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Crowfall 5.125 TEST Patch Brings Bunch of Fixes to Campaign, Powers, More

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 5,023

imageCrowfall 5.125 TEST Patch Brings Bunch of Fixes to Campaign, Powers, More

A new test patch for Crowfall sees a bunch of incoming fixes for campaign, UI, powers, and more.

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  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 546
    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.

    Disappointing so far.
    DaemonweaverYashaXvelimiriussakinol

    MurderHerd

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    Again... it's NOT A FULL WIPE.

    Your "Crow" keeps all the passive training. What is wiped are the vessels you inhabit and the items.
    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087


    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.



    Disappointing so far.



    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.
    tzervovelimiriussakinol

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 546






    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.





    Disappointing so far.






    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.




    From the forums; no one likes the game except the die-hard fanboys. If this game launches soon it is sure to die.
    DaemonweaverUngoodvelimiriussakinol

    MurderHerd

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,243
    If there is a free trial or if I can sub for a month to try it. I will. DAoC is still my fave PvP MMO. I dont hold allot of hopes for this game, as I dont trust the developers. They kind of lost me on the journey. So I will need proof before I fully invest in this title.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087






    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.





    Disappointing so far.






    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.




    From the forums; no one likes the game except the die-hard fanboys. If this game launches soon it is sure to die.
    That's different than saying it's far from launch.   It will sink or swim on it's merits, but it is actually close to launch.
     
    tzervo

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,722
    I think there are some merits to the game design on offer here. Pick your own rules PvP is pretty appealing.

    I wouldn't call Crowfall's pitch as appealing as Ashes of Creation's or even Camelot Unchained's, but it's also not a subscription game. There's potential market room for it, and it's not like we're being flooded with MMOs anymore.
    tzervo
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    Nanfoodle said:
    If there is a free trial or if I can sub for a month to try it. I will. DAoC is still my fave PvP MMO. I dont hold allot of hopes for this game, as I dont trust the developers. They kind of lost me on the journey. So I will need proof before I fully invest in this title.
    DAoC is still my all-time favorite as well.  Currently playing Return of Reckoning and it's fun but not DAoC...

    Crowfall is closer to Shadowbane than it is to DAoC although the 3 and 12 faction campaigns might influence that somewhat there are no set realms with unique races.  All sides can be all races/classes... at least so far.  Might be some cool server specific rules they can implement to have race restrictions for the factions.  I actually like that idea!

    And the Beta will be a free/open trial.  If you have not signed up then I suggest doing so as it will get you in for free.

     
    Nanfoodle

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,113






    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.





    Disappointing so far.






    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.




    From the forums; no one likes the game except the die-hard fanboys. If this game launches soon it is sure to die.
    The main problem with Crowfall like Camelot Unchained, is that they are living in the past where the massive imbalances of DAOC were acceptable, Realm vs Realm and PvP games have evolved quite a bit since then, and less and less people are content with crappy class balance.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,135
    Ungood said:






    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.





    Disappointing so far.






    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.




    From the forums; no one likes the game except the die-hard fanboys. If this game launches soon it is sure to die.
    The main problem with Crowfall like Camelot Unchained, is that they are living in the past where the massive imbalances of DAOC were acceptable, Realm vs Realm and PvP games have evolved quite a bit since then, and less and less people are content with crappy class balance.
    Well sure, makes sense, more and more gamers are big sissies, can't play unless everything is "fair and balanced."


    ;)
    Ungoodvelimirius

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,113
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:






    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.





    Disappointing so far.






    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.




    From the forums; no one likes the game except the die-hard fanboys. If this game launches soon it is sure to die.
    The main problem with Crowfall like Camelot Unchained, is that they are living in the past where the massive imbalances of DAOC were acceptable, Realm vs Realm and PvP games have evolved quite a bit since then, and less and less people are content with crappy class balance.
    Well sure, makes sense, more and more gamers are big sissies, can't play unless everything is "fair and balanced."


