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Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia

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  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    Dullahan said:

    Here's the big picture.  Here is dealing with the here and now.  Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia.

    Stormhaven studios HAS A GAME.  Anyone can play it !

    Visionary Realms refuses to acknowledge progress, let alone a game. 

    To distract this FACT by posting unrelated slander from a single post on a forum is "Fake News". It has nothing to do with the fact…… yet it works because people are running with the "Fake News" that side tracts the fact one has a game and the other one has yet to prove anything.

     

    Pantheon,

    Where are the cities and towns, where is the liner game play, where are the level 1's.  All we have are loaded up files that "chosen" players are logged into…. All random, nothing liner. 

    I have yet to have anyone challenge this as I mentioned this several times. This is also "fake news" when people ignore a challenge. 


    Stormhaven studios has it's development flaws, but HONEST.

    Visionary Realms is evasive to max level, borderline DISHONEST.


    Why is it people with the biggest "truth" hangups are always the most dishonest?

    Visionary Realms refused nothing of the sort. They provide progress reports on a monthly basis in text and video formats.

    You know good and well Pantheon has a working client that people have played. There are dozens of publicly available videos, some even showing the launching of the game and at least a portion of it in a playable state.

    If that isn't enough for you, you're within your right to think and say so. Lets just not pretend that because you don't like it, that it doesn't exist.
    Yeah, they have been good about communicating the tasks they are working on, I don't fault them for that. My only issue with them is communicating what those tasks add up to (ie estimates on completions to various goals such as Alpha, Beta, etc...).

    If they miss a estimate, that doesn't bother me. Things happen, but if they can never give an estimate because they can never achieve its goal, well... that does not bode well for them. 
    YashaX
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    edited May 2020
    Tanist said:
    What about the arrogance of the poster? 
    ...
    I understand your frustration and I share it and agree with lots of your points. But the expectations I have from a random internet dude are not the same as those I have from a studio lead, full stop.

    We are both repeating ourselves at this point. Feel free to make a separate thread and I can join if you wish, for the sake of the sanity of the other readers. Otherwise I will stop here regarding this tangent. I agree with @delete5230 on this single thing alone, I should not have started it, it is not as relevant as I initially felt to this thread - apologies to both.

    Don't misunderstand me on this though Delete, my opinion re Pantheon vs SoL in my last answer to you (the big picture) still stands  >:)
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    A demo ?
    I played it well over 8 months ago, It was a fairly flushed out LARGE ZONE. Larger than I could cover in my three days of playing and doing several runs with other players and developers.  They took us on several tours, often in different directions.... Did I mention that was over 8 months ago.
    According to this, ArenaNet sold me 25 games in the price of 1 with GW2. Amazing! I feel I am ripping them off.
  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    tzervo said:
    Tanist said:
    What about the arrogance of the poster? 
    ...
    I understand your frustration and I share it and agree with lots of your points. But the expectations I have from a random internet dude are not the same as those I have from a studio lead, full stop.

    We are both repeating ourselves at this point. Feel free to make a separate thread and I can join if you wish, for the sake of the sanity of the other readers. Otherwise I will stop here regarding this tangent. I agree with @delete5230 on this single thing alone, I should not have started it, it is not as relevant as I initially felt to this thread - apologies to both.

    Don't misunderstand me on this though Delete, my opinion re Pantheon vs SoL in my last answer to you (the big picture) still stands  >:)
    Fair enough, and this is my final response to you concerning this.

    I understand the need to "be above" certain behaviors, but there is also a point where... well.. to be plain and simple, you do not suffer idiots and honestly, I think those who seek out a game that obviously is not of their focus of play and complain (in that thread, troll) the developer over development concepts which are obviously settled, is... well... being an idiot and there comes a point where letting the idiot think they have a point is harmful (case in point, games today). 

    So, I do understand your perspective of it, I disagree and in fact that is why I respect SoL and its developers more as they are not afraid to call idiots... idiots, which means they put their ideals on development above pandering to the cash crowd. 
    YashaX
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,544
    edited May 2020
    Tanist said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    YashaX said:
    Tanist said:
    YashaX said:
    From the mouth of the big meanie himself in January 2016:

    Renfail said:
    A: It's Saga of Lucimia. Your title spelled it wrong. 

    B: It's not a PVP game. Your thread title...roger that, you edited it :) 

    C: Our pre-order store is old news. It's been open since September of 2015. 

    D : Volume I is the base game, launching with 30+ zones and dungeons, and around 18-24 months of content for the average player. Volumes 2, 3, and 4 are pre-planned expansions, releasing every couple of years after the first title launches in December of 2017. 

    E: Yep, we're still firm to our guns. If you don't care for what we're doing, don't play our game. We find it incredibly amusing that people who are apparently so disinterested in what we're doing, or the fact that we're sharing our progress in all its glory (from the ugly, beginning stages with bugs all the way through to launch), continue to drive traffic to our site and help us build up our following. 

    Thanks for the traffic! Can't wait to show you guys what we've been working on over the holidays. Stay tuned for the next build later this Spring!
    Where is the source link?
    Google is your friend:

    (hint)  "releasing every couple of years after the first title launches in December of 2017"
    That is not how it works. I am not going to do the work for you. You made the claim, you cut and pasted, surely you can provide the link? 

     
    Here, just for those too lazy to do their own research, Tim's own words from this 2015 thread on these very forums.

    (Special thanks to @bcbully who dredged this gem up back in March)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/439876/pantheon-and-or-saga-of-lucima-will-change-everything/p2
    Why is asking that someone provide the link to see the proper context (and not some text) becoming a fanboi? Seriously, die on that hill if you like, but it is a very silly point to stand on.

    Your idea of who is lazy is warped. It is customary for the one making the claim to provide the supporting information. The poster coming in, making a claim, then telling someone to Google it is lazy and backwards in such things. It is a fallacious form of discussion "Make claim, demand everyone prove them wrong". I used to fall for that approach, but I got tired of chasing to provide people support for their own arguments. If the poster can not be bothered to support their own argument, they can't be bothered to be taken seriously. 

    Now, as for the link.

    I see he did say that his release date was mentioned as 2017. I do find it odd they would give such a date being that early into development (though as I stated previously, I have not delved deep into their development). That was naive of him, and I understand why people are dismissive. 

    In terms of him being combative with the posters, that one I completely understand. That thread from the video is perfect evidence of imbeciles who threw tantrums on certain game design decisions all the while claiming they won't play the game. Those kids are exactly why mainstream MMOs are the way they are. 

    So what you call being a fan boi, is merely finding common agreement with Tim on the idiots in gaming today. What Tim seeks, I can connect with, have argued his points myself among my friends. 

    I stand by what I said about their development professionalism and while it doesn't excuse the comments about release being missed, I would have to say that they are still moving on, making progress and have been completely open about their development. 


    Wow, in the same thread Refail said they started 18 months prior to going public on the mmorpg forums. 

    SoL has been in development since 2013. 7 years and in still “Alpha stage 3” whatever the hell that means...

    edit- oh and a new launch date of 4th qt 2021. You do the math.
    YashaX
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,739
    edited May 2020
    tzervo said:
    A demo ?
    I played it well over 8 months ago, It was a fairly flushed out LARGE ZONE. Larger than I could cover in my three days of playing and doing several runs with other players and developers.  They took us on several tours, often in different directions.... Did I mention that was over 8 months ago.
    According to this, ArenaNet sold me 25 games in the price of 1 with GW2. Amazing! I feel I am ripping them off.
    A HUGE ZONE..... over 8 months ago. 

    As large as at least half of the Human, Charr, Sylvari or Norn. 

    A totally different game where stepping out of the Inn could kill you.  Very scary with day and night cycles.  You can live in this zone forever..... 8 months ago.... 2021 release date sounds fitting... easily !


    I think I payed like $20 to play it, anyone can.. they have the balls to let people see their accomplishments.
    tzervo
  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    bcbully said:
    Tanist said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    YashaX said:
    Tanist said:
    YashaX said:
    From the mouth of the big meanie himself in January 2016:

    Renfail said:
    A: It's Saga of Lucimia. Your title spelled it wrong. 

    B: It's not a PVP game. Your thread title...roger that, you edited it :) 

    C: Our pre-order store is old news. It's been open since September of 2015. 

    D : Volume I is the base game, launching with 30+ zones and dungeons, and around 18-24 months of content for the average player. Volumes 2, 3, and 4 are pre-planned expansions, releasing every couple of years after the first title launches in December of 2017. 

    E: Yep, we're still firm to our guns. If you don't care for what we're doing, don't play our game. We find it incredibly amusing that people who are apparently so disinterested in what we're doing, or the fact that we're sharing our progress in all its glory (from the ugly, beginning stages with bugs all the way through to launch), continue to drive traffic to our site and help us build up our following. 

    Thanks for the traffic! Can't wait to show you guys what we've been working on over the holidays. Stay tuned for the next build later this Spring!
    Where is the source link?
    Google is your friend:

    (hint)  "releasing every couple of years after the first title launches in December of 2017"
    That is not how it works. I am not going to do the work for you. You made the claim, you cut and pasted, surely you can provide the link? 

     
    Here, just for those too lazy to do their own research, Tim's own words from this 2015 thread on these very forums.

    (Special thanks to @bcbully who dredged this gem up back in March)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/439876/pantheon-and-or-saga-of-lucima-will-change-everything/p2
    Why is asking that someone provide the link to see the proper context (and not some text) becoming a fanboi? Seriously, die on that hill if you like, but it is a very silly point to stand on.

    Your idea of who is lazy is warped. It is customary for the one making the claim to provide the supporting information. The poster coming in, making a claim, then telling someone to Google it is lazy and backwards in such things. It is a fallacious form of discussion "Make claim, demand everyone prove them wrong". I used to fall for that approach, but I got tired of chasing to provide people support for their own arguments. If the poster can not be bothered to support their own argument, they can't be bothered to be taken seriously. 

    Now, as for the link.

    I see he did say that his release date was mentioned as 2017. I do find it odd they would give such a date being that early into development (though as I stated previously, I have not delved deep into their development). That was naive of him, and I understand why people are dismissive. 

    In terms of him being combative with the posters, that one I completely understand. That thread from the video is perfect evidence of imbeciles who threw tantrums on certain game design decisions all the while claiming they won't play the game. Those kids are exactly why mainstream MMOs are the way they are. 

    So what you call being a fan boi, is merely finding common agreement with Tim on the idiots in gaming today. What Tim seeks, I can connect with, have argued his points myself among my friends. 

    I stand by what I said about their development professionalism and while it doesn't excuse the comments about release being missed, I would have to say that they are still moving on, making progress and have been completely open about their development. 


    Wow, in the same thread Refail said they started 18 months prior to going public on the mmorpg forums. 

    SoL has been in development since 2013. 7 years and in still “Alpha stage 3” whatever the hell that means...

    edit- oh and a new launch date of 4th qt 2021. You do the math.
    So, what is your point as it concerns this thread and Pantheon? 


    We know SoL is being developed by "new" developers (ie novices to the industry). We also know they have been VERY transparent. They have missed some dates... yep... so what? They continue to be transparent (though they are going dark recently as they say to focus on the development, yet only in terms of advertising to sites like these). 

    Contrast that with Pantheon who ALSO has made claims on release dates and have missed them. 


    So what is your point?

    Everything you could accuse SoL of, Pantheon has done... Yet.. it CAN NOT be contested that SoL has been "closed" in their development. 


    So, again... I say..  So What? What is your point? 

    Please explain. 
    YashaX
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,544
    edited May 2020
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    Tanist said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    YashaX said:
    Tanist said:
    YashaX said:
    From the mouth of the big meanie himself in January 2016:

    Renfail said:
    A: It's Saga of Lucimia. Your title spelled it wrong. 

    B: It's not a PVP game. Your thread title...roger that, you edited it :) 

    C: Our pre-order store is old news. It's been open since September of 2015. 

    D : Volume I is the base game, launching with 30+ zones and dungeons, and around 18-24 months of content for the average player. Volumes 2, 3, and 4 are pre-planned expansions, releasing every couple of years after the first title launches in December of 2017. 

    E: Yep, we're still firm to our guns. If you don't care for what we're doing, don't play our game. We find it incredibly amusing that people who are apparently so disinterested in what we're doing, or the fact that we're sharing our progress in all its glory (from the ugly, beginning stages with bugs all the way through to launch), continue to drive traffic to our site and help us build up our following. 

    Thanks for the traffic! Can't wait to show you guys what we've been working on over the holidays. Stay tuned for the next build later this Spring!
    Where is the source link?
    Google is your friend:

    (hint)  "releasing every couple of years after the first title launches in December of 2017"
    That is not how it works. I am not going to do the work for you. You made the claim, you cut and pasted, surely you can provide the link? 

     
    Here, just for those too lazy to do their own research, Tim's own words from this 2015 thread on these very forums.

    (Special thanks to @bcbully who dredged this gem up back in March)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/439876/pantheon-and-or-saga-of-lucima-will-change-everything/p2
    Why is asking that someone provide the link to see the proper context (and not some text) becoming a fanboi? Seriously, die on that hill if you like, but it is a very silly point to stand on.

    Your idea of who is lazy is warped. It is customary for the one making the claim to provide the supporting information. The poster coming in, making a claim, then telling someone to Google it is lazy and backwards in such things. It is a fallacious form of discussion "Make claim, demand everyone prove them wrong". I used to fall for that approach, but I got tired of chasing to provide people support for their own arguments. If the poster can not be bothered to support their own argument, they can't be bothered to be taken seriously. 

    Now, as for the link.

    I see he did say that his release date was mentioned as 2017. I do find it odd they would give such a date being that early into development (though as I stated previously, I have not delved deep into their development). That was naive of him, and I understand why people are dismissive. 

    In terms of him being combative with the posters, that one I completely understand. That thread from the video is perfect evidence of imbeciles who threw tantrums on certain game design decisions all the while claiming they won't play the game. Those kids are exactly why mainstream MMOs are the way they are. 

    So what you call being a fan boi, is merely finding common agreement with Tim on the idiots in gaming today. What Tim seeks, I can connect with, have argued his points myself among my friends. 

    I stand by what I said about their development professionalism and while it doesn't excuse the comments about release being missed, I would have to say that they are still moving on, making progress and have been completely open about their development. 


    Wow, in the same thread Refail said they started 18 months prior to going public on the mmorpg forums. 

    SoL has been in development since 2013. 7 years and in still “Alpha stage 3” whatever the hell that means...

    edit- oh and a new launch date of 4th qt 2021. You do the math.
    So, what is your point as it concerns this thread and Pantheon? 


    We know SoL is being developed by "new" developers (ie novices to the industry). We also know they have been VERY transparent. They have missed some dates... yep... so what? They continue to be transparent (though they are going dark recently as they say to focus on the development, yet only in terms of advertising to sites like these). 

    Contrast that with Pantheon who ALSO has made claims on release dates and have missed them. 


    So what is your point?

    Everything you could accuse SoL of, Pantheon has done... Yet.. it CAN NOT be contested that SoL has been "closed" in their development. 


    So, again... I say..  So What? What is your point? 

    Please explain. 
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    Post edited by bcbully on
    borghive49tzervo
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,795
    A HUGE ZONE..... over 8 months ago. 

    As large as at least half of the Human, Charr, Sylvari or Norn. 

    A totally different game where stepping out of the Inn could kill you.  Very scary with day and night cycles.  You can live in this zone forever..... 8 months ago.... 2021 release date sounds fitting... easily !


    I think I payed like $20 to play it, anyone can.. they have the balls to let people see their accomplishments.
    I give you this, your enthusiasm and gusto is way better at promoting their game than their guy xD

    But I will check their balls when they grow bigger and they release ;)
    delete5230bcbullyYashaX
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,023
    Considering all we actually know, the only thing I can come up with that sounds logical is that delete is angry that he can't spend as little as $20 to play pantheon in alpha/pre-alpha/whatever like he can with SoL, so there for the only thing he can deduce is that there is no game. When in reality most games don't let you see anything before beta (REAL beta, not the fake alpha/beta crap AAA companies have been lying about lately).

    If you remove that one aspect the only thing I can think of is that he's trying very hard to discredit Pantheon and promote SoL since they cater to a very similar player base.

    I think he's just an SoL shill, tbh, and comes up with as many excuses to attempt to sabotage Pantheon as he can.
    Sovrathbcbullydcutbi001
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,544
    Considering all we actually know, the only thing I can come up with that sounds logical is that delete is angry that he can't spend as little as $20 to play pantheon in alpha/pre-alpha/whatever like he can with SoL, so there for the only thing he can deduce is that there is no game. When in reality most games don't let you see anything before beta (REAL beta, not the fake alpha/beta crap AAA companies have been lying about lately).

    If you remove that one aspect the only thing I can think of is that he's trying very hard to discredit Pantheon and promote SoL since they cater to a very similar player base.

    I think he's just an SoL shill, tbh, and comes up with as many excuses to attempt to sabotage Pantheon as he can.
    Nah he’s just conflicted and easily swayed. Check his post history.
    delete5230YashaX
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    I remember a few years ago when Delete would post a new excited Pantheon thread like every day, even if he didn't have anything coherent to say.

    I guess things change, just not the lack of coherence.
    bng28bcbullyIselinYashaXBeansnBreadAmatheWellspringdcutbi001


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,511
    Kyleran said:
    tzervo said:

    Here's the big picture.  Here is dealing with the here and now.  Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia.

    Stormhaven studios HAS A GAME.  Anyone can play it !

    Visionary Realms refuses to acknowledge progress, let alone a game. 

    SoL has a playable demo that you can test/try out. If this is what you consider a game then your bar is painfully low.

    Here is a bigger picture: That playable demo is very useful and relevant to backers, irrelevant to anyone else. In this sense, SoL is treating its backers way better than Pantheon (and gets bonus points for that) since they are its stakeholders and they are updated on its progress.

    For everyone else, both games are like Schroedinger's cat. They might be alive or not, and they are on equal grounds. Until one of them has the cojones to claim release and get it out of the box, either could end up dead or alive.
    A demo ?
    I played it well over 8 months ago, It was a fairly flushed out LARGE ZONE. Larger than I could cover in my three days of playing and doing several runs with other players and developers.  They took us on several tours, often in different directions.... Did I mention that was over 8 months ago.

    important:
    Bugs.... Not many !!....Infact here's the honest list I've encountered.

    - Bandits are waiting just outside the inn waiting for unsuspected players to exit killing most if not ready.... This caused a pileup of tombstones of dead players that prevented players from exiting the inn..... It was reported and fixed within the hour. 

    - Character creation made players decide on initial abilities that may haunt them throughout the game. To my knowledge at the time they were fixed and couldn't be changed. 

    - Game play and animation was flawless, HOWEVER keybindings had MUCH to be desired. I've seen other players that had hesitations in what they did, so it was not just me.

    - One complaint from another player after a long discussion was the healing ability didn't make sense and was very weak..... they wanted to be a healer. 

    - That's it !..... Everything fixable. 



    Did I mention this was 8 months ago ?

           
    Err....this info below comes from the SoL pledge page. (Emphasis theirs)
    ”Everything is under NDA.
    That means zero streaming, zero sharing of screenshots, and zero sharing of any information.”
    Ok then stick up for Pantheon that gives us NOTHING !
    /Wooooooooooossssssshhhhhhh


    Amathe

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    SovrathYashaX
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    YashaX
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,104
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 

    I don't believe for one second it's a scam. I do think they had a very rocky start, then finally put together a team but seemingly a team of mixed experience. I also wonder how long they worked until they were "full time."

    I've mentioned before speaking with Brad at a PAX East and I asked about other zones and mentioning one of the first zones they showed.

    Of the developers there made a comment that it took many iterations and probably needed at least one more. Then Brad turned to him and in a sort of father "I don't want to squash your enthusiasm but I know better" voice said "No, it's fine the way it is it doesn't need any more iterations.

    To me that was sort of telling. How much work became people tinkering, iterating over and over before it was realized that they weren't working quickly or efficiently?

    I don't know, I'm not a fly on the wall in the studio. Just was my impression.
    Amathetzervo
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,511
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    Par for the course but in Renfail's case I cut him some slack, he really was new to all of this, unlike some others that should have known better.
    tzervo

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    Par for the course but in Renfail's case I cut him some slack, he really was new to all of this, unlike some others that should have known better.
    I'm really just interested in squashing the silly misrepresentation that guy puts out.
    tzervo
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,099
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    Par for the course but in Renfail's case I cut him some slack, he really was new to all of this, unlike some others that should have known better.
    SoL is not in the same league as the others.  As far as I know, it's the only one where the main creators are doing it on their off-time and not drawing salaries.   They are also a team that is all openly new. 

    The money they have raised is minuscule.  Now they are not publishing numbers, but I would eat my hat if they raised anything close to a million from Crowdfunding.  (My actual guess is that it's closer to 100k than 1M)

    From what I see, it's really just a hobby that they are hoping can turn into a legitimate business. Hugely skeptical that this thing will successfully take flight, but I cut them a lot more slack than the other teams based on what I listed above.


    KyleranTanistdcutbi001

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    So? I am still waiting for some valid point on this. It is no secret they are not game developer professionals and this was their first venture. They have been pretty open with their entire process. 

    So again, what is your point? 
    bcbullyYashaX
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Tanist said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    So? I am still waiting for some valid point on this. It is no secret they are not game developer professionals and this was their first venture. They have been pretty open with their entire process. 

    So again, what is your point? 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    IselinKyleranbcbullyYashaXtzervo
  • achesomaachesoma Member RarePosts: 1,481
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    Par for the course but in Renfail's case I cut him some slack, he really was new to all of this, unlike some others that should have known better.
    SoL is not in the same league as the others.  As far as I know, it's the only one where the main creators are doing it on their off-time and not drawing salaries.   They are also a team that is all openly new. 

    The money they have raised is minuscule.  Now they are not publishing numbers, but I would eat my hat if they raised anything close to a million from Crowdfunding.  (My actual guess is that it's closer to 100k than 1M)

    From what I see, it's really just a hobby that they are hoping can turn into a legitimate business. Hugely skeptical that this thing will successfully take flight, but I cut them a lot more slack than the other teams based on what I listed above.


    SoL isn’t crowdfunded. 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,099
    achesoma said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    Par for the course but in Renfail's case I cut him some slack, he really was new to all of this, unlike some others that should have known better.
    SoL is not in the same league as the others.  As far as I know, it's the only one where the main creators are doing it on their off-time and not drawing salaries.   They are also a team that is all openly new. 

    The money they have raised is minuscule.  Now they are not publishing numbers, but I would eat my hat if they raised anything close to a million from Crowdfunding.  (My actual guess is that it's closer to 100k than 1M)

    From what I see, it's really just a hobby that they are hoping can turn into a legitimate business. Hugely skeptical that this thing will successfully take flight, but I cut them a lot more slack than the other teams based on what I listed above.


    SoL isn’t crowdfunded. 
    You want to reconsider that statement? Or explain?
    tzervo

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    edited May 2020
    Sovrath said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 

    I don't believe for one second it's a scam. I do think they had a very rocky start, then finally put together a team but seemingly a team of mixed experience. I also wonder how long they worked until they were "full time."

    I've mentioned before speaking with Brad at a PAX East and I asked about other zones and mentioning one of the first zones they showed.

    Of the developers there made a comment that it took many iterations and probably needed at least one more. Then Brad turned to him and in a sort of father "I don't want to squash your enthusiasm but I know better" voice said "No, it's fine the way it is it doesn't need any more iterations.

    To me that was sort of telling. How much work became people tinkering, iterating over and over before it was realized that they weren't working quickly or efficiently?

    I don't know, I'm not a fly on the wall in the studio. Just was my impression.

    Well, from what I have read, they have been quite transparent about their development process. I am sure one could find some information on various issues they had early on. I do know they mentioned that they were working on the game part time (I think the Stage two Alpha said that they have had anywhere from 10-20 people working at any time and it was all without pay, after their main jobs). It also states they began officially in 2014. 


    Design paralysis is a major problem in software development, which is why it is paramount that the developers follow a solid development structure and spend the appropriate time in their design/requirements phase. It is why I really dislike development with more modern less structured development processes. I have seen them often do more harm than good, especially in various game development projects. 

    I think that SoL started out thinking this would be a lot easier than they expected and so became overly confident in their dates. From what I have seen so far, it appears they have made some advances in this area and became more structured. 

    Time will tell, and I wouldn't be surprised if they miss another date, but so far, as I said... I see them being quite a bit more organized and structured than I do Pantheon. 




  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    bcbully said:
    My point? Expect renfail to pop up around Christmas for another alpha “phase” presale.

    Same thing for years bro...
    I am not sure how missing one date validates the premise that the game is a scam. 

    If that is the case, then every game here is a scam. 
    It's not a scam.

    They missed the date by 3 years... so far.
    Par for the course but in Renfail's case I cut him some slack, he really was new to all of this, unlike some others that should have known better.
    I'm really just interested in squashing the silly misrepresentation that guy puts out.
    Ah, a social justice warrior. Who woulda thunk it? 
    IselinYashaX
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