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Marvel's Avengers Looks...Good?

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  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,196
    Utinni said:

    Scot said:



    Nanfoodle said:




    MikeB said:





    Nanfoodle said:









    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.






    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 









    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.









    Yup and as always comic retell the same story with retelling that have a new twist. Everything is constantly changing in comics, even their powers. Superman to start could not fly, just leap building in a single bound. We have Green Lantern now as a black guy who likes guys. Venom is now an anti hero. Lex Luthor was a red head monk and now can fight Superman toe to toe and is bald. Ms Marvel is not new to the Marvel Universe as they tell a new story. 





    Back in the day the changes were not made to convey political messages, today that's all these "new twists" seem to be used for.

    Indeed, what occurred in the past could be seen as power progression or in fact power inflation. So I don't think you are comparing like with like here.



    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages.
    In the 70's and 80's it was story with a side of politics...now it is politics with a side of story and lots of restarts of failing series.  Marvel and DC are failing due to lack of good stories.  You can get away with a lot if you have engaging characters and good stories.  You can throw a lot of political messages in.  

    Manga and indy comics are growing.  
    ScotTuor7
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,808
    Horusra said:
    Utinni said:

    Scot said:



    Nanfoodle said:




    MikeB said:





    Nanfoodle said:









    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.






    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 









    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.









    Yup and as always comic retell the same story with retelling that have a new twist. Everything is constantly changing in comics, even their powers. Superman to start could not fly, just leap building in a single bound. We have Green Lantern now as a black guy who likes guys. Venom is now an anti hero. Lex Luthor was a red head monk and now can fight Superman toe to toe and is bald. Ms Marvel is not new to the Marvel Universe as they tell a new story. 





    Back in the day the changes were not made to convey political messages, today that's all these "new twists" seem to be used for.

    Indeed, what occurred in the past could be seen as power progression or in fact power inflation. So I don't think you are comparing like with like here.



    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages.
    In the 70's and 80's it was story with a side of politics...now it is politics with a side of story and lots of restarts of failing series.  Marvel and DC are failing due to lack of good stories.  You can get away with a lot if you have engaging characters and good stories.  You can throw a lot of political messages in.  

    Manga and indy comics are growing.  
    I think what you mean is they use to be more subtle with their political and social commentary compared with todays touch. And I agree.


    Yet, Marvel and DC are in a better place now. I still disagree with the culture of making a writter undo all previous work someone made in certain past arch, but oh well, the grinding money machine needs to work in loops.
    Scot
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

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  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,194

    MikeB said:



    Nanfoodle said:






    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.




    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 






    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.






    Kamala first appeared almost 7 years ago (November 2013) so that does make "been reading comics of that character since I was a kid" a possibly valid statement.

    Feel old yet?

    If not, how about this; there are people who don't remember a world with the World Trade Center and are almost old enough to (legally) drink.
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,773
    I have been looking foward to this game since it was annouced but I was raised on Marvel Comics thanks to my dad and still collect to this day. Not to mention my love for the MCU as well. 

    Alverant said:

    MikeB said:



    Nanfoodle said:






    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.




    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 






    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.






    Kamala first appeared almost 7 years ago (November 2013) so that does make "been reading comics of that character since I was a kid" a possibly valid statement.

    Feel old yet?

    If not, how about this; there are people who don't remember a world with the World Trade Center and are almost old enough to (legally) drink.
    I feel old with your world trade center bit. Jeez I was 11 when that happend. 
    Currently playing: Outer Worlds (Xbox One X)

    Currently Reading: Skaven Slayer (Gotrek and Felix Book 2)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (3rd Draft)

    Currently Watching: Oz (Season 4), Soprano's (Season 1)


  • skeaserskeaser Member UncommonPosts: 4,087
    edited August 2

    Scot said:


    Utinni said:



    Scot said:





    Nanfoodle said:






    MikeB said:







    Nanfoodle said:












    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.








    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 












    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.













    Yup and as always comic retell the same story with retelling that have a new twist. Everything is constantly changing in comics, even their powers. Superman to start could not fly, just leap building in a single bound. We have Green Lantern now as a black guy who likes guys. Venom is now an anti hero. Lex Luthor was a red head monk and now can fight Superman toe to toe and is bald. Ms Marvel is not new to the Marvel Universe as they tell a new story. 







    Back in the day the changes were not made to convey political messages, today that's all these "new twists" seem to be used for.

    Indeed, what occurred in the past could be seen as power progression or in fact power inflation. So I don't think you are comparing like with like here.






    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages.


    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.



