Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
The #1 problem is that technology is outpacing development time by at least a factor of three. Look at Star Citizen for example. 11 years in the making with literally hundreds of employees and the technology they are trying to build a game on has changed 3x over. Every time that happens, you are basically starting over.
The best thing any developer can do is under promise and over deliver. If they give some grand list like you identified and they fail to deliver, the game is doomed from the start with the community saying it was just another over-hyped game. Developers will always be in a no win situation.
Let's look at Age of Conan for example. This game should have been one of the best low fantasy MMORPGs ever made. Unfortunately, Funcom ran out of time and development money and released a game entirely too early. The crafting system wasn't even allowed to be tested by the community before launch with the developers saying, "Don't worry about crafting, it is in there."
The bottom line is, it is easier to take a smaller MMORPG and let it get grand over time than it is to make a grand MMORPG from the start unless you have $1,000,000,000 and staff of 1,500 people and don't need your money back or profits for a decade.
Nice wish list - I think the only way this could happen is if someone rich (a corporation or individual) paid for the whole thing and didnt expect a return or profit for a very long time, or possibly never.
So basically a mmo of passion that was paid for someone and where devs, publishers etc... dont ever have to resort to greed, thus keeping the game pure
So anyone know any billionaires that would fund tens of millions or more as a gift?
The problem with current state of MMO gaming
1. Super expensive to make triple A title 2. This makes investors nervous and unlikely to fund 3. Devs and publishers put in aggressive cash shop to make up for huge cost 4. Gameplay suffers because of the above as focus is shifted to monetization and not gameplay
I remember watching Shark Tank once and the person was trying to sell an online game to the sharks........before he even started his pitch, mark Cuban said "i'm out" and won't ever even consider investing in an online game....he basically said the risk is too big and the payoff is either a loss or very small gain. Also you have no idea what will and what wont be a hit anymore.....Just look at Fortnite...it is sheer crap and look at the money it has made.
First and foremost a
company that’s in it for passion.
Passion is a double-edged sword, and passion alone isn't worth much.
I think the most important thing here is that the studio's primary desire is to make a good game, and not to make money. Passion can help with that, but passion can also be blinding: a dev might be really passionate about specific features or a time period from their gaming history, but that doesn't mean those features will work well today.
But, regardless of passion, you can never forget the business side of things. You need money to make the game, money to launch the game, and money to continue supporting the game. Passion won't help with that, but a great leadership team will, even if they aren't passionate about gaming.
I would even go so far as to say that passion is often a hinderance and I believe a more methodical, scientific approach to designing games would benefit us all. We've now got over 20 years worth of MMO history to analyse, so combine that with some human psychology and I think we'll end up with better games than we have now. Games are mostly a feat of engineering after all.
Digital download
price + monthly fees, but it better be worth it (see above). It worked in the early 2000s it can work
now. Never a cash shop.
Whilst my personal preference is definitely the same as yours when it comes to business models, I acknowledge that other business models are equally valid and successful.
What I would say on this point is that you need to match your business model to the game you've built.
If you have built your game for the long term, with a focus on community and retaining customers, then a subscription model is absolutely the best way to go. However, if you've built a shorter term game that relies more on the churn (like the majority of themeparks) then a f2p / b2p has already been proven to be better than a subscription model.
A game so large, no
expansions for years. After all you
payed for it (see both above).
The size of the game world has little bearing on whether the game is fun or not. Whilst I, too, definitely want to see large game worlds, I'm far more concerned about what you can do within that world. If the game is built on vertical progression, then a large gameworld becomes meaningless as most of the world becomes obsolete very quickly.
Realms where players
live in and know each other. No
innovative crap, they got it right the first time.
They didn't get it right the first time. Thats why we ended up with rounds of server merges, cross-server functionality and mega-servers.
Fixed servers with no instancing is a great way to help foster a community spirit. Forming social bonds requires repeated contact with others, which is what a fixed server and minimal instancing will give you. But, unless your game continues to expand, each server will steadily decrease in size with regards to community. Devs have yet to come up with a good solution to this problem. I'm personally happy with server merges, but it's inelegant so I can understand why studios searched for other ways to tackle the problem.
