Told you all, that the mentality of the players have change. The problem with the MMO genre is that the Developers dont actually understand why things are Successful and Why things fail in the MMO genre. Developers really dont know or understand the player base mentality shifts. Its hard to grasp because we humans and tend to have our own egos and think we know whats best, instead of actually stopping and looking at shifts.
Players don't have any better idea than Developers, it seems. What's happened to the gaming community is exactly as predicted by a few. They got tired of the same old rinse and repeat gaming. But most still can't quite understand that, and are shifting the cause to anything else because they don't want play anything else.
See the confusion? Don't want "that" anymore, but don't want anything else.
Personally I have no clue what games will take off and what won't....I look at games like Fortnite and instantly think utter crap, but it draws millions of players...I look at most mobile games and think they are garbage but they make millions also.....Really in 2020, I dont think anyone can say oen way or the other what will be successful....WoW redid classic because they knew they could make money.
When you talk about making money, well, there's the immediate results and the there's long term results. Which aren't all that "long term" away.
I worked for a retail outlet once and they upped their prices, saying that they still make more money even if they lose some business. In other words, sell 90% of what they did, but make enough extra money to end up making more than they used to because of the higher prices. This concept was all the rage in that industry, at the time. Everyone said so. BIG mistake. They made a little more the first few months, but their business got a bad rep for being high priced, and they slowly died.
That's similar to what happened to WoW. They doubled their business for a few months, but after 6 months they lost all of that, plus another 17% of their old business. I strongly suspect there was a disenchantment with WoW among that extra 17%, with players giving up on their ghost.
Told you all, that the mentality of the players have change. The problem with the MMO genre is that the Developers dont actually understand why things are Successful and Why things fail in the MMO genre. Developers really dont know or understand the player base mentality shifts. Its hard to grasp because we humans and tend to have our own egos and think we know whats best, instead of actually stopping and looking at shifts.
Players don't have any better idea than Developers, it seems. What's happened to the gaming community is exactly as predicted by a few. They got tired of the same old rinse and repeat gaming. But most still can't quite understand that, and are shifting the cause to anything else because they don't want play anything else.
See the confusion? Don't want "that" anymore, but don't want anything else.
Personally I have no clue what games will take off and what won't....I look at games like Fortnite and instantly think utter crap, but it draws millions of players...I look at most mobile games and think they are garbage but they make millions also.....Really in 2020, I dont think anyone can say oen way or the other what will be successful....WoW redid classic because they knew they could make money.
You are mistaking players for gamers. Just because millions play it does not make it a game that gamers would want to play. Someone who clocks up half an hour on Candy Crush every day has a totally different mindset to a gamer. But I agree with you that it is harder to work out what will be a success, players are a far harder group to define than gamers.
No idea but one thing is for sure still the biggest mmorpg playerbase.
True. What's also true is that there is no real alternative. Every MMORPG is based on the same concept of never changing level/gear grind. Some have added Scaling to try to fix some of the issues, but it's not actually a good answer.
Everyone, players and developers alike (with the rare exception), are afraid to move away from the D&D design. Which, I might add, is a design for Multiplayer, not Massively Multiplayer.
It's not that you have Progression, it's that it's tailor made for smallish groups of close friends rather than huge numbers of people supposedly coexisting.
I loved my time with it, but the problem with WoW was they made a theme park, not a world... so you play for a month, then you've completed it. You stuck around back in the day because what else was there online? You had Counter Strike and that was it.
Sadly there hasn't been an MMO since that I've sunk any time into. The last one I was so excited for was SWTOR, and I realised that sucked about 20 mins into it lol.
I'm still playing classic leveling up my dwarves and still having fun.
Exactly. It doesn't work for everyone. When p1999 launced in late 2009 or early 2010 I was there and LOVED it. I played off/on through 2012. It never let me down. I never said to myself "I thought was going to be great but it was terrible!" I was one of those people who posted in the everquest forums 2007-08 asking for a classic server, so I was thinking about it a LONG time ago. Same thing happened in 2012 when I played Wurm Online. WHY did I play it? Because it reminded me of the some of the mechanics in EQ AND bcause it reminded me of Ultima Online. I played UO in 1999 too. Wurm Online was VERY old school in its implementation. Lots of people hated it. I had a BLAST in Wurm ONline. What it taught me is either not everyone is affected by rose colored glasse, or maybe they never existed in the fist place. Some of us genuinely enjoy old skool. Some don't. Maybe the people who turn away now never really liked it in the first place, but it was never cemented until now.
