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Star Citizen Roadmap Roundup Sees Several Cards Move to Polishing

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Comments

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    Pointing out that multiple studios, with more experience, funds and human ressources have taken just as much time or more developing smaller games is not "defending" anything. It's stating what should be basic knowledge by now.

    Sorry if it exposes the wholes in your fantasy  :D
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,290
    Babuinix said:
    Pointing out that multiple studios, with more experience, funds and human ressources have taken just as much time or more developing smaller games is not "defending" anything. It's stating what should be basic knowledge by now.

    Sorry if it exposes the wholes in your fantasy 
    I don't think anyone has ever used more funds to develop a smaller game than Star Citizen currently is.
    Beholder2kFrodoFragins
     
  • Beholder2kBeholder2k Member UncommonPosts: 32
    Vrika said:
    Babuinix said:
    Pointing out that multiple studios, with more experience, funds and human ressources have taken just as much time or more developing smaller games is not "defending" anything. It's stating what should be basic knowledge by now.

    Sorry if it exposes the wholes in your fantasy 
    I don't think anyone has ever used more funds to develop a smaller game than Star Citizen currently is.
    Careful, we don't want to expose any wholes in his fantasy.
  • JoeBloberJoeBlober Member RarePosts: 417



    Excuse me JoeBlobber, but who declared you official spokesperson of the 1.2 million backers? I am a backer and I most certainly do not want them to endlessly implement half-assed tier 0 stuff that never gets improved like Arena Commander and Star Marine.



    You are just spouting the same BS like "the backers voted for an increase in scope" which is as far from the truth as your statement above.



    Fine because I said nothing different with "... this project is not driven by CR alone but +1.2 million individual backers, growing everyday because they want something bold and ambitious rather than a shalow copy of space game"

    I am sure you understand that Star marine and Arena were just place holder phase 0 to test stuff and give something to backers while the core game(s) was developed.
    TOW is the perfect example. This is phase 1 of SM +Arena put together. If you pay attention to lastest dev comment, they confirmed a team is dedicated to it. Improvments done (stability, pings) are going to benefit PU while providing a more robust test bed for FPS + vehicules interaction with 40 players.

    Note: yes bacekrs bacekrs voted not only through pools but also with pledges and new bacvkers at every patch since years. Which is the best way for a gamer to vote: join a game in heavy development.
  • JoeBloberJoeBlober Member RarePosts: 417

    jmlane223 said:


    Erillion said:


    jmlane223 said:


    Erillion said:

    >>>> A single developer working from their bedroom would push out more content than these clowns.>>>>

    That is your educated opinion on this topic ?


    Have fun


    Well shit, I'm the only software engineer on my team and factually know I deliver more (agile development) deliverables on a quarterly basis than what star shitizen drops. 

    (Everyone else is either a data scientist and or cost analyst)



    Which tells me you have no idea what they deliver or not.

    Please list their SQ42 deliverables. Which you cannot, as they are not publically known beyond a rough project task map.

    Which tells ME a lot about how good a software engineer you claim to be.



    Have fun




    For all you know i could be claiming to be a shit software engineer. Point being i factually know I've delivered more products in a shorter time span than star shitizen has in the same period. Which that is what is sad, shitty software engineer or not.

    You obviously regret your backing amount though and feel the need to defend the game to fight that feeling.

    Have more fun defending star shitizen



    That word alone "shitizen" say it all about your behavior toward SC community.

    And of course you can give a list of "more products in a shorter time"... with same double triple-A scope, including MMO, starting from scratch.
    Feel free to share the list... We are waiting :)
    jmlane223
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    Vrika said:
    Babuinix said:
    Pointing out that multiple studios, with more experience, funds and human ressources have taken just as much time or more developing smaller games is not "defending" anything. It's stating what should be basic knowledge by now.

    Sorry if it exposes the wholes in your fantasy 
    I don't think anyone has ever used more funds to develop a smaller game than Star Citizen currently is.
    Check the financial reports of the big studios and how much they spend on R&D and paying their thousands of dev's in multiple studios across the world and see how long their biggest games took.

    These companies need to make billions per year for a reason.
    Kyleran
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,372
    lahnmir said:
    lahnmir said:
    Babuinix said:
    lahnmir said:
    Babuinix said:
    You understand that any game before being released was once unreleased and had to go through development time right.

    Just like there are multiple games that took just as long and released there's plenty being developed for years which havent released yet...

    You're the only clown here pretending that normal development hurdles which happen in every studio and games are a sign of trouble lol

    You're fixation with brown matter is showing in your reasoning and the main reason why studios are forced to develop behind closed doors and enforce nda's.

    Cant handle watching the nity grit of game development without making drama out of mundane stuff lol
    Don't misconstrue what I have said. I said I am ok with the delays, free of all drama. I am not ok with the defending of every setback, delay or broken promise through mocking, meme's and shouting down at people, don't try to divert the issue to SC. I think, despite all hurdles and setbacks SC is doing great, I do not think the defenders of all things CIG are though. And I wouldn't call you mundane stuff, I wouldn't dare.

    And when you mock others, you get mocked back. Don't be a sore loser, keep citizensplaining away, just don't expect to be taken seriously in return.

    You're the one misconstruing.

    Dismissing the normal game development hurdles that happen with every game like: delays, setbacks, changes of scope, cutting features is not defending Star Citizen or any other video game.