    ;)
    Exactly.. I knew you would understand.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    edited July 31
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:






    The game is still so far from launch. Everything feels meaningless in the game, combat feels pretty bad and zerg-based. There is no content in the game because try and find pvp in an empty world, kill some boring pve mobs or harvest.





    Disappointing so far.






    You may not like the game but it is actually very close to launch. Expect Beta (open to public) soon.




    From the forums; no one likes the game except the die-hard fanboys. If this game launches soon it is sure to die.
    The main problem with Crowfall like Camelot Unchained, is that they are living in the past where the massive imbalances of DAOC were acceptable, Realm vs Realm and PvP games have evolved quite a bit since then, and less and less people are content with crappy class balance.
    Well sure, makes sense, more and more gamers are big sissies, can't play unless everything is "fair and balanced."


    ;)
    I'm glad to see games actually sticking to their niche and not worrying about pleasing everyone.  These games do not need massive populations to succeed although Crowfall may need more due to it's VIP sub just being optional.

    If 9/10 people prefer baby-like PvP or PvP as a sporting match with "fair" sides that still leaves 10% looking for more.

    Not every game has to cater to the Fortnite crowd.

    The question for CF is not whether it's PvP philosophy is going to turn people off... it's whether their game-loop is going to be robust enough to keep people happy.   I think their biggest feature (having multiple campaigns of fixed duration) is a two-edged sword.  On one hand it solves the Shadowbane problem of what to do when one alliance blobs the server.  On another hand it makes "victory" eternally ephemeral and I'm not sure how that will float.


    I think we will find out soon though.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,113
    Yah.. because, having my skills at playing mattering as opposed to picking some OP AF FOTM Build, is "baby like"

    Personally, I think if someone needs their toon to win the fight for them, they should stick to PvE where they belong.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    edited July 31
    Ungood said:
    Yah.. because, having my skills at playing mattering as opposed to picking some OP AF FOTM Build, is "baby like"

    Personally, I think if someone needs their toon to win the fight for them, they should stick to PvE where they belong.
    Yes, although Crowfall does have hard counters class wise and I applaud that.

    Played a bit yesterday after a three month break and was very surprised. Performance seems to have taken a hit but they are definitely close to release.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    YashaXUngoodKyleranBabuinix
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,113
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    Yah.. because, having my skills at playing mattering as opposed to picking some OP AF FOTM Build, is "baby like"

    Personally, I think if someone needs their toon to win the fight for them, they should stick to PvE where they belong.
    Yes, although Crowfall does have hard counters class wise and I applaud that.

    Played a bit yesterday after a three month break and was very surprised. Performance seems to have taken a hit but they are definitely close to release.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    As I saw it, their stealth counters were vastly lacking, and the balance was a joke. I suppose their idea is to have these vast campaign battles where the glaring imbalances would be less noticable.

    The problem with that, is the larger the battle the less noticeable individual skill is as well, and all to often size and a semblance of coordination will grant victory far more than all other factors. 

    However, the uncomfortable truth is that there is no shortage of games with that kind of crappy PvP systems, where levels, class, gear, and combos give massive advantages, so, there would be little to no motivation for someone to leave their current unbalanced game where they have accumulated in game wealth and hopefully a network of people that know and play with, just to put with the same problem of imbalance in another game.

    This is in fact why a game like Fortnight was as popular as it was, it was a PvP game in the purest sense of what a PvP game could be. No Teams, No Zergs, No Levels, No Classes, No Starting Advantages of any kind, you log in at the same time with everyone else, Starting on Equal Footing, and the last person standing wins.

    While Crowfall looked fun and I enjoyed playing it for the bit that I did, as far as PVP goes, it didn't offer anything that felt new or exciting, to put another way, there was nothing aventagegious of Crowfalls combat system over say a game like GW2.

    I am sure there will be a first day rush like most games, but the real question is about retaining the players, and sadly when I played Crowfall, nothing really stood out as "Ok, wow this is truly different" instead it felt more like "Oh this crap again"

    But YMMV.
    YashaX
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,552
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    Ungood
    ....
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    YashaX said:
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    The vessel question is a good one. Once a campaign ends your vessel ends. Several worlds might also have limits on what types of vessels you can use and having to start a new vessel every campaign means everybody starts on equal footing. Those are the main reasons.

