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If I've Gotten to Max Level in One Wow-Clone MMORPG, I've Gotten to Max Level in Them All

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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,346
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    If every person quit wow after they reach max level...  The game would be dead in 1 month. 

    Wow isn't dead in 1 month.  In fact it's been running for more than a decade.  And more sustainable than other mmorpg.

    So I don't know what the point of argument is...  Beside hearing constant whine about how you don't enjoy endgame in themepark mmorpg.


    When did I say that every player quit after they got to max level in WoW?

    Yes, there are a number of people who seem to be able to put up with repetitive grind.  I did put up with it for a while in Neverwinter, but I'm can longer put up with it.  There's a better way to design MMORPGs.
    I find sandbox game more grindy to be honest.

    Themepark game at least make things interesting.  They make new dungeon and new raids to keep it interesting.  In sandbox game you just do whatever grind there it is and it is even more mind boggling boring.

    And thing with interesting concept is...  It still won't keep people playing for the long haul.  Things are only interesting the first few times you try it.

    How many AAA Sandbox MMORPGs exist?  Btw, I do not consider BDO to be a Sandbox.  Sandpark is a way I've heard it described, though I'm not sure that's quite apt either.  Also a Themepark doesn't necessarily need to be On Rails.  Not if we imagine ourselves in an actual themepark.  On Rails is more of a description of a ride in a Themepark, such as a Rollercoaster.
    There are natural many repetition in mmorpg.  It doesn't' matter if it is themepark or sandbox.  It's just a way developer keep people from running out of content and quit.

    The grind is probably even worse in sandbox game because most don't get much budget.




    A sandbox could be designed with enough different options so that a player isn't forced to do the same thing over and over again repeatedly and consecutively.  Of course a character may need to do the same or similar things again.  People in real life have to do the same things again quite often.  But there are often enough different things to do in-between that life doesn't become totally monotonous. 
    Is there any mmorpg that you played that isn't grindy or you talking about purely theoretical it is possible.

    Practically you can play any mmorpg casually.  But there are always a subset of addicted gamer who play too much which run out of content easily.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,138
    edited May 21
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    If every person quit wow after they reach max level...  The game would be dead in 1 month. 

    Wow isn't dead in 1 month.  In fact it's been running for more than a decade.  And more sustainable than other mmorpg.

    So I don't know what the point of argument is...  Beside hearing constant whine about how you don't enjoy endgame in themepark mmorpg.


    When did I say that every player quit after they got to max level in WoW?

    Yes, there are a number of people who seem to be able to put up with repetitive grind.  I did put up with it for a while in Neverwinter, but I'm can longer put up with it.  There's a better way to design MMORPGs.
    I find sandbox game more grindy to be honest.

    Themepark game at least make things interesting.  They make new dungeon and new raids to keep it interesting.  In sandbox game you just do whatever grind there it is and it is even more mind boggling boring.

    And thing with interesting concept is...  It still won't keep people playing for the long haul.  Things are only interesting the first few times you try it.

    How many AAA Sandbox MMORPGs exist?  Btw, I do not consider BDO to be a Sandbox.  Sandpark is a way I've heard it described, though I'm not sure that's quite apt either.  Also a Themepark doesn't necessarily need to be On Rails.  Not if we imagine ourselves in an actual themepark.  On Rails is more of a description of a ride in a Themepark, such as a Rollercoaster.
    There are natural many repetition in mmorpg.  It doesn't' matter if it is themepark or sandbox.  It's just a way developer keep people from running out of content and quit.

    The grind is probably even worse in sandbox game because most don't get much budget.




    A sandbox could be designed with enough different options so that a player isn't forced to do the same thing over and over again repeatedly and consecutively.  Of course a character may need to do the same or similar things again.  People in real life have to do the same things again quite often.  But there are often enough different things to do in-between that life doesn't become totally monotonous. 
    Is there any mmorpg that you played that isn't grindy or you talking about purely theoretical it is possible.

    Practically you can play any mmorpg casually.  But there are always a subset of addicted gamer who play too much which run out of content easily.
    Totally Theological, he has some ideal game in his head that he thinks he will love.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,073
    Iselin said:
    WOW clones don't exist because Blizzard would sue the shit out of them if they did,

    Have games copied a lot of elements from successful games that preceded them? Of course. It happens every day in every gaming genre.

    The truly unique games with nothing noticeably copied from other games (if you copy things from obscure games not many will notice) are the rare unicorns.

    Calling theme parks with some things that resemble WOW a clone is just shallow and superficial dismissive gamer slang. LOTRO was called a WOW clone and so was ESO but if you actually play LOTRO, ESO and WOW you'd never be confused about which of the 3 you're playing.

    WoW Clone is just another way of saying WoW rip off or knock off and they do exist. In droves.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    WOW clones don't exist because Blizzard would sue the shit out of them if they did,

    Have games copied a lot of elements from successful games that preceded them? Of course. It happens every day in every gaming genre.

    The truly unique games with nothing noticeably copied from other games (if you copy things from obscure games not many will notice) are the rare unicorns.

    Calling theme parks with some things that resemble WOW a clone is just shallow and superficial dismissive gamer slang. LOTRO was called a WOW clone and so was ESO but if you actually play LOTRO, ESO and WOW you'd never be confused about which of the 3 you're playing.
    They don't have to be exactly the same.  If you played a side scroller game with a painter that grew after it hit a green pepper out of a floating box you might have a Mario clone. Sure you might spit fire instead of shoot fireballs after you eat jalapeno out of a box but does that really make it less of a clone?

    I am bored gamer at this point with all genre but MMORPG are the worst. I just can't tolerate doing another pointless task. No I don't want to deliver crap you have. No I don't want to kill shit and give you their bits. 20 hours of repeating this crap then end game on repeat of a few dungeons or raids. It's tired.
    Well if you hate cars you could also say that a Porsche is a VW clone. 4 wheels; internal combustion engine; you sit down and use a steering wheel gas pedal and brakes.

    If you like cars you'd laugh at the guy saying a Porsche is a VW clone. 
    You could.  It's more equivalent to all solidly built cars were the crossover trucks that all look similar.  Sure you can get different features and quality but at the end of the day you're still driving a crossover.  
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,073
    edited May 21

    I think I get where you are coming from with WoW Clone being misused. Much like Minecraft clone got used for anything with voxels, WoW clone got used for anything theme park/tab target.

    Thing is both terms can be valid and there are rip offs and knock offs that so closely resemble the thing they copied they could be clones.

    So I think there is a valid time to use the analogy and call something a X clone. However people also use it in a very hyperbolic way that does nothing to help the original meaning of a rip off/copy cat.

    I guess my question then becomes how much do you have to copy to be a clone?

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    edited May 21
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    WOW clones don't exist because Blizzard would sue the shit out of them if they did,

    Have games copied a lot of elements from successful games that preceded them? Of course. It happens every day in every gaming genre.

    The truly unique games with nothing noticeably copied from other games (if you copy things from obscure games not many will notice) are the rare unicorns.

    Calling theme parks with some things that resemble WOW a clone is just shallow and superficial dismissive gamer slang. LOTRO was called a WOW clone and so was ESO but if you actually play LOTRO, ESO and WOW you'd never be confused about which of the 3 you're playing.
    They don't have to be exactly the same.  If you played a side scroller game with a painter that grew after it hit a green pepper out of a floating box you might have a Mario clone. Sure you might spit fire instead of shoot fireballs after you eat jalapeno out of a box but does that really make it less of a clone?

    I am bored gamer at this point with all genre but MMORPG are the worst. I just can't tolerate doing another pointless task. No I don't want to deliver crap you have. No I don't want to kill shit and give you their bits. 20 hours of repeating this crap then end game on repeat of a few dungeons or raids. It's tired.
    Well if you hate cars you could also say that a Porsche is a VW clone. 4 wheels; internal combustion engine; you sit down and use a steering wheel gas pedal and brakes.

    If you like cars you'd laugh at the guy saying a Porsche is a VW clone. 
    You could.  It's more equivalent to all solidly built cars were the crossover trucks that all look similar.  Sure you can get different features and quality but at the end of the day you're still driving a crossover.  
    I drive a Honda truck. Never mind that it has the same chassis and powertrain as the Honda SUV. It ain't no stinking crossover. It's a manly man's vehicle. :)
    tzervo
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,073
    Hmm so I am really thinking about this one. More the got to max level part.

    So... let's see... more for reference on what I played than anything...

    UO - I think I got something like 97 mage, I never GMed it
    EQ - Max lvl wizard launch until Planes of Power
    WoW - Multiple max in classic and launch until end of Lich King
    City of Heroes - dozens of 50's
    GW 2 - multiple Max lvls
    GW 1 - multiple max lvls
    Secert World - 1 toon max
    SWTOR - 1 max lvl
    LOTRO - 1 max bard
    RIFT - 1 max

    Anyway the games list here is useless and I'm old so I tried a ton of other stuff as well. That's a sample off top of my head, probably forgetting something. So many alts not worthy mention lol.

    So my first observation with max level charaters in games in general comes in with City of Heroes.

    I made a send off video before it died.


    This being that the character creation options vastly affected how many characters I made. Much more than the type of game I was playing.

    This leads to the simple conclusion that I think how unique you can make a character has a colossal impact.






    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • tzervotzervo Member RarePosts: 324
    Iselin said:
    Well if you hate cars you could also say that a Porsche is a VW clone. 4 wheels; internal combustion engine; you sit down and use a steering wheel gas pedal and brakes.

    If you like cars you'd laugh at the guy saying a Porsche is a VW clone. 
    I like that analogy and I agree here - and that is the point I also wanted to make: deciding whether you like themeparks (cars) or not is one level higher than the details about combat or detailed mechanics (leather seats, VW vs Volvo etc). If you decide that you don't like themeparks (or cars), the details, however important for those that do, are irrelevant.

    Oh, and I would pick my sexy MT-09 over your manly Honda truck anytime xD
    Iselin
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    If every person quit wow after they reach max level...  The game would be dead in 1 month. 

    Wow isn't dead in 1 month.  In fact it's been running for more than a decade.  And more sustainable than other mmorpg.

    So I don't know what the point of argument is...  Beside hearing constant whine about how you don't enjoy endgame in themepark mmorpg.


    When did I say that every player quit after they got to max level in WoW?

    Yes, there are a number of people who seem to be able to put up with repetitive grind.  I did put up with it for a while in Neverwinter, but I'm can longer put up with it.  There's a better way to design MMORPGs.
    I find sandbox game more grindy to be honest.

    Themepark game at least make things interesting.  They make new dungeon and new raids to keep it interesting.  In sandbox game you just do whatever grind there it is and it is even more mind boggling boring.

    And thing with interesting concept is...  It still won't keep people playing for the long haul.  Things are only interesting the first few times you try it.

    How many AAA Sandbox MMORPGs exist?  Btw, I do not consider BDO to be a Sandbox.  Sandpark is a way I've heard it described, though I'm not sure that's quite apt either.  Also a Themepark doesn't necessarily need to be On Rails.  Not if we imagine ourselves in an actual themepark.  On Rails is more of a description of a ride in a Themepark, such as a Rollercoaster.
    There are natural many repetition in mmorpg.  It doesn't' matter if it is themepark or sandbox.  It's just a way developer keep people from running out of content and quit.

    The grind is probably even worse in sandbox game because most don't get much budget.




    A sandbox could be designed with enough different options so that a player isn't forced to do the same thing over and over again repeatedly and consecutively.  Of course a character may need to do the same or similar things again.  People in real life have to do the same things again quite often.  But there are often enough different things to do in-between that life doesn't become totally monotonous. 
    Is there any mmorpg that you played that isn't grindy or you talking about purely theoretical it is possible.

    Practically you can play any mmorpg casually.  But there are always a subset of addicted gamer who play too much which run out of content easily.

    I think my ideal PVP rule set would follow very similar to Eve Online, but not in space. I like Eve's implementation because it allows for kills to occur anywhere, but not without instant penalty on the aggressor in high security areas. You lose most if not all your equipment depending on your preparation and you lose alignment that is (or was) very time consuming to get back.

    I would take it a step further and split standing into each of the factions. Something along the lines of EQs faction depth would be incredible. Your faction standing would be affected by your actions toward your faction or their allies. Positive faction standing would be acquired only through missions/tasks or killing faction enemy npc's only. That way there's no farming standing on an alt.

    The lawless areas would not prevent you from losing faction standing, but there would be no policing. So if you killed someone from your own faction you don't die, but you lose the ability to return home. You also lose out on any faction bonuses and benefits and must spend copious amounts of effort/time to either recoup your faction standing or even longer to switch to another faction.

    The primary focus of this would be faction based warfare but allow the freedom for people to become pirates if they so choose. 

    Opposing factions would be considered outlaws within your faction area and just like in Eve the standing of the area they are in would determine the level of protection faction players would have and vice versa allowing the possibility for some areas to be infiltrated and attacked while others are virtually impossible to enter. This gives plenty of safety for people to run missions, farm, collect goods, etc.

    There definitely needs to be some consideration into faction balancing, but that's probably another discussion entirely.

    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,346
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.
    Kyleran
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    AAAMEOW said:
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.

    I want to target a specific demographic - Intelligent people who would like to play a decent MMORPG.  Maybe even a good or great MMORPG. 
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,138
    AAAMEOW said:
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.

    I want to target a specific demographic - Intelligent people who would like to play a decent MMORPG.  Maybe even a good or great MMORPG. 
    Oh, it's looking to be Memorable, I'll give you that.

    I mean, I loved how some of your ideas mix, especially when you talked about wanting to put in a bounty system to curb PKing and Ganking, and other kinds of Trolling of other players, but also make it so that names are not shown, so that players need to ask each other what their names are, otherwise you have no idea who they are.

    So you are basically setting up a system where players can interact, even violently, from complete anonymity, and your plan to curb unwanted PvP is a bounty system.

    I am going to be honest, I would pay the sub just to read the forums on this game for the first month.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,988
    You made another thread?  But on this other thread, you said that would be your final thread:

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/488785/why-im-here-not-on-earth-on-mmorpg-com/p2
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Quizzical said:
    You made another thread?  But on this other thread, you said that would be your final thread:

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/488785/why-im-here-not-on-earth-on-mmorpg-com/p2

    Yes, I know.  It was a difficult decision, but I was forced to change my mind (or even break my word) because this topic was of such crucial importance to the fate of humanity.
    tzervo
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    Ungood said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.

    I want to target a specific demographic - Intelligent people who would like to play a decent MMORPG.  Maybe even a good or great MMORPG. 
    Oh, it's looking to be Memorable, I'll give you that.

    I mean, I loved how some of your ideas mix, especially when you talked about wanting to put in a bounty system to curb PKing and Ganking, and other kinds of Trolling of other players, but also make it so that names are not shown, so that players need to ask each other what their names are, otherwise you have no idea who they are.

    So you are basically setting up a system where players can interact, even violently, from complete anonymity, and your plan to curb unwanted PvP is a bounty system.

    I am going to be honest, I would pay the sub just to read the forums on this game for the first month.

    When the player's character gets killed, his or her deity reveals to him/her the name of his/her killer.  Which he or she remembers upon being raised from the dead.  Duh.  Isn't that obvious?

    C'mon, man, use your head.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,167
    edited May 21

    because he said he took 100 hours to get to max lvl when actually it takes tops 30 hours and that is if you don't rush


    also you guys forget games today is not about fun and bringing people together is to make a quick buck and milk players with cassino squemes, hence why most games are clones of each other giving or taking features


    However, in some of the older games, such as EQ2, it could take easily take a person 100+ hours to get to max level.

    Sadly, it seems that you are correct.  Most of these MMORPGs are not designed to be fun for the long term.  They're only designed to be fun enough initially to hook a player in and start spending money.


    My first character in Vanilla WOW took me 16 days played to reach level 60.

    My last character, a warrior I played totally fresh when Cataclysm launched took four days played....to like level 70 or 75 even.

    I was leveling so fast entire zones had to be skipped as I kept turning them gray before I could visit them.

    Lineage 2 at launch, played about 6 months, never got a character past level 56 as the upper level grind was brutal, especially trying to mostly solo a SR.
    Ancient_Exile

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,073

    I would say leveling speed is an absolutely key factor in this as well.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,138
    Ungood said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.

    I want to target a specific demographic - Intelligent people who would like to play a decent MMORPG.  Maybe even a good or great MMORPG. 
    Oh, it's looking to be Memorable, I'll give you that.

    I mean, I loved how some of your ideas mix, especially when you talked about wanting to put in a bounty system to curb PKing and Ganking, and other kinds of Trolling of other players, but also make it so that names are not shown, so that players need to ask each other what their names are, otherwise you have no idea who they are.

    So you are basically setting up a system where players can interact, even violently, from complete anonymity, and your plan to curb unwanted PvP is a bounty system.

    I am going to be honest, I would pay the sub just to read the forums on this game for the first month.

    When the player's character gets killed, his or her deity reveals to him/her the name of his/her killer.  Which he or she remembers upon being raised from the dead.  Duh.  Isn't that obvious?

    C'mon, man, use your head.
    Oh, how foolish of me not to know the "deities" of this game would reveal the name of someone's killer. I mean that is such the obvious solution to that problem.

    So what about the poor hunters? Will they need to go around asking people what their name is to decide if they can kill them or not?

    Obviously there would need to be a way to stop the PKer from lying, like maybe have the deities make their name float over their head, perhaps in red, just so there are no mistakes, after all I think you talked about wanting a system that people could not take advantage of or bypass.

    Loving this game more and more as time goes on, the forums alone would be the best part, might even watch some twitch just to see how this really works out.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.

    I want to target a specific demographic - Intelligent people who would like to play a decent MMORPG.  Maybe even a good or great MMORPG. 
    Oh, it's looking to be Memorable, I'll give you that.

    I mean, I loved how some of your ideas mix, especially when you talked about wanting to put in a bounty system to curb PKing and Ganking, and other kinds of Trolling of other players, but also make it so that names are not shown, so that players need to ask each other what their names are, otherwise you have no idea who they are.

    So you are basically setting up a system where players can interact, even violently, from complete anonymity, and your plan to curb unwanted PvP is a bounty system.

    I am going to be honest, I would pay the sub just to read the forums on this game for the first month.

    When the player's character gets killed, his or her deity reveals to him/her the name of his/her killer.  Which he or she remembers upon being raised from the dead.  Duh.  Isn't that obvious?

    C'mon, man, use your head.
    Oh, how foolish of me not to know the "deities" of this game would reveal the name of someone's killer. I mean that is such the obvious solution to that problem.

    So what about the poor hunters? Will they need to go around asking people what their name is to decide if they can kill them or not?

    Obviously there would need to be a way to stop the PKer from lying, like maybe have the deities make their name float over their head, perhaps in red, just so there are no mistakes, after all I think you talked about wanting a system that people could not take advantage of or bypass.

    Loving this game more and more as time goes on, the forums alone would be the best part, might even watch some twitch just to see how this really works out.

    Discern Location or Find Person Spell

    If the Assassins or Bounty Hunters aren't wizards or clerics, then they can enlist the services of a PC or NPC Wizard or Priest.  Might even be items (w/ a certain number of charges) that can be found/looted or crafted which can cast this spell.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Kyleran said:

    because he said he took 100 hours to get to max lvl when actually it takes tops 30 hours and that is if you don't rush


    also you guys forget games today is not about fun and bringing people together is to make a quick buck and milk players with cassino squemes, hence why most games are clones of each other giving or taking features


    However, in some of the older games, such as EQ2, it could take easily take a person 100+ hours to get to max level.

    Sadly, it seems that you are correct.  Most of these MMORPGs are not designed to be fun for the long term.  They're only designed to be fun enough initially to hook a player in and start spending money.


    My first character in Vanilla WOW took me 16 days played to reach level 60.

    My last character, a warrior I played totally fresh when Cataclysm launched took four days played....to like level 70 or 75 even.

    I was leveling so fast entire zones had to be skipped as I kept turning them gray before I could visit them.

    Lineage 2 at launch, played about 6 months, never got a character past level 56 as the upper level grind was brutal, especially trying to mostly solo a SR.

    Just out of curiosity, how many hours did you play on each of those 4 days?
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,589
    If you mean four days played as in /played that's almost a hundred hours which is pretty good. 100 hours would take me more than a month.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    Kyleran said:
    My first character in Vanilla WOW took me 16 days played to reach level 60.

    My last character, a warrior I played totally fresh when Cataclysm launched took four days played....to like level 70 or 75 even.

    I was leveling so fast entire zones had to be skipped as I kept turning them gray before I could visit them.

    Lineage 2 at launch, played about 6 months, never got a character past level 56 as the upper level grind was brutal, especially trying to mostly solo a SR.
    Well I've played WOW more recently than that, both regular and Classic, and it has gotten even faster. I didn't enjoy either version.

    WotLK era WOW was their high water mark IMO: just enough improvements over the clunky vanilla to make it more enjoyable but not so fast and streamlined to lose all its soul.

    It all started going downhill in a big way with Cata.

    Lineage 2 OTOH is the other extreme which to me is just as obnoxious. The happy medium between extremes is where I want to play.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,167
    If you mean four days played as in /played that's almost a hundred hours which is pretty good. 100 hours would take me more than a month.
    Yeah, my numbers are actual "days" in game, so 4 days played is 96 hours, 16 days is four times that......gah..too late in day to do maths....say 384 hrs?
    Ancient_Exile

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,138
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I didn't play Eve Online but to my understanding some people consider it grindy, same as UO.

    But the feeling of grind is totally perspective.  If you enjoy it, you won't feel it.  I'm sure some people have thousands of hours in Wow but never felt the grind.  Same with Eve.

    I read some of the OP's design philosophy.  My feeling is it targeted very specific demographic and exclude many potential players.  Solo players, carebares etc.  

    I think the question is weather you want to design games to be as broad as possible and be more inclusive.  Or you want to target a specific demographic and do a very well job at doing it.

    I want to target a specific demographic - Intelligent people who would like to play a decent MMORPG.  Maybe even a good or great MMORPG. 
    Oh, it's looking to be Memorable, I'll give you that.

    I mean, I loved how some of your ideas mix, especially when you talked about wanting to put in a bounty system to curb PKing and Ganking, and other kinds of Trolling of other players, but also make it so that names are not shown, so that players need to ask each other what their names are, otherwise you have no idea who they are.

    So you are basically setting up a system where players can interact, even violently, from complete anonymity, and your plan to curb unwanted PvP is a bounty system.

    I am going to be honest, I would pay the sub just to read the forums on this game for the first month.

    When the player's character gets killed, his or her deity reveals to him/her the name of his/her killer.  Which he or she remembers upon being raised from the dead.  Duh.  Isn't that obvious?

    C'mon, man, use your head.
    Oh, how foolish of me not to know the "deities" of this game would reveal the name of someone's killer. I mean that is such the obvious solution to that problem.

    So what about the poor hunters? Will they need to go around asking people what their name is to decide if they can kill them or not?

    Obviously there would need to be a way to stop the PKer from lying, like maybe have the deities make their name float over their head, perhaps in red, just so there are no mistakes, after all I think you talked about wanting a system that people could not take advantage of or bypass.

    Loving this game more and more as time goes on, the forums alone would be the best part, might even watch some twitch just to see how this really works out.

    Discern Location or Find Person Spell

    If the Assassins or Bounty Hunters aren't wizards or clerics, then they can enlist the services of a PC or NPC Wizard or Priest.  Might even be items (w/ a certain number of charges) that can be found/looted or crafted which can cast this spell.
    Ok.. so let me see if I have this right.

    Players are inherently anonymous to each other, so players can pretty much act out without any accountability to their actions, as the only way to know who they are is to ask them.

    Already loving that, can't wait to see how that plays out in just general interactions. Will this game have Ninja Looting and Kill Stealing to add to that fun filled dynamic?

    Anyway, so if someone does opt to be a ganker/PKer, and kills noobs or whatever for fun, the player they killed gets their name vis in game message with some RP about it being their deity. So they can now put a bounty up on the person that killed them, for the sake of revenge, obviously.

    Then any Bounty Hunter that goes after this person, they have no way to know who they are looking at or for, but need to use magic to locate them, vis spells or items, with the items having expendable charges adding to their expense to hunt down the PKer,  will the spells also have components to make it costly to use them as well?

    All while this is happening, the PKer/Ganker is still running around anon, with the freedom to kill and harass anyone they like.

    Wow, this game is gonna be some serious fun to watch unfold.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Thinking Outside the Box is fun.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

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