NO cinema videos, no
personal story lines, and very few chain quest….. This takes players away from
playing with others.
Story is a single player mechanic that does not work well in a massively multiplayer environment. On that we can agree.
However, there is nothing inherantly wrong with quests or quest lines. You have to remember human nature: most of us are sheep and we need to be guided, which is exactly what quests do.
I think that there is a better way to design quests so that they work in a massively multiplayer environment, guiding players towards certain activities or delivering short-but-sweet storylines within the world (like the rebel and empire themeparks within swg).
My main suggestion is to remove XP from quests. We should be gaining experience from the activities we engage in, not through speaking to an NPC. I believe that removing XP from quests would make them more optional, but also allow the devs to make less of them, but of higher quality.
Old fashioned
trinity system where players are dependent on other classes and no class can do
it all.
Personally, I find the trinity system to be far too limiting. Tank, healer, dps is very simplistic. In my experience, rolling with just the trinity dramatically reduces the tactical options and creativity that the devs can work with.
I prefer trinity+ : tank, healer, dps, then buffers, debuffers, crowd control as well.
When done well, this adds far more depth to the game and the combat, opening up way more options, way more ways to approach the game.
A key part of this is allowing players to find the role that suits them best. If you only have 3 roles, then there will be plenty of players who don't identify with those roles and so they'll find the game less engaging (im personally a fan of support roles, with lotro's captain being the best class ive ever played).
Designing a class system that is heavy on interdependance is also a double-edged sword. For those players that enjoy grouping up, sure, they'll love such a system. But for everyone else, it will mean feeling gimped or shallow whenever they do something solo. Whilst this is the massively multiplayer genre, and we're supposed to being playing together, there are loads of reasons to also play solo (maybe you don't have time, maybe no energy, maybe no-one online, whatever, tons of valid reasons to play solo).
If you can design a system where the solo game also has a ton of depth and is engaging, then adding additional interdependance is great and worth doing. But if the solo game is shallow, then focusing on interdependance isn't really worth doing as you'll lose too many players before they are comfortable joining groups.
Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
You contradicted yourself in your response. You say industry is drying up and then say there are millions strong of real MMO players unless you mean that the hardcore mmo players are coming back in droves while the casual ones recede.
Either way, you seem to think you know more than people in the industry who study these trends as their job.
If there were millions of REAL MMO players than they would have been captured already.
The game you think needs to happen will fail spectacularly with those features. Too expensive, too small of an audience, and bad playstyle.
I actually prefer F2P games but that is due to my work and lifestyle dictating that, rather than i actually like it. I actually prefer a $50 per month game with active mods so no botting and bullshit and a billion dollar budget to create a game with black desert graphics with amazing depth and such, but i know im a minority.
I also barely ever play MMO's because they havent innovated since inception and any MMO i even try to play, ive done it all before.
I do play one MMO from 2004, it is project entropia, and that is because of the real cash economy and i only play it while i do other things given the complete lack of attention it needs.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
So, OP, what you are saying is you want a developer to take 20 years to make a game? Seriously, enough content for years before there is an expansion? I think your expectations are pie in the sky. Look at Ashes for example, they are still years from release. Ashes has been in development for five years now. Fortnite was the death knell for AAA MMORPGs. Now Investors expect a quick return on their money. That simply can not happen with an MMORPG the size of which you are talking about. Bottom line, chances are that any AAA MMORPG will come from an indie crowd funded game instead of the likes of Bethesda, etc.
AOC last i heard in most recent video has VERY few employees presently active.I could be getting my games mixed up but i think not,Steve said they would have eventually 70 people back up and running.Well 70 people is NOT enough for a AAA game,try more like 200-300. So simple math and IF your studio is well organized says that 200 is 3x the workforce so the game would be out 3x faster. The problem is that most of these studios seem very unorganized and are for the most part just winging it as they go day by day,$$ by $$$.
You also don't need a ton of content,you need good fun content that players don't mind playing.I don't mean 24/7 raiding,that is crap gaming,not even rpg gaming.I am talking more about something that actually makes sense like in FFXI "Besieged"the beastman hordes attacking the city and players come together to help defend it.NO rewards,no loot ,just fun.