    But, starting from scratch every time doesn’t give you a sense of progress so the Eternal Kingdoms and skill lines (general ones now since the class ones have been detached from it and are tied to your vessels level now) are where you gain permanent stuff in the shape of trophies, passives and materials. That way you are still going somewhere so to speak.

    Ungood said:

    As I saw it, their stealth counters were vastly lacking, and the balance was a joke. I suppose their idea is to have these vast campaign battles where the glaring imbalances would be less noticable.

    The problem with that, is the larger the battle the less noticeable individual skill is as well, and all to often size and a semblance of coordination will grant victory far more than all other factors. 

    However, the uncomfortable truth is that there is no shortage of games with that kind of crappy PvP systems, where levels, class, gear, and combos give massive advantages, so, there would be little to no motivation for someone to leave their current unbalanced game where they have accumulated in game wealth and hopefully a network of people that know and play with, just to put with the same problem of imbalance in another game.

    This is in fact why a game like Fortnight was as popular as it was, it was a PvP game in the purest sense of what a PvP game could be. No Teams, No Zergs, No Levels, No Classes, No Starting Advantages of any kind, you log in at the same time with everyone else, Starting on Equal Footing, and the last person standing wins.

    While Crowfall looked fun and I enjoyed playing it for the bit that I did, as far as PVP goes, it didn't offer anything that felt new or exciting, to put another way, there was nothing aventagegious of Crowfalls combat system over say a game like GW2.

    I am sure there will be a first day rush like most games, but the real question is about retaining the players, and sadly when I played Crowfall, nothing really stood out as "Ok, wow this is truly different" instead it felt more like "Oh this crap again"

    But YMMV.
    Crowfall is a 100% about the group versus group gameplay yes. Whether that works as intended tactics and performance wise can be debated but that is the way the game is set up.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    YashaX
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    lahnmir said:
    YashaX said:
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    The vessel question is a good one. Once a campaign ends your vessel ends. Several worlds might also have limits on what types of vessels you can use and having to start a new vessel every campaign means everybody starts on equal footing. Those are the main reasons.

    But, starting from scratch every time doesn’t give you a sense of progress so the Eternal Kingdoms and skill lines (general ones now since the class ones have been detached from it and are tied to your vessels level now) are where you gain permanent stuff in the shape of trophies, passives and materials. That way you are still going somewhere so to speak.


    Your vessels do not end when the campaign ends.   They live on.  How many items you can take to your Eternal Kingdom (or just your bank) depends on the campaign rules as well as whether you won or lost the campaign.  Some campaigns may require that you start a new vessel.

    The Vessels exist so that you can still have multiple characters that you level up the normal way (kill things, etc) but also have the offline account wide training that they really seem to want.

    Also, they will get locked to a campaign so if you wanted to play in one campaign on Monday but then a different one on Tuesday you could use a different vessel.

    lahnmirYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    lahnmir said:
    YashaX said:
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    The vessel question is a good one. Once a campaign ends your vessel ends. Several worlds might also have limits on what types of vessels you can use and having to start a new vessel every campaign means everybody starts on equal footing. Those are the main reasons.

    But, starting from scratch every time doesn’t give you a sense of progress so the Eternal Kingdoms and skill lines (general ones now since the class ones have been detached from it and are tied to your vessels level now) are where you gain permanent stuff in the shape of trophies, passives and materials. That way you are still going somewhere so to speak.


    Your vessels do not end when the campaign ends.   They live on.  How many items you can take to your Eternal Kingdom (or just your bank) depends on the campaign rules as well as whether you won or lost the campaign.  Some campaigns may require that you start a new vessel.

    The Vessels exist so that you can still have multiple characters that you level up the normal way (kill things, etc) but also have the offline account wide training that they really seem to want.

