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The latest devblog. Forced PvP is gone.

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  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,100
    edited January 19
    Zegaloth said:
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 


    The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.

    Yall let yourselves down.
    The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched. 

    The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.

    Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
    UngoodZegaloth
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,994
    cheyane said:
    Zegaloth said:
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 


    The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.

    Yall let yourselves down.
    The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched. 

    The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.

    Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
    I will not play a MMORPG that has no PvP, but it is behaviour like this which has seen the demise of so many PvP servers. When the rules set changes or the server dies they move on like locusts to the next server/game which allows them to behave like murderous morons.

     25 Agrees

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  • JeffSpicoli214JeffSpicoli214 Newbie CommonPosts: 11
    Make PVE Great Again!
    Ungoodbng28
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,184
    edited January 19
    Scot said:
    cheyane said:
    Zegaloth said:
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 


    The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.

    Yall let yourselves down.
    The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched. 

    The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.

    Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
    I will not play a MMORPG that has no PvP, but it is behaviour like this which has seen the demise of so many PvP servers. When the rules set changes or the server dies they move on like locusts to the next server/game which allows them to behave like murderous morons.
    They did not say no PvP just special areas and nothing wrong with that. They said they found higher levels ganking lower level players, well, you lose the new players and the only ones left are bankers.

    Amazon is being open and upfront about this. I applaud them.
    UngoodRagnorWolverine


  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,021
    There was a time when you had groups of people who killed Player Killers. In fact, I believe it was UO who first encountered this type of gameplay. I guess now, it's no longer cool to gang up on the gankers, so we've gone back to square one of horrible gameplay in PvP.
    PalebaneAlomar

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,634
    "Forced" PvP. lol

    Nobody is "forcing" you to play. Or entitled to play every game ever released.

    Dead in 3 months.
    cheebaUngoodRagnorWolverine
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,021
    NorseGod said:
    "Forced" PvP. lol

    Nobody is "forcing" you to play. Or entitled to play every game ever released.

    Dead in 3 months.
    It would be DOA a lot sooner if they left it FFA PvP.
    ZegalothAsm0deusRagnorWolverineMartiander

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,923
    edited January 20
    cheyane said:
    Zegaloth said:
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 


    The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.

    Yall let yourselves down.
    The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched. 

    The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.

    Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
    Back in the day most of the mmorpg players were -both- computer nerds and d&d nerds. Two shared interests of a huge majority of players. Then WoW happened and the genre went mainstream. Anyone seen mainstream online media these days? Kek

    Sure there were still bad apples but I feel like they were held in check better by the smaller, closer-knit communities. PKs could be appreciated for the excitement and unpredictability they afforded, yet cheaters and disrespectful jerks were quickly run off.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,526
    Iselin said:
    centkin said:
    Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer.  It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios.  A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
    I remember instanced PvP that you had to queue for, but not open world PvP.  Was there open world PvP?
    Kind of, DAoC style. Zones had PvP "lakes" usually in the middle of the zone but the rest of the zone was PvE only. The higher level the zone, the bigger those PvP areas were with keeps that could be contested.

    You could sneak across into the enemy lands in some places.  I know I got some components in enemy lands for crafting that was very hard to get on the order side of things.
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,526
    Rhoklaw said:
    There was a time when you had groups of people who killed Player Killers. In fact, I believe it was UO who first encountered this type of gameplay. I guess now, it's no longer cool to gang up on the gankers, so we've gone back to square one of horrible gameplay in PvP.


    Being an anti was always a rough road.  You had to be really good while also using time you could have been improving yourself guarding others for no exp/etc.  Games have never rewarded antis. 

    Maybe one should be able to sign up as a sheriff in game and get benefits for this kind of activity.
    RhoklawAsm0deusPutrefee
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,994
    botrytis said:
    Scot said:
    cheyane said:
    Zegaloth said:
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 


    The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.

    Yall let yourselves down.
    The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched. 

    The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.

    Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
    I will not play a MMORPG that has no PvP, but it is behaviour like this which has seen the demise of so many PvP servers. When the rules set changes or the server dies they move on like locusts to the next server/game which allows them to behave like murderous morons.
    They did not say no PvP just special areas and nothing wrong with that. They said they found higher levels ganking lower level players, well, you lose the new players and the only ones left are bankers.

