.

    Guilds who come to help their guild mates get their bodies out of Planes or deep dungeons mean something when you open your mouth and ask for help in guild chat and the guild jumps into action and make an adventure out of it. All of this builds a community and one that is lasting. You cannot play selfishly in this type of game because it comes back and bites you when you least expect it.

    Players know the consequences of their actions and are wary and it isn't true that wariness translates into fear of exploration because I was back in Old Sebilis the very next day. Many players continue playing and that dungeon is scary but you still go in. You remember the dungeon because of what it did to you and the loot is all the more sweeter for it.

    When you have a light penalty none of it matters. There is no gravitas. You argue but it is a game not torture but what I hope is to live in the world the game creates and for that there has to be fear and consequences. There has to be player responsibility and most of all a group of players should be willing to help one another and it is to create unforgettable memories. 

    This is what a PvE game is about. I know PvPers say there is nothing exciting about PvE experiences. This is what makes memories and this is what working together means. I don't relish losing my corpse or the number of hours it will take to get it back (you have to be a lunatic to enjoy that) I do however enjoy meeting the people who help me and the new friends I make.
    KyleranSensai

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,816
    I remember the first time I played a game with very little death penalty.  I quickly lost all fear of dying and without the fear of dying I also lost any feeling of having an adventure and pretty soon I got bored with the game and quit.

    A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game.  It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them.  It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.

    I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying.  If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame.  I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.
    ChildoftheShadowsKyleranSensaiRhoklaw
  • BrainyBrainy Member UncommonPosts: 345
    Isn't that sort of similar to Stockholm syndrome, where some people are abused and start to develop positive feelings to the abuser? I suppose some people will develop close bonds during tragedy, I don't know why someone would want to be put into constant tragic situations just to feel positive reinforcement.

    I would rather get positive feelings from accomplishment.
    kitaradKyleranbcbullySensai
  • BrainyBrainy Member UncommonPosts: 345
    edited August 2
    I remember the first time I played a game with very little death penalty.  I quickly lost all fear of dying and without the fear of dying I also lost any feeling of having an adventure and pretty soon I got bored with the game and quit.

    A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game.  It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them.  It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.

    I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying.  If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame.  I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.

    So why is perma-death so crazy to you then?  By your logic, perma-death should give a higher degree of loss so therefore better memories and fun?
  • MorbeousMorbeous Member UncommonPosts: 48


    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.



    In my eyes it makes the game more meaningful. Nothing like the old days in Ultima Online when you spot a red and think shit I could lose all my gear here so you either risk fighting or you find another way around.
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