The other problem with mmorpg designs besides just being crap is they encourage fast treadmills,RACING.That is not what a rpg should be about...ever.SLOW the damn games down,if you need to see level 20 by end of 2 days you really shouldn't be playing a rpg.
Long winded point,design better games and then you can slowly work on them after release and continue to add new content that way.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So, OP, what you are saying is you want a developer to take 20 years to make a game? Seriously, enough content for years before there is an expansion? I think your expectations are pie in the sky. Look at Ashes for example, they are still years from release. Ashes has been in development for five years now. Fortnite was the death knell for AAA MMORPGs. Now Investors expect a quick return on their money. That simply can not happen with an MMORPG the size of which you are talking about. Bottom line, chances are that any AAA MMORPG will come from an indie crowd funded game instead of the likes of Bethesda, etc.
AOC last i heard in most recent video has VERY few employees presently active.I could be getting my games mixed up but i think not,Steve said they would have eventually 70 people back up and running.Well 70 people is NOT enough for a AAA game,try more like 200-300. So simple math and IF your studio is well organized says that 200 is 3x the workforce so the game would be out 3x faster. The problem is that most of these studios seem very unorganized and are for the most part just winging it as they go day by day,$$ by $$$.
You also don't need a ton of content,you need good fun content that players don't mind playing.I don't mean 24/7 raiding,that is crap gaming,not even rpg gaming.I am talking more about something that actually makes sense like in FFXI "Besieged"the beastman hordes attacking the city and players come together to help defend it.NO rewards,no loot ,just fun.
The other problem with mmorpg designs besides just being crap is they encourage fast treadmills,RACING.That is not what a rpg should be about...ever.SLOW the damn games down,if you need to see level 20 by end of 2 days you really shouldn't be playing a rpg.
Long winded point,design better games and then you can slowly work on them after release and continue to add new content that way.
The reason I mentioned Ashes is because if you watched Steven in the most recent interview he gave, he said they will be eventually ramping up to 250-300 in house employees plus outside contractors. So I'm with you on this. 100% Agree with your last point.
Digital download
price + monthly fees, but it better be worth it (see above). It worked in the early 2000s it can work
now. Never a cash shop.
It worked in the early 2000s because there was no other option...We had a handful of games and they all charged monthly fees....Once there were other options many of those games went f2p with a cash shop. Charging an additional fee doesn't make the game better.
You can't pick and choose things on the list, ALL must happen.
Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
You contradicted yourself in your response. You say industry is drying up and then say there are millions strong of real MMO players unless you mean that the hardcore mmo players are coming back in droves while the casual ones recede.
Either way, you seem to think you know more than people in the industry who study these trends as their job.
If there were millions of REAL MMO players than they would have been captured already.
The game you think needs to happen will fail spectacularly with those features. Too expensive, too small of an audience, and bad playstyle.
I actually prefer F2P games but that is due to my work and lifestyle dictating that, rather than i actually like it. I actually prefer a $50 per month game with active mods so no botting and bullshit and a billion dollar budget to create a game with black desert graphics with amazing depth and such, but i know im a minority.
I also barely ever play MMO's because they havent innovated since inception and any MMO i even try to play, ive done it all before.
I do play one MMO from 2004, it is project entropia, and that is because of the real cash economy and i only play it while i do other things given the complete lack of attention it needs.
Where EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU got it wrong. Is data collecting !!!!!
Several times I used the example "if you abruptly take something away and it no longer exist"...... How can it be studied ?????
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
^^ Funny how this gets ignored EVERY TIME...... This is an absolute, but all of you side track this fact.
You can't be intelligent if you ignore facts about something, and this is what all of you do:)
Second Generation mmorpgs were taken away, they were loved by MILLIONS
Developers decided ON THEIR OWN to make the next generation mmorpgs. The list of why is another topic...... I could start one if you like, I have at least five good reasons.
Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
You contradicted yourself in your response. You say industry is drying up and then say there are millions strong of real MMO players unless you mean that the hardcore mmo players are coming back in droves while the casual ones recede.
Either way, you seem to think you know more than people in the industry who study these trends as their job.