    Amazon is being open and upfront about this. I applaud them.
    I was only talking in general terms, about what the issues such players have caused MMOs in the past. Besides what I think about an upcoming game is bracketed with "Its not out yet so I hardly bother to look at what's going on anyway".:)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,119
    NorseGod said:
    "Forced" PvP. lol

    Nobody is "forcing" you to play. Or entitled to play every game ever released.

    Dead in 3 months.

    You're right, and that is exactly what happens, they say "Fuck this game, I'm out" and the game becomes a ghost town.

    And the Dev be like "Aww shite man, where all our payers go?, We need money to run this stupid thing ya know"

    They try to figure it out and be like: "Ball they don't like getting ganked, mocked, and shat on by  other players, who would have thunk it, and when we said ya know, love it or fuck off, we never really expected you to go fuck off, and take ya money with ya"


    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,146
    New Wo... WoW
  • EhliyaEhliya Member UncommonPosts: 220
    I am sorry to see this, as I think open world PVP can create a lot of fun.  But it takes a lot of effort by the game companies and they have to make money to survive.  Policing the toxic part of the player base - about 1 percent of any human population are sociopaths and sadists and I'd guess the numbers are higher in Internet MMOs with open world PVP  - demands efforts out of proportion to the reward.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,185
    edited January 20
    centkin said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    There was a time when you had groups of people who killed Player Killers. In fact, I believe it was UO who first encountered this type of gameplay. I guess now, it's no longer cool to gang up on the gankers, so we've gone back to square one of horrible gameplay in PvP.


    Being an anti was always a rough road.  You had to be really good while also using time you could have been improving yourself guarding others for no exp/etc.  Games have never rewarded antis. 

    Maybe one should be able to sign up as a sheriff in game and get benefits for this kind of activity.
    Indeed I have not really seen any games that does this well.  The best system I have seen was the blue name red name thing where if you killed peeps for no reason, as in to defend yourself, you went red name and the more red the more penalty to your stats until you worked it off in game grinding pve xp.

    If you killed red names you went blue named and suffered no penalties..that said this could still be exploited and griefers did so at times and both ways too.

    Have not see any pvp game where you could be a pker that worked for the "law" so to speak and received benefits for keeping pvers safer from pkers.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,119
    Ehliya said:
    I am sorry to see this, as I think open world PVP can create a lot of fun.  But it takes a lot of effort by the game companies and they have to make money to survive.  Policing the toxic part of the player base - about 1 percent of any human population are sociopaths and sadists and I'd guess the numbers are higher in Internet MMOs with open world PVP  - demands efforts out of proportion to the reward.
    Only takes one person to shit in the pool to ruin it for everyone else.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,146
    centkin said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    There was a time when you had groups of people who killed Player Killers. In fact, I believe it was UO who first encountered this type of gameplay. I guess now, it's no longer cool to gang up on the gankers, so we've gone back to square one of horrible gameplay in PvP.


    Being an anti was always a rough road.  You had to be really good while also using time you could have been improving yourself guarding others for no exp/etc.  Games have never rewarded antis. 

    Maybe one should be able to sign up as a sheriff in game and get benefits for this kind of activity.
    Indeed I have not really seen any games that does this well.  The best system I have seen was the blue name red name thing where if you killed peeps for no reason, as in to defend yourself, you went red name and the more red the more penalty to your stats until you worked it off in game grinding pve xp.

    If you killed red names you went blue named and suffered no penalties..that said this could still be exploited and griefers did so at times and both ways too.

    Have not see any pvp game where you could be a pker that worked for the "law" so to speak and received benefits for keeping pvers safer from pkers.
    Age of Wushu Constable (bounty hunter) system. 

    Have it read it will widen your perspective 

    http://www.ageofwushu.com/material/view/37
  • RylahRylah Member UncommonPosts: 194
    Here's the thing about PVP I've observed in every game but DAOC (which oddly had PVP right, although PVP still wasn't my bag).  High-level wolves gank low-level sheep ... mercilessly.  What I've also learned about MMO's is there are generally more "sheep" than "wolves" ... for a time.  The wolves run off all the sheep, then the game becomes niche, then it dies.

    Solution?  Make a PVP server for the "wolves" and let them gank each other.

    I'm a PVE player myself and am very pleased with the direction development is taking in this regard.

    The game was designed and developed as a PvP game. Now removing this aspect and throwing in some half assed PvE as a hindsight will not keep players on board.