    It's defending the activity of developing games and game developers because if you attack them for that your attacking them for doing their jobs. You simply can't develop any ambitious game without having those troubles in one way or another, it's absolutely part of the process and can't be avoided no matter what.

    What many keep doing is the equivalent of complaining that the water is wet and all your clothes are now heavier because you tried to swim fully clothed. Ofc they'll get mocked by people who know better.

    You'll need a lot more finesse after bringing the "feces and brown smearing faces" speech before calling out others to be taken seriously.
    Man, you have been ridiculing and mocking others’ for countless posts and now you get played with a bit and this is what we get. Its just a mirror mate, you play the music and I dance to the beat.

    The rest of your post is absolutely true. SC development is just like every other game, SC is pretty much just a game, like every other game. But when everything just a tiny bit positive gets enlarged to most amazing thing ever (Twitch stats and amount of funding being very clear examples of this) you can fully expect the same to happen with everything negative. But when the latter happens they are all trolls and haters and you are quick to discredit and shout them down. 

    And when you come up with nonsense like “most content ever” I just point out the untruth in that. I don’t mind SCs development or your enthusiasm at all, I would prefer you being a bit more objective and honest though. But, to be fair, that is not just you, you are just the most blunt and outspoken.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    It's shocking to see how disingenuous he is. Besides brand new accounts, he might be the most insulting person on the site. And worse yet, he plays the victim every time someone responds in even a light hearted way. I'm not even sure cowards hold a candle.

    He's been banned multiple times, over and over again. In my opinion at least, he hurts the game more than he helps it. Same with Erillion in my opinion. Thinking people read their shit and are put off by it. Personal attacks and idolatry are off putting in the end. 

    But never forget, $300+ million. That makes it the most wonderful thing to ever happen in history.

    Also, I love that you like the game. It gave me like 15 fps torture like 3 years ago when I tried it. And three years ago everyone was claiming that it was about to come out. 2020 was a ridiculous joke that people like Erillion, Babs, DKLond and Blobber lambasted.

    Amazing looking spaceships you have there. Now make them work please.
    I joined relatively late so I have no clue how the client performed 3+ years back. For the last year or so I have been pretty impressed with performance, I run it on max relatively smooth on an 1070 8gb. I do use an SSD and 32gb of RAM.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    In their defense, CIG has always stated that they were aiming for the high end of computer tech, whatever that was going to be.  Probably looking for that Crysis bleeding edge.  That's not something misrepresented. 

    Though it will be funny when they announce their move onto the consoles.

    But yeah, back in 2015-6, if you stated the game would be delayed to 2020, you were under fire from a host of fanboys.  Of course, now we know that date was wildly optimistic.   Even for just a third of a single player game.....

    The thing is that the engine will be dated by the time the game actually releases.  Assuming it ever does.
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,138
    Babuinix said:
    Vrika said:
    Babuinix said:
    Pointing out that multiple studios, with more experience, funds and human ressources have taken just as much time or more developing smaller games is not "defending" anything. It's stating what should be basic knowledge by now.

    Sorry if it exposes the wholes in your fantasy 
    I don't think anyone has ever used more funds to develop a smaller game than Star Citizen currently is.
    Check the financial reports of the big studios and how much they spend on R&D and paying their thousands of dev's in multiple studios across the world and see how long their biggest games took.

    These companies need to make billions per year for a reason.
    But many big studios use their OWN engine not one they bought from someone else. The game engine is where the big money goes into, the rest is just plugging things in, unless you are trying to make the engine do something it wasn't designed to do.

    I think you would be surprise how much money is not spent on development by big studios. 


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,982
    Babuinix said:
     "When it is ready" is not an acceptable answer.
    It's not up to you to make that call and whatever you think about any game or it's development that information is as relevant as if you like vegan food or crossfit. Nobody cares but you.
    Actually I can say with reasonable certainty "some" people care when it is going to release, just can't tell you how many.

    But none of that matters as there clearly are many people willing to keep waiting shown by their continued willingness to fund the development.



    botrytis

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867

    The thing is that the engine will be dated by the time the game actually releases.  Assuming it ever does.
    This is one of the most idiotic misconceptions I see thrown arround lol

    Engines can be iterated and upgraded for years and years. Same as game assets. 

    Rockstars RAGE engine is being used since 2006, Ubisoft bought Cryengine and the FarCry license and develop what would now is known as the Dunia Engine around 2008. EA's frostbite engine launched in 2008 too. Frontiers Cobra engine has been used since their first games.

    Star Citizen engine has been through several iterations and upgrades already and will keep having them just like any other big engine.




    Lol dated  :D
  • Beholder2kBeholder2k Member UncommonPosts: 32
    Babuinix said:

    The thing is that the engine will be dated by the time the game actually releases.  Assuming it ever does.
    This is one of the most idiotic misconceptions I see thrown arround lol

    Engines can be iterated and upgraded for years and years. Same as game assets. 

    Rockstars RAGE engine is being used since 2006, Ubisoft bought Cryengine and the FarCry license and develop what would now is known as the Dunia Engine around 2008. EA's frostbite engine launched in 2008 too. Frontiers Cobra engine has been used since their first games.

    Star Citizen engine has been through several iterations and upgrades already and will keep having them just like any other big engine.

