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Chronicles of Elyria, it is finished.

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  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,265
    Since this was a scam they need an audit. He should be made to account for every cent he spent. No one should be allowed to get away with this.
    AnOldFartSlapshot1188DeveronXodicEponyxDamorGdemamiViper482GladDogBluefish

  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    I am sincerely wondering why anyone cares about those that lost their jobs, or those that lost money. 

    People should be looking for how to approach this situation via litigation, not wallowing.

    Who in the fuck really cares?
    Gdemami
  • BrotherMaynardBrotherMaynard Member UncommonPosts: 214
    This is a quote from his state of Elyria letter about what publishers told him:

    "Either work faster, show us more, or we're going to want to take over development and make changes to the business model." This was unacceptable to us"

    I mean... Does anything else sum up this game, studio and their ultimate fate better than this?



    KyleranMendelGdemami
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    edited March 2020
    Also, this may be a win for future crowdfunding games. I can see a case being made if the backers go for litigation and try to get this situation in front of a judge. Maybe it'll lead to laws or restrictions on what these companies can do to scam people.

    I'm not lawyer, but at this point, whats left for these poor guys?

    ---------------------

    Oh, and everyone here is considered a winner now. Not sure why anyone thinks the result would be the same if Caspian listened to the naysayers.

    I'm fully convinced this weasel knew the ends he wanted, and that the naysayers were only roadblocks from the beginning. So stop assuming anything would be different. He is an adult with experience in his field, and from it looks like this is probably as far as his egregious scheme went.

    ---------------------

    Personal note: I am actually disgusted by the idea that he could lie to people to their faces and take their hard-earned money for what may have been from the beginning.

    Even though I wasn't a fan of him, the vision of CoE was appealing from the moment I laid my eyes on it. So, barring my bias against him, I did want the game to succeed and I'd even play it.

    But, the idea that an individual can tell bold-faced lies, jerk people around from their responsibilities only to postpone and waste their sick/vacation days, all while taking an enormous 8 million in donation is very telling of his character. There is a nobility when you do honest work and do your best to conduct good business. You live in a 1st world country with endless opportunities to make an honest living, but instead choose to be the Judas that your children will have to unfortunately learn from. 

    To the backers: There's a risk for everything, you put money in and hope for the best. So there is an argument to be made that this should have been expected. But there is also a assumption that your money would actually be used for the en devour being done and not mismanaged by an ape. I feel sorry and hope you guys can recoup your losses.

    Caspian, if you are reading this, this is the scummiest shit I've ever seen. I hope people sue and get ever single penny and more and leave you homeless.

    That's all folks!
    Post edited by OrangeBoy on
    Gdemami
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,908
    I definitely do not feel sorry for the backers.

    When you back a Kickstarter project, you donate. This means you spend money on a possibility that something may come out, but its nowhere near guaranteed that it will or that if it will, it will be anything close to what you wanted it to be.

    Then people kept buying titles, lands and other virtual crap for a project which showed clear signs of mismanagement and lacked any indication that there is any progress being achieved. 

    The world is a cruel place and if you are this gullible, then you are quite likely to lose money at some point.


    Lesson learned - dont donate money which you are not ready to write off and dont buy unfinished products when there is no guarantee you can get your money back and when there are signs which you can see from mile away that you may not get anything for your money. Unless again, you are ready to completely write the money off.  
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,006
    The only question I have is, has anyone seen any evidence of a company? Other team members? People actually doing something? I don't mean a picture of a "board room" with the Unreal Marketplace Parkour Pack playing on projector, I mean something REAL?

    Just curious.
    A year or so back they posted photos of their new studio, however it was devoid of any people.  In recent years their forums never contained any photos of "the team" hard at work, outside of the few conference room shots with a handful visible.

    I always wondered if many of the staff actually worked remotely, and questioned how many they actually had after laying off a third of them at the end of 2017.

    Caspian would always share info about new hires, but I suspect more often than not they were more to replace those who had left, but it was hard to tell as the roster was never fully shared in recent years.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,006
    kitarad said:
    Since this was a scam they need an audit. He should be made to account for every cent he spent. No one should be allowed to get away with this.
    I suspect his long recap in the State of Elyria of everything the team worked on or "accomplished" was in fact his first "shot across the bow" to show justification on where the money was spent.