    So essentially they destroyed the game for the PvPers and have no game to speak of for the PvEers.

    Good riddance.

    AlomarbcbullyChildoftheShadows
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,100
    I am willing to give them time to show us the PvE elements they have developed. I think that is fair to allow them them time to show us what they have but until then it is a firm no from me.
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,240
    Forced PvP you say?!?! Didn't know AGS was forcing you to play a game where going into you knew PvP was possible. You probably shouldn't play a game where the dev treats you like that btw.


    bcbully
    Haxus Council Member
    21  year MMO veteran 
    PvP Raid Leader 
    Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
  • Dev_GriffterDev_Griffter Member UncommonPosts: 1
    I must have seen countless ads for this game over the last couple years. I never bothered to pay any attention to it. The cinematics which are always meaningless were just ok, and the snippets of gameplay that I did see looked dull and honestly just uninspired.

    New World struck me as just one more nondescript title from an annoying developer buying space on my youtube feed. I didn't buy clash of clans either guys give it up already.

    A few days ago in a fit of nostalgia I decided to watch an old Darkfall pvp video. I always scroll down to the comments to see how many others are like me hanging on to the good old days.

    And that was when I saw it.

    Someone posting that they couldn't wait for the launch of a New World. The game designed for open world full loot pvp.

    OPEN WORLD

    PVP

    FULL LOOT

    damnit AMAZON with these words alone you've got more viral potential than corona.

    After Years. THE GAME. THE GEM I had missed. It was time. Gotta get the clan back together.


    Imagine my dismay when I found out the game I brushed off was actually the game I had been waiting for since 2013 when Aventurine decided to double cross their subscribers by releasing a game that no one wanted and then followed up by going bankrupt.

    I didn't really think the gameplay looked all that great, but I was so hyped for the PVP that I immediately went to the website to preorder and learn more about trying to get into a Beta. 

    Fast forward 5 minutes and a blog post later.

    Absolutely gutted.

    Before launch the developers have decided to remove player versus player from the game altogether.

    Absolutely gutted to find out that the developers have decided to not make the game after all.

    just gutted.

    Wish I could have played this one, for a moment anyway it seemed like it was going to be a good one.

    I guess my first impression was the correct one.


    Teilk
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 752
    Let's just hope character progression is really good. Otherwise, this game doesn't have a lot going for it.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,146
    Cant want to kill some skeletons for loot and levels! 
    ultimateduck
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,808
    Rylah said:
    Here's the thing about PVP I've observed in every game but DAOC (which oddly had PVP right, although PVP still wasn't my bag).  High-level wolves gank low-level sheep ... mercilessly.  What I've also learned about MMO's is there are generally more "sheep" than "wolves" ... for a time.  The wolves run off all the sheep, then the game becomes niche, then it dies.

    Solution?  Make a PVP server for the "wolves" and let them gank each other.

    I'm a PVE player myself and am very pleased with the direction development is taking in this regard.

    The game was designed and developed as a PvP game. Now removing this aspect and throwing in some half assed PvE as a hindsight will not keep players on board.

    So essentially they destroyed the game for the PvPers and have no game to speak of for the PvEers.

    Good riddance.

    PVP players destroyed the game for PVPers.....

    Strangely, it seems to happen a lot....
    ultimateduckUngood

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,119
    edited March 2
    Rylah said:
    Here's the thing about PVP I've observed in every game but DAOC (which oddly had PVP right, although PVP still wasn't my bag).  High-level wolves gank low-level sheep ... mercilessly.  What I've also learned about MMO's is there are generally more "sheep" than "wolves" ... for a time.  The wolves run off all the sheep, then the game becomes niche, then it dies.

    Solution?  Make a PVP server for the "wolves" and let them gank each other.

    I'm a PVE player myself and am very pleased with the direction development is taking in this regard.

    The game was designed and developed as a PvP game. Now removing this aspect and throwing in some half assed PvE as a hindsight will not keep players on board.

    So essentially they destroyed the game for the PvPers and have no game to speak of for the PvEers.

    Good riddance.

    PVP players destroyed the game for PVPers.....

    Strangely, it seems to happen a lot....
    Yup.. PvPers ruined this game by being spawn camping ganking assholes, put that blame where it belongs.

    If they were't assholes, Amazon never would have even thought to take the PvP out.

    That is why we can't have nice things.
    ultimateduckbcbully
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
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