    Lol dated  :D
    Their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech should have no problem then with hundreds of thousands of players per instance displayed in never seen before high-fidelity, right? RIGHT? Oh, still only 50 players  after all this time. 
    Back to hoping for future patches then i guess ...
    bigmilkbotrytis
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    Their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech should have no problem then with hundreds of thousands of players per instance displayed in never seen before high-fidelity, right? RIGHT? Oh, still only 50 players  after all this time. 
    Back to hoping for future patches then i guess ...
    Where have they mentioned that they would have "hundreds of thousands of players per instance"?

    As far as I know they ditched the plans to use instance a long time ago and went for a universal server meshing structure where servers will deal with players accordingly to their area. The more players in a area more servers are allocated to it, and that could possibly allow for thousands of players in the same area. Not "hundreds of thousands" like you're claiming.

    Besides, games like Planetside already proved that you can have have a thousand+ of players engaging in FPS battles back in 2015 so things should have improved by then.

    Like all the features they have to be developed and iterated for a long time before we get to see the profit. Besides if you remember the game started with only being able to have a 4x4, then 6x6, 8x8 arena commander battles. The universe was capped to 20 in the begging and you couldn't even land on planets and the FPS was bellow 20 no matter where you were or what rig ytou had lol.

    Now it's open to 50 players and you can get 100+ FPS outside the big cities.

    Networking and server meshing is just another feature they are working on and will eventually deliver just like they did with all the tech that is now available to players.
  • Beholder2kBeholder2k Member UncommonPosts: 32
    Babuinix said:
    Their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech should have no problem then with hundreds of thousands of players per instance displayed in never seen before high-fidelity, right? RIGHT? Oh, still only 50 players  after all this time. 
    Back to hoping for future patches then i guess ...
    Where have they mentioned that they would have "hundreds of thousands of players per instance"?

    As far as I know they ditched the plans to use instance a long time ago and went for a universal server meshing structure where servers will deal with players accordingly to their area. The more players in a area more servers are allocated to it, and that could possibly allow for thousands of players in the same area. Not "hundreds of thousands" like you're claiming.

    Besides, games like Planetside already proved that you can have have a thousand+ of players engaging in FPS battles back in 2015 so things should have improved by then.

    Like all the features they have to be developed and iterated for a long time before we get to see the profit. Besides if you remember the game started with only being able to have a 4x4, then 6x6, 8x8 arena commander battles. The universe was capped to 20 in the begging and you couldn't even land on planets and the FPS was bellow 20 no matter where you were or what rig ytou had lol.

    Now it's open to 50 players and you can get 100+ FPS outside the big cities.

    Networking and server meshing is just another feature they are working on and will eventually deliver just like they did with all the tech that is now available to players.
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.

    KyleranbotrytisArglebarglejmlane223
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,982
    edited June 28
    Babuinix said:
    Their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech should have no problem then with hundreds of thousands of players per instance displayed in never seen before high-fidelity, right? RIGHT? Oh, still only 50 players  after all this time. 
    Back to hoping for future patches then i guess ...
    Where have they mentioned that they would have "hundreds of thousands of players per instance"?

    As far as I know they ditched the plans to use instance a long time ago and went for a universal server meshing structure where servers will deal with players accordingly to their area. The more players in a area more servers are allocated to it, and that could possibly allow for thousands of players in the same area. Not "hundreds of thousands" like you're claiming.

    Besides, games like Planetside already proved that you can have have a thousand+ of players engaging in FPS battles back in 2015 so things should have improved by then.

    Like all the features they have to be developed and iterated for a long time before we get to see the profit. Besides if you remember the game started with only being able to have a 4x4, then 6x6, 8x8 arena commander battles. The universe was capped to 20 in the begging and you couldn't even land on planets and the FPS was bellow 20 no matter where you were or what rig ytou had lol.

    Now it's open to 50 players and you can get 100+ FPS outside the big cities.

    Networking and server meshing is just another feature they are working on and will eventually deliver just like they did with all the tech that is now available to players.
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.

    I think that specific quote has to be viewed in the context of the full interview.

    I didn't read where he stated there would be hundreds of thousands in a single fight or space, and definitely not in a single "server."

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/28/star-citizen-adds-mining-with-its-ambitious-alpha-3-2-quarterly-patch/
    BabuinixErillionjmlane223

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    edited June 28
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.


    Did you even read the article? He explained it thoroughly there. 


    Also, he doesn't mention "hundreds of thousands of players per instance".

    There's no instance in that phrase because he's clearly referring to having all the players sharing the same universe through server meshing.

    That means having "200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over."

    "We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year."

    Seems you're grasping for straws again. Yes their server meshing tech is taking longer than they anticipated as it's and huge task in itself, if it was easy anyone could do it right.

    And no whenever a dev says that they'll "probably delivery at X date" or "we're hoping to get it out by Y" and don't succeed that doesn't make them liars or incompetent lol

    It's simply the nature of uncertainty in game development.
    botrytisErillionjmlane223
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,138
    Babuinix said:
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.


    Did you even read the article? He explained it thoroughly there. 


    Also, he doesn't mention "hundreds of thousands of players per instance".

    There's no instance in that phrase because he's clearly referring to having all the players sharing the same universe through server meshing.

    That means having "200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over."

    "We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year."

    Seems you're grasping for straws again. Yes their server meshing tech is taking longer than they anticipated as it's and huge task in itself, if it was easy anyone could do it right.

    And no whenever a dev says that they'll "probably delivery at X date" or "we're hoping to get it out by Y" and don't succeed that doesn't make them liars or incompetent lol

    It's simply the nature of uncertainty in game development.
    No - it is the nature of game development with no end goals and no adults in charge (by that I mean people who will say enough is enough).
    Babuinix


  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    botrytis said:
    No - it is the nature of game development with no end goals and no adults in charge (by that I mean people who will say enough is enough).


    But "Hey lookatme being edgy and witty thinking I know better than industry professionals!" Pff B)





  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,290
    edited June 28
    Babuinix said:
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.


    Did you even read the article? He explained it thoroughly there. 


    Also, he doesn't mention "hundreds of thousands of players per instance".

    There's no instance in that phrase because he's clearly referring to having all the players sharing the same universe through server meshing.

    That means having "200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over."

    "We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year."

    Seems you're grasping for straws again. Yes their server meshing tech is taking longer than they anticipated as it's and huge task in itself, if it was easy anyone could do it right.

    And no whenever a dev says that they'll "probably delivery at X date" or "we're hoping to get it out by Y" and don't succeed that doesn't make them liars or incompetent lol

    It's simply the nature of uncertainty in game development.

    Look at a bit longer part of the article:

    GamesBeat: Where are you now as far as how many people can be accommodated in the alpha? Is that going to change? Are you in the hundreds or thousands of players?

    Roberts: In terms of an instance, right now we can put about 50 players in an instance. That will go up, but the final plan is obviously once we get the server meshing in — that won’t be this year, but that will be coming in next year — that will allow everyone to play in one huge instance with all the players. The servers will patch people from place to place. You can have 200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over. When they take off into space, another server takes over. But the goal is to have everyone in the same instance.

    Right now, as I say, we’re at about 50. We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year. But right now, as far as the concurrency of players together, we have thousands of players who are in the game all the time.

    Davis: 3.1 is live right now, and that’s the one that everyone’s playing. People will get involved in the public test universe as we release the next one as well.

    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year


    Beholder2k got it right. Back in 2018 they were talking that right now they're at about 50 players an instance, later in 2018 they estimate to get up to about 100, and their goal for 2019 was to "have everyone in the same instance"
    Beholder2k
     
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,982
    Irika said:
    Babuinix said:
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.


    Did you even read the article? He explained it thoroughly there. 


    Also, he doesn't mention "hundreds of thousands of players per instance".

    There's no instance in that phrase because he's clearly referring to having all the players sharing the same universe through server meshing.

    That means having "200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over."

    "We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year."

    Seems you're grasping for straws again. Yes their server meshing tech is taking longer than they anticipated as it's and huge task in itself, if it was easy anyone could do it right.

    And no whenever a dev says that they'll "probably delivery at X date" or "we're hoping to get it out by Y" and don't succeed that doesn't make them liars or incompetent lol

    It's simply the nature of uncertainty in game development.

    Look at a bit longer part of the article:

    GamesBeat: Where are you now as far as how many people can be accommodated in the alpha? Is that going to change? Are you in the hundreds or thousands of players?

    Roberts: In terms of an instance, right now we can put about 50 players in an instance. That will go up, but the final plan is obviously once we get the server meshing in — that won’t be this year, but that will be coming in next year — that will allow everyone to play in one huge instance with all the players. The servers will patch people from place to place. You can have 200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over. When they take off into space, another server takes over. But the goal is to have everyone in the same instance.

    Right now, as I say, we’re at about 50. We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year. But right now, as far as the concurrency of players together, we have thousands of players who are in the game all the time.

    Davis: 3.1 is live right now, and that’s the one that everyone’s playing. People will get involved in the public test universe as we release the next one as well.

    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year


    Beholder2k got it right. Back in 2018 they were talking that right now they're at about 50 players an instance, later in 2018 they estimate to get up to about 100, and their goal for 2019 was to "have everyone in the same instance"
    What is the definition of instance here?

    EVE is considered a single instance, but by no means do all players congregate in the same location.


    BabuinixErillion

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,436
    Babuinix said:
    lahnmir said:


    Oh boy here comes the love lol...

    You're doing the same mistake many who here do off throwing low hanging fruit attacks  and not expecting be challenged with knowledge and factual information. Putting facts straight is not aggrandizing a video game, it's bringing objectivity and clarity to the discussion. And no! Star Citizen "problems" are not "unique", they are standard considering what they are doing. Every big production game goes through them and that's something many like to ignore just for the sake of hating on the game.

    Showing twitch facts is not making a "tiny bit positive gets enlarged to most amazing thing ever". It's a clear factual way of showing that despite having bugs, bad performance and unstable servers it also has a lot of good things going on and that's why it keeps getting support of old players and new and making money. What "most content ever"? Where do you get those quotes anyway? Is there a context to go with that imagination? 

    A game and it's development dies or survives by their strengths, not their flaws. If a game strengths outweighs the flaws enough to keep the lights on it will always keep going. The industry is filled with many examples of "good" games that still went under due to unpredictable circumstances or flaws that outweighed their strengths. 

    Delays, Bugs, Changes of scope have happened with every game released and unreleased. They are actively happening right now too in multi-billion dollar studios with thousands of dev's like Rockstart while doing GTA6 or Bethesdas Elder Scrolls 6 or Ubisoft's BeyondGoodEvil2  development. It's the natural growing pains when doing something for the first time, you can hide them behind secrecy and a NDA but you can never avoid them completely.  That some here expect indie companies trying to do things to not go through them or even have the nerve to call them "incompetent" is downright insulting.

    We don't know about them because they are developed behind doors exactly to prevent the idiotic dramatic reaction from gamers like we can see on this gaming forums and many others.

    But it's definitely getting better here in mmorpg.com . Many of the ones who jumped on Star Citizen in the early days for it's normal development hurdles, and thanks to the appearance of other crowdfunded MMORPG's, namely in the fantasy realm, are now experiencing first hand the same development growing pains: like delays, bad performance, changes of features and so on.

    When someone who has more experience playing and following a games development calls out the ignorance of those who like to pretend they know about the game they are criticizing or feel like it's trendy and edgy to shit on it freely because they get off from being negative is not going out of your way to aggrandize anything, it's simply pointing out the flaws in someones reasoning. 

    "Oh but they have 300$Million dollars" - Earned and used for 8 years of continuous delivery of playable builds and showcasing their development.

    Take your yearly wage and multiply that for 8 years. It will give you a nice sum right. Guess you can retire then lol

    Many here (not you particularly) liked to pinpoint Star Citizen in any thread, preaching year after year that the game would collapse. Feeding from dumb drama threads that got no where, and have been put in there place by time and what's playable.

    Ofc it hurts haters and cynics to see them get another million in funding, off course it will hurt haters and cynics who say "the games has nothing to show" seeing Star Citizen topping charts of players and viewers on Twitch way above their "other favorite" games.

    Skimming through some clickbait headlines or read the lines in between doesn't make you knowledgeable enough about something as complex as a game in development and you shouldn't get feisty when your arguments get exposed. 

    So, pointing out ignorant remarks and lies about any game is not trying to put it on a good light or trying to convince people to buy it. Nobody gives 2 F's if critics or naysayers buy the game or even like it. The more smarties out of the community the better, and just like nobody gives a damn if you don't like crossfit or vegans, nobody cares you don't like a particular video-game lol
    Well, there is a lot of truth in what you write. But here is the thing, the thing that annoys me: Everything you write about works the other way around too. 

    -When nobody gives a F whether I don't like a game nobody gives a F if you do. Still you post every million raised in a thread that serves absolutely no purpose except annoy people.
    -when you point out ignorant remarks others will point out failed deadlines.
    -When you point out lies others will point out that using Twitch, a glorifed marketing tool by now, is not an honest way to show interest in the game.
    -When you expose arguments others will expose the failed comparison between finished games' their timelines and budgets with that of a game in Alpha.
    -When you tell people they know nothing about game development you fail to realise that you are in the exact same position.
    -When you tell people that calling incompetent is insulting they will tell you that calling all the missed deadlines competent is insulting.

    The funniest part? One side is called trolls and haters, the other side is supposed to be in the know and reasonable. There is no nuance, no reflection, they're just the same, the same coin, different sides.

    Some small niggles: CIG is by no stretch of the imagination an indie company anymore. They have the budget and manpower to challange any AAA company. Their position of underdog is long gone. they also play with money that isn't theirs. "Most content ever" was a bit blunt but referred to your post challenging somebody to post a NMS/ED video with more content than the videos you posted. Something I was able to do in 10 seconds because right now SC is but a grain of sand in the desert that is NMS. And that is not good or bad, it just is what it is. As for the low hanging fruit attacks, you know very well that you have been tossing fruit salads around when it comes to that since forever.

    I like SC and I don't mind it getting defended. I also don't mind it getting heavily criticised. It has lots of potential but it hasn't exactly been smooth sailing. You can like AND be critical of something at the same time, revolutionary stuff.

    I won't start on the whole presentation of arguments and general tone thing. Lets just say that being condescending and dismissive doesn't help, neither does shooting the messenger because you don't like the message.

    TLDR: People can fly for free and find SC the most amazing thing ever. People can fly for free and find SC an absolute piece of junk and waste of time and money. Both sides are equally right, no need to shout down one when they challange the other.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Mendel
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    lahnmir said:
    ><

    It absolutely doesn't work the way around, because I'm writing about a game I backed, play and follow development closely for 8 years. The same can't be said about 99% of the posters here.

    So excuse me if I feel I have a higher ground of knowledge about it when discussing it and can pin point the flaws of the many arguments we have here.

    - The ones getting annoyed by me posting the news that a video-company making another million to invest in it's game production are most likely the same ones who shat on said company preaching it's collapse back in 2015 and that around the Crytek lawsuit were saying the dev's were gonna be thrown in jail while backers were suckers lol So Boo F'ing hoo if they get annoyed by watching the company make millions year after year just I said they would back then. Rinse & Repeat.

    - A failed deadline is part of every game in development. Throwing it as an insult is showcasing ignorance about game development. I don't think I need to showcase more or better examples.


    No it's not the end of it all. It's a direct, unbiased and straightforward way of seeing how many players are streaming it and how many are watching it. It's not supposed to represent ALL the population of gamers but a sub-section of it. And I like to pull it specially because it's objective, factual data accessible to everyone and specially to counter the trolls that try to say there's nothing to play or try to compare it's merits with NMS/Elite/EVE.

    - Comparisons require context. Different games, just like any media. Music albums, Books, Movies. Can and will vary immensely in budget or time to release depending on the ambition or specific conditions of the project.

    If you wanna do comparisons you need to right context and specially know all the facts and reasons for why X took Y time or spent Z more.

    Most people who throw that card are just rehashing the same old ignorances they got from some clickbait headline and don't really care about general knowledge of the game development industry, they just want to feast on some sweet drama for the sake of luls.

    This forum has threads about many other Crowdfunded MMO's. Aren't they going through exactly the same hurdles of delays, changes of scope, cut features every other game goes? All games, all studios, all dev's go through that. It's not special and most certainly not to be used as ammunition to attack a game or it's devs. 

    So there's absolutely a difference between people who like a game, play it and support it while knowing and understanding the hurdles of game development and then there's those who like to shit on them using cheap based in ignorance and negativity. I dunno, maybe It makes them feel special or knowledgable, maybe that's why they get so mad when their ignorance is showcased lol

    - CIG is definitely considered a Indie company as in it's not on the leash of a big publisher. Indie means independent, not small or low bugdget even if those are the majority of the Indie companies we know now. Every big studio/publisher was once a small indie company that grew from there. Sure it's budget is huge for indie companies but for the Big publishers 35$million a month is probably not enough to pay half the people they employ.

    So CIG compared with the established AAA companies is still an underdog if not for the simple fact that they are a new studio and have a whole lot to prove still.

    They absolutely play with money that it's theirs. People gave it to them when they backed the game through crowdfunding. They didn't lend it. That trust was earned through hard work not given magically. 

    I called for that NMS/ED video because I believe games thrive because of their strengths not their flaws. And asking for a 5 minute video compilation of a game at it's best showcases that clearly and objectively.

    And no, pointing out that all those spots will generate a random planet with whatever new colours and shapes isn't new content or features, it's one feature: "you can land on procedurally generated planets". Base building is a feature, animal scans and mining ore is a feature. Landing on planet is a feature, EVA out of your ship is a feature, Driving vehicles is a feature, Engaging in FPS battles is a feature, Managing your equipment and weapons is a feature. Having a multitude of vehicles to drive/fly is content, having cities to explore is content, having mission givers and different missions types is content. Having different weapons is content and so on.

    TLDR: People's expectations and reactions should be contextualized and based on knowledge not ignorance to avoid ignorant remarks. Complaining that an alpha game in development has bugs, bad performance or changed features is like Swimming on lake on the winter and complaining the water is cold.
    botrytisErillionjmlane223
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,777
    Babuinix said:
    It's shocking to see how disingenuous he is. Besides brand new accounts, he might be the most insulting person on the site. And worse yet, he plays the victim every time someone responds in even a light hearted way. I'm not even sure cowards hold a candle.

    He's been banned multiple times, over and over again. In my opinion at least, he hurts the game more than he helps it. Same with Erillion in my opinion. Thinking people read their shit and are put off by it. Personal attacks and idolatry are off putting in the end. 

    But never forget, $300+ million. That makes it the most wonderful thing to ever happen in history.
    Here we are, an indefinite amount of time away with an indefinite amount of funding. Which I am fine with in principal. It's their business and people get to choose whether or not to buy in. For whatever reason, it appears lies bother me than most people. Some appear to view them as a means to an end. I find that mentality disturbing.
    You start with lies when calling others disingenuous? Way to shoot yourself in the foot lol

    If you go out of your way to attack a product you can expect to be called out for it by people who enjoy it. And no, they aren't doing anything than many other companies aren't doing nor they affecting you specially for it that they have to excuse for anything.

    Just because you have a personal grudge and an axe to grind doesn't make your reasoning special. There's no room for entitled snowflakes/angry gamers in game development.
    Babs is the prime example of the toxic community SC cultivated via Spectrums criticism-censoring mods and screaming white knights. The echo chamber at reddit isn't much better.

    To see where the project stands right now after all that time and money invested (look at what this patch will bring to the game) and he replies with "that is normal development" says it all. There is no honest discussion to be had. Not with him, not with Erillion and not with JoeBlobber.
    First off, Only people who have been posting and arguing with me for years in this forum call me "Babs".  

    As a fresh account calling me that is a bit strange and a clear indicative that maybe you're actually not new at all lol

    I suggest if you don't want to blow your cover to try to be more subtle going forward. ;)

    2nd: Calling out the ones who like to shit on companies and dev's for doing their work and dealing with the normal consequences of that work is not being toxic. That you're angry because a gaming community knows better than to give in to the drama some idiots would like to see pushed is, in itself, what being toxic represents. 

    But yeah, back in 2015-6, if you stated the game would be delayed to 2020, you were under fire from a host of fanboys.  Of course, now we know that date was wildly optimistic.   Even for just a third of a single player game.....
    From 2015-6 and on many here joined the doom preachers saying that the game company was going to collapse and that they would never be able to do features that are now available to play lol 

    I think the laughs go further in the side of those who have playing and supporting Star Citizen simply because we get all the fun and knowledge from playing the game and following its development while having extra insight when going back & forth in forums with those with less knowledge about the subject. 

