Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Do MMORPGs Need to Allow the Use of Macros?

Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
Can MMORPGs prevent the use of Macros if they like?  I've never actually used Macros in MMORPGs.  Never really felt the need to do so.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


(Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

«1

Comments

  • kilunkilun Member UncommonPosts: 758
    SWG had macros built in.
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    kilun said:
    SWG had macros built in.

    And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    MMORPG games don't have needs. :|
    Ancient_Exile[Deleted User]AlBQuirky
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,363
    kilun said:
    SWG had macros built in.

    And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

    yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

    also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    kilun said:
    SWG had macros built in.

    And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

    yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

    also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

    Understood.  Makes sense.  And, yes, I know that macros in games are not new.  Just wondering if a game could prevent the use of macros if the designers so chose.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,363
    edited April 28
    kilun said:
    SWG had macros built in.

    And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

    yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

    also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

    Understood.  Makes sense.  And, yes, I know that macros in games are not new.  Just wondering if a game could prevent the use of macros if the designers so chose.

    a game don't want to let you cheat, yet people do, so you have your question
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,895
    In my experience you either allow it or adjust your game so it isn’t necessary. 
    Ancient_ExileAlBQuirky
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    kilun said:
    SWG had macros built in.

    And Macros allow you to do multiple things (use multiple skills & abilities) by hitting one key or to automate a series of keystrokes and mouse movements.  But this can provide macro-using players a definite advantage over players who don't use macros in PVP, right?

    yes and no, macro is a set of keys preset, in pvp that is useless, you need to act and react more, we also can notice who use macros, and these in pvp are the easiest to deal with.

    also some game had macro in build to make several skills or potions use so its nothing new

    Understood.  Makes sense.  And, yes, I know that macros in games are not new.  Just wondering if a game could prevent the use of macros if the designers so chose.

    a game don't want to let you cheat, yet people do, so you have your question

    So can designers prevent people from using macros to cheat or not?
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    DMKano said:
    Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 



    Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 388
    DMKano said:
    Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 



    Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?
    Asking for a friend?

    Developers often times use anti cheat software that is built into the game.  However, they are often circumvented.  They also use up computer resources making the game harder to optimize.


  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    moshra said:
    DMKano said:
    Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 



    Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?
    Asking for a friend?

    Developers often times use anti cheat software that is built into the game.  However, they are often circumvented.  They also use up computer resources making the game harder to optimize.



    No, I'm just curious.  I don't use macros.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • XatshXatsh Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Games cannot prevent people from using them.

    Anti-Cheats do 3 things,drastically slow down your loading, use system resources, and cause false positives that screw over legit ppl. People actually using hacks find ways around them it is actually fairly easy to do.

    Alot of gaming keyboards have macros built into them. Game that do not have macros in it, I will just use my keyboard or download something to do it.

    Some games have macros built in. FFXI/FFXIV and so on.

    As long as it is not AFK gameplay.. aka a really stupidly long macro. I see no problem with them.

    They are not really an advantage in pvp and in pve you can get by with or without them.
    Gdemami
  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,138
    Games with verbose client side logging and an API for game functions such as targetting, casting, etc. are the easiest to write macros for. It allows for a hot file to be parsed and macros to be executed based on the contents. Any game that supports UI mods will use both logging and API.

    For games that dont use the above, it's a little trickier. There are non intrusive methods like parsing the server response packets, and then there's the methods that these anti cheats try to prevent, which is accessing and altering the memory.

    No, you can't prevent it, but you could certainly make it more difficult.

    Gdemami
  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 708
    edited April 28
    Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

    That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

    Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.
    Ancient_ExileAlBQuirky

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: World of Warcraft Classic, Stuff
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Roguewiz said:
    Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

    That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

    Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

    Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 708
    Roguewiz said:
    Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

    That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

    Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

    Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.
    I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

    Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: World of Warcraft Classic, Stuff
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Roguewiz said:
    Roguewiz said:
    Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

    That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

    Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

    Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.
    I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

    Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

    Well, if it makes the gameplay better, I suppose that's a good thing.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,363
    Roguewiz said:
    Roguewiz said:
    Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

    That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

    Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

    Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.
    I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

    Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

    Well, if it makes the gameplay better, I suppose that's a good thing.

    not change much, so use because they are lazy others they belive doing so raise they dps, since they can't do a mistake in rotation, in the end change nothing if you know how to play you hardly will need, plus people who worry in using macros tend to mess mechs since they are not used to pay atencion in the game
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Roguewiz said:
    Roguewiz said:
    Depends on the MMO.  Macros, at least from the one I've used, are necessary to limit the amount of keys you need to hit.  Take WOW Classic for example.  I have some macros that I've assigned to a single button that can fire off 3 or 4 different abilities depending on the key combination I use.  Macros from this perspective, IMO, are necessary.  There is only so much you can assign comfortably on your keyboard or multi-button mouse.

