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Developers screwed up Community pissed off.

RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,116
Seems like everyone wants to blame the 3-4 guilds who took advantage of what the community is calling an (Exploit) but no actual ruling by the game company yet.

Based off the (TOU) and (Event Rules) I could not find any rules the hundreds of players supposedly broke in the game by using multiple accounts to play an in-game event to obtain loot chests.

https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/ban-em.521522/page-1

Though the event is already over people had many saved up and they spent hours running them today, yet it's not shocking that everyone wants to go after specific guilds rather than.

- Why the game company didn't noticed or patch it out since (Korean Version) in the first place.
- Why no GM showed up in game to officially call it an exploit if it was and  ask people to stop.
- The fact that all the players may get suspensions for using game-mechanics which is totally legitimate as there were no rules against it.
Gdemami

Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,535
    I could post a hundred examples of how to play by the apparent rules but still the INTENT was to cheat,exploit or ruin the game's economy with activity outside of the game.

    The developer should be within their right to be suspicious of such activity.I don't agree with auto bans but i would ask each player for an explanation of their intent.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,116
    edited March 30
    Wizardry said:
    I could post a hundred examples of how to play by the apparent rules but still the INTENT was to cheat,exploit or ruin the game's economy with activity outside of the game.

    The developer should be within their right to be suspicious of such activity.I don't agree with auto bans but i would ask each player for an explanation of their intent.
    No one got banned as of yet, but we currently have (Censorship) by the forum moderators for naming & shaming lol.

    Audio from the discord of the guilds doing it someone posted but removed by moderators.

    https://streamable.com/33m15
    https://streamable.com/hzxeh

    And I agree it could be an exploit, but the (TOU) and (Developers) have not made it clear, though like 3-4 really big guilds took advantage of the in-game event by using multiple accounts (Not a violation of TOU) or (Event Rules) because what they did was not anything outside normal methods as it was restricted (Per account).

    Just really bad decision making on the developers parts and likely staff trying to pull an Albion Online thing and ban or punish all those guild members who took part in it even though they technically didn't violate any rules.

    Though some people in certain guilds were aware it maybe punish worthy, many may stiill not have known.


    Post edited by Renoaku on
    Gdemami
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    edited March 30
    You would have to be pretty dense to think making 5 billion an hour isn't an exploit in a game where 100 million an hour is extremely good income. If you do something that is obviously not working as intended, then you knew you were cheating and you deserve a perma-ban.


    Kyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,905
    Typical MMO Player base: Some players got stuff by cheating and we didn't do the same quickly enough!
    KyleranH0urg1ass

     25 Agrees

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  • ZenislavZenislav Member UncommonPosts: 162
    edited March 30
    I am more surprised people play this shity afk / mob grind game and buy costumes for lolies that cost more than full games. BDO is mobile game that you play on PC.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,022
    Scot said:
    Typical MMO Player base: Some players got stuff by cheating and we didn't do the same quickly enough!
    OP generally doesn’t object to cheating if covered in the TOS or rules, but if the Devs didn’t have the foresight to cover in their documents some exploit then they feel there should be no punishment, just simple manipulation of in game mechanics, amiright?

    Here’s the thing, most of these TOS’s have such loose wording the Devs can easily leverage some portion of them to call anything they wish “cheating” and gamers have little recourse.

    In this situation, it clearly was an exploit, at the very least all ill gotten gains should be removed from the account in question, assuming of course the devs have algorithms in place to track such.
    GdemamiScot

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  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Scot said:
    Typical MMO Player base: Some players got stuff by cheating and we didn't do the same quickly enough!
    Look, I agree, but at the same time, if nothing is done about this, then I would be pissed too.

    It happened to me once in Age of Conan.  I was out farming some crafting materials immediately after a patch.  This was back in the early days of AoC where they actually put epics out in the real world.  As in every once in a long long while, if you were farming mobs or something, then an epic item could drop.

    Well, the place I needed to farm was right next to these flying demon thingies that only existed in pretty much 3 spots in the whole game world.  So I ride in and kill these things and I open the first bag and there's an epic in it.

    I'm thinking I'm the luckiest guy in the world, so I open the next bag... another epic .  In fact, the loot drop percentage had been changed during the patch a few minutes earlier and they had a 50% chance to drop epics instead of .005% chance

    So I farmed the shit out of them that night.  For hours.  I had so many epic weapons from level 20-80 that I had to start mule accounts to mail them to.

    So I did this for a couple of days and then went to sell them on the market, but the market was flooded with these things for cheap.  I thought I was the only one that had figured this out, but apparently I was wrong.

    So I held them on these mule accounts for about two years.  At that point, instead of selling for 5 gold each, they were selling for 600-2000 gold each (A HUGE amount of gold in AoC) because they had removed rare open world drops.  Those items didn't even exist on loot tables at all anymore, so they were technically the rarest items in game

    So I started dropping them on the market one at a time and I made enough gold in AoC to never have to farm gold again.

    Weird thing was, they fixed this exploit silently, never said a word about it, didn't take the items back and didn't ban people.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,116
    Here is the new video.

    https://streamable.com/40h3d

    Even my own guild didn't like the fact I argued respectfully on a thread on the bdo forums that developers are the ones who did this, and players should not be entirely accountable.

    Woke up guildless, it eventually gets to a point for the last 4 years in a gaming community that doesn't follow their own rules what type of community you were part of when people begin to censor free speech, (Other than telling you) that they recieved complaints, but don't follow their own rules on standards lol.

    People like to blame everyone else for their own mistakes, but can't follow their rules laid down by their own community, or even game for that matter.

    Even when making accounts doesn't violate the Terms OF Use.
    Gdemami
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,040
    I wonder if this an explote, which is against the rules, or just gaming the system, which is not.

    There is a huge difference between those two.

    Like for example.. in EQ, the first characters to max level on my server  were 2 thieves, who would run up to a mob, and take opposite sides of it, and then backstab it to death, as no matter which one the mob faced, the other would do max damage. 

    Cute use of game tactics and mechanics.. even if a bit cheesy.

    On the other hand, people nesting in spots that the mob could not reach due to a fault in the geometry and killing it, were clearly exploiting the game.

    So it really depends on which end of the spectrum this falls on.
    Kyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,535
    The multiple account idea is a VERY common trend used by rmt but of course many other players have done this as well.

    Work around,well there is a way but then gamer's would complain and that is to make quests or stuff that is valuable a chore to get.

    I personally think levels in games go by too fast anyhow,there should be a LOT more to do at low levels that take a lot of time and effort but offer a good reward.Perhaps remove the currency rewards or items that can be sold for currency that way it's not that valuable as an exploit.
    @ last poster...Using abilities such as backstab in a legit manner ,which is of course to stand behind and backstab would never be considered a cheat.However if you found some glitch in the coding where you could  backstab from any position OR if two people simultaneously backstabbing corrupted the npc scripting so that it could not react then yeah you would KNOW for certain your were exploiting.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • xD_GamingxD_Gaming Member EpicPosts: 2,502
    edited March 31
    Renoaku said:
    Seems like everyone wants to blame the 3-4 guilds who took advantage of what the community is calling an (Exploit) but no actual ruling by the game company yet.

    Based off the (TOU) and (Event Rules) I could not find any rules the hundreds of players supposedly broke in the game by using multiple accounts to play an in-game event to obtain loot chests.

    https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/ban-em.521522/page-1

    Though the event is already over people had many saved up and they spent hours running them today, yet it's not shocking that everyone wants to go after specific guilds rather than.

    - Why the game company didn't noticed or patch it out since (Korean Version) in the first place.
    - Why no GM showed up in game to officially call it an exploit if it was and  ask people to stop.
    - The fact that all the players may get suspensions for using game-mechanics which is totally legitimate as there were no rules against it.
    Simplest answer, you can dual box. We all got the free account, and PA knew we would all grab it.  More accounts = more revenue from whales.

    To call it an exploit is kind laughable . More of a "Haves and Have Nots" . 

    "I'm complianing because it is not fair people paid for more accounts  then me and did x y z".


    I understand the post, the annoyance that someone got extra, but they also paid extra.
    KyleranCaffynated
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  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    Ungood said:
    I wonder if this an explote, which is against the rules, or just gaming the system, which is not.

    There is a huge difference between those two.

    Like for example.. in EQ, the first characters to max level on my server  were 2 thieves, who would run up to a mob, and take opposite sides of it, and then backstab it to death, as no matter which one the mob faced, the other would do max damage. 

    Cute use of game tactics and mechanics.. even if a bit cheesy.

    On the other hand, people nesting in spots that the mob could not reach due to a fault in the geometry and killing it, were clearly exploiting the game.

    So it really depends on which end of the spectrum this falls on.

    It's clearly an exploit. The event was for new and returning players to get some catch up funds, and the event notes literally said abusing the system to gain rewards is exploiting. Making new accounts and getting power leveled to 60 for the rewards, then deleting the account and doing it over and over again was clearly abusing the system. Players asked GMs if it was an exploit and they said not to do that if you want to keep your account.
    GdemamiUngood
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,116
    Well, only 23 exploiters who knew it was an exploit without any doubt got banned, yet well over 100+ people were there across multiple servers during the scroll runs.

    It's likely they targeted the (Officers) who kicked alts from the guild and such.

    https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/exploitation-of-afuarus-guild-event-resolution.522266/

    ^ Though you still have to hold accountable the (Developers) of the game who released an event regardless of mistake, and took over 8 hours to even report it to the public as an exploit, though it was an unintended exploit, but rather just a clever usage of in-game mechanics.

    Also worth noting the (EU) terms of use for this specific product does not forbid making multiple accounts to play, or run scrolls as it's set per account, and only says in the event of an exploit they would roll-back accounts (Which the company didn't even do this.)

    12.1.4 (Use OF Exploits) (EU Version)
    https://www.blackdesertonline.com/account/TermsOfUse.html 

    12.1.4. Use of Exploits

    The User shall immediately report any process(es) or action(s) which, when performed in the Game, allow the User to play the Game in a way it was not intended to be played by game design (hereinafter, an “Exploit”).
    The User shall never attempt to reproduce an Exploit, except for the purpose of providing the reproduction steps to customer support of Kakao Games Europe.
    Any benefit acquired from the direct or indirect action of Exploiting shall be reversed if deemed necessary by Kakao Games Europe.


    Though the (EU Version) does specify abnormal ways of entering an event, doesn't define that it's abnormal to be able to do this (per account.) As the mistake the developers put into the game allowed people to freely do this.

    SEA Terms OF Service (What EU Version) should be updated to which is more strict to exploiters, and actually would make something like this ban worthy.

    https://www.sea.playblackdesert.com/Policy/policy/index/?policyNo=10

    14. Using the service by exploiting the error or bug of the service

    15. Obtaining items from other users by way of deceit or gambling

    16. Take unfair advantages by exploiting all processes related to user sign-up, game use, payment refund, etc. provided by the company and Settlement Company

    17. Disrupt the operation of Company services by intentional or gross negligence

    Gdemami
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    This is a pretty pathetically weak response. 23 bans and 405 players penalized 10 billion silver each? That's nothing. It sets a terrible precedent that you can cheat as much as you want and all you're going to risk is losing what you gained from the exploit as long as you're not the organizer of mass exploitation. So feel free to cheat all the time and you can keep all of your gains except those rare times you get caught.

    You can be certain that people who get caught cheating didn't just cheat this one time. It's just the time you caught them exploiting and they should be treated accordingly. Everyone in these groups knew exactly what they were doing. They even bragged about it. The 405 accounts that were fined should have faced at least temporary bans for a few months. It's a joke that they didn't.
    Gdemami
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