If there were millions of REAL MMO players than they would have been captured already.
The game you think needs to happen will fail spectacularly with those features. Too expensive, too small of an audience, and bad playstyle.
I actually prefer F2P games but that is due to my work and lifestyle dictating that, rather than i actually like it. I actually prefer a $50 per month game with active mods so no botting and bullshit and a billion dollar budget to create a game with black desert graphics with amazing depth and such, but i know im a minority.
I also barely ever play MMO's because they havent innovated since inception and any MMO i even try to play, ive done it all before.
I do play one MMO from 2004, it is project entropia, and that is because of the real cash economy and i only play it while i do other things given the complete lack of attention it needs.
Where EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU got it wrong. Is data collecting !!!!!
Several times I used the example "if you abruptly take something away and it no longer exist"...... How can it be studied ?????
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
^^ Funny how this gets ignored EVERY TIME...... This is an absolute, but all of you side track this fact.
You can't be intelligent if you ignore facts about something, and this is what all of you do:)
Second Generation mmorpgs were taken away, they were loved by MILLIONS
Developers decided ON THEIR OWN to make the next generation mmorpgs. The list of why is another topic...... I could start one if you like, I have at least five good reasons.
Except that.... You make the same mistake as you accuse him and others of doing.
You have no data to support your position either.
For all you know 95% of the players who enjoyed 1st Gen MMORPGs could have been abducted by aliens, maybe that's why old school designs went away.
Don't be surprised if you find a pod underneath your bed soon is all I'm saying...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
You contradicted yourself in your response. You say industry is drying up and then say there are millions strong of real MMO players unless you mean that the hardcore mmo players are coming back in droves while the casual ones recede.
Either way, you seem to think you know more than people in the industry who study these trends as their job.
If there were millions of REAL MMO players than they would have been captured already.
The game you think needs to happen will fail spectacularly with those features. Too expensive, too small of an audience, and bad playstyle.
I actually prefer F2P games but that is due to my work and lifestyle dictating that, rather than i actually like it. I actually prefer a $50 per month game with active mods so no botting and bullshit and a billion dollar budget to create a game with black desert graphics with amazing depth and such, but i know im a minority.
I also barely ever play MMO's because they havent innovated since inception and any MMO i even try to play, ive done it all before.
I do play one MMO from 2004, it is project entropia, and that is because of the real cash economy and i only play it while i do other things given the complete lack of attention it needs.
Where EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU got it wrong. Is data collecting !!!!!
Several times I used the example "if you abruptly take something away and it no longer exist"...... How can it be studied ?????
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
^^ Funny how this gets ignored EVERY TIME...... This is an absolute, but all of you side track this fact.
You can't be intelligent if you ignore facts about something, and this is what all of you do:)
Second Generation mmorpgs were taken away, they were loved by MILLIONS
Developers decided ON THEIR OWN to make the next generation mmorpgs. The list of why is another topic...... I could start one if you like, I have at least five good reasons.
Except that.... You make the same mistake as you accuse him and others of doing.
You have no data to support your position either.
For all you know 95% of the players who enjoyed 1st Gen MMORPGs could have been abducted by aliens, maybe that's why old school designs went away.
Don't be surprised if you find a pod underneath your bed soon is all I'm saying...
Since no data can be collected, no one can show ANY FACTS, me,him, anyone on the topic of data showing 3rd gen is liked more than 2nd gen.
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
Warhammer 2008 was the first disliked mmorpg.
-Most have left this site because no mmos to play. -Countless polls conducted here show overwhelming unhappiness, and that's with the majority gone. Results were ignored every time. -This site has thousands of FREE players sticking up for this crap.
"Prove your statement"..... it's everyone way of a cop out.... Maybe I have a forty person data collecting team here at my house, complete with access to everything on this planet. Prove me wrong !
See how silly that sounds ?...... That's how silly everyone here sounds, when they say prove something !
Basically OP wants a very expensive game due to size and polish for a minority of gamers with an antiquated monetization system . . .
Your here for years, yet yet your clueless. Can't you see the industry is drying up rapidly. Even topics here are much fewer.