    That being said, WOW Classic is an outlier now.  Most of the modern MMOs, and even Retail WOW, are slowly reducing the number of abilities you need to use.  Some of the newer ones have even gone as far to have 5 or 6 abilities, and maybe a consumable or two.  At this point, macros similar to what WOW uses isn't really necessary.

    Now, the use of 3rd party programs for macros...that is a different story entirely, to which I have no opinion.  I used macros like this in FF14 to be honest when I was crafting, mostly for component combines that I needed for upper level combines.

    Yeah, I can see how macros would be useful when you have too many abilities, too many keys to press, and not enough fingers.
    I have Control and Shift bound to my mouse.  It allows me to make macros easily for 3 abilities and assign that macro to a single key.

    Of course, this means I wear out that mouse button pretty quickly if it is a cheap mouse.  I'm on my second mouse for WoW Classic.

    Well, if it makes the gameplay better, I suppose that's a good thing.

    not change much, so use because they are lazy others they belive doing so raise they dps, since they can't do a mistake in rotation, in the end change nothing if you know how to play you hardly will need, plus people who worry in using macros tend to mess mechs since they are not used to pay atencion in the game

    I haven't yet used macros.  I didn't even use macros in Everquest 2.  Had to have like 4 hotbars by level 90-95 though.
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,310
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 



    Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

    Exactly what I am saying - most gamer type keyboards and mice support macros - games have no way of differentiating if the user pressed the keys or the keyboard ran a macro. 


    They can tell by how fast the skill, etc. is called on. Macros are quicker, there by giving a small amount of execution time.

    GW2 does not allow 3rd party macros.


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,399
    Rift had macros as part of the game and they were easier to use an more powerful than your typical home-cooked KB or mouse macro.

    As to detection it would need someone scrutinizing the player's input very carefully over a long period of time to see if the commands and the delay between commands was always exactly the same down to the millisecond.

    I seriously doubt any studio would bother especially when they have more egregious TOS violations to worry about like speed hacks, duping, automated multi-boxing, etc.

    It's not like they're game breaking, they're just lazy shortcuts or automation of repetitive tasks like that buff that needs to be recast every 20 seconds.


    Ancient_Exile
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,895
    botrytis said:
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 



    Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

    Exactly what I am saying - most gamer type keyboards and mice support macros - games have no way of differentiating if the user pressed the keys or the keyboard ran a macro. 


    They can tell by how fast the skill, etc. is called on. Macros are quicker, there by giving a small amount of execution time.

    GW2 does not allow 3rd party macros.
    It’s all easy to bypass without effort. Trust when I say they cannot prevent macros. 
    Gdemami
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,176
    Macros are going to be used. 
    One thing I have against them is using them like scripts to gain a benefit, such as skills or production, while the player is away from the game doing other things. 

    I also don't like detection programs. They can be used with macros too, or not. But that's a big problem. 
    ChildoftheShadowsAncient_Exile

    Once upon a time....

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,663
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Sort of irrelevant as people who want macros will use them regardless of whether the game allows macros or doesn't 



    Okay, so you're saying that games have no way of preventing players from using macros?

    Exactly what I am saying - most gamer type keyboards and mice support macros - games have no way of differentiating if the user pressed the keys or the keyboard ran a macro. 



    Im not sure about that...Many of the idle games ban people for using illegal scripts that can run the game 24/7 which is obviously cheating.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,234
    Macros. They help in the prevention of carpal tunnel like in crafting, can help when more keys are needed in a rotation than people have fingers, and can also be used for "AFK activities."

    My only experience with them was in EQ1 that had macros built in. It was with my Bard and I macro'd 2 song rotations (3 songs each) for combat. In that game, your abilities did not fire off automatically as many of them could fail. I stopped using the macros when my songs "failed" to play ("You missed a note...") and I found myself having to hit a song 2 or 3 times to get it fired off. In today's "always succeed" designs, I don't see that specific problem :smile:

    If players want them, why not give the option?

    PS: Cheaters will always find ways around the rules...
    Ancient_Exile

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


Sign In or Register to comment.