I think devs understimate the understanding of some of their players and absolutely are mistaken about their conclusions about some things. Unfortunatley this is just how the world is.
I think for me it's more about gameplay than just content. I liked the way old everquest played, as opposed to just like a zone or the era content. Typically I liked what many players HATED. Corpse runs and no maps and coin weight and more reliance on other players and so on. But I didn't like EVERYTHING. Even back when I was asking for a classic server I'd discussed the probelms with camping. I've never liked the camping aspect where a player sits in one place and camps a PH. Another great example of something I do not like are Earthshaker pulls where one person pulls a zone and kills them to plvl group members. That boils down to mudflation and the problems MMORPGs face when the progression mountain builds up with the passing years.
The other thing is these games/MMO's are old. It's hard to play the same thing over and over. A lot of us want the old form of gameplay with a few added twists but IN A BRAND NEW WORLD.
Here it is, some 40+ years since MMORPGs first hit the market in a truly massive scale. By now, the topic of how to properly build and run a Player Run City, as well as how to play within that, should be among the biggest subjects. But it's nowhere to be seen.
The problem with your idea of "the village" is it assumes everyone can be happy in the same place helping each other. But it's naive. Even in a game like Quake 2 where there were no enforced power gaps (like levels), there were STILL power gaps. But how? Because players have different skill levels! Some players have a natural talent. Players who play longer will know the maps better and have better aim and anticipate their opponent better. They will SLAUGHTER the new players. The end result is it creates power gaps and can make players feel left out or overwhelmed. But what's different in Quake 2 is how it was solved--rather organically. Two things. First, clans formed. Second: just having different servers also helped. Players who got real good joined a clan of other players who were really good. Players joined other players who were on a similar skill level or showed aptitude. Then the clans competed against each other. And just having different servers meant you could find a server where you migh get your foot in the door.
The same thing happens in sandbox MMO's. Even without enforced power gaps (like stats or skills or something...), guilds that exist a long time will build a lot of fortresses and powerful items. These fortresses and items are power gaps. And also these guilds of plaeyrs will get extremely knowledgeable about the game and the world. They will not like to constantly baby a new player. They wnat challenges. What happens is the same challenges acceptable for new player are NOT for the veteran. This creates gaps. The new player will also not like being constantly berated or corrected and told what to do. Many new players like to learn on their own with limited instruction. On and on.
It goes on and on.
I'm not saying it's not worth trying. It is. Just remember that players of all skill levels want things to learn and to be challenged. By its nature, this creates power gaps. You can try wiping your server or something, but that has its own set of consequencews, and it's not perfect either because plaeyrs will still retain their knowledge about how to play the game--and all the people they'll know and rejoin after wipe.
It's true though. Many games add enforced power gaps but these are not REAL power gaps. They're enforced. What I'm trying to get across is there're fake power gaps and REAL power gaps. Just by removing fake power gaps doesn't automatically remove the probelm of power gaps.
You can try to dumb the game down so much that veterans are almost teh same thing as new players, but I fail to see how players will feel challenged. This might work for players who don't actually want challenges, but how many are there? Social types? People who only want to grief others? Creative types? People who can only spare 5 min per day?
Here it is, some 40+ years since MMORPGs first hit the market in a truly massive scale. By now, the topic of how to properly build and run a Player Run City, as well as how to play within that, should be among the biggest subjects. But it's nowhere to be seen.
The problem with your idea of "the village" is it assumes everyone can be happy in the same place helping each other. But it's naive. Even in a game like Quake 2 where there were no enforced power gaps (like levels), there were STILL power gaps. But how? Because players have different skill levels! Some players have a natural talent. Players who play longer will know the maps better and have better aim and anticipate their opponent better. They will SLAUGHTER the new players. The end result is it creates power gaps and can make players feel left out or overwhelmed. But what's different in Quake 2 is how it was solved--rather organically. Two things. First, clans formed. Second: just having different servers also helped. Players who got real good joined a clan of other players who were really good. Players joined other players who were on a similar skill level or showed aptitude. Then the clans competed against each other. And just having different servers meant you could find a server where you migh get your foot in the door.