    BrotherMaynard

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,265
    I am really hoping this and other games like this will be used to tighten up the kickstarter  rules and to introduce a 3 monthly requirement for all these crowdfunded games to give an account of where every penny collected is used. It's about time these scams are regulated properly.
    Gdemami

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 543
    Well I counted my money as lost when I hit pledge, if it was recovered I would ofc take a portion back happily but I doubt that will happen. 

    Now someone posted on the CoE discord that $8m divided by 20 without the cost of buildings equipment etc was 100k/year/employee.

    Take away say 2m for costs (doubt its that much but let's be fair). That's still a wage of 75k...

    Average wage for a game dev is 50k a year... 
    These guys were on to a good thing... 
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,920
    AnOldFart said:
    Well I counted my money as lost when I hit pledge, if it was recovered I would ofc take a portion back happily but I doubt that will happen. 

    Now someone posted on the CoE discord that $8m divided by 20 without the cost of buildings equipment etc was 100k/year/employee.

    Take away say 2m for costs (doubt its that much but let's be fair). That's still a wage of 75k...

    Average wage for a game dev is 50k a year... 
    These guys were on to a good thing... 
    I seriously doubt that there was any kind of even split. A POS like Caspian wouldn't treat his employees any better than his backers.

    He was a lying SOB to the very end, even blaming the shuttering on Covid-19.

    The truly sad thing about this is that gamers won't learn. A new Jeromy Walsh with a good line and totally bullshit projected release timelines will come along and will sucker in a new batch of "donors" who will spread out all over the internet and attack/insult any skeptics.

    Gamers have shown that there is nothing too unsavory or dodgy that they won't throw money at. And not just in crowdfunded games either. Their idiocy makes the slicker con-men in the AAA industry with their loot boxes and shit a fortune.

    So to all the backers who came here over the years to troll and harass the skeptics who have been telling you that there was something very wrong with COE, a big fuck you, dumb asses. You deserve this.

    As to Walsh, I truly hope he gets sued into homelessness but I seriously doubt that he will. The system is set-up to prevent it. I'm sure he has enough paper full of legal entanglements to make sure he comes out of this laughing all the way to the bank.
    coretex666kitaradBrotherMaynardAnOldFartMendel[Deleted User]EponyxDamorGdemamibcbully
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,908
    @SilverTongued @Gdemami ;

    Guys, wanna contribute to this thread?
    BrotherMaynardIselinSlapshot1188Deveron[Deleted User]
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,901
    That's a surprise, it seemed like they could go on forever (almost).

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,154
    edited March 2020
    @SilverTongued @Gdemami ;

    Guys, wanna contribute to this thread?
    Where is Gdemami the Chemical Ali of CoE? :)

    Seriously if any posters have lost money from this I hope it does not effect them badly, this is a way to lose faith entirely in MMOs, indeed any sort of CF project.
    coretex666bcbully

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,814
    Well I hope all the haters (AKA: Harbingers) are happy with this, as this seems to be what they wanted all along.

    I personally am amazed he kept trying for as long as he did.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,006
    edited March 2020
    Ungood said:
    Well I hope all the haters (AKA: Harbingers) are happy with this, as this seems to be what they wanted all along.

    I personally am amazed he kept trying for as long as he did.
    Actually no, I wanted to see him admit he was wrong, and apologize for his mistakes, but he held true to form right to the bitter end, it was everyone else's fault.

    The backers, the investors, the employees, the Harbingers, and finally, COVID‐19, clearly all were to blame for the game's failure. Not.
    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,814
    edited March 2020
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Well I hope all the haters (AKA: Harbingers) are happy with this, as this seems to be what they wanted all along.

    I personally am amazed he kept trying for as long as he did.
    Actually no, I wanted to see him admit he was wrong, and apologize for his mistakes, but he held true to form right to the bitter end, it was everyone else's fault.

    The backers, the investors, the employees, the Harbingers, and finally, COVID‐19, clearly all were to blame for the game's failure. Not.
    So even after hounding the man, insulting him, doing all you can to undermine him and his project. The continual mocking of anyone that supported him to the point that the game finally shuts down.. you're still not happy you did not get your pound of flesh.

    And you refuse to accept that after all the harassing on social media that the haters and harbingers did to him and his supporters, that you are in fact at least partly to blame for it's failure, and then turn around and expect him to shoulder the whole thing.

    I don't think any of you have the right to say shit about my issues with any other game.
    IselinKyleranEponyxDamorGdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,532
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Well I counted my money as lost when I hit pledge, if it was recovered I would ofc take a portion back happily but I doubt that will happen. 

    Now someone posted on the CoE discord that $8m divided by 20 without the cost of buildings equipment etc was 100k/year/employee.

    Take away say 2m for costs (doubt its that much but let's be fair). That's still a wage of 75k...

    Average wage for a game dev is 50k a year... 
    These guys were on to a good thing... 
    I seriously doubt that there was any kind of even split. A POS like Caspian wouldn't treat his employees any better than his backers.

    He was a lying SOB to the very end, even blaming the shuttering on Covid-19.

    The truly sad thing about this is that gamers won't learn. A new Jeromy Walsh with a good line and totally bullshit projected release timelines will come along and will sucker in a new batch of "donors" who will spread out all over the internet and attack/insult any skeptics.

    Gamers have shown that there is nothing too unsavory or dodgy that they won't throw money at. And not just in crowdfunded games either. Their idiocy makes the slicker con-men in the AAA industry with their loot boxes and shit a fortune.

    So to all the backers who came here over the years to troll and harass the skeptics who have been telling you that there was something very wrong with COE, a big fuck you, dumb asses. You deserve this.

    As to Walsh, I truly hope he gets sued into homelessness but I seriously doubt that he will. The system is set-up to prevent it. I'm sure he has enough paper full of legal entanglements to make sure he comes out of this laughing all the way to the bank.
    I agree with everything you posted except the last part.  I still think this was an instance of epic mismanagement and incompetence and not intentional fraud. I honestly think that he was convinced he would bring in millions with the latest land sale and even the stupid parkour demo. That’s what happens when you surround yourself with morons who ignore reality.  Those folks, in my mind, share culpability here. Some didn’t even put up their own money but just felt compelled to defend the studio and fight the “harbingers” at every turn.

    Some of those people are mentioned in this thread and others are posting in it.  Have a good long look in the mirror guys.  You contributed to this day.  You contributed to people losing $8M put into it.  You contributed to these people losing their jobs. You should think long and hard before posting agin.


    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • BrotherMaynardBrotherMaynard Member UncommonPosts: 214
    edited March 2020
    Kyleran said:
    kitarad said:
    Since this was a scam they need an audit. He should be made to account for every cent he spent. No one should be allowed to get away with this.
    I suspect his long recap in the State of Elyria of everything the team worked on or "accomplished" was in fact his first "shot across the bow" to show justification on where the money was spent.



    Yeah, pretty much. It's his preparation for the inevitable Lawyers of Elyria.

    One would expect that the "we're shutting this down" news would be the only thing worth posting.

    But as you go through it, it feels almost like ticking check boxes next to the kickstarter promises.

    Does not matter whether the bullet points half way down his post have actually been implemented (not in a releasable way and with no resemblance to what was promised); the fact that he wrote the post and formulated the bullet points in that specific way are his clear message to the courts that the 'minimum viable product' has been delivered and crowd funding promises have been met.

    His post has nothing to do with the game, nor with the backers and everything to do with his future lawyers.



    KyleranGdemami
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,289
    Sue these bastards
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,532
    bcbully said:
    Sue these bastards
    Wow... funny what a change 24 hours can bring.
    SensaiGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,532
    Kyleran said:
    kitarad said:
    Since this was a scam they need an audit. He should be made to account for every cent he spent. No one should be allowed to get away with this.
    I suspect his long recap in the State of Elyria of everything the team worked on or "accomplished" was in fact his first "shot across the bow" to show justification on where the money was spent.



    Yeah, pretty much. It's his preparation for the inevitable Lawyers of Elyria.