    The X-Men are a parallel to the civil rights movement, Marvel published a series call "The 'Nam" showing the Vietnam war from soldier perspectives, Iron Man had a lot of Cold War influence, etc. Even back in the great depression Superman was fighting corrupt landlords. Comics have always reflected current events. Hell, they killed Captain America in the "Civil War" story line when the US Government started to lose popularity.

    Political messages aside, this game looks amazing and I've got it pre-ordered. I liked what Anthem could have been and might be and this looks like it combines that with Marvel. I'm sold.
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    edited August 2
    skeaser said:

    Scot said:


    Utinni said:



    Scot said:





    Nanfoodle said:






    MikeB said:







    Nanfoodle said:












    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.








    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 












    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.













    Yup and as always comic retell the same story with retelling that have a new twist. Everything is constantly changing in comics, even their powers. Superman to start could not fly, just leap building in a single bound. We have Green Lantern now as a black guy who likes guys. Venom is now an anti hero. Lex Luthor was a red head monk and now can fight Superman toe to toe and is bald. Ms Marvel is not new to the Marvel Universe as they tell a new story. 







    Back in the day the changes were not made to convey political messages, today that's all these "new twists" seem to be used for.

    Indeed, what occurred in the past could be seen as power progression or in fact power inflation. So I don't think you are comparing like with like here.






    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages.


    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.



    The X-Men are a parallel to the civil rights movement, Marvel published a series call "The 'Nam" showing the Vietnam war from soldier perspectives, Iron Man had a lot of Cold War influence, etc. Even back in the great depression Superman was fighting corrupt landlords. Comics have always reflected current events. Hell, they killed Captain America in the "Civil War" story line when the US Government started to lose popularity.

    Political messages aside, this game looks amazing and I've got it pre-ordered. I liked what Anthem could have been and might be and this looks like it combines that with Marvel. I'm sold.
    I am not saying comics have never been political, just like any other medium they have been. But the baulk of their output was not like The Nam. That's a bit like saying "I found a political novel called The Nam, so all novels are political." Also I think you are reading too much into the idea the Xmen was all about civil rights, indeed I have seen people saying Marvel was all about civil rights. I think there is some wishful thinking here.

    When you look at what the people who made the X-Men comics have said I see historical reconstructionism. Please point this out if you can provide evidence, but up to the eighties (maybe even the nineties?) you don't get the likes of Stan Lee mentioning this. Then when it becomes fashionable to make such statements that's what the X-men was all about. When you compare the films to the comics, there is far more humans against a minority than comics ever did. Indeed it features in every X-Men film.

    I should point out I am quite a fan of Stan Lee, but he would not be the first author or artist to retcon his work to prevailing attitudes. 
    Mendel

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  • JockobyteJockobyte Newbie CommonPosts: 3
    edited August 3
    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages. 

    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.

    Mate, I started reading Marvel comics back in the late 70s - The Cold War was quite the thing back then, then run through X-men mutants & Inhumans' storylines before, yes, Cap America: Civil War and the freedoms vs law debate, Marvel was the universe with the challenging stories in the sub-text, if you wanted just Good v Bad, there was always DC...
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    Jockobyte said:
    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages. 

    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.

    Mate, I started reading Marvel comics back in the late 70s - The Cold War was quite the thing back then, then run through X-men mutants & Inhumans' storylines before, yes, Cap America: Civil War and the freedoms vs law debate, Marvel was the universe with the challenging stories in the sub-text, if you wanted just Good v Bad, there was always DC...
    Welcome to the forums! :)
    maskedweasel

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • JockobyteJockobyte Newbie CommonPosts: 3
    Welcome to the forums! :)
    "I’m just happy to be here. I just want to give it my best shot, and the good Lord willing, things will work out.” :blush:
    Tuor7
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,722
    edited August 3
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Nanfoodle
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,243
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,722
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    Nanfoodle
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,808
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    I think it has more to do with IP rights.

    Cause when you buy certain licenses you get it for a specific media.

    You can find charts online about who owns what where... spoiler, it is a mess.



    For example, we can't have a solo Hulk film cause the rights to a solo Hulk film is owned by some old fella who don't want anyone doing anything with it. But, Hulk can appear as a second character and guests as long his name is not on the title. It is weird like that.


    The same goes for many 'races' in Marvel universe which led to the swap between the kree and the skrull on the cinematic universe due Guardians of the Galaxy being release when they didn't have the rights.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; EvE Online

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,722
    Nyctelios said:
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    I think it has more to do with IP rights.

    Cause when you buy certain licenses you get it for a specific media.

    You can find charts online about who owns what where... spoiler, it is a mess.



    For example, we can't have a solo Hulk film cause the rights to a solo Hulk film is owned by some old fella who don't want anyone doing anything with it. But, Hulk can appear as a second character and guests as long his name is not on the title. It is weird like that.


    The same goes for many 'races' in Marvel universe which led to the swap between the kree and the skrull on the cinematic universe due Guardians of the Galaxy being release when they didn't have the rights.
    Maybe. I don't know. I'm pretty sure Sony's exclusive rights to Spiderman are solely in the realm of film.

    He just appeared in MUA3, a Nintendo exclusive game. If Sony had the capability of hitting Nintendo's game with a sledgehammer, you bet your ass they would. Unless Nintendo paid them a sum of money that would be ridiculous for a game that is clearly as rushed and middling as MUA3.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    edited August 4
    My only real concerns with the game are how much the solo will play second fiddle to co-op and what the monetarization will look like.

     25 Agrees

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,614
    Scot said:
    My only real concerns with the game are how much the solo will play second fiddle to co-op and what the monetarization will look like.
    Well, according to what we know so far.. 

    AI companions can be used for everything except the raids, which have matchmaking. 

    Costumes are extra. Emotes. Nameplates. All extra. No idea what else will be in the shop right now, but I don't doubt there's gotta be something. 
    Scot



  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,808
    Aeander said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    I think it has more to do with IP rights.

    Cause when you buy certain licenses you get it for a specific media.

    You can find charts online about who owns what where... spoiler, it is a mess.



    For example, we can't have a solo Hulk film cause the rights to a solo Hulk film is owned by some old fella who don't want anyone doing anything with it. But, Hulk can appear as a second character and guests as long his name is not on the title. It is weird like that.


    The same goes for many 'races' in Marvel universe which led to the swap between the kree and the skrull on the cinematic universe due Guardians of the Galaxy being release when they didn't have the rights.
    Maybe. I don't know. I'm pretty sure Sony's exclusive rights to Spiderman are solely in the realm of film.

    He just appeared in MUA3, a Nintendo exclusive game. If Sony had the capability of hitting Nintendo's game with a sledgehammer, you bet your ass they would. Unless Nintendo paid them a sum of money that would be ridiculous for a game that is clearly as rushed and middling as MUA3.
    Thats the thing, MUA devs can hold rights to use him as guess character and that's why he is not here.

    It is really messy, believe me.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; EvE Online

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,808
    Nyctelios said:
    Aeander said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    I think it has more to do with IP rights.

    Cause when you buy certain licenses you get it for a specific media.

    You can find charts online about who owns what where... spoiler, it is a mess.



    For example, we can't have a solo Hulk film cause the rights to a solo Hulk film is owned by some old fella who don't want anyone doing anything with it. But, Hulk can appear as a second character and guests as long his name is not on the title. It is weird like that.


    The same goes for many 'races' in Marvel universe which led to the swap between the kree and the skrull on the cinematic universe due Guardians of the Galaxy being release when they didn't have the rights.
    Maybe. I don't know. I'm pretty sure Sony's exclusive rights to Spiderman are solely in the realm of film.

    He just appeared in MUA3, a Nintendo exclusive game. If Sony had the capability of hitting Nintendo's game with a sledgehammer, you bet your ass they would. Unless Nintendo paid them a sum of money that would be ridiculous for a game that is clearly as rushed and middling as MUA3.
    Thats the thing, MUA devs can hold rights to use him as guess character and that's why he is not here.

    It is really messy, believe me.

    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; EvE Online

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,808
    There it is
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; EvE Online

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    edited August 5
    As for Spidey only being on the PS, come on we need an Emma Frost exclusive on the PC and I will just about be consolable. ;)

    P.S I know she is not in the Avengers.

     25 Agrees

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  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,808
    Scot said:
    As for Spidey only being on the PS, come on we need an Emma Frost exclusive on the PC and I will just about be consolable. ;)

    P.S I know she is not in the Avengers.
    They could have done one exclusive character for each port just like Soul Calibur did back in the day.

    PS would get a Tekken character, Xbox got Darth Vader and Gamecube got Link. They did it again in a later title if I'm not mistaken.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; EvE Online

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,722
    Nyctelios said:
    Scot said:
    As for Spidey only being on the PS, come on we need an Emma Frost exclusive on the PC and I will just about be consolable. ;)

    P.S I know she is not in the Avengers.
    They could have done one exclusive character for each port just like Soul Calibur did back in the day.

    PS would get a Tekken character, Xbox got Darth Vader and Gamecube got Link. They did it again in a later title if I'm not mistaken.
    That really isn't preferable though.

    Because then the problem goes from "other platform players are second class citizens" to "it's literally impossible to own the full game."
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