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
You contradicted yourself in your response. You say industry is drying up and then say there are millions strong of real MMO players unless you mean that the hardcore mmo players are coming back in droves while the casual ones recede.
Either way, you seem to think you know more than people in the industry who study these trends as their job.
If there were millions of REAL MMO players than they would have been captured already.
The game you think needs to happen will fail spectacularly with those features. Too expensive, too small of an audience, and bad playstyle.
I actually prefer F2P games but that is due to my work and lifestyle dictating that, rather than i actually like it. I actually prefer a $50 per month game with active mods so no botting and bullshit and a billion dollar budget to create a game with black desert graphics with amazing depth and such, but i know im a minority.
I also barely ever play MMO's because they havent innovated since inception and any MMO i even try to play, ive done it all before.
I do play one MMO from 2004, it is project entropia, and that is because of the real cash economy and i only play it while i do other things given the complete lack of attention it needs.
Where EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU got it wrong. Is data collecting !!!!!
Several times I used the example "if you abruptly take something away and it no longer exist"...... How can it be studied ?????
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
^^ Funny how this gets ignored EVERY TIME...... This is an absolute, but all of you side track this fact.
You can't be intelligent if you ignore facts about something, and this is what all of you do:)
Second Generation mmorpgs were taken away, they were loved by MILLIONS
Developers decided ON THEIR OWN to make the next generation mmorpgs. The list of why is another topic...... I could start one if you like, I have at least five good reasons.
Except that.... You make the same mistake as you accuse him and others of doing.
You have no data to support your position either.
For all you know 95% of the players who enjoyed 1st Gen MMORPGs could have been abducted by aliens, maybe that's why old school designs went away.
Don't be surprised if you find a pod underneath your bed soon is all I'm saying...
Since no data can be collected, no one can show ANY FACTS, me,him, anyone on the topic of data showing 3rd gen is liked more than 2nd gen.
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
Warhammer 2008 was the first disliked mmorpg.
-Most have left this site because no mmos to play. -Countless polls conducted here show overwhelming unhappiness, and that's with the majority gone. Results were ignored every time. -This site has thousands of FREE players sticking up for this crap.
"Prove your statement"..... it's everyone way of a cop out.... Maybe I have a forty person data collecting team here at my house, complete with access to everything on this planet. Prove me wrong !
See how silly that sounds ?...... That's how silly everyone here sounds, when they say prove something !
How much money do you think a house would need to create the mmorpg in your minds eye?
Now you want to create an mmorpg in my eye.....sounds painful
Lots, however we have a lots of chat room experts that would say many millions and that increased substantially in the last several years..... going with the experts say it's now impossible.
But this still doesn't stop the fact the list needs to happen to have an mmorpg. Because all we have now are games-on-line.
Don't like my list make your own after all it was a question.... Feel free to make one, I think most would like to see it
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
Isn't that list First Gen?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
Isn't that list First Gen?
You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.
What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.
He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
Isn't that list First Gen?
You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.
What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.
He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.
I could safely say everyone's second gen best were: -World of Warcraft -Everquest 2 -Lotro -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken) -I may have missed a few
all fit
Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.
Simple and easy…..
Second generation....... IT'S EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED AND IT'S ALL GONE....Strange how it's all gone.
Isn't that list First Gen?
You have to know his history, he wasn't there for the first Gen games.
What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.
He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.
I could safely say everyone's second gen best were: -World of Warcraft -Everquest 2 -Lotro -Vanguard (If overlooked the broken) -I may have missed a few
all fit
Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.
I think I can safely say many of us still left on these forums didn't think too highly of the designs of those 2nd Gen games and would prefer some new titles based on more "old school" ideas.
In your OP you emphasised the word "challenge" yet some here would say WOW and it's successors were not very challenging at all, outside of their raid content, which as I recall you actually didn't do, right?
For the most part, outside of two 9 month stints in Vanilla WOW I never played a single post 2004 released MMORPG more than three months, with most being a month or less.
DAOC, about 5 or so years between official server and free shards with EVE, a 2003 game being 10 years of paid sub time.