    One would expect that the "we're shutting this down" news would be the only thing worth posting.

    But as you go through it, it feels almost like ticking check boxes next to the kickstarter promises.

    Does not matter whether the bullet points half way down his post have actually been implemented (not in a releasable way and with no resemblance to what was promised); the fact that he wrote the post and formulated the bullet points in that specific way are his clear message to the courts that the 'minimum viable product' has been delivered and crowd funding promises have been met.

    His post has nothing to do with the game, nor with the backers and everything to do with his future lawyers.



    I think you give him too much credit.  The early portion of that reads much like all the other State of Elyria posts.  I think it was drafted weeks ago.  The last part about shutting down IMHO was just tacked on when they came to the (to them) unexpected realization that the sale was a failure and so was the parkour demo.

      
    KyleranGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 295
    Kyleran said:
    A year or so back they posted photos of their new studio, however it was devoid of any people.  In recent years their forums never contained any photos of "the team" hard at work, outside of the few conference room shots with a handful visible.

    I always wondered if many of the staff actually worked remotely, and questioned how many they actually had after laying off a third of them at the end of 2017.

    Caspian would always share info about new hires, but I suspect more often than not they were more to replace those who had left, but it was hard to tell as the roster was never fully shared in recent years.
    There was a weird, probably troll post last year. I can't remember it completely basically something like "I hired someone to look into SBS, they found no studio and no company. Also looking into Caspian, it's all lies etc etc". It was naturally deleted very soon into posting. 

    But like you said, they rarely show pictures of people working. Even without 10k videos. They most I saw was 4 or 5 people sitting around looking at crap on a screen. There really wasn't videos of showing people working. All we ever got in some DJs was "x y z are working on this" "a b c are working on this". But again, never any proof being shown off from either team.

    Personally this whole thing is just confusing to me. So take the last several months. Anyone with half a brain would know from a year back things are going badly. Do investors really not want to touch him or is it really he is a dickhead that won't accept help? That aside, DSS made them a fucking killing. How did they spend 1 million in less than a year? Even if they had nothing before that. 1mil just went.. in seconds. Then they needed Settlers of Elyria to also make a killing. But over just pushing it out or even cutting it and just selling the titles via their store. Then people can pick anywhere. They completely change the map, which takes too long and run themselves into the ground. 

    He then says it's all over because of the virus. Which makes less sense, because no one would buy in the first week. Most would wait until the last few days. 

    He also keep telling 10k people within the videos "oh we have enough cash to last us years". This was a question that often came up. Having a mod mate that did have an higher level of NDA. While he knew about this "demo" that came out. He had zero idea things were so bad. Which did they release this 'demo" to cover their arses? "Yeah see we were making a game, just run out of time". 

    And to finish it off. So they know they will need to close their doors. But still keep this auction up and still take peoples money. Just.. umm.. what? That has to be illegal right? 
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,920
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Well I counted my money as lost when I hit pledge, if it was recovered I would ofc take a portion back happily but I doubt that will happen. 

    Now someone posted on the CoE discord that $8m divided by 20 without the cost of buildings equipment etc was 100k/year/employee.

    Take away say 2m for costs (doubt its that much but let's be fair). That's still a wage of 75k...

    Average wage for a game dev is 50k a year... 
    These guys were on to a good thing... 
    I seriously doubt that there was any kind of even split. A POS like Caspian wouldn't treat his employees any better than his backers.

    He was a lying SOB to the very end, even blaming the shuttering on Covid-19.

    The truly sad thing about this is that gamers won't learn. A new Jeromy Walsh with a good line and totally bullshit projected release timelines will come along and will sucker in a new batch of "donors" who will spread out all over the internet and attack/insult any skeptics.

    Gamers have shown that there is nothing too unsavory or dodgy that they won't throw money at. And not just in crowdfunded games either. Their idiocy makes the slicker con-men in the AAA industry with their loot boxes and shit a fortune.

    So to all the backers who came here over the years to troll and harass the skeptics who have been telling you that there was something very wrong with COE, a big fuck you, dumb asses. You deserve this.