    Also, they will get locked to a campaign so if you wanted to play in one campaign on Monday but then a different one on Tuesday you could use a different vessel.

    Thanks for that, I was under the assumption that vessels would always end after a campaign, not that it was a separate campaign rule. I knew about the locked part.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    edited August 1
    lahnmir said:


    Ungood said:

    As I saw it, their stealth counters were vastly lacking, and the balance was a joke. I suppose their idea is to have these vast campaign battles where the glaring imbalances would be less noticable.

    The problem with that, is the larger the battle the less noticeable individual skill is as well, and all to often size and a semblance of coordination will grant victory far more than all other factors. 

    However, the uncomfortable truth is that there is no shortage of games with that kind of crappy PvP systems, where levels, class, gear, and combos give massive advantages, so, there would be little to no motivation for someone to leave their current unbalanced game where they have accumulated in game wealth and hopefully a network of people that know and play with, just to put with the same problem of imbalance in another game.

    This is in fact why a game like Fortnight was as popular as it was, it was a PvP game in the purest sense of what a PvP game could be. No Teams, No Zergs, No Levels, No Classes, No Starting Advantages of any kind, you log in at the same time with everyone else, Starting on Equal Footing, and the last person standing wins.

    While Crowfall looked fun and I enjoyed playing it for the bit that I did, as far as PVP goes, it didn't offer anything that felt new or exciting, to put another way, there was nothing aventagegious of Crowfalls combat system over say a game like GW2.

    I am sure there will be a first day rush like most games, but the real question is about retaining the players, and sadly when I played Crowfall, nothing really stood out as "Ok, wow this is truly different" instead it felt more like "Oh this crap again"

    But YMMV.
    Crowfall is a 100% about the group versus group gameplay yes. Whether that works as intended tactics and performance wise can be debated but that is the way the game is set up.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Exactly.  It's not for everyone. Some want baby-like PvP or a sporting event.  That is absolutely OK.   But this is not that kind of game.  It's not meant to be.  

    But I do not know if what they have put together will pass the test of launch.   A lot of their systems and concepts really need thousands of players.  There is no way of knowing "if it's fun" until then.  So I just poke my head in every so often to see whats changed and wait for the no-wipe announcement.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    edited August 1
    lahnmir said:
    lahnmir said:
    YashaX said:
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    The vessel question is a good one. Once a campaign ends your vessel ends. Several worlds might also have limits on what types of vessels you can use and having to start a new vessel every campaign means everybody starts on equal footing. Those are the main reasons.

    But, starting from scratch every time doesn’t give you a sense of progress so the Eternal Kingdoms and skill lines (general ones now since the class ones have been detached from it and are tied to your vessels level now) are where you gain permanent stuff in the shape of trophies, passives and materials. That way you are still going somewhere so to speak.


    Your vessels do not end when the campaign ends.   They live on.  How many items you can take to your Eternal Kingdom (or just your bank) depends on the campaign rules as well as whether you won or lost the campaign.  Some campaigns may require that you start a new vessel.

    The Vessels exist so that you can still have multiple characters that you level up the normal way (kill things, etc) but also have the offline account wide training that they really seem to want.

    Also, they will get locked to a campaign so if you wanted to play in one campaign on Monday but then a different one on Tuesday you could use a different vessel.

    Thanks for that, I was under the assumption that vessels would always end after a campaign, not that it was a separate campaign rule. I knew about the locked part.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    Another interesting concept (good? bad?  Who knows) is that you can build those vessels with Necromancy.   So you start out with a "white" vessel in your chosen race/class... but eventually you will want to have a necromancer build you a better vessel.  One that you have tailored and customized to have more Dexterity... or Strength or whatever.  Those vessels are colored just like drops... white/green/blue/purple/gold.

    Those vessels also take FAR more EXP to level than a white one.


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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    lahnmir said:
    lahnmir said:
    YashaX said:
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    The vessel question is a good one. Once a campaign ends your vessel ends. Several worlds might also have limits on what types of vessels you can use and having to start a new vessel every campaign means everybody starts on equal footing. Those are the main reasons.

    But, starting from scratch every time doesn’t give you a sense of progress so the Eternal Kingdoms and skill lines (general ones now since the class ones have been detached from it and are tied to your vessels level now) are where you gain permanent stuff in the shape of trophies, passives and materials. That way you are still going somewhere so to speak.


    Your vessels do not end when the campaign ends.   They live on.  How many items you can take to your Eternal Kingdom (or just your bank) depends on the campaign rules as well as whether you won or lost the campaign.  Some campaigns may require that you start a new vessel.

    The Vessels exist so that you can still have multiple characters that you level up the normal way (kill things, etc) but also have the offline account wide training that they really seem to want.

    Also, they will get locked to a campaign so if you wanted to play in one campaign on Monday but then a different one on Tuesday you could use a different vessel.

    Thanks for that, I was under the assumption that vessels would always end after a campaign, not that it was a separate campaign rule. I knew about the locked part.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    Another interesting concept (good? bad?  Who knows) is that you can build those vessels with Necromancy.   So you start out with a "white" vessel in your chosen race/class... but eventually you will want to have a necromancer build you a better vessel.  One that you have tailored and customized to have more Dexterity... or Strength or whatever.  Those vessels are colored just like drops... white/green/blue/purple/gold.

    Those vessels also take FAR more EXP to level than a white one.


    Yeah, I am not sure about that either. On the one hand I think it is interesting to treat a character as an item and it kind of fits the theme, on the other hand it just feels like an extra layer for the sake of having an extra layer. We will see.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
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    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,552
    lahnmir said:
    lahnmir said:
    YashaX said:
    With Crowfall, I just don't "get" the gameplay loop. As just one example, what is the point of these vessels? It doesn't seem to add anything of value in terms of gameplay, its just another grind and power-gap mechanic.

    The crafting mechanic also seems weird and kind of pointless, there is little in the way of atmosphere, the world doesn't feel interesting "real" or immersive, there is basically no visual character customization, things feel very arbitrary, "gamey", and overly complicated for no particular reason. 

    The vessel question is a good one. Once a campaign ends your vessel ends. Several worlds might also have limits on what types of vessels you can use and having to start a new vessel every campaign means everybody starts on equal footing. Those are the main reasons.

    But, starting from scratch every time doesn’t give you a sense of progress so the Eternal Kingdoms and skill lines (general ones now since the class ones have been detached from it and are tied to your vessels level now) are where you gain permanent stuff in the shape of trophies, passives and materials. That way you are still going somewhere so to speak.


    Your vessels do not end when the campaign ends.   They live on.  How many items you can take to your Eternal Kingdom (or just your bank) depends on the campaign rules as well as whether you won or lost the campaign.  Some campaigns may require that you start a new vessel.

    The Vessels exist so that you can still have multiple characters that you level up the normal way (kill things, etc) but also have the offline account wide training that they really seem to want.

    Also, they will get locked to a campaign so if you wanted to play in one campaign on Monday but then a different one on Tuesday you could use a different vessel.

    Thanks for that, I was under the assumption that vessels would always end after a campaign, not that it was a separate campaign rule. I knew about the locked part.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    Another interesting concept (good? bad?  Who knows) is that you can build those vessels with Necromancy.   So you start out with a "white" vessel in your chosen race/class... but eventually you will want to have a necromancer build you a better vessel.  One that you have tailored and customized to have more Dexterity... or Strength or whatever.  Those vessels are colored just like drops... white/green/blue/purple/gold.

    Those vessels also take FAR more EXP to level than a white one.


    That's kind of what I was referring to when I talked about the extra grind. My understanding is that the vessel "levels" (green/blue/etc) give a large increase in power.
    ....
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,092
    Aeander said:
    I think there are some merits to the game design on offer here. Pick your own rules PvP is pretty appealing.