So yeah, not interested in bringing back any 2nd Gen games...all just crap IMO, but YMMV.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What needs to happen, Delete, is that you find a game that gives you proper neuruotransmitter release to your reward center that you deem it appropriate to spend your time on.
I did, i just dont expect to find it in an MMO, due to lack of innovation, and find it in Starcraft 2 on ladder.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
I believe "us consumers" said yes buy making current MMOs profitable. Sure, maybe it's just a handful of consumers with loads of cash burning holes in their pockets.
When the floodgates were opened on spending (cash shops), "old school" lost out.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
I believe "us consumers" said yes buy making current MMOs profitable. Sure, maybe it's just a handful of consumers with loads of cash burning holes in their pockets.
When the floodgates were opened on spending (cash shops), "old school" lost out.
I used this example earlier, Not only does taking a product away make it impossible to chart, but causes the players to follow.
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES = people will eat more apples or move away PEOPLE MUST LOVE 3rd gen GAMES = people will play 3rd gen games or move away.
The key to all of this is: People loved Bananas. People loved 2nd gen games.
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
I believe "us consumers" said yes buy making current MMOs profitable. Sure, maybe it's just a handful of consumers with loads of cash burning holes in their pockets.
When the floodgates were opened on spending (cash shops), "old school" lost out.
I used this example earlier, Not only does taking a product away make it impossible to chart, but causes the players to follow.
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES = people will eat more apples or move away PEOPLE MUST LOVE 3rd gen GAMES = people will play 3rd gen games or move away.
The key to all of this is: People loved Bananas. People loved 2nd gen games.
Money is trackable. Generally, MMOs today make more than old MMORPGs did. Simple math will say why: A monthly sub (spending with a ceiling) vs unlimited cash shop spending.
It may not be number of players showing (paying) their support, but businesses don't care. They want the most money they can make. 95% (made up number) of MMO players may want old type MMORPGs. It doesn't matter when businesses make more money not catering to them. Money talks. Wishes walk.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
REAL mmorpg players are "millions and millions strong" and left this site because all that is left is for arguments.
Everything on my list is simple standard second generation stuff it was easily standard back then.
This topic is a question (?) for ALL to give their input of what needs to happen, yet not one....... I would like to ask for your input but something tells me you like simple short free-to-play cash shop solo games...... Your type are even getting fewer.
The best thing any developer can do is under promise and over deliver. If they give some grand list like you identified and they fail to deliver, the game is doomed from the start with the community saying it was just another over-hyped game. Developers will always be in a no win situation.
Let's look at Age of Conan for example. This game should have been one of the best low fantasy MMORPGs ever made. Unfortunately, Funcom ran out of time and development money and released a game entirely too early. The crafting system wasn't even allowed to be tested by the community before launch with the developers saying, "Don't worry about crafting, it is in there."
The bottom line is, it is easier to take a smaller MMORPG and let it get grand over time than it is to make a grand MMORPG from the start unless you have $1,000,000,000 and staff of 1,500 people and don't need your money back or profits for a decade.
I remember watching Shark Tank once and the person was trying to sell an online game to the sharks........before he even started his pitch, mark Cuban said "i'm out" and won't ever even consider investing in an online game....he basically said the risk is too big and the payoff is either a loss or very small gain. Also you have no idea what will and what wont be a hit anymore.....Just look at Fortnite...it is sheer crap and look at the money it has made.
The size of the game world has little bearing on whether the game is fun or not. Whilst I, too, definitely want to see large game worlds, I'm far more concerned about what you can do within that world. If the game is built on vertical progression, then a large gameworld becomes meaningless as most of the world becomes obsolete very quickly.
Either way, you seem to think you know more than people in the industry who study these trends as their job.
If there were millions of REAL MMO players than they would have been captured already.
The game you think needs to happen will fail spectacularly with those features. Too expensive, too small of an audience, and bad playstyle.
I actually prefer F2P games but that is due to my work and lifestyle dictating that, rather than i actually like it. I actually prefer a $50 per month game with active mods so no botting and bullshit and a billion dollar budget to create a game with black desert graphics with amazing depth and such, but i know im a minority.
I also barely ever play MMO's because they havent innovated since inception and any MMO i even try to play, ive done it all before.