    As to Walsh, I truly hope he gets sued into homelessness but I seriously doubt that he will. The system is set-up to prevent it. I'm sure he has enough paper full of legal entanglements to make sure he comes out of this laughing all the way to the bank.
    I agree with everything you posted except the last part.  I still think this was an instance of epic mismanagement and incompetence and not intentional fraud. I honestly think that he was convinced he would bring in millions with the latest land sale and even the stupid parkour demo. That’s what happens when you surround yourself with morons who ignore reality.  Those folks, in my mind, share culpability here. Some didn’t even put up their own money but just felt compelled to defend the studio and fight the “harbingers” at every turn.

    Some of those people are mentioned in this thread and others are posting in it.  Have a good long look in the mirror guys.  You contributed to this day.  You contributed to people losing $8M put into it.  You contributed to these people losing their jobs. You should think long and hard before posting agin.


    It doesn't have to be fraud to take care of yourself first. Incompetence and looking out for #1 are not mutually exclusive especially if you have family and friends making you do it.

    Enough extra salary for yourself in your exalted role as CEO coupled with a few friend and family "contractors" in the weeds would be enough to leave his personal life smelling like roses despite his incompetence as a computer game project manager.

    Obviously IDK for sure but I have gotten an impression over the years that he really, really likes himself. Rewarding himself first and foremost would go hand in hand with that.
    [Deleted User]Gdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,698
    Surprised it took this long. 
    Ungood

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,532
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Well I counted my money as lost when I hit pledge, if it was recovered I would ofc take a portion back happily but I doubt that will happen. 

    Now someone posted on the CoE discord that $8m divided by 20 without the cost of buildings equipment etc was 100k/year/employee.

    Take away say 2m for costs (doubt its that much but let's be fair). That's still a wage of 75k...

    Average wage for a game dev is 50k a year... 
    These guys were on to a good thing... 
    I seriously doubt that there was any kind of even split. A POS like Caspian wouldn't treat his employees any better than his backers.

    He was a lying SOB to the very end, even blaming the shuttering on Covid-19.

    The truly sad thing about this is that gamers won't learn. A new Jeromy Walsh with a good line and totally bullshit projected release timelines will come along and will sucker in a new batch of "donors" who will spread out all over the internet and attack/insult any skeptics.

    Gamers have shown that there is nothing too unsavory or dodgy that they won't throw money at. And not just in crowdfunded games either. Their idiocy makes the slicker con-men in the AAA industry with their loot boxes and shit a fortune.

    So to all the backers who came here over the years to troll and harass the skeptics who have been telling you that there was something very wrong with COE, a big fuck you, dumb asses. You deserve this.

    As to Walsh, I truly hope he gets sued into homelessness but I seriously doubt that he will. The system is set-up to prevent it. I'm sure he has enough paper full of legal entanglements to make sure he comes out of this laughing all the way to the bank.
    I agree with everything you posted except the last part.  I still think this was an instance of epic mismanagement and incompetence and not intentional fraud. I honestly think that he was convinced he would bring in millions with the latest land sale and even the stupid parkour demo. That’s what happens when you surround yourself with morons who ignore reality.  Those folks, in my mind, share culpability here. Some didn’t even put up their own money but just felt compelled to defend the studio and fight the “harbingers” at every turn.

    Some of those people are mentioned in this thread and others are posting in it.  Have a good long look in the mirror guys.  You contributed to this day.  You contributed to people losing $8M put into it.  You contributed to these people losing their jobs. You should think long and hard before posting agin.


    It doesn't have to be fraud to take care of yourself first. Incompetence and looking out for #1 are not mutually exclusive especially if you have family and friends making you do it.

    Enough extra salary for yourself in your exalted role as CEO coupled with a few friend and family "contractors" in the weeds would be enough to leave his personal life smelling like roses despite his incompetence as a computer game project manager.

    Obviously IDK for sure but I have gotten an impression over the years that he really, really likes himself. Rewarding himself first and foremost would go hand in hand with that.
    I have frequently posted that I have a serious problem with him, a supposed entrepreneur, paying himself and potentially family members with "donations".  This was bad on a number of points, not the least of which was that it reduced the sense of urgency that most start-ups have. 


    MendelGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

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