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Tried to get husband to play the game and I think he was very discouraged

cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
He is really very bad at playing games that he cannot click and cast and just play rather lazily. He is a click the action bar type and does not know how to use the keyboard to use the skills. Forget my 21 button mouse he will have an aneurysm if he had to learn to use that.

After getting him to remove the huge amount rubbish he had on this computer. Mainly porn, men ;) I got him a steam account and made a F2P account for DDO. He has an old card GeForce GTX 660 which damn DDO the temperatures are so damn high was in the 79~80's C. Even I have this issue where the GPU temperature is higher than newer games with DirectX 11 and all the stuff turned on because I have a GeForce GTX 1070. It is around 73 C even on my computer but his hit 90C at one point. I cleaned out his computer this morning with compressed air and it went down a few degrees but still going to 79 -80 is high. Plus the weather is getting hotter so it will get worse. I also dropped his to DirectX 9 from 11. I cannot drop all the graphics to too low or he will whine he will not play an ugly game.

Getting a new computer when the Coronavirus thing settles is the next thing we must do.

Then I created a throwaway character to let him try it and may have made a mistake of trying a pally because he just was always turned away or too far and was not connecting with the enemies. He began to fight the interface and the mouse and I was seeing a big fat 'F' staring at me that I could get him to play.

The last game he enjoyed playing was SWTOR where he can click and cast the skills with no problems and the target does not keep disappearing. He's gonna lose his temper and ditch the game soon and we have not even come to all the complexity in the systems of this game. The feats, the requirements and the way armour and weapons work. I really think that this was a bad idea to try and get him to play this game. May have short circuited his desire to play any game now.
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Comments

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    edited May 9

    A post on Reddit about two years ago by theunfunowl nails it

    DDO is the best MMO ever, with the worst new player experience ever. (Warning, Colossal Post)

    So I’ve been playing DDO for about 8 years now on and off, and I’ve seen the many different iterations how how classes work, enhancements, feats, spells and all. THis game has evolved in quite a few different ways over the years, but it is still in many ways the greatest game I’ve ever had the pleasure of playing, with the only time I’ve had more fun with gaming being PnP D&D.

    I want to preface this post with the fact that I love this game, and that I love this community. But there are major issues that I want to voice my opinion on, and offer solutions or at least get some discussion moving on so that we can help this game survive. I don’t write this post to bash on the game, i write it because I worry about it. I want this game to survive for many years to come.

    As the title probably told you, my problem isn’t with the game as a whole, but is with how the game looks and feels from the perspective of a new player. I will try to keep this as easy to read as possible, but it is still just the ramblings of a concerned player.

    I have a weird perspective on this compared to most players. Most players in this game that actually stick with it, most often end up having 1 or two characters that they end up powering through lives with and gearing up. I didn’t exactly do this. I didn’t used to like playing alone, so I would invite a new friend to play, start a new character to level with them, then they would get bored of the game and stop playing, leaving me with a another character, usually around level 8.

    I did have a main, a Paladin named Zulmarn, who is still my main to this day. I mostly played him alone or with my one consistent friend that I have on DDO.

    Anyway, this process was repeated 11 times, with only 3 of the people I brought in actually staying and playing the game. And even from that only two of them still play on the same server. All of them play other MMOs and other games.

    I am still friends with all of the people that I tried to get into the game, and I’ve talked with a few of them at length about why they didn’t want to get into the game.

    The answer is universal. The learning curve is a cliffside, and the in game description of mechanics is non-existent. Nowhere that I can find is it ever stated in game that you gain feats every 3 levels, that you gain an ability point every 4. It isn’t even stated that you can multiclass.

    The little tutorial in the grotto does an alright job of explaining the most basic of mechanics, but even that doesn’t really explain how important aim and paying attention to animations is. DDO plays more like an Elder Scrolls game than is does an MMO, because it actually cares about animation. Most MMOs just have flat miss chances, and so does DDO, but with DDO, you also have to have the animation physically make contact, otherwise the attack with completely fizzle. How most people play MMOs boils down to; Click on enemy, spam a four button rotation, the creature dies, unless it’s a stronger creature, in which case they may have to move once or twice, use 6 abilities and a cooldown, then heal afterwards. The same is true for spells, With spells it is never explained how placing ground spells is determined, nor that ray spells can be aimed like arrows, nor how saves work. While saves are an automatic thought for people that play tabletop games, but they are a pretty alien system for the average gamer.

    It is never explained how, melee/ranged power, spell power, and stances work. One of the biggest things that has confused pretty much every player I’ve tried to bring in is how item bonuses work. In pretty much every other MMO, if you have ten items that all give agility, they all stack to give you a ton of agility. The idea of enhancement bonus, natural bonus, deflection bonus, racial bonus, and so on, is completely alien to most players, and never explained in game. So very often I end up seeing new players walking around with five different pieces of dex gear, and it never even occurred to them that they are only getting a bonus from the strongest one.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ddo/comments/8enn5r/ddo_is_the_best_mmo_ever_with_the_worst_new/

    Post edited by cheyane on
    blueturtle13itchmon
    Chamber of Chains
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425

    And unfortunately, this leads to massive amounts of confusion, feeling of having a useless character and in most cases, the person leaving the game.

    And this doesn’t even cover the other major problem with the new player experience. The perceived idea of that the game is about. In most MMOs, the idea is to get to cap as quickly as possible, and start doing endgame content, because most of the content in the game is at level cap. The idea is usually something along the lines of; get to max level, start doing missions to get starting gear, after getting starting gear, start doing raids, kill bosses, win game, wait for more high level content or for an expansion. That is the usual cycle of how playing and MMO goes. Most players that come from playing other MMOs expect this to be how it is, so that is how they approach it.

    The real meat of this game is the reincarnation system. But to a new player, it isn’t at all apparent that it even exists. So this compounds the issues stated above. Because of how complicated this games systems are, people get stressed out by making choices for their characters, not realizing that their choices really don’t have a ton of impact on the long run of their character.

    To me, the reincarnation system is what DDO should lead with, so to speak. It is a very unique mechanic that really appeals to the type of people that like being able to effectively get infinitely stronger for putting in time and effort. (Yes i know you can eventually get to triple everything completionist, but the time that takes means basically you can progress infinitely, because more classes and races are added faster than most players can even get one level of completionist, let alone tripple.)

    This creates a massive misunderstanding of what much of the gameplay of this game is. Players enter expecting the majority of gameplay to be AFTER the leveling, but in reality much of the gameplay IS leveling. This certainly doesn’t appeal to everyone, but the people that I’ve gotten into the game are people who love efficiency and optimization, and they love doing lots of lives, trying to find the best ways for each class to get to cap quickly and begin again.

    So as an overall new player experience, DDO is confusing, frustrating, lacking information, and in most ways just not well designed for getting a player acquainted with how the game works, or even what the content of the game is.

    However, I am not one to complain without offering solution! Otherwise I would just be an ass.

    Honestly the biggest thing that I can suggest is Korthos needs an overhaul. I actually love Korthos as a starting zone, as the quests flow nicely and they tell a class D&D style storyline. But after the grotto, it doesn’t do a ton more to explain how the game works.

    Even just a few modifications to the grotto would help. Have the DM or an NPC, (Maybe Jeets because I love that voice actor) explain the ins and outs of the character sheet, feats, skills, item bonuses, class features, enhancements, and so on. A lot of games struggle with pouring too much information onto the player at the start, but in my opinion, that is better than too little.

    Maybe add a section of the grotto that has fast moving enemies to show the importance of having to connect your animations to the target. Sahuagin don’t exactly give you a hard to hit target.

    As for the multiclassing part, I would suggest that maybe there be a master teacher in Korthos that the party meets up with after defeating the sahuagin in the grotto, instead of just exiting into the town. He will explain that you can take multiple paths and such, and probably have a straight up text disclaimer that you can take levels in multiple classes. Exactly how it would be presented is a much harder topic, and I’m not a game developer. I just know that is does need to be presented. It would probably be a good idea to put a section in the character creation menu when selecting a role that just says “You can take levels in multiple different classes, though it is generally advise to do this once you have some experience with the game and understand how the different classes work”

    As of writing this, another problem occurred to me. In most MMO, self recovery is just a basic game mechanic. You can just sit and wait for your health to regenerate, your magicka to refill, then you are good to go! This is not the case in DDO.

    I could very easily see a section being added to the grotto with Celimas telling you it is always best to be prepared. Bring healing potions, wands, buff potions, and scrolls. Have him explain that you don’t just regenerate for sitting around, unless it’s in a safe place with a rest shrine. Have this be a mandatory part of the quest before moving on into the trap room.

    In general just pack more information into Korthos. It doesn't even need to all be in the the Grotto. It could very easily be spread into the other quests.

    The issue of explaining reincarnation is a little harder. I’ve been wracking my brain while writing this and I have no solid solutions or suggestions. Possibly an opening cutscene of you being the first line of what would be many heroes? I’m not sure. But it needs to be explained to the player in some shape or form that while they may currently be a halfling paladin, they could soon be an orc barbarian, then a dragonborn sorcerer, then a something else. Reincarnation is such a core part of the game, and is honestly the game mechanic that drive DDO and sets it apart from all other MMOs, and honestly all other games. I feel it should be used as the spearpoint of SSG’s marketing for DDO, and that it should be the selling point, not something that players possibly find out after playing for a while.

    In addition to all of this, I have a few small issues I want to bring up, though they are insignificant compared to the rest of this.

    For the love of all this is holy, change the shown solo ability of monk to fair. For a new player, especially if they are a first lifer and trying monk, there is nothing easy about playing monk. You are squishier than ALL other melee classes, and the only melee class with worse self healing is Barbarian, but at least barbarian is extremely tough. I love monk as a class. I have an alt that I have only ever done monk lives on. But for the love of Xoriat change it to say it has fair solo capability, because saying it has very good solo capability is bullshit.

    Make active attack abilities more responsive. A lot of the time with things like whirlwind attack or enhancement abilities like strikes tend to be unresponsive for about .5 seconds before going off, even if your character isn’t doing any other animations. I know this is probably just a bug but it’s been around since the game came out and it hurts the flow of combat, especially for classes that have LOT of special attacks, like paladins, monks, and rangers.


    Chamber of Chains
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425


    This last one is a very personal gripe, and has been a long running issue for me and my friends. I HATE THE JUMPING MECHANICS. Ok now that I have that out of my system, here is the actual problem. It’s not the actual jumping mechanics, its the surfaces upon which you land. DDO has some of the most slidy perfectly flat surfaces in any game i’ve ever played. Most if not all surfaces will have you sliding off to your doom unless you land exactly flat on them. Walking along rock pathways is like walking on a soap covered slip’n’slide. Yet for some reason I can run along a ROUND SLIME COVERED PIPE like it was a wooden boardwalk. I’ve been playing this game since I was a kid and I still struggle with the climbing in this game, and I know that it will probably annoy me until this game dies.

    Anyway, I plan on posting this somewhere on the forums soon, but I thought I would post it here because I am a lot more familiar with the community here on reddit than I am with the people on the forums. If the devs see this, cool, if not, I just want some discussion on this topic.

    The unfortunate truth is that this game doesn’t often gain new players that stay, and while we do have a very dedicated core playerbase, I don’t see that core player base being able to carry DDO into another decade. I love this game with all my heart. The people, the game, the story, all of it. I just want it to continue.

    PS: If the devs see this, I just want you to know that Ravenloft is fucking amazing and you guys nailed it.

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  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    I must agree on the jumping too it is horrible in some places and being the type that detests jumping I have to agree with him. Jumping puzzles in GW2 used to make me cry when I reach almost to the top and fall. Don't even get me started on those.
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,644
    Pro tip. No need to copy the entire contents of a long blog, across multiple posts no less.

    Extract a relevant paragraph or three along with a link to the original, leaving it to the reader whether or not learn more.


    cheyaneUngoodnewbismxAncient_Exile

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,250
    edited May 9
    While it's for DDO, maybe not too off-topic (within the boundaries of SSG) to suggest LotRO?

    DX9 and 64-bit client tends to be less stressful on the gear (I know DDO got the 64-bit upgrade recently as well, maybe it still needs some tweaks), and LotRO's gameplay is much more suited to the hotbar-clicking lifestyle.

    A more "laid-back" class like hunter/champ, with enabled target forward, skill select, and by disable the ground click remove selection, he will barely need to move off the mouse from the bar during combat.

    DDO could be too action-y for a clicker type of player...
    cheyaneUngooditchmon
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    Kyleran said:
    Pro tip. No need to copy the entire contents of a long blog, across multiple posts no less.

    Extract a relevant paragraph or three along with a link to the original, leaving it to the reader whether or not learn more.


    Yeah you're right I should have done that but almost everything he wrote resonated and I was excited to share it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ddo/comments/8enn5r/ddo_is_the_best_mmo_ever_with_the_worst_new/

    Here's the link
    Asheram
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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,524
    I used to play DDO with a controller, not a mouse and keyboard. (I currently play it with a tartarus and naga)

    "t" Toggles the action Look, and I mainly use that.

    I never "click" anything, I always set up my number buttons for the hot bar.

    This was how I set it up.

    D-Pad U&D - to scroll through the Hotbars, Up and Down.
    D-Pad - L&R - Tab Target

    Then I use up the controller Buttons to trigger the actions.

    R-trigger = Attack
    L-Trigger = Jump.
    The 4 Buttons would be numbers 1 - 4 on the hot bar (Which would be my main combat buttons, like Cleave, or drinking a haste pot, etc)
    2 buttons in the Middle are 5 & 6
    L-Top Button (Above L-Trigger) = Block
    R - Top Button (Above R-trigger) = Hypershift (Changes the Button Functions)
    HS(Hyper Shift) 4 Buttons now do 6-10
    HS D-pad - Party Members F2 > F5
    HS L-Trigger = ESC

    This gives me all 10 Hotbar Buttons as a fast button Press, I never have to click anything.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    edited May 9
    Ungood said:
    I used to play DDO with a controller, not a mouse and keyboard. (I currently play it with a tartarus and naga)

    "t" Toggles the action Look, and I mainly use that.

    I never "click" anything, I always set up my number buttons for the hot bar.

    This was how I set it up.

    D-Pad U&D - to scroll through the Hotbars, Up and Down.
    D-Pad - L&R - Tab Target

    Then I use up the controller Buttons to trigger the actions.

    R-trigger = Attack
    L-Trigger = Jump.
    The 4 Buttons would be numbers 1 - 4 on the hot bar (Which would be my main combat buttons, like Cleave, or drinking a haste pot, etc)
    2 buttons in the Middle are 5 & 6
    L-Top Button (Above L-Trigger) = Block
    R - Top Button (Above R-trigger) = Hypershift (Changes the Button Functions)
    HS(Hyper Shift) 4 Buttons now do 6-10
    HS D-pad - Party Members F2 > F5
    HS L-Trigger = ESC

    This gives me all 10 Hotbar Buttons as a fast button Press, I never have to click anything.
    He cannot use a controller never used one ever. My god he is even older than me and I am nearly 65 okay lied 63, 62 ...

    Controllers are horrible I cannot navigate i.e. move with the thumbsticks they are awful. I use them only for turn based games on the Playstation. I lurch around like a drunk he won't touch a controller.
    Ungood
    Chamber of Chains
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,524
    Also for note, while I enjoy the Jump Puzzles in GW2, the lag issues in DDO make platforming and jump puzzles in that game a living hell.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    Ungood said:
    Also for note, while I enjoy the Jump Puzzles in GW2, the lag issues in DDO make platforming and jump puzzles in that game a living hell.
    Damn that is why I keep falling. I was thinking I was to blame all this time :pensive:
    UngoodNyghthowler
    Chamber of Chains
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    Po_gg said:
    While it's for DDO, maybe not too off-topic (within the boundaries of SSG) to suggest LotRO?

    DX9 and 64-bit client tends to be less stressful on the gear (I know DDO got the 64-bit upgrade recently as well, maybe it still needs some tweaks), and LotRO's gameplay is much more suited to the hotbar-clicking lifestyle.

    A more "laid-back" class like hunter/champ, with enabled target forward, skill select, and by disable the ground click remove selection, he will barely need to move off the mouse from the bar during combat.

    DDO could be too action-y for a clicker type of player...
    I think you're right because the only game he has high levels are WoW the Burning Crusade he had a Blood Elf warlock and SWTOR. I hope I have not ruined things.
    itchmon
    Chamber of Chains
  • achesomaachesoma Member RarePosts: 1,328
    While I’ve never played DDO, I can confirm that LOTRO would be an excellent choice for a clicker. It’s nice you can queue up your second abilities. 

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,644
    cheyane said:
    He is really very bad at playing games that he cannot click and cast and just play rather lazily. He is a click the action bar type and does not know how to use the keyboard to use the skills. Forget my 21 button mouse he will have an aneurysm if he had to learn to use that.

    After getting him to remove the huge amount rubbish he had on this computer. Mainly porn, men ;) I got him a steam account and made a F2P account for DDO. He has an old card GeForce GTX 660 which damn DDO the temperatures are so damn high was in the 79~80's C. Even I have this issue where the GPU temperature is higher than newer games with DirectX 11 and all the stuff turned on because I have a GeForce GTX 1070. It is around 73 C even on my computer but his hit 90C at one point. I cleaned out his computer this morning with compressed air and it went down a few degrees but still going to 79 -80 is high. Plus the weather is getting hotter so it will get worse. I also dropped his to DirectX 9 from 11. I cannot drop all the graphics to too low or he will whine he will not play an ugly game.

    Getting a new computer when the Coronavirus thing settles is the next thing we must do.

    Then I created a throwaway character to let him try it and may have made a mistake of trying a pally because he just was always turned away or too far and was not connecting with the enemies. He began to fight the interface and the mouse and I was seeing a big fat 'F' staring at me that I could get him to play.

    The last game he enjoyed playing was SWTOR where he can click and cast the skills with no problems and the target does not keep disappearing. He's gonna lose his temper and ditch the game soon and we have not even come to all the complexity in the systems of this game. The feats, the requirements and the way armour and weapons work. I really think that this was a bad idea to try and get him to play this game. May have short circuited his desire to play any game now.
    Yes, several mistakes were made here. 

    First, using a 21 button mouse? That's about 15 more than I would ever consider using and if the gameplay requires such, then it's the wrong game for me.  :#

    Must be tough for your husband to be married to an action combat elitist such as yourself. He's a lazy, bad game playing, porn watcher? Gay or straight porn? If it's with multiple partners you may have a reason for real concern.   :D

    EVE is a difficult game to get into, well alone master with a huge learning curve which is really never ending which isn't appealing to most gamers...especially women. Bet you've never played it, amirite? ;)

    Sounds like DDO is similar, so while you might enjoy the complexity, or all of the ridiculous dodge rolling,  he might prefer the more tactical approach of range casting or fighting.  

    In FO76 I am a power armor wearing juggernaut, who charges straight in relentlessly firing hundreds of rounds per second until everything dies in an explosive, bloody pulp. :B

    There is no dodging, just a lot of jumping with my totally awesome jetpack while continuously hurling lead at targets while all of the sniper or melee types sit flatfooted on the ground, or... dodge / block attacks... suckers.

    You asked your husband to play a Paladin? Usually a cruel fate in almost any fantasy MMO, must be a better choice such as archer or mage for one who prefers being a range caster or eschews action combat as much as I do.

    Finally, I'm always fascinated when gamers post core temperatures while playing various games.  Why are you monitoring them in the first place.? 

    Is the computer performance so bad you actually have to choose what games you can even play based on the temperature?

    If so, throw that one out ASAP and buy your husband a proper box before attempting to try another game. (They are still selling computers you know, despite the virus)

    Bottom line, while DDO might be your favoritist multiplayer game ever (it's not a MMO btw) it's likely never going to appeal to your husband.

    Better if you play DDO alone when you can and find another game more  accommodating to his handicaps...err, limitations...err, I mean preferences, yeah, that's it.

    Like FO76 perhaps? ;)





    Ironside81cheyane

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    edited May 9
    I use the 21 button mouse he is using a normal mouse with no side buttons. I was thinking since he cannot click the skills on the keyboard the mouse might be an easier sell. He was just trying and getting upset is all with just a  normal mouse and moving to target. I even did not turn off auto targetting because it's a bit wonky in DDO. I think DDO is a bit actiony and I am honestly very bad at those games myself.

    The game does not need a 21 button mouse at all I just use it because it is so much easier for me then using the keyboard.

    He wanted to play because he wants to play the game I am playing to play with me. I actually suggested he play SWTOR. We used to play SWTOR and WoW and even City of Heroes together.
    Ungood
    Chamber of Chains
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,129
    Well i am going to side with your hubby because i can't stand games that require the keyboard to be good.I have learned  to type and sort of remember keys a bit over time but i cannot reliably use a KB and WASD is 100% out of the question.

    This is why you see so many pro shooter gamer's using scripts,to eliminate as much keyboard use as possible.I look at it from a realistic perspective,if was in real life,i wouldn't have to stop and think about,where is the D key or what key did i have that ability bound to.It would just come naturally so that is how i feel it should be in game and not a case of who can use the keyboard the best.

    I thought SE did an awesome job with FFXI because the hotbar remains off screen until i bring it up,which keeps the screen free of UI clutter because even the UI remains off screen until i press middle mouse button.I only have to remember two keys ALT and CNTRL for combat.
    cheyane

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WalkinGlennWalkinGlenn Member RarePosts: 367
    Did you get the attention you were so desperately seeking?
    mmolouUngoodDakeruAncient_ExileAsheramTheocritus
  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,487
    edited May 9
    cheyane said:

    1..The real meat of this game is the reincarnation system. 

    This creates a massive misunderstanding of what much of the gameplay of this game is. Players enter expecting the majority of gameplay to be AFTER the leveling, but in reality much of the gameplay IS leveling. 

    2.  So as an overall new player experience, DDO is confusing, frustrating, lacking information, and in most ways just not well designed for getting a player acquainted with how the game works, or even what the content of the game is.

    Honestly the biggest thing that I can suggest is Korthos needs an overhaul. I actually love Korthos as a starting zone, as the quests flow nicely and they tell a class D&D style storyline. But after the grotto, it doesn’t do a ton more to explain how the game works.

    Even just a few modifications to the grotto would help. Have the DM or an NPC, (Maybe Jeets because I love that voice actor) explain the ins and outs of the character sheet, feats, skills, item bonuses, class features, enhancements, and so on. A lot of games struggle with pouring too much information onto the player at the start, but in my opinion, that is better than too little.

    Maybe add a section of the grotto that has fast moving enemies to show the importance of having to connect your animations to the target. Sahuagin don’t exactly give you a hard to hit target.

    As of writing this, another problem occurred to me. In most MMO, self recovery is just a basic game mechanic. You can just sit and wait for your health to regenerate, your magicka to refill, then you are good to go! This is not the case in DDO.

    I could very easily see a section being added to the grotto with Celimas telling you it is always best to be prepared. Bring healing potions, wands, buff potions, and scrolls. Have him explain that you don’t just regenerate for sitting around, unless it’s in a safe place with a rest shrine. Have this be a mandatory part of the quest before moving on into the trap room.

    3.  As for the multiclassing part, I would suggest that maybe there be a master teacher in Korthos that the party meets up with after defeating the sahuagin in the grotto, instead of just exiting into the town. He will explain that you can take multiple paths and such, and probably have a straight up text disclaimer that you can take levels in multiple classes. 

    Just in General I'd say have your husband try a Ranger.  It would along him to do ranged attacks and with tab targeting all he'd have to do is tab and click the mouse to shoot.  After mastering those basic's then you could introduce him to some of the harder parts.

    Now on to the spot's I marked:

    1.  I will agree that most gamers seem to think the game doesn't start until they hit the end game point.  I've seen that mindset in both LotRO and in Age of Conan and all of us will tell new players it's about the journey, not the end.   I don't think you'll ever convince anyone of that fact until they hit endgame and find out it either sucks, isn't as good as getting there or doesn't exist.

    As far as reincarnation goes; that was something put into the game for players to give them something to do when they hit level cap.  Personally I don't think it's what a new player should shoot for and judging by the number of lvl 20's & 30's I've seen, not everyone is doing it.  There's a reason it's referred to as the 'TR grind' because that's just what it is, a grind.

    Letting players know it's there when they hit lvl 19 or 20?  Sure, do the in game email from the NPC that does it.  Explain it all, how to, do's and don't's and leave it up to the player.

    2.  While nothing tells you the in depth stuff like you listed, I can only guess you've got the Tutorial turned off of just dismissed all those '!' boxes that pop up.    A lot of the games basic's are explained in the tutorial, while weak in some area's with hind-sight it is there and they carry over into the Harbor area with more tips.

    While it doesn't come out and say it like you did on the healing, Celimas does touch on it when you reach the Grotto health shire and later in the Tomb dungeon after the Grotto you get a on screen tip on your health level and potions, just like you do with blunt and sharp weapons and what monsters they're good for.

    What it really comes down to is the ENTIRE island is a tutorial area and you get tips spread out through out the experience, which is a better way than a huge data dump that most would just forget and not having the event it's talking about right there, they wouldn't have anything to connect the information with.

    There's also NPC's in the tavern and scattered around the village that explain game play, but they need to have their information updated and some kind of indicator over their heads to show you should talk to them.

    Way back in 2008, the one in the tavern used to be some kind of fighter association rep (RP purpose) and you had to talk to him as you leveled up as an adventurer.  He in turn directed you to seek out the other 'masters' on the island for their knowledge.

    3.  I'd move your multi-classing NPC to when they get ready to level up to lvl 5.  Have the NPC you go to tell you about it then, as doing it too early will just be confusing.  On the whole you need about 5 levels in your first class to be effective, before you worry about other stuff.

    There needs to be a good divide between basic and advanced game play.
    cheyaneUngoodKyleran

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,425
    edited May 9
    I didn't know that TR is a grind. Thanks for that. Tell you the truth I know nothing about it since I'm a long way from TRing if I ever did it. I have never actually found DDO that bad because I read copiously and check guides and then read and read the forums. Old posts, new posts everything I can find I read. I guess I was a horrible teacher I may have rushed him a  bit.

    I forgot I have all that knowledge behind me and was impatient for him to get interested too. It's not fair I know. I hope he does not give up.

    I'll ask him to try the ranger.

    What key mapping style should I let him use ? Moving with WASD is fine for him but I set it at left click attack and interact and the right mouse to target. Tab target too but he has never played tab targetting before he usually targets with his mouse and click the skill to attack. It was a bad idea to let him play a game that you attack with the left click considering his history.
    Ungood
    Chamber of Chains
  • psychosiz1psychosiz1 Member UncommonPosts: 191
    It sounds to me (coming from experience) you need to find a game you will both like.  SWTOR was the first one I thought of but you already mentioned you've played before. May I suggest (for him to like and you to play together), Guild Wars 1 and/or 2, Secret World Legends, Diablo 3, Wizard 101(a bit different but still doable), and Final Fantasy 14.

    Some others to consider GTA 5 Online, A Way Out, Monster Hunter World, and Destiny 2

    There are certainly others but I think these may work.
    UngoodcheyaneDakeru
  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,487
    cheyane said:
    What key mapping style should I let him use ? 
    OK, this might come across wrong, but I'm married too and can see where this is going because I've done it too.

    How about letting HIM decide?  Really the whole 'What key mapping style should I let him use' just comes across as it's YOUR decision on how he plays, and it's not.  

    Explain the different ways he can play and see which he'll be comfortable with.

    I know in my situation; I move using the W key only and steering with my mouse.  It's what I do with all my games, but when I introduced my wife to some games that just wasn't her thing and she was more comfortable with the WSAD pattern she'd learned with the games she started on.
    cheyaneKyleran

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,524
    Ok.. well if you can't use a controller, that is fine. They are not for everyone.

    I personally hate the Keyboard for playing an MMO, they simply put are huge, awkward, and annoying for trying to make things happen. 

    This is my current tool for my left hand.





    I have a dual shelf set up, where my Keyboard is up higher, so if I need to type or whatever, I can do that. But when it comes to fights, It's all the Tartus (Shown Above) and Naga (Shown Below).



    I find it allows me to control the game much smoother, especially when using WASD for movement. Razer offers a full programmable system to set up anything I want, what keys I want to use for where, and all that jazz. 

    I am just now playing with macros, and.. I have mixed feelings on them.

    With that said.

    As far as "Click Combat" goes, You can put the Attack Command in the Hot Bar, it's under Basic Feats "Attack" looks like a Gray Box swinging a yellowish sword, often it is in your hotbar at the start of the game when you make a new character.

    Keep in mind that is an on/off Auto-Attack button, ergo "Click On" "Click Off" command, makes for Archer Fights to be a lot easier, that way you just click the attack button and then are free to dance around like a rabbit jacked up on monster energy drink.

    Also, if you husband likes a more low key relaxed feel to a game, maybe he could play a Cleric of the Silver Flame, which uses Longbow as a favored weapon, that way, he can hang back, heal and shoot things to death. In fact, I have heard Favored Souls make some mean archers in DDO, so, don't overlook that, and it's not like he is going to play some weak sauce class. Archers can rip stuff up in DDO if they have a good Agro Controller, which is where you would come in. You play the Melee DPS/Tank role, and he plays the Healer/Archer DPS role, and you Duo-Team things to death.

    Also, DDO is not a Tab Target game, you will hit whatever you your mouse pointer is hovering over like "Action Combat", so he never really has to call a target, that is only needed when you need to attack a specific target, like a Boss Mob or a Champion.

    Just saying, he can just spam Attack and as long as he is facing a mob, he will hit that mob. This comes in super handy when you play ranged.
    cheyane
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,392
    I tried to go back to DDO about 6 weeks ago.  I have fond memories of that module that Gygax DMed so I know I enjoyed it at one time.  But I made a new character and tried to go through the tutorial/grotto or whatever and it was horribly painful.  I could not in good conscience try to get the gang back together to give it a go.  Funny I think I also made a Pally.


    cheyane

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,524
    cheyane said:
    I use the 21 button mouse he is using a normal mouse with no side buttons. I was thinking since he cannot click the skills on the keyboard the mouse might be an easier sell. He was just trying and getting upset is all with just a  normal mouse and moving to target. I even did not turn off auto targetting because it's a bit wonky in DDO. I think DDO is a bit actiony and I am honestly very bad at those games myself.

    The game does not need a 21 button mouse at all I just use it because it is so much easier for me then using the keyboard.

    He wanted to play because he wants to play the game I am playing to play with me. I actually suggested he play SWTOR. We used to play SWTOR and WoW and even City of Heroes together.
    I fully get where your husband is coming from. I play games with my wife as well.

    This is my advice.

    Don't build his character, do not set up his system, allow him to ask you, and then show him or better yet, just tell him how to do it, that way, if he wants to change things later, he can, as he gets a feel for the game.

    To use an example.

    Just tell him that "G" turns on and off auto targeting, let him swap around a bit and see what he likes. His flavor of play might not be yours, and each game is a bit different. 

    Just like, "T" turns on and off Mouse Look, which he might find super handy to be able swap at his own convenience. 

    With that said, even in your own article, keep in mind DDO has a learning curve of a cliffside, and that is no joke. Unless you are already familiar with the 3.5 rule set, It takes about a week to get a handle on the basics of the game, and then months if not years to master the rest of it, and they keep changing things.

    Anyway, with that said. One of the best things you can do, is start together. No passing gear, no advantages, just, allow him to make a 1st level character, and you make a 1st level character, and you run together.

    Have a discussion about what he wants to do, how he wants to play, and then you try to build 2 classes that work well together and can lift each other up and carry each other if need be.

    and that is going to come down to what they enjoy doing. Do they like shooting things? Blowing things up? Hitting things with a Big weapon?

    What is their approach? 

    And then suggesting something for them.

    Paladin is a good strong starting class, but it is also a lot of boots and button pressing as it goes on. This is not bad, as the player can grow into the class, and how to play, all the while backed by a pretty tough casing of the paladin.

    But, Cleric should not be  underestimated as a very solid starting class, especially when you have a partner to roll with.

    But above all, let him play WITH you, just play together, make new fresh characters, laugh at the deaths, giggle at some of the audacious hell that the game throws at you.. and you will find that those first few levels can be a joy. 

    I mean, just to give you an idea, my wife blew me up.. TWICE.. in Undermine this life.. Giggling the whole time.. she laughed herself into a fit the second time..

    Just something to think about.
    cheyane
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,377
    cheyane said:
    Ungood said:
    I used to play DDO with a controller, not a mouse and keyboard. (I currently play it with a tartarus and naga)

    "t" Toggles the action Look, and I mainly use that.

    I never "click" anything, I always set up my number buttons for the hot bar.

    This was how I set it up.

    D-Pad U&D - to scroll through the Hotbars, Up and Down.
    D-Pad - L&R - Tab Target

    Then I use up the controller Buttons to trigger the actions.

    R-trigger = Attack
    L-Trigger = Jump.
    The 4 Buttons would be numbers 1 - 4 on the hot bar (Which would be my main combat buttons, like Cleave, or drinking a haste pot, etc)
    2 buttons in the Middle are 5 & 6
    L-Top Button (Above L-Trigger) = Block
    R - Top Button (Above R-trigger) = Hypershift (Changes the Button Functions)
    HS(Hyper Shift) 4 Buttons now do 6-10
    HS D-pad - Party Members F2 > F5
    HS L-Trigger = ESC

    This gives me all 10 Hotbar Buttons as a fast button Press, I never have to click anything.
    He cannot use a controller never used one ever. My god he is even older than me and I am nearly 65 okay lied 63, 62 ...

    Controllers are horrible I cannot navigate i.e. move with the thumbsticks they are awful. I use them only for turn based games on the Playstation. I lurch around like a drunk he won't touch a controller.
    I use a controller and move with a D-pad.  One thumbstick moves the mouse pointer, and the other is only used to select myself or my hireling as a spell target.  DDO isn't the most controller-friendly game out there, but it's plenty playable, which is more than can be said for a lot of MMORPGs.
    cheyane
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