I do play one MMO from 2004, it is project entropia, and that is because of the real cash economy and i only play it while i do other things given the complete lack of attention it needs.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
So simple math and IF your studio is well organized says that 200 is 3x the workforce so the game would be out 3x faster.
The problem is that most of these studios seem very unorganized and are for the most part just winging it as they go day by day,$$ by $$$.
You also don't need a ton of content,you need good fun content that players don't mind playing.I don't mean 24/7 raiding,that is crap gaming,not even rpg gaming.I am talking more about something that actually makes sense like in FFXI "Besieged"the beastman hordes attacking the city and players come together to help defend it.NO rewards,no loot ,just fun.
The other problem with mmorpg designs besides just being crap is they encourage fast treadmills,RACING.That is not what a rpg should be about...ever.SLOW the damn games down,if you need to see level 20 by end of 2 days you really shouldn't be playing a rpg.
Long winded point,design better games and then you can slowly work on them after release and continue to add new content that way.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Several times I used the example "if you abruptly take something away and it no longer exist"...... How can it be studied ?????
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
^^
Funny how this gets ignored EVERY TIME...... This is an absolute, but all of you side track this fact.
You can't be intelligent if you ignore facts about something, and this is what all of you do:)
Second Generation mmorpgs were taken away, they were loved by MILLIONS
Developers decided ON THEIR OWN to make the next generation mmorpgs. The list of why is another topic...... I could start one if you like, I have at least five good reasons.
You have no data to support your position either.
For all you know 95% of the players who enjoyed 1st Gen MMORPGs could have been abducted by aliens, maybe that's why old school designs went away.
Don't be surprised if you find a pod underneath your bed soon is all I'm saying...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But one fact is....... Second generation mmorpgs stopped being produced:
WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OR INPUT FROM THE CONSUMER !!
Warhammer 2008 was the first disliked mmorpg.
-Most have left this site because no mmos to play.
-Countless polls conducted here show overwhelming unhappiness, and that's with the majority gone. Results were ignored every time.
-This site has thousands of FREE players sticking up for this crap.
"Prove your statement"..... it's everyone way of a cop out.... Maybe I have a forty person data collecting team here at my house, complete with access to everything on this planet. Prove me wrong !
See how silly that sounds ?...... That's how silly everyone here sounds, when they say prove something !
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Lots, however we have a lots of chat room experts that would say many millions and that increased substantially in the last several years..... going with the experts say it's now impossible.
But this still doesn't stop the fact the list needs to happen to have an mmorpg. Because all we have now are games-on-line.
Don't like my list make your own after all it was a question.... Feel free to make one, I think most would like to see it
Don't forget SWG and the NGE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What he really wants which his list well defines is someone to make a new game along the designs and scale of his first and greatest love, World of Warcraft.
He just tends to dance around actually saying so is all.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
-World of Warcraft
-Everquest 2
-Lotro
-Vanguard (If overlooked the broken)
-I may have missed a few
all fit
Vanilla WoW?...... You can ask all 9 million for its time if they liked it.
In your OP you emphasised the word "challenge" yet some here would say WOW and it's successors were not very challenging at all, outside of their raid content, which as I recall you actually didn't do, right?
For the most part, outside of two 9 month stints in Vanilla WOW I never played a single post 2004 released MMORPG more than three months, with most being a month or less.
DAOC, about 5 or so years between official server and free shards with EVE, a 2003 game being 10 years of paid sub time.
So yeah, not interested in bringing back any 2nd Gen games...all just crap IMO, but YMMV.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I did, i just dont expect to find it in an MMO, due to lack of innovation, and find it in Starcraft 2 on ladder.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Not only does taking a product away make it impossible to chart, but causes the players to follow.
If a remote village has apples and bananas (both are well liked) But bananas have very low profit margin and are taken away..... all will eat only apples or move away.
Years later if a study was done it would say PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES.
PEOPLE MUST LOVE APPLES = people will eat more apples or move away
PEOPLE MUST LOVE 3rd gen GAMES = people will play 3rd gen games or move away.
The key to all of this is:
People loved Bananas.
People loved 2nd gen games.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR