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$300 Million WooHoo

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  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Hatefull said:
    Quizzical said:
    Scorchien said:
    It literally may be the worst 300million ever spent , SC is in an inexuseable state of bugs/ exploits/errors/crashes/ also lacking fundamental features and content for that amount of money ...
    It is just about everything wrong with crowdfunded mmorpgs and is a black eye on crowdfunding in general. 
    The real question is, how do they continue to rake in many millions of additional dollars even after that is widely known?
    Because it is actually fun to play and the people that play it see what the future holds! I thoroughly enjoy reading all the posts from the "experts" on these forums, most of which have never logged into the game nor know any real facts about it.

    It's fun and new feature come online pretty regularly. It will not be everyone's cup of tea, which can be said about most games, but what I have played has been fun and engaging. Yes, there are bugs, but I have yet to play a game pre-launch (and being honest most post-launch) that does not have bugs.
    Fun to play? It is a piece of shit tech demo. I tried it on a friend's PC and it was the worst piece of junk I have ever seen. If  this game is the future, you can have it.
    BabuinixErillion


  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,915
    botrytis said:
    Hatefull said:
    Quizzical said:
    Scorchien said:
    It literally may be the worst 300million ever spent , SC is in an inexuseable state of bugs/ exploits/errors/crashes/ also lacking fundamental features and content for that amount of money ...
    It is just about everything wrong with crowdfunded mmorpgs and is a black eye on crowdfunding in general. 
    The real question is, how do they continue to rake in many millions of additional dollars even after that is widely known?
    Because it is actually fun to play and the people that play it see what the future holds! I thoroughly enjoy reading all the posts from the "experts" on these forums, most of which have never logged into the game nor know any real facts about it.

    It's fun and new feature come online pretty regularly. It will not be everyone's cup of tea, which can be said about most games, but what I have played has been fun and engaging. Yes, there are bugs, but I have yet to play a game pre-launch (and being honest most post-launch) that does not have bugs.
    Fun to play? It is a piece of shit tech demo. I tried it on a friend's PC and it was the worst piece of junk I have ever seen. If  this game is the future, you can have it.
    It's still fun for some people. People have different tastes.

    However in Star Citizen's case just fun doesn't explain it. As per latest statistics released by RSI, people were paying them $2.8 per hour played. Due to time frame used this doesn't even include the end-of-year sales so the total purchases per hour played is even higher.


    Sources:
       https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17329-Playable-Now-The-Stats
      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207
     
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited July 2020
    Haters:
    Star Citizen backers:


    B)

    Erillionjmlane223
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,648
    People have the right to spend their money on what they want but I also have the right to snicker at them. 
    KyleranAmathePhaserlightjmlane223
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    Babuinix said:
    rodarin said:
    by Chris roberts math he shouold be able to build a BILLION dollar game for that. Wasnt that the original selling point of his initial spiel? That any money HE receieved was 'worth' 4 or 5 times more than if it was given to a 'greedy' developer.
    That's one of the reasons they have been able to develop 2 games at the same time for this long. If they had to save 75% of their budget for marketing like most big publishers they wouldn't be able to sustain development for so long.  B)
    You mean Squadron 42, that single player game that CIG has held up on finishing?  The one that they said at various times they could get out at $20 or $60 million?  That they then cut up into thirds, but still haven't managed to get even the first installment out?  The one that they kickstarted, claiming a 2015 or bust delivery frame?   That one that got all the money spent on actors and mocap, but then got backburnered for the new shiny?  The single player game that they claimed they'd done all the stories on, but turned out that was another lie?  

    The game that, if they released it with their usual half-assed development, might interfere with the money train?  That Squadron 42?
    jmlane223

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    I just started playing Grim Dawn...I think their total kickstarter was just a little above 500K.....That is 1/600th of what Star Citizen has.....Also how does a game with 600 devs not even come close to launch after all this time? I know games with 1-2 devs that launch after a few years.
    Bad project management is the answer.  They keep getting money, so every new shiny gets added, without any plan.  Trouble ensues....
    jmlane223

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • rathalas22rathalas22 Member UncommonPosts: 55
    I remember when Star Citizen first started their crowdfunding. They said the stretch goals wouldn’t add time to the development  because the money would be used to hire more workers. Eightish years later here we are.
    jmlane223
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    You mean Squadron 42, that single player game that CIG has held up on finishing?  The one that they said at various times they could get out at $20 or $60 million?  That they then cut up into thirds, but still haven't managed to get even the first installment out?  The one that they kickstarted, claiming a 2015 or bust delivery frame?   That one that got all the money spent on actors and mocap, but then got backburnered for the new shiny?  The single player game that they claimed they'd done all the stories on, but turned out that was another lie?  

    The game that, if they released it with their usual half-assed development, might interfere with the money train?  That Squadron 42?
    Plenty of smaller scoped games took longer to develop by older, bigger and experienced studios with more money and more developers and they weren't developing a mmorpg on the side or having to report weekly every week yet you feel the need to make up whatever fantasy to justify that petty hateboner for CR lol

    Games are being made and what we've of the game looks awesome, which is more than you can say about most AAA games development who are kept in secrecy right until release.


  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    Babuinix said:
    You mean Squadron 42, that single player game that CIG has held up on finishing?  The one that they said at various times they could get out at $20 or $60 million?  That they then cut up into thirds, but still haven't managed to get even the first installment out?  The one that they kickstarted, claiming a 2015 or bust delivery frame?   That one that got all the money spent on actors and mocap, but then got backburnered for the new shiny?  The single player game that they claimed they'd done all the stories on, but turned out that was another lie?  

    The game that, if they released it with their usual half-assed development, might interfere with the money train?  That Squadron 42?
    Plenty of smaller scoped games took longer to develop by older, bigger and experienced studios with more money and more developers and they weren't developing a mmorpg on the side or having to report weekly every week yet you feel the need to make up whatever fantasy to justify that petty hateboner for CR lol

    Games are being made and what we've of the game looks awesome, which is more than you can say about most AAA games development who are kept in secrecy right until release.


    Someone stupidly jumped off a cliff.  Therefor it is fine for me to stoopidly jump off a cliff.

    That's your SC argument.

    Your idol worship of Chris Roberts and his feet of clay is readily apparent.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Guys, calm down, calm down. Q3 2020 is here. SQ42 Beta is any day now. No need to bicker any longer.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Kylerannewbismx
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,750
    lahnmir said:
    Guys, calm down, calm down. Q3 2020 is here. SQ42 Beta is any day now. No need to bicker any longer.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Tell you what, if SQ42 beta releases in Q3 I'll pledge whatever amount gives me access to it.

    Got a new gaming laptop on order, will be a good test to put it through its paces.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    Someone stupidly jumped off a cliff.  Therefor it is fine for me to stoopidly jump off a cliff.

    That's your SC argument.

    Your idol worship of Chris Roberts and his feet of clay is readily apparent.
    Yeah... that analogy makes zero sense. Just as your reasoning about everything about Stat Citizen or game development in general lol

    No wonder big studios hide the development of their games for so long.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    Kyleran said:
    lahnmir said:
    Guys, calm down, calm down. Q3 2020 is here. SQ42 Beta is any day now. No need to bicker any longer.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Tell you what, if SQ42 beta releases in Q3 I'll pledge whatever amount gives me access to it.

    Got a new gaming laptop on order, will be a good test to put it through its paces.
    No public beta was ever planned. Dunno why such nonsense keeps coming up lol
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,915
    edited July 2020
    Babuinix said:
    Someone stupidly jumped off a cliff.  Therefor it is fine for me to stoopidly jump off a cliff.

    That's your SC argument.

    Your idol worship of Chris Roberts and his feet of clay is readily apparent.
    Yeah... that analogy makes zero sense. Just as your reasoning about everything about Stat Citizen or game development in general lol

    No wonder big studios hide the development of their games for so long.
    Used to be that you posted us images with statistics of how long successful games (MMOs) took to develop compared to Star Citizen.

    Now that Star Citizen has taken this long you've gradually moved the goalpost so that you're comparing it to games whose development got restarted or who for other reasons took especially long, and arguing that Star Citizen is still taking less time than those.

    Your arguments are gradually devolving into direction where Star Citizen is good because worse failures exists.




    EDIT: I think this was the image you used to post:


    FrodoFragins
     
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited July 2020
    Vrika said:
    Used to be that you posted us images with statistics of how long successful games (MMOs) took to develop compared to Star Citizen.

    Now that Star Citizen has taken this long you've gradually moved the goalpost so that you're comparing it to games whose development got restarted or who for other reasons took especially long, and arguing that Star Citizen is still taking less time than those.

    Your arguments are gradually devolving into direction where Star Citizen is good because worse failures exists.

    EDIT: I think this was the image you used to post:


    That just reinforces my point actually.

    Games made by big publishers,big budget from the get go and thousands of devs that didn't had to deal with crowdfunding or open development.

    They were't making a single-player game at the same time either or having live playable builds updated quarterly during development.

    As expectations grow and studios push for more complex and higher quality games so does the development time of games increases. Possible by GaaS revenue.



    That's why there's still no release dates for GTA6, Elder Scrolls: 6, Starfield, Pioneer, BeyondGood&Evil2, Diablo 4 etc

    The bigger the scale along with the gfx quality and inovation the longer it will take to develop. It's just how things go when developing ambitious games.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,915
    edited July 2020
    Babuinix said:
    Vrika said:
    Used to be that you posted us images with statistics of how long successful games (MMOs) took to develop compared to Star Citizen.

    Now that Star Citizen has taken this long you've gradually moved the goalpost so that you're comparing it to games whose development got restarted or who for other reasons took especially long, and arguing that Star Citizen is still taking less time than those.

    Your arguments are gradually devolving into direction where Star Citizen is good because worse failures exists.

    EDIT: I think this was the image you used to post:


    That just reinforces my point actually.

    Games made by big publishers,big budget from the get go and thousands of devs that didn't had to deal with crowdfunding or open development.

    They were't making a single-player game at the same time either or having live playable builds updated quarterly during development.

    As expectations grow and studios push for more complex and higher quality games so does the development time of games increases. Possible by GaaS revenue.



    That's why there's still no release dates for GTA6, Elder Scrolls: 6, Starfield, Pioneer, BeyondGood&Evil2, Diablo 4 etc

    The bigger the scale along with the gfx quality and inovation the longer it will take to develop. It's just how things go when developing ambitious games.
    RSI: 8 years development time and counting, they've managed to release one alpha test to public

    Rockstar: Took 8 years between Red Dead Redemption 1 and Red Dead Redemption 2, despite releasing GTA V in between. They're making both massive single-player campaigns and separate online games.

    Bethesda Game Studios: They released a game last year, and another game a year before that

    Blizzard: They're known to be slow, but they've still released 3 or 4 games during Star Citizen's development (number is uncertain because we don't know exact start date of Star Citizen's development). Also they released a whole lot of expansions for WoW, Hearthstone, Diablo and Starcraft II

    Ubisoft: Come one, they're releasing about 5 games a year
    botrytis
     
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    Exactly. If established studios with decades of experience billions in funding and thousands of devs can take 8+ years to release their games so can a indie studio created through crowdfunding.

    Star Citizen has a playable version since 2013 that has been updated constantly so the narrative that they have nothing to show for is simply idiotic specially since it's already the best game of it's genre for a lot of players despite still being in alpha.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,915
    Babuinix said:
    Exactly. If established studios with decades of experience billions in funding and thousands of devs can take 8+ years to release their games so can a indie studio created through crowdfunding.

    Star Citizen has a playable version since 2013 that has been updated constantly so the narrative that they have nothing to show for is simply idiotic specially since it's already the best game of it's genre for a lot of players despite still being in alpha.
    Those established studios have multiple projects and do constant releases. 

    RSI is spending hundreds of millions and +8 years with just an alpha to show for it.
     
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    LOL. Its so bad the white knight contingent has been reduced to a single shield. Not boding well.

    If you want to look at subjective reasoning involving gaming look no further than Last of Us 2. You will see exactly what reality is.

    BEFORE it released (but after the leaks) it was lauded as the best game ever to be created. 10/10 masterpieces all over the net. BY BOUGHT (access media) and paid for 'critics'. Release day and since its been crucified by actual players and  consumers. There have been actual disinformation as well as threat tactics used against any 'established critic who dares saying anything remotely critical.

    SC had a pig a rabbit and a delinquent  to run interference for them. But the goal is stil the same.

    This project cites every MONETARY 'achievement' and big sale number as something noteworthy. When was the last time they added something to the tech demo or made some asset that was actually noteworthy and bragged about that?

    This ting has been described in every way possible both good and bad but in the end it is at best just another space sim, at worst its the biggest scam (that maybe didnt start out that way) ever perpetrated on dreamers.

    This 300 million they boast. I suspect 280 of that is already spent. As per their own self accounting. SO what we see in all the free play (come buy our ships) event is what you get.

    As bad as people hated Last of us 2, there really wasntuch they could say about graphics and performance. There was some criticism of lack of advancement in mechanics but technically the game was excellent. SC doesnt even have that. Thir claim to fame has always been graphics (aside from the money) and every year that passes that claim gets weaker and weaker. It isnt even the best graphical game right now so how will it age over the next how many more years it will take to get some they they can call (at least) MVP?

    Als babu wat sot cite how theyre making TWO games out of that money. How quickly they forget it was actually SUPPOSED to be THREE games. Star Marine has completely been forgotten in all of this because the project as a whole is such a frigging dumpster fire that a third of the project getting done the way Star Marine did isnt even a footnote in most peoples minds anymore.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    edited July 2020
    A couple links to SM and a very interesting one related to it. It is listed in the external links of the first one but is a nice snap shot into history (5 years ago) it includes quite a bit on SQ 42 as well.

    For real entertainment scroll down tot he comments section and read those.



    https://starcitizen.gamepedia.com/Star_Marine



    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14803-Letter-From-The-Chairmane



    3rd party link explaining the semantics and foregoing any edits to the wiki



    https://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/what-happened-to-star-marine
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited July 2020
    Vrika said:
    Babuinix said:
    Exactly. If established studios with decades of experience billions in funding and thousands of devs can take 8+ years to release their games so can a indie studio created through crowdfunding.

    Star Citizen has a playable version since 2013 that has been updated constantly so the narrative that they have nothing to show for is simply idiotic specially since it's already the best game of it's genre for a lot of players despite still being in alpha.
    Those established studios have multiple projects and do constant releases. 

    RSI is spending hundreds of millions and +8 years with just an alpha to show for it.
    Rockstar has 9 studios and 2000+ developers.

    Ubisoft has 40 studios and 14000+ developers

    CIG has 5 studios and 600~ staff

    Star Citizen & Squadron 42 are also 2 big projects and their development has constant updates and progress shown.

    RSI is spending it's money building their studios and developing the tech to make the game they want and the community supports them as shown by the constant increase in players and funding.

    If making a game at this scale and all these features was easy someone else would have made it by now.

    If Ubisoft and Bethesda can spend 10+ years working on BeyondGood&Evil 2 and Starfield respectively with very little to show for why would you berate a crowdfunded studio for taking just as long but showcasing detailed development reports along the way...

    Oh and ignore the nonsense of Star Marine being "another" game or being "abandoned".

    It's a training module for fps battles just like Arena Comander is for flying, dogfighting and racing.

    It's been updated ever since it was added with new weapon loadouts and recently a new map.



  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Babuinix said:
    Vrika said:
    Babuinix said:
    Exactly. If established studios with decades of experience billions in funding and thousands of devs can take 8+ years to release their games so can a indie studio created through crowdfunding.

    Star Citizen has a playable version since 2013 that has been updated constantly so the narrative that they have nothing to show for is simply idiotic specially since it's already the best game of it's genre for a lot of players despite still being in alpha.
    Those established studios have multiple projects and do constant releases. 

    RSI is spending hundreds of millions and +8 years with just an alpha to show for it.
    Rockstar has 9 studios and 2000+ developers.

    Ubisoft has 40 studios and 14000+ developers

    CIG has 5 studios and 600~ staff

    Star Citizen & Squadron 42 are also 2 big projects and their development has constant updates and progress shown.

    RSI is spending it's money building their studios and developing the tech to make the game they want and the community supports them as shown by the constant increase in players and funding.

    If making a game at this scale and all these features was easy someone else would have made it by now.

    If Ubisoft and Bethesda can spend 10+ years working on BeyondGood&Evil 2 and Starfield respectively with very little to show for why would you berate a crowdfunded studio for taking just as long but showcasing detailed development reports along the way...

    Oh and ignore the nonsense of Star Marine being "another" game or being "abandoned".

    It's a training module for fps battles just like Arena Comander is for flying, dogfighting and racing.

    It's been updated ever since it was added with new weapon loadouts and recently a new map.



    How many games does Rockstar make?  Same with Ubisoft? CIG HAS NOT PRODUCED ANYTHING BUT A TECH DEMO. When CIG comes out with a game you can actually buy, then compare. As of now, they are an also-ran.


  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited July 2020
    My point exactly.

    If studios like Ubisoft and Rockstar who have been in the business for decades and have released hundreds of titles with thousands of devs and billions of dollars STILL can take 8+ years developing their games why should a newer company with less experience, ressources and money be berated for taking its time lol

    Look up the defenition of tech demo and you'll realise how ignorant you look.

    You can buy it since 2012, you can play it since 2013. It's relesead but not finished and as a true alpha build it's playable despite having it's share of bugs and performance hurdles. 

    Denying that you can buy it and play it right now like any other early access or crowdfunded mmo in alpha is just being blind for the sake of hating on the game.


    jmlane223
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    Without all the curlicues and obfuscation, someone else's bad management excuses CIG's bad management.  




    botrytisalkarionlog

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    Without all the curlicues and obfuscation, someone else's bad management excuses CIG's bad management. 
    Why does it have to be bad management? Some books take longer than others, some movies take longer than others, some games take longer than others, some paintings take longer than others, some music albums take longer than others. Why is it so hard to understand that making crowdfunded games of this ambition, scale and complexity will always involve a lot of trial and error and therefore will take longer.

    jmlane223alkarionlog
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