    Still all the controversy is also the reason why the games keeps getting new players and making so much money. Win-Win!  B)
    Your usual obfuscations:  Pretty sure a bunch of those 'doom preachers' said things like, 'There's no way CIG can deliver this  FOR $60 MILLION (120 MIL, ETC) DOLLARS.   You drop that because, well, it's inconvenient.  And apparently true, as they've spent in excess of 300 million, and haven't delivered a game yet.  Not even a third of a single player game.

    If they manage to release a game with under $400 million spent, I'll be shocked.  And given the outside money, that dollar goalpost may be pretty dang close. 

    Your inability to examine the shortcomings of your vaunted big boss will mean you'll be riffing on the same excuses next year. Just like last year.  Same as it ever was.
    botrytis

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Beholder2kBeholder2k Member UncommonPosts: 32
    Kyleran said:
    Babuinix said:
    Their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech should have no problem then with hundreds of thousands of players per instance displayed in never seen before high-fidelity, right? RIGHT? Oh, still only 50 players  after all this time. 
    Back to hoping for future patches then i guess ...
    Where have they mentioned that they would have "hundreds of thousands of players per instance"?

    As far as I know they ditched the plans to use instance a long time ago and went for a universal server meshing structure where servers will deal with players accordingly to their area. The more players in a area more servers are allocated to it, and that could possibly allow for thousands of players in the same area. Not "hundreds of thousands" like you're claiming.

    Besides, games like Planetside already proved that you can have have a thousand+ of players engaging in FPS battles back in 2015 so things should have improved by then.

    Like all the features they have to be developed and iterated for a long time before we get to see the profit. Besides if you remember the game started with only being able to have a 4x4, then 6x6, 8x8 arena commander battles. The universe was capped to 20 in the begging and you couldn't even land on planets and the FPS was bellow 20 no matter where you were or what rig ytou had lol.

    Now it's open to 50 players and you can get 100+ FPS outside the big cities.

    Networking and server meshing is just another feature they are working on and will eventually deliver just like they did with all the tech that is now available to players.
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.

    I think that specific quote has to be viewed in the context of the full interview.

    I didn't read where he stated there would be hundreds of thousands in a single fight or space, and definitely not in a single "server."

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/28/star-citizen-adds-mining-with-its-ambitious-alpha-3-2-quarterly-patch/
    Quote from the article: 

    Roberts: In terms of an instance, right now we can put about 50 players in an instance. That will go up, but the final plan is obviously once we get the server meshing in — that won’t be this year, but that will be coming in next year — that will allow everyone to play in one huge instance with all the players.

    He is saying that they currently (2018) can have 50 players in an "instance" and that after server meshing is in (2019) all players will play in one huge "instance". Therefore in this context instance = main server like in EVE or WOW.
    Hint: They are still stuck with 50 players.



    Roberts  continues:

    The servers will patch people from place to place. You can have 200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over. When they take off into space, another server takes over. But the goal is to have everyone in the same instance.

    He is claiming that once server mashing is in (2019), the game will support 200 players per "room" (meaning location). Each location is handled by a server and players will be moved between servers as they change "rooms"/locations.
    Hint: 
    They are still stuck with 50 players.


    Erin goes on:

    Right now, as I say, we’re at about 50. We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year. But right now, as far as the concurrency of players together, we have thousands of players who are in the game all the time.

    In this passage he is saying that currently they have thousands of players in the game at the same time but only 50 in one "main server". He claims that by the end of the year (2018) this will probably go "up to about 100-odd" players.
    Hint: Yup, still stuck with 50 players.


    The interviewer then asks:

    The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?
    Roberts: That will be next year.

    When specifically asked when the game can handle hundreds of thousands players (per main server, NOT location) Roberts claims it will be "next year" meaning 2019.
    Hint: FiFtY pLaYeRs DuDe

    tl;dr: 
    • claimed 100-odd players per location available in 2018, 200 players per location available in 2019 after server meshing
    • claimed hundreds of thousands players in one "main server" in 2019 
  • Beholder2kBeholder2k Member UncommonPosts: 32
    edited June 29
    Babuinix said:
    GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

    Roberts: That will be next year.

    That was in an interview Erin Roberts gave ... in 2018.


    Did you even read the article? He explained it thoroughly there. 


    Also, he doesn't mention "hundreds of thousands of players per instance".

    There's no instance in that phrase because he's clearly referring to having all the players sharing the same universe through server meshing.

    That means having "200 people in a room, and when they leave that room, another server takes over."

    "We’ll probably get up to about 100-odd once we get the unconstrained streaming stuff in later this year."

    Seems you're grasping for straws again. Yes their server meshing tech is taking longer than they anticipated as it's and huge task in itself, if it was easy anyone could do it right.

    And no whenever a dev says that they'll "probably delivery at X date" or "we're hoping to get it out by Y" and don't succeed that doesn't make them liars or incompetent lol

    It's simply the nature of uncertainty in game development.
    I stated in a reply to you that their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech shouldn't have problems with hundreds of thousands of players in an instance, you asked where the "hundres of thousands" comes from and I quoted you the passage. 
    You now want "instance" to be "location" while I used "instance" in the same context as Roberts did = "main server" or as you put it "universe". Who is twisting the words and grasping at straws again?