    I wouldn't call Crowfall's pitch as appealing as Ashes of Creation's or even Camelot Unchained's, but it's also not a subscription game. There's potential market room for it, and it's not like we're being flooded with MMOs anymore.
    What type of pick your rules PvP do they have? Could you perhaps shed some light on it and whether a player like me who prefers crafting and support roles will be able to carve a niche for myself.
    Arglebargle
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  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 515
    edited August 2

    cheyane said:


    Aeander said:

    I think there are some merits to the game design on offer here. Pick your own rules PvP is pretty appealing.

    I wouldn't call Crowfall's pitch as appealing as Ashes of Creation's or even Camelot Unchained's, but it's also not a subscription game. There's potential market room for it, and it's not like we're being flooded with MMOs anymore.


    What type of pick your rules PvP do they have? Could you perhaps shed some light on it and whether a player like me who prefers crafting and support roles will be able to carve a niche for myself.



    There are different world types. Every player gets their own Eternal Kingdom, which is your own world that you can build up, but it doesn't have mobs and no resources other than basic. You can set PvP on or off and they are mainly used as training areas or as commercial hubs.

    God's Reach is PvE only and meant as a place for players to level and learn about the game before being thrown into the fire.

    The Infected is 3-faction PvP, but there are no winners and no loot drop on death. It's basically a never ending 3 way tug of war, but it does have sieging, so it can serve as a place for guilds to practice siege strategies, or just for players to find a bit of small group/solo pvp.

    The Shadow is 3-faction PvP also, but the world progresses through the seasons, from spring to winter, and at the end a winner is declared. Players drop their inventory upon death.

    The Dregs is guild vs guild PvP. It has everything the Shadow has, but also city building and the divine favor system. Guilds can take keeps and add buildings that provide various benefits, like better crafting stations, barracks that produce guards, sentinels that create a no stealth zone, etc. The divine favor system is a set of cards that provide guilds with various objectives each season. These objectives provide ways for guilds to earn points toward victory outside of the siege system.

    When people refer to campaigns, they are talking about Shadow and Dregs worlds, as they are the only ones that end. These worlds have import and export rules. Those rules determine how much you can bring into or out of a campaign. Some campaigns will be zero import, while others will allow you to bring in a certain amount of stuff. Exports will be largely determined by how well you do in the campaign, though that functionality isn't active yet. Currently, everyone gets to export the same amount.

    The general idea is that they can make different campaigns with different rules. Some campaigns might be limited to certain races or classes. Some might be limited based on skill training or vessel quality. Popular rulesets can be repeated and less popular ones will end when the world ends. There's really no end to the different rules they can create. The campaign system allows them to try out different things.

    As a crafter, or any type of player really, I would highly recommend finding a guild. Crafters in Crowfall are very important. The best stuff is made by crafters.

    There is an issue currently with early game crafting, as it takes too long for crafters to be able to make stuff better than what drops from mobs, but that's an issue they are aware of and we should see improvements. They have already made some changes to fix it, but they probably need to go a bit further. To be clear though, only weapons and armor drop from mobs. Stuff like harvesting tools, vessels, potions and jewelry have to be crafted. And even some weapons and armor have to be crafted as well. Mobs drop combat armor, but if you want armor that has harvesting or crafting stats, it will have to be crafted.

    Another issue with crafting currently is that it involves a lot of clicks. The original plan was to have factories that would enable players to mass produce items. You would create an item by hand, but instead of producing the item, you would produce a blueprint that would have a certain number of copies, which you would then put into a factory along with the required resources/sub components.

    Factories won't make it in before launch, but they are working on a way to create a variable number of items at the same time. For example, Coal, used in Blacksmithing, requires 3 wood and 2 ethereal dust, and produces 5 coal. You need 30 coal to make a complete set of armor. Instead of executing the coal recipe 6 times, we'll be able to do it once. I'm not sure if the functionality will extend to stuff that you have to experiment on...I think not...but even if it's only for the stuff like coal, carbon, grinding wheels, etc., it will help reduce the number of clicks. It will be especially useful for cooking, as nothing in cooking involves experimentation.
    Post edited by Arkade99 on
    cheyaneYashaX
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