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Pantheon - What You Need to Know from July 30ths State of the Game

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 5,023

imagePantheon - What You Need to Know from July 30ths State of the Game

On July 30th, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen developer Visionary Realms put together a comprehensive State of the Game as they head into Pre-Alpha 5. The hour-long session covered a ton of topics, from when the game will be streamable, to the status of where particular game features are in their development cycle. If you haven't had the opportunity to partake in the State of the Game, fear not, as we have distilled and summarized a good portion of it for your reading pleasure.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Panzerbeorne39Panzerbeorne39 Member UncommonPosts: 216
    edited August 1
    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
    GreatnessZenislavMcSleazTokkenCanyen109ScotZenJellyTacticalZombehMrMelGibsonMorbeousand 4 others.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165


    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.



    Yet there's an equally vocal crowd saying the proposed death penalty is sissy shit since there's no de-leveling or electric shock delivered through your keyboard.

    :D
    blueturtle13achesomaYashaXCanyen109ScotZenJellyTacticalZombehMrMelGibsonmatsuzinGladDog

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • remsleepremsleep Member RarePosts: 509
    edited August 1
    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.

    That's pretty meaningful to me - as that is time lost, and that matters to me.

    It's not completely meaningless (zero loss of anything)

    And its not too punishing (complete gear loss, character loss)

    Its a happy middle ground- punishing enough to be undesirable but not too punishing to make people quit the game.
    BruceYeebgzgamerValdheimBabuinixXodicdenitersschruppKyleranZenJellydrivendawnand 5 others.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,044
    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
    Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.
    BruceYeeachesomabgzgamerValdheimXodicsschruppZenJellytzervothighhighsTimukasand 2 others.

  • achesomaachesoma Member RarePosts: 1,228
    Rhoklaw said:
    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
    Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.

    It also adds value to decision making. Planning ahead and decision making used to be hallmarks of RPGs which seem to have been lost.

    I posted this in another thread but here is Brad's view on death penalties in MMOs. Seems like they're aiming for his vision.


    bgzgamerValdheimZenJellyRhoklawtzervothighhighs
    Image result for pantheon mmo banners
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 504


    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.



    Oh i know! Death should be used as an instant teleport back to where your bound for easy access! /sarcasm
    Rhoklaw
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 2,224
    Pre-alpha. lol

    Then comes alpha, post alpha, pre-beta, closed beta, open beta, early release, almost-release, release-is-around-the corner, shut down.
    YashaXMendelXodicTokkenKyleranZenJellyRhoklawtzervomoguy1


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,662
    Just like i never cared about phases 20..30 years ago,i feel the same way now.How often do we see a game release and it is like disaster,so wtf was all the testing about?

    I have ideas that i need to see in a game,being unique is one or doing something better or more exciting/fun than the other games are doing the same ideas.

    Part of the problem recreating top notch games is that MOST of the simple,lower cost ideas have already been flushed out so now gaming in all genres is same old new skin.

    There is only one route left and it is not the TESTING route,it is to put more effort into your game design.I could lay out what we should be seeing in mmorpg's but i am not making the games i am just buying them and playing them.
    Devs know what would make a great mmorpg,they simply will not deliver THAT game,either because they can't afford to or don't have the know how,employees,skills to pull it off.

    One area we SHOULD be seeing is one i noticed looking at the Avengers footage and that is world interaction.We can do much better than simple one off target items to interact with,we should see the ENTIRE world as being interactive.

    Know what needs testing?ECO systems,where are they,why do NONE of the mmorpg's have ECO systems?What do i care if you have 2 classes near finished and want to see if their abilities work,i EXPECT them to work on release day,do whatever you need to do to make it work,no need to tell me.
    OG_ZorvanMallyx

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ZorlofeZorlofe Member UncommonPosts: 214
    I love everything they are doing but I do wish it would come faster and I know the argument countering my opinion. I get it but now more than ever we all need a legit good MMORPG. Amiright?
    Tokken
  • MaximusNovaMaximusNova Member UncommonPosts: 25


    XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.



    If you want a WOW clone then go play a WOW clone, this was stated from the beginning that they are going the old school root.
    MorbeousMallyx
  • MaximusNovaMaximusNova Member UncommonPosts: 25
    Making death meaningful will make you think twice before running into the wild, and thats what make an MMO last long.
    Morbeous
  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,093
    Making death meaningful will make you think twice before running into the wild, and thats what make an MMO last long.

    I like where they are right now. I didn't like anything as harsh as the naked corpse run and a chance to lose all your gear because that can take you out of gameplay for days or weeks depending on the game, but I also don't like light penalties that allow you to zerg through content without thinking. I think Pantheon is right at the sweet spot.
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • Allwynd_01Allwynd_01 Member UncommonPosts: 132


    Making death meaningful will make you think twice before running into the wild, and thats what make an MMO last long.



    It will also make them make the game F2P or B2P before shutting it down as no more than 500 people will be bothering to play such a game, let alone buy the game and they pay a monthly subscription for such a painful experience.

    Project 1999 is mostly alive because of nostalgia, it's not like new people who never played the game back in the day are starting to play every day. Same goes for Star Wars Galaxies private servers, at least for the Pre-CU Pre-NGE versions - the only ones playing it are all old players, most of the new players are playing the Post-CU Post-NGE SWG Legends version and it's the server with the largest population.

    I never played SWG back in the day and the only reason I could get into SWG Legends was because it played like WoW and wasn't unforgivable. I could explore the new mechanics and learn the new things without being punished for not having 800+ hours of experience from the get-go.

    There is a fine line between challenge and forced, artificial inconveniences like the ones EverQuest 1, Old School RuneScape and Pantheon have. Project 1999 doesn't even have 1000 people playing it and that's because it's free. Now imagine Pantheon, being B2P and subscription-based - the population will not surpass 300 players, 500 if we're being optimistic and that's on launch, after that it will decline and eventually shut down.
    blueturtle13MendelLackingMMOthighhighsRhoklawtzervostrawhat0981drivendawnTimukasMallyx
  • goozmaniagoozmania Member UncommonPosts: 319
    Death has to be meaningful if they want Rez classes to be meaningful. EXP loss is irrelevant if we don't know how fast EXP is gained in the game, though.

    Still not enough information on the actual game is being released, so my expected release date of 2125 is not being moved.
    thighhighs
  • Alamor0Alamor0 Member UncommonPosts: 175
    edited August 1
    I don't often comment but this looks fun to jump in on.

    1. Subscription model.
    The best subscripion model is B2P plus subscription. This is proven clearly by the biggest MMO ever. The reason why F2P is often used is because the games aren't good enough. GOOD ENOUGH is only and will ONLY EVER be based on what's good to the TARGET MARKET. So, is the MMO actually good enough for the target market? Well then B2P+Sub is the BEST pricing model. People will pay because it's such a good game for them, people it's not for will stay away, and the devs will make enough money to make the game even better and bring in more of their audience while keeping their old players and not shutting down.
    And comparing the population of a F2P private server of an old game to the potential of Pantheon is bordering on absolute insanity.

    2. Death penalty.
    This is simple. Since they're not cash-grabbing devs making a subpar or generic MMO with a F2P model, they want to make sure that the game is good enough for their target audience, like I mentioned above. To not have a good death penalty would make the game worse for their target audience. This is clearly true since they are trying to make a next-gen MMO that is still challenging and hasn't lost touch with what made MMOs so fun and deep. People who want that, want a good death penalty. For example, consequence for failure is my favorite thing in MMOs, but I still want something that's not full on perma-death/full-loot.

    Lastly, it seems people always forget about target audiences. To paraphrase my favorite author, Brandon Sanderson, you make something for people that want that thing, not for those that don't. And the people that want it, want it because of their current circumstances, not because it's better than something else or because it's the 'best MMO'. But because maybe they want to try something new, or they miss something old, etc. Whatever brings you in, if you're met with good execution and something that lives up to the potential of what you wanted, then it's amazing. There is no definitive best and if something turns you off of this game, then it's NOT FOR YOU NOW. But maybe it will be someday.

    So, what I'm trying to say is that anyone who complains about a tough but fair death penalty is a wimpy casual that doesn't even deserve to know about Pantheon. Grow up first and then come back! Love ya!

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,307
    Pre-Alpha 5 news

    1. Pre-Alpha 5 date will be announced next week.
    2. 2 classes will be available, Dire Load and Shaman
    3. Climbing will be available and more polished and endurance system added to climbing
    4. New ability system added and rdy to be tested and mastery system
    5. Perception system added for testing
    6. Streaming of the game may come late in Pre-Alpha 5 as they work things out, by permission
    7. More story added
    8. Some dungeons have been updated
    9. Duration of play will be longer then past Alphas but set amount of time is not decided yet
    10. Fog, water effects and lighting has been reworked, still working progress (showed some screens raw)

    Things they are working on now

    1. Adding skill sets to NPC, skill timing, functionality and skill co-oping.
    2. Player Characters Animations, this is continus
    3. Raid Bosses and progression that comes with that, environment system playing into that, make sure people are afraid and having fun
    4. Adding more NPC's, flushing out the world as the world is large.

    Other facts mentioned

    1. Questing and Story is non-linear - open world zone design
    2. New Website coming soon. Forums will not be updated yet but coming
    3. Quest Sharing, some quests yes, if it has pre-requisites no, unless they are met.
    4. Silent Plains zone, will be going in depth on that sometime
    5. Racial Actives: They want to revel it when its fully flushed out. Working progress. They are coming
    6. Crafters will be able to repair damage gear. How will be discussed later. Will be really cool system not just repair kits.

    Death Mechanics

    1. What was stated earlier stands
    2. They want the game to feel hard, death penalty is part of that
    3. No naked corpse run because they are making a different game, corpse dragging by a rogue will be much harder with their stealth system. Balance is needed
    4. Some classes can bind anywhere, other classes will have location they can bind to, more info coming on that.
    5. Exp loss will be a % of what current level you are working on, not total exp gained
    6. Fighting back to your corpse is what they want as part of the game play
    7. This was set this way because of the game they designed. It fits into the system they have in play and building
    8. De-leveling may or may not be a thing, said they leaving that for us to figure out when we play

    Current Patch Notes worth mentioning

    1. Die Lord and Shaman skills and mastery all updated
    2. Chat window options
    3. Updated ability bar and inventory UI, mostly "Quality of Life" things we would expect
    4. New 2 Hand animations added.
    5. Casting animations
    6. Updated character creator
    7. Audio systems updated
    Strizzy12YashaXKylerantzervodrivendawn
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,823


    Making death meaningful will make you think twice before running into the wild, and thats what make an MMO last long.



    It will also make them make the game F2P or B2P before shutting it down as no more than 500 people will be bothering to play such a game, let alone buy the game and they pay a monthly subscription for such a painful experience.

    Project 1999 is mostly alive because of nostalgia, it's not like new people who never played the game back in the day are starting to play every day. Same goes for Star Wars Galaxies private servers, at least for the Pre-CU Pre-NGE versions - the only ones playing it are all old players, most of the new players are playing the Post-CU Post-NGE SWG Legends version and it's the server with the largest population.

    I never played SWG back in the day and the only reason I could get into SWG Legends was because it played like WoW and wasn't unforgivable. I could explore the new mechanics and learn the new things without being punished for not having 800+ hours of experience from the get-go.

    There is a fine line between challenge and forced, artificial inconveniences like the ones EverQuest 1, Old School RuneScape and Pantheon have. Project 1999 doesn't even have 1000 people playing it and that's because it's free. Now imagine Pantheon, being B2P and subscription-based - the population will not surpass 300 players, 500 if we're being optimistic and that's on launch, after that it will decline and eventually shut down.

    That is exactly the challenge that Pantheon faces, how will it do with current players who don't have a 20 year love affair with EQ1?  Pantheon will easily capture the die-hard EQ1 player, but VR's success, and perhaps the success of the genre, depends on attracting more than that core group.

    Whether we like it or not, the initial EQ1 population is getting smaller and smaller as 1999 gets further in the rear-view.  Correspondingly, financial success is less dependent on older players than on the newer players.  What is Pantheon doing that is going to attract those players beyond their core audience?  Players' tastes have changed, what they like now isn't the same as what they liked yesterday.

    Nostalgia isn't a solid foundation for financial success, nor the cornerstone of the future of the genre.



    tzervo

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,112
    The remark about it being difficult to do a naked corpse retrieval even a naked group corpse retrieval put some of the bite I think is necessary for communities to form and people to actually bother to interact with others properly.

    A lot of civility and essential community building atmosphere is caused by fear and the need for other people to help you. If you need other people's help the motivation to be dick will diminish exponentially. I am a firm believer that humans behave always selfishly and they are motivated by that one creed and making corpse retrieval in a dungeon something you need help with builds a better character online. One that attempts to engage and observe the social requirements to succeed.
    kitaradtzervomoguy1
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,342
    cheyane said:
    The remark about it being difficult to do a naked corpse retrieval even a naked group corpse retrieval put some of the bite I think is necessary for communities to form and people to actually bother to interact with others properly.

    A lot of civility and essential community building atmosphere is caused by fear and the need for other people to help you. If you need other people's help the motivation to be dick will diminish exponentially. I am a firm believer that humans behave always selfishly and they are motivated by that one creed and making corpse retrieval in a dungeon something you need help with builds a better character online. One that attempts to engage and observe the social requirements to succeed.
    I think it'll just need that
     a) your whole group must stay together to get back after wipe, or
     b) you need to shell out some cash to others for the rescue

    Neither of which really builds a community. However knowing today's players it will build out-of-game addon for buying and selling escorts to corpses unless Pantheon's devs make good enough in-game tool for that.
    tzervo
     
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,112
    Vrika said:
    cheyane said:
    The remark about it being difficult to do a naked corpse retrieval even a naked group corpse retrieval put some of the bite I think is necessary for communities to form and people to actually bother to interact with others properly.

    A lot of civility and essential community building atmosphere is caused by fear and the need for other people to help you. If you need other people's help the motivation to be dick will diminish exponentially. I am a firm believer that humans behave always selfishly and they are motivated by that one creed and making corpse retrieval in a dungeon something you need help with builds a better character online. One that attempts to engage and observe the social requirements to succeed.
    I think it'll just need that
     a) your whole group must stay together to get back after wipe, or
     b) you need to shell out some cash to others for the rescue

    Neither of which really builds a community. However knowing today's players it will build out-of-game addon for buying and selling escorts to corpses unless Pantheon's devs make good enough in-game tool for that.
    Of course that will happen just as Tanks in WoW asking for upfront payment and dibs on certain loot before agreeing to tank or people paying for boosts in WoW. Are a significant number of players doing that in Classic WoW and if it is that is merely a reflection of what players are like in todays' MMORPGs.

    Just a further sad footnote to how things have changed since Everquest and not for the better.
    Mallyx
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,120
    Perfect example of what a good MMORPG article can look like!
    AmathetzervoMallyx

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  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,823
    Perfect example of what a good MMORPG article can look like!

    Anything that summarizes an hour of talking heads into talking points.



    Slapshot1188KyleranOG_Zorvan

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 504

    Mendel said:



    Perfect example of what a good MMORPG article can look like!




    Anything that summarizes an hour of talking heads into talking points.






    No kidding! Love Pantheon BUT god the streams are so boring! They need to learn marketing and sales lol. Heck even public speaking could help this team, way to dry
  • McSleazMcSleaz Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Another game setting itself up for failure by listening to the Vocal Minority that thinks it's a majority.

    Wildstar proved there is no market for "Hardcore", This game will die the same death.
    LackingMMOcheyaneKyleranthighhighsTimukasMallyx
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,177
    The stream has a lot of good information. I appreciate that. But it would help consumption of that information if the presentation was not so dry and prolix.
    achesomaKyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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