    Edit: The further away a developer is from his estimated release date, the more incompetent he looks. If a developer keeps setting dates for release or patches and consistantly keeps missing them for years it is not proper development according to a set plan, it is trial and error. Now answer the call 2014!

    Edit2: To further elaborate on the first edit... take Cyberpunk 2077 for example. Although they postponed it again, it is still within normal development. So far it is not many years off the original release date and they also released top quality products before, which boosts confidence in the developer. 
    CIG on the other hand had trouble with their dates from the start, are still missing a shitload of promissed stuff in the game, and quite frankly still have to proof that SC and SQ42 are as good as they claim it will be.
    Post edited by Beholder2k on
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,867
    edited June 29
    Your usual obfuscations:  Pretty sure a bunch of those 'doom preachers' said things like, 'There's no way CIG can deliver this  FOR $60 MILLION (120 MIL, ETC) DOLLARS.   You drop that because, well, it's inconvenient.  And apparently true, as they've spent in excess of 300 million, and haven't delivered a game yet.  Not even a third of a single player game.

    If they manage to release a game with under $400 million spent, I'll be shocked.  And given the outside money, that dollar goalpost may be pretty dang close. 

    Your inability to examine the shortcomings of your vaunted big boss will mean you'll be riffing on the same excuses next year. Just like last year.  Same as it ever was.
    What Obfuscations lol? I didn't dropped nothing since all those threads and posts are right here all in the forums for everyone to read.

    And no, for the "doom preachers" there was never a chance for CIG. They were absolutely certain it was mismanaged, impossible tech hurdles like planetary landings were impossible and that the company was closing down studios and going to collapse in the next months, then it was the next year. Then it was Crytek that was gonna put the coffin on Star Citizen lol

    Only that the updates continued rolling, funding continued steady and even increasing, the Squadron42 Trailer was shown, financial reports released, a Billionaire valued the company at around half-billion buying 10% of it while Star Citien kept breaking funding records year after year and those 'doom preachers' turned into a meme, deservedly so.

    In the end how much a game costs to make is irrelevant if gamers are enjoying it! That's all that matters.

    The only reason it's worth celebrating every million is exactly because of the "extinction campaign" carried out by those 'doom preachers'. Which ended up backfiring spectacularly in their faces since CIG actually made more money because of it.

    All the drama just created more awareness for the project and people who usually had no interest in the game start getting curious about it. "Why so much money? Why so much hate?"

    And It's exactly because I have the ability to "examine the shortcomings of anything related with Star Citizen" AND compared them with all the shortcomings of other games development that I can provide clear and factual examples of several similarities between different studios and developers whenever someone tries to pushing something as a "problem" that indicates "failure".

    Like Beholder is trying to do below.
    I stated in a reply to you that their awesome engine combined with their revolutionary server tech shouldn't have problems with hundreds of thousands of players in an instance, you asked where the "hundres of thousands" comes from and I quoted you the passage. 
    You now want "instance" to be "location" while I used "instance" in the same context as Roberts did = "main server" or as you put it "universe". Who is twisting the words and grasping at straws again?

    Edit: The further away a developer is from his estimated release date, the more incompetent he looks. If a developer keeps setting dates for release or patches and consistantly keeps missing them for years it is not proper development according to a set plan, it is trial and error. Now answer the call 2014!

    Edit2: To further elaborate on the first edit... take Cyberpunk 2077 for example. Although they postponed it again, it is still within normal development. So far it is not many years off the original release date and they also released top quality products before, which boosts confidence in the developer. 
    CIG on the other hand had trouble with their dates from the start, are still missing a shitload of promissed stuff in the game, and quite frankly still have to proof that SC and SQ42 are as good as they claim it will be.
    They can have an awesome engine (like many other game studios do) and still have "problems with hundreds of thousands of players in a instance". Those are not mutually excusable. Not understanding that is being ignorant about the difficulties balancing networking for large scale games.

    How many engines do you know that can handle "hundreds of thousands of players in a instance"? lol

    Instance, location, zone, universe, game world. Those are all words that can be used in different contexts and represent the same thing. Don't be disingenuous. The interview is clear enough if you're willing to understand it.

    When they speak of areas they explained server meshing it's all said. They want to make ONE unified game world, made up of several zones/instances/areas dynamically stitched toguether where all the players can coexist in ONE playable area/mega instance/universe.

    That tech is being actively worked as we speak. Server meshing and Networking involves a huge task that it's taking longer than they anticipated. Just like all the other ambitious features that haven't really been made at this scale and graphical fidelity before there are doubters and cynics that use them to cast doubt in what the devs are doing. This is not new to Star Citizen as project since what they're aiming for is so ambitious and has never really been made with cryengine there's always been doubts from the start.

    Back in 2014 it was said by some that CIG wouldn't be able to make maps large enough to accommodate a space sim

    In 2015 there was doubts of their ability of making seamless integration of dogfighting in space ships, to fps shooting inside said ships, EVA in space, multi-crewing with friends running around your ship while you flew...

    Around 2016 Star Marine was impossible because the networking couldn't handle it.

    In 2017 it was the seamless planetary landings that were impossible.

    In 2018 Full scale planet cities were impossible...

    You get the drift...

    And no Cyberpunk "original release" date wasn't the first announced publicly. Just like Witchers 3 wasn't. Games are developed behind closed doors in secrecy for a reason. QA testing is done by workers of the company not by the public.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
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