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Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia

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  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    If theirs a huge gap between releases and Saga of Lucima is first..... I think most of you old schoolers will be playing Sol, regardless of what you say now.

    I say this in a humble way..... Their is not much else to play and Sol is definitely Old School.


    A lot has changed since I played 8 months ago.  It was a VERY SIMPLE town that looked abandon dark and crud with only an active Inn.  If they add NPC's to this video, it will look alive....... Changes in 8 months shows they are working hard !
    I compromised for decades of mainstreaming of games, I continued to play them, watching them slowly turn into cash grabs and caterings to the "entertainment" crowd. 

    No more. I would rather not play at all then "compromise" again. More power to those who will, like I said, that feature is a deal breaker for me, I am no longer interested. /shrug
    So then, no more reason for you to comment on either of them either, right?

    I mean, seeing how neither is of interest and all.

    Naw, you'll be back.


    Exactly. 

    Bye
    AngryElf
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,339
    Iete5230 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    If theirs a huge gap between releases and Saga of Lucima is first..... I think most of you old schoolers will be playing Sol, regardless of what you say now.

    I say this in a humble way..... Their is not much else to play and Sol is definitely Old School.


    A lot has changed since I played 8 months ago.  It was a VERY SIMPLE town that looked abandon dark and crud with only an active Inn.  If they add NPC's to this video, it will look alive....... Changes in 8 months shows they are working hard !
    I compromised for decades of mainstreaming of games, I continued to play them, watching them slowly turn into cash grabs and caterings to the "entertainment" crowd. 

    No more. I would rather not play at all then "compromise" again. More power to those who will, like I said, that feature is a deal breaker for me, I am no longer interested. /shrug
    Uh oh... I anticipate @kyleran making a Watchman analogy!
    No, I reserve those for only when I refuse to compromise.


    Why are you even on this or any other forum ?

    I think not to long ago you mentioned Pantheon doesn't even interest you. 


    At least I like both, but don't believe in VR anymore. No confidence what so ever, but will play in in an instant if I can get beyond the bad coding it will defiantly have, bad launch and 5 years from now, if I'm alive !  
    Oh my.


    tzervoSovrath

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Kyleran said:
    Iete5230 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    If theirs a huge gap between releases and Saga of Lucima is first..... I think most of you old schoolers will be playing Sol, regardless of what you say now.

    I say this in a humble way..... Their is not much else to play and Sol is definitely Old School.


    A lot has changed since I played 8 months ago.  It was a VERY SIMPLE town that looked abandon dark and crud with only an active Inn.  If they add NPC's to this video, it will look alive....... Changes in 8 months shows they are working hard !
    I compromised for decades of mainstreaming of games, I continued to play them, watching them slowly turn into cash grabs and caterings to the "entertainment" crowd. 

    No more. I would rather not play at all then "compromise" again. More power to those who will, like I said, that feature is a deal breaker for me, I am no longer interested. /shrug
    Uh oh... I anticipate @kyleran making a Watchman analogy!
    No, I reserve those for only when I refuse to compromise.


    Why are you even on this or any other forum ?

    I think not to long ago you mentioned Pantheon doesn't even interest you. 


    At least I like both, but don't believe in VR anymore. No confidence what so ever, but will play in in an instant if I can get beyond the bad coding it will defiantly have, bad launch and 5 years from now, if I'm alive !  
    Oh my.


    Your just bored aren't you. 
    tzervo
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited May 30
    Didn't watch that SoL video yet, but there are other ways to do corpse runs without stripping the player of all their gear. I don't feel like this needs to be a mandatory feature, as long as death is punishing enough that players respect the environment and progress is lost.

    EverQuest death penalty just happened to work, because the game world was very populated and helping people was the norm. Without that population and community-minded culture, a player losing all their items is not viable.

    Stormhaven probably realized that the culture and population of EQ may not be present at all times in their game.

    My opinion on corpse runs is that you should have to do them. I think if your carried inventory at least is lost, you will not be able to avoid it. Add significant experience loss, and you will want to find a way to restore that as well. I'm not against losing your worn equipment, but I don't think it needs to happen 100% in all scenarios. It could scale for instance, possibly happen in dungeons, but not the overworld. Risk vs reward.

    delete5230


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    Tanist said:
    Kyleran said:
    Tanist said:
    Well, I have lost interest with SoL after watching Stage 3 Alpha footage. 




    Basically, there is no longer the traditional naked corpse run similar to EQ. When you die, you keep everything on you except your inventory (ie bag items). So you keep all your equipped gear and a bag is left where you died that contains those inventory items. 

    There is also some negatives like a debuff that needs to be healed at a camp, and also you are unable to sell, trade, etc... until you either... go back and get your bag of inventory or "choose" to dismiss your inventory. You can still however continue to gain in skills, do combat, etc...


    I don't care for this as it removes all danger from the game. A game that has no experience and has such a light penalty has no real... fear in play. With this system, I would gear up (or rather go with empty/worthless inventory) when I was exploring, or trying dangerous things knowing I can easily dismiss the need to recover.

    Exploration just got boring to me. All the fear I had in EQ, the danger in exploring, the risk vs reward. Yeah, not so much.

    So, this game is also out for me. Thankfully I didn't spend any money on it. 


    It appears Pantheon may have more of a death penalty than SoL, providing they stick to naked corpse runs, but honestly.. few players today desire that, guess I am out of time and gaming in this genre is really dead to me. /shrug

    Oh well. 

    So, what you are indirectly saying is not having naked corpse runs is a ”poor design decision?" Lulz.

    Your name isn't Harvey by chance?




     I didn't throw a tantrum, call the developer a poor designer and lament about how I ma being attacked if he doesn't worship my way of thinking?

    Every post you write sounds like you are throwing a tantrum.
    tzervoKyleranIselinBeansnBreadlahnmirbcbullyWellspringChildoftheShadowsAmatheSensai
    ....
  • dcutbi001dcutbi001 Member UncommonPosts: 49
    edited June 2
    Dullahan said:
    Didn't watch that SoL video yet, but there are other ways to do corpse runs without stripping the player of all their gear. I don't feel like this needs to be a mandatory feature, as long as death is punishing enough that players respect the environment and progress is lost.

    EverQuest death penalty just happened to work, because the game world was very populated and helping people was the norm. Without that population and community-minded culture, a player losing all their items is not viable.

    Stormhaven probably realized that the culture and population of EQ may not be present at all times in their game.

    My opinion on corpse runs is that you should have to do them. I think if your carried inventory at least is lost, you will not be able to avoid it. Add significant experience loss, and you will want to find a way to restore that as well. I'm not against losing your worn equipment, but I don't think it needs to happen 100% in all scenarios. It could scale for instance, possibly happen in dungeons, but not the overworld. Risk vs reward.

    I played the open weekend for backers back in April and I had a fairly strong dislike for the "drop your bag" system of being "knocked unconscious" (they don't call it death).

    In some ways the bag recovery system mimics the corpse runs from EQ, but I found it worse in at least two major ways. The first problem was touched on above, if you have empty bags you can die with relatively low-risk while exploring. The only real punishment you would incur from being knocked unconscious is your health and energy are both "wounded" lowering their effective maximum by 25%. In order to clear the wounds, you were required to literally sit at a campfire in town for about 10 minutes while a campfire healed the wounds. That system just felt like a direct waste of my time but was more or less an annoying inconvenience than anything too punishing. The second issue I see with this system is there is no "experience", as most people have come to understand that term, in SoL since there are no standard character levels powered by exp so when you die you can't lose experience. Without the loss of experience and with correct inventory management before you set out to explore you're looking at a worst-case scenario of having to sit by a campfire for about 10 minutes should you die.  

    I am a backer of both Pantheon and SoL and I want both games to succeed, but based on my experience with both they are both very different games. I could go more in-depth with a fairly long list of fairly major issues I had while playing SoL, but I'm not here to beat up on a game still in development so I'll just leave it at that. 


    quick edit: I'm a high-level backer of Pantheon and I follow it closely, and, while I'll admit the lack of clear dates being communicated to us over the last 17 months has been *really* frustrating, Pantheon feels more like a much deeper game, in most ways, that is much further in development. I expect SoL to make some huge strides in the months to come, but as it stands now the game still feels extremely basic and rough. 
    Post edited by dcutbi001 on
    tzervo
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,895
    edited June 2
    dcutbi001 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Didn't watch that SoL video yet, but there are other ways to do corpse runs without stripping the player of all their gear. I don't feel like this needs to be a mandatory feature, as long as death is punishing enough that players respect the environment and progress is lost.

    EverQuest death penalty just happened to work, because the game world was very populated and helping people was the norm. Without that population and community-minded culture, a player losing all their items is not viable.

    Stormhaven probably realized that the culture and population of EQ may not be present at all times in their game.

    My opinion on corpse runs is that you should have to do them. I think if your carried inventory at least is lost, you will not be able to avoid it. Add significant experience loss, and you will want to find a way to restore that as well. I'm not against losing your worn equipment, but I don't think it needs to happen 100% in all scenarios. It could scale for instance, possibly happen in dungeons, but not the overworld. Risk vs reward.

    I played the open weekend for backers back in April and I had a fairly strong dislike for the "drop your bag" system of being "knocked unconscious" (they don't call it death).

    In some ways the bag recovery system mimics the corpse runs from EQ, but I found it worse in at least two major ways. The first problem was touched on above, if you have empty bags you can die with relatively low-risk while exploring. The only real punishment you would incur from being knocked unconscious is your health and energy are both "wounded" lowering their effective maximum by 25%. In order to clear the wounds, you were required to literally sit at a campfire in town for about 10 minutes while a campfire healed the wounds. That system just felt like a direct waste of my time but was more or less an annoying inconvenience than anything too punishing. The second issue I see with this system is there is no "experience", as most people have come to understand that term, in SoL since there are no "levels" so when you die you can't lose experience. Without the loss of experience and with correct inventory management before you set out to explore you're looking at a worst-case scenario of having to sit by a campfire for about 10 minutes should you die.  

    I am a backer of both Pantheon and SoL and I want both games to succeed, but based on my experience with both they are both very different games from one another. I could go more in-depth with a fairly long list of fairly major issues I had while playing SoL, but I'm not here to beat up on a game still in development so I'll just leave it at that. 

    The campfire thing sounds like it was inspired by the swg entertainer/stat loss system. Not entirely bad, but without the need for other players to regenerate seems less enticing. 
    Post edited by ChildoftheShadows on
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,336
    Death penalty I want: ahh craaaaaaaaaap!

    Death penalty I don't want: darn

    While I like the EQ system, it doesn't need to be that one so long as when I enter a new area, I am filled apprehension because getting killed would major suck.
    kitaradSovrathtzervoblueturtle13

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Amathe said:
    Death penalty I want: ahh craaaaaaaaaap!

    Death penalty I don't want: darn

    While I like the EQ system, it doesn't need to be that one so long as when I enter a new area, I am filled apprehension because getting killed would major suck.
    As I get older I don't like that apprehension feeling of loosing it all.  This is unrelated to a challenge, I still like that.

    It's pretty bad when your more scared of a video game than Real life :|   


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,336
    In EQ I lost my corpse at level 6 and never found it. Lost my first set of leather armor with it. I was a noob obviously. But that was the only time that ever happened.

    None of my friends lost their corpse permanently. Or anyone I knew. There were ways to get help locating and retreiving corpses. People would help you out. Especially if you paid them.

    So if someone thinks EQ was a game where you lost your corpse and gear all the time, it wasn't. Also, your gear stayed with your corpse when you died. You just had to go get it. And you could wear back up gear on the way. You didn't have to go "naked." 

    Some of what is reported about EQ is true, and some is exaggeration and myth.
    Kyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • dcutbi001dcutbi001 Member UncommonPosts: 49
    dcutbi001 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Didn't watch that SoL video yet, but there are other ways to do corpse runs without stripping the player of all their gear. I don't feel like this needs to be a mandatory feature, as long as death is punishing enough that players respect the environment and progress is lost.

    EverQuest death penalty just happened to work, because the game world was very populated and helping people was the norm. Without that population and community-minded culture, a player losing all their items is not viable.

    Stormhaven probably realized that the culture and population of EQ may not be present at all times in their game.

    My opinion on corpse runs is that you should have to do them. I think if your carried inventory at least is lost, you will not be able to avoid it. Add significant experience loss, and you will want to find a way to restore that as well. I'm not against losing your worn equipment, but I don't think it needs to happen 100% in all scenarios. It could scale for instance, possibly happen in dungeons, but not the overworld. Risk vs reward.

    I played the open weekend for backers back in April and I had a fairly strong dislike for the "drop your bag" system of being "knocked unconscious" (they don't call it death).

    In some ways the bag recovery system mimics the corpse runs from EQ, but I found it worse in at least two major ways. The first problem was touched on above, if you have empty bags you can die with relatively low-risk while exploring. The only real punishment you would incur from being knocked unconscious is your health and energy are both "wounded" lowering their effective maximum by 25%. In order to clear the wounds, you were required to literally sit at a campfire in town for about 10 minutes while a campfire healed the wounds. That system just felt like a direct waste of my time but was more or less an annoying inconvenience than anything too punishing. The second issue I see with this system is there is no "experience", as most people have come to understand that term, in SoL since there are no "levels" so when you die you can't lose experience. Without the loss of experience and with correct inventory management before you set out to explore you're looking at a worst-case scenario of having to sit by a campfire for about 10 minutes should you die.  

    I am a backer of both Pantheon and SoL and I want both games to succeed, but based on my experience with both they are both very different games from one another. I could go more in-depth with a fairly long list of fairly major issues I had while playing SoL, but I'm not here to beat up on a game still in development so I'll just leave it at that. 

    The campfire thing sounds like it was inspired by the swg entertainer/stat loss system. Not entirely bad, but with the need for other players to regenerate seems less enticing. 
    As I understand it, that was the inspiration. 
  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    Amathe said:
    In EQ I lost my corpse at level 6 and never found it. Lost my first set of leather armor with it. I was a noob obviously. But that was the only time that ever happened.

    None of my friends lost their corpse permanently. Or anyone I knew. There were ways to get help locating and retreiving corpses. People would help you out. Especially if you paid them.

    So if someone thinks EQ was a game where you lost your corpse and gear all the time, it wasn't. Also, your gear stayed with your corpse when you died. You just had to go get it. And you could wear back up gear on the way. You didn't have to go "naked." 

    Some of what is reported about EQ is true, and some is exaggeration and myth.


     Well I think the naked corpse recover like EQ is fine as long as you have a way out if you are unable to recover your corpse due to a game bug. Early EQ didn't have this and this was a big issue to the people that experience it. Lucky for me another guild that had a lot of people online at the time ran into the same bug and finally sent in enough people at once to apparently crash and reset the zone so that I got my corpse back with a couple of hours to spare.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited June 3
    dcutbi001 said:

    I played the open weekend for backers back in April and I had a fairly strong dislike for the "drop your bag" system of being "knocked unconscious" (they don't call it death).

    In some ways the bag recovery system mimics the corpse runs from EQ, but I found it worse in at least two major ways. The first problem was touched on above, if you have empty bags you can die with relatively low-risk while exploring. The only real punishment you would incur from being knocked unconscious is your health and energy are both "wounded" lowering their effective maximum by 25%. In order to clear the wounds, you were required to literally sit at a campfire in town for about 10 minutes while a campfire healed the wounds. That system just felt like a direct waste of my time but was more or less an annoying inconvenience than anything too punishing. The second issue I see with this system is there is no "experience", as most people have come to understand that term, in SoL since there are no standard character levels powered by exp so when you die you can't lose experience. Without the loss of experience and with correct inventory management before you set out to explore you're looking at a worst-case scenario of having to sit by a campfire for about 10 minutes should you die.  

    I am a backer of both Pantheon and SoL and I want both games to succeed, but based on my experience with both they are both very different games. I could go more in-depth with a fairly long list of fairly major issues I had while playing SoL, but I'm not here to beat up on a game still in development so I'll just leave it at that. 


    quick edit: I'm a high-level backer of Pantheon and I follow it closely, and, while I'll admit the lack of clear dates being communicated to us over the last 17 months has been *really* frustrating, Pantheon feels more like a much deeper game, in most ways, that is much further in development. I expect SoL to make some huge strides in the months to come, but as it stands now the game still feels extremely basic and rough. 

    After watching the video that explains the Saga of Lucimia death penalty, I agree that it isn't sufficient.

    I don't really care for the character skill progression either, but that is a side issue. In regard to the death penalty though, without experience to lose, it doesn't carry much weight.

    Like I said, carried equipment drop could be enough, but that is assuming the player can and must carry a lot of extra gear like in EQ. It seems the inventory is extremely small and will not be the case. That means you have no experience loss, and very little to lose in your bag. Yes, most people will want to get it back, but it still needs more.

    If I were them, I would make bag retrieval more necessary. Something like a debuff that decreases the rate of skill gains for a number of in-game days might suffice.
    Kyleran


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited June 3
    Mylan12 said:
    Amathe said:
    In EQ I lost my corpse at level 6 and never found it. Lost my first set of leather armor with it. I was a noob obviously. But that was the only time that ever happened.

    None of my friends lost their corpse permanently. Or anyone I knew. There were ways to get help locating and retreiving corpses. People would help you out. Especially if you paid them.

    So if someone thinks EQ was a game where you lost your corpse and gear all the time, it wasn't. Also, your gear stayed with your corpse when you died. You just had to go get it. And you could wear back up gear on the way. You didn't have to go "naked." 

    Some of what is reported about EQ is true, and some is exaggeration and myth.


     Well I think the naked corpse recover like EQ is fine as long as you have a way out if you are unable to recover your corpse due to a game bug. Early EQ didn't have this and this was a big issue to the people that experience it. Lucky for me another guild that had a lot of people online at the time ran into the same bug and finally sent in enough people at once to apparently crash and reset the zone so that I got my corpse back with a couple of hours to spare.

    Early EQ had GMs if your corpse was bugged.

    Pantheon is going to give access to revive much earlier than EQ, and I think they should do the same for abilities like summon corpse (I feel like they said they planned to). Its good for them to get those helpful abilities that lead to player interaction early.

    That said, I still think death should be painful. EQ death penalty was only really hard when we were new to the game and low level. I don't remembering caring much about dying after level 40. Pantheon should fix that.

    I personally don't think there should ever be a 100% experience rez. There should be more than just a few minutes of your time to pay when you die in Pantheon. I think exp restore should cap around 50%. They can improve resurrect spells further by bringing the player back with more health or decreasing the negative rez effects.


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,895
    Since the game is skill progression rather than levels/experience, I wonder if there could still be skill loss, but make it taken from the top. meaning the highest ranked skills would lose XP until gone and trickle down from there.

    Regardless if a game is skill based or level based there is still experience to be made so it can still theoretically be taken away.
    Dullahan
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    edited June 3
    Dullahan said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Amathe said:
    In EQ I lost my corpse at level 6 and never found it. Lost my first set of leather armor with it. I was a noob obviously. But that was the only time that ever happened.

    None of my friends lost their corpse permanently. Or anyone I knew. There were ways to get help locating and retreiving corpses. People would help you out. Especially if you paid them.

    So if someone thinks EQ was a game where you lost your corpse and gear all the time, it wasn't. Also, your gear stayed with your corpse when you died. You just had to go get it. And you could wear back up gear on the way. You didn't have to go "naked." 

    Some of what is reported about EQ is true, and some is exaggeration and myth.


     Well I think the naked corpse recover like EQ is fine as long as you have a way out if you are unable to recover your corpse due to a game bug. Early EQ didn't have this and this was a big issue to the people that experience it. Lucky for me another guild that had a lot of people online at the time ran into the same bug and finally sent in enough people at once to apparently crash and reset the zone so that I got my corpse back with a couple of hours to spare.

    Early EQ had GMs if your corpse was bugged.

    Pantheon is going to give access to revive much earlier than EQ, and I think they should do the same for abilities like summon corpse (I feel like they said they planned to). Its good for them to get those helpful abilities that lead to player interaction early.

    That said, I still think death should be painful. EQ death penalty was only really hard when we were new to the game and low level. I don't remembering caring much about dying after level 40. Pantheon should fix that.

    I personally don't think there should ever be a 100% experience rez. There should be more than just a few minutes of your time to pay when you die in Pantheon. I think exp restore should cap around 50%. They can improve resurrect spells further by bringing the player back with more health or decreasing the negative rez effects.

    Yeah they had GMs but the GM had to actually do something like actually look into the issue and see  what is up and then address it.  Having GMs only works when the GMs are actually do their job.
    And yes I did contact a GM but he was too lazy to even look into the issue. From what little I got back from him, I think he was drunk.

    So having GMs is not good enough in a death system where you can lose everything.

    Until they raise the level the first time in EQ, they did not cap experience so experience lost at death didn't matter.
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