The same thing happens in sandbox MMO's. Even without enforced power gaps (like stats or skills or something...), guilds that exist a long time will build a lot of fortresses and powerful items. These fortresses and items are power gaps. And also these guilds of plaeyrs will get extremely knowledgeable about the game and the world. They will not like to constantly baby a new player. They wnat challenges. What happens is the same challenges acceptable for new player are NOT for the veteran. This creates gaps. The new player will also not like being constantly berated or corrected and told what to do. Many new players like to learn on their own with limited instruction. On and on.
It goes on and on.
I'm not saying it's not worth trying. It is. Just remember that players of all skill levels want things to learn and to be challenged. By its nature, this creates power gaps. You can try wiping your server or something, but that has its own set of consequencews, and it's not perfect either because plaeyrs will still retain their knowledge about how to play the game--and all the people they'll know and rejoin after wipe.
It's true though. Many games add enforced power gaps but these are not REAL power gaps. They're enforced. What I'm trying to get across is there're fake power gaps and REAL power gaps. Just by removing fake power gaps doesn't automatically remove the probelm of power gaps.
You can try to dumb the game down so much that veterans are almost teh same thing as new players, but I fail to see how players will feel challenged. This might work for players who don't actually want challenges, but how many are there? Social types? People who only want to grief others? Creative types? People who can only spare 5 min per day?
First of all, just in case, I'm talking about PvE and PvW here, not PvP.
Secondly, Better players will do better? Really! Is there something new here?
Thirdly, the whole point is to make cooperation beneficial to the player, giving them all a reason to play in that spirit. Something totally missing in MMORPGs. I'm not talking "grouping" here, I'm talking about "a Village" where players are in constant links to their community. This isn't something seen in any MMORPGs that I know of. But, here's the big "BUT", it won't make players feel like they are forced. It's natural. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." With coded tools, plus a massive Guild-like unity. And game content to play towards that end.
So... - Certificates of coin, that act like Gift Cards with the player vendors - Tax rebates on properties - Tax rebates on purchases - Tax rebates on City owned mines and resource centers for players who labor there at a bonus production - Voting rights - Contracts - Fines for bad behavior - Bannings for bad behavior. - And of course, a player can leave for another city if they've felt "shunned" enough and don't want to cooperate. Better luck next time.
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I worked for a retail outlet once and they upped their prices, saying that they still make more money even if they lose some business. In other words, sell 90% of what they did, but make enough extra money to end up making more than they used to because of the higher prices. This concept was all the rage in that industry, at the time. Everyone said so.
BIG mistake. They made a little more the first few months, but their business got a bad rep for being high priced, and they slowly died.
That's similar to what happened to WoW.
They doubled their business for a few months, but after 6 months they lost all of that, plus another 17% of their old business.
I strongly suspect there was a disenchantment with WoW among that extra 17%, with players giving up on their ghost.
Once upon a time....
What's also true is that there is no real alternative.
Every MMORPG is based on the same concept of never changing level/gear grind.
Some have added Scaling to try to fix some of the issues, but it's not actually a good answer.
Everyone, players and developers alike (with the rare exception), are afraid to move away from the D&D design.
Which, I might add, is a design for Multiplayer, not Massively Multiplayer.
It's not that you have Progression, it's that it's tailor made for smallish groups of close friends rather than huge numbers of people supposedly coexisting.
Once upon a time....
Sadly there hasn't been an MMO since that I've sunk any time into. The last one I was so excited for was SWTOR, and I realised that sucked about 20 mins into it lol.
Secondly, Better players will do better? Really!
Is there something new here?
Thirdly, the whole point is to make cooperation beneficial to the player, giving them all a reason to play in that spirit. Something totally missing in MMORPGs.
I'm not talking "grouping" here, I'm talking about "a Village" where players are in constant links to their community. This isn't something seen in any MMORPGs that I know of.
But, here's the big "BUT", it won't make players feel like they are forced.
It's natural. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."
With coded tools, plus a massive Guild-like unity. And game content to play towards that end.
So...
- Certificates of coin, that act like Gift Cards with the player vendors
- Tax rebates on properties
- Tax rebates on purchases
- Tax rebates on City owned mines and resource centers for players who labor there at a bonus production
- Voting rights
- Contracts
- Fines for bad behavior
- Bannings for bad behavior.
- And of course, a player can leave for another city if they've felt "shunned" enough and don't want to cooperate. Better luck next time.
Once upon a time....