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The latest devblog. Forced PvP is gone.

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  • raapnaapraapnaap Member UncommonPosts: 455
    edited January 18
    PvE players playing a PvP game: I don't like this game! Change it to what I want!

    PvP players playing a PvE game: (literally doesn't happen)

    I'm not going to go to their LotR game and demand open world PvP, yet the PvE crowd came to New World and demanded PvP removed. This will always be the big fundamental difference between the two sides, one is vocal and greedy, the other continues waiting patiently for decades on a game that is never coming.

    PvE players also continue to show their complete lack of understanding in regards to what PvP players actually want, and for most of them it is easier to just toss them into the 'griefer' category. Extremely disrespectful.
    SovrathAsm0deusBeezerbeezVarthanos1bigmilkPalebanebcbullytzervo
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,410
    raapnaap said:
    PvE players playing a PvP game: I don't like this game! Change it to what I want!

    PvP players playing a PvE game: (literally doesn't happen)

    I'm not going to go to their LotR game and demand open world PvP, yet the PvE crowd came to New World and demanded PvP removed. This will always be the big fundamental difference between the two sides, one is vocal and greedy, the other continues waiting patiently for decades on a game that is never coming.

    PvE players also continue to show their complete lack of understanding in regards to what PvP players actually want, and for most of them it is easier to just toss them into the 'griefer' category. Extremely disrespectful.

    Absolutely. They hone in on the people with huge issues and just say that everyone is like that.

    I'll add something to what you said about pve players and pvp playrs playing the "opposite" type of game.

    Seldom are there solely pvp games. usually there is some bit of pve that is required.

    Again, Lineage 2 had pve, it was how one leveled. I remember a large group of us standing around, ready for a raid (Lilith I think) and there were a small group of players complaining that they hated all of this and just wanted to pvp.

    Well, they had to suck it up. No way around it.

    Players need to understand what they are getting into. And if they can't concede that there will be aspects of the game they don't like (whether it's pvp or pve) then they should just move on.
    Octagon7711tzervo
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 2,224
    PvP Players: just make 2 servers PvP and PvE

    PvE Players: Why does no one pvp on our server?
    You got that backwards. It's usually the PvP servers that end up dead in games that have both server types, and it's also mainly PvE players who suggest sending PvPers to their own server to get rid of them.
    UngoodZegalothOctagon7711achesomaRexKushmanVarthanos1


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,138
    raapnaap said:
    PvE players playing a PvP game: I don't like this game! Change it to what I want!

    PvP players playing a PvE game: (literally doesn't happen)

    I'm not going to go to their LotR game and demand open world PvP, yet the PvE crowd came to New World and demanded PvP removed. This will always be the big fundamental difference between the two sides, one is vocal and greedy, the other continues waiting patiently for decades on a game that is never coming.

    PvE players also continue to show their complete lack of understanding in regards to what PvP players actually want, and for most of them it is easier to just toss them into the 'griefer' category. Extremely disrespectful.
    No, this is a byproduct of Developers trying to get PvE players into their PvP game, thinking that somehow magically these PvE players will learn to love PvP.. it Never Fucking Happens..

    The fact that the Devs thought it would shows they have little to no idea what they are doing and that is why their games ultimately fail.

    It's not PvP vs PvE, it's game developers not learning from the mistakes of the past.
    katzklawAsm0deusZegalothMendelOctagon7711Palebane
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • katzklawkatzklaw Member UncommonPosts: 85
    yep. so many games i've looked at, that were advertising hard on how awesome they were, and i looked at it thinking "yeah, that does look awesome..." until i get to the bit where it says open world open pvp.  the fact that this info is usually "hidden" somewhere in the game faq page (it's not right up front on the main page etc) means they're either clueless and trying to cast as wide a net as they can, which backfires (i know i typically walk away the second i see that "open world open pvp" thing), or they know what they are (really a pvp game) and are directly trying to lure people who don't typically pvp in hopes that they'll suddenly realize they love it (they almost always don't)

    but see, then what happens is, you'll have a group of non-pvpers who take a look at the game, think it's awesome, get really excited about it, and then realize it's pvp... and decide that instead of walking away (like i do) they're going to complain and campaign to have it changed. sometimes they get ignored, sometimes the game maker caves... making one group happy, but upsetting the other. 


    if you want to make a pvp game, and cater to the people who love and want pvp. you put right on the front page right in the main description... this game is for people who want to kick the shiz out of each other.  heck, put it in the name if you can. 

    UngoodOctagon7711
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    raapnaap said:
    PvE players playing a PvP game: I don't like this game! Change it to what I want!

    PvP players playing a PvE game: (literally doesn't happen)

    I'm not going to go to their LotR game and demand open world PvP, yet the PvE crowd came to New World and demanded PvP removed. This will always be the big fundamental difference between the two sides, one is vocal and greedy, the other continues waiting patiently for decades on a game that is never coming.

    PvE players also continue to show their complete lack of understanding in regards to what PvP players actually want, and for most of them it is easier to just toss them into the 'griefer' category. Extremely disrespectful.

    Lmao what a huge load of baloney......
    RoinRhiow-DarkstepkjempffPalebane

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    Ungood said:
    raapnaap said:
    PvE players playing a PvP game: I don't like this game! Change it to what I want!

    PvP players playing a PvE game: (literally doesn't happen)

    I'm not going to go to their LotR game and demand open world PvP, yet the PvE crowd came to New World and demanded PvP removed. This will always be the big fundamental difference between the two sides, one is vocal and greedy, the other continues waiting patiently for decades on a game that is never coming.

    PvE players also continue to show their complete lack of understanding in regards to what PvP players actually want, and for most of them it is easier to just toss them into the 'griefer' category. Extremely disrespectful.
    No, this is a byproduct of Developers trying to get PvE players into their PvP game, thinking that somehow magically these PvE players will learn to love PvP.. it Never Fucking Happens..

    The fact that the Devs thought it would shows they have little to no idea what they are doing and that is why their games ultimately fail.

    It's not PvP vs PvE, it's game developers not learning from the mistakes of the past.

    Another thing is the same effing shite happens in pve games where suddenly pvp is a thing, I have always been a firm believer of pve and pvp don't effing mix cause one or the other suffers for it.

    Also why not have pve and pvp servers? 

    I remember games where you could log into a pve server one day to just chill and do your pve thing without too much hassle then the next day log in and choose a pvp server to run amock and do what ever then log in the next day back into the pve server to work off some red name pvp penalties etc etc.


    Ungood

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,112
    Is this game a casualty of the people campaigning for a change or the developers just deciding they were better off removing the FFA PvP?  

    I think people who keep saying PvE players are responsible for their PvP games being changed need to actually look at why the developers change their games. GREED! You cannot cater to both but they keep trying to and failing miserably.
    Asm0deusPalebanetzervo
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • ZegalothZegaloth Member UncommonPosts: 223
    edited January 18
    Sovrath said:
    Hariken said:
    Aragoni said:

    My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

    Why is it that PVPer's need to have open-world PVP. PVP is still in the game only you face off against like-minded players. What is this need to gank other players that don't want to PVP?. You get to gank other PVP players to test your own skill, not a non-pvp player that is just an easy kill unless that is what you really want.

    Your making a lot of assumptions.

    Sure, there are poisonous people who get off on ruining other's play time. No argument there. But that's "another thing."

    They are kind of the outliers.

    Open world pvp is more about "anything can happen at any time."

    It's the surprise in the game. It's the danger. And as I've said before, having every player have the same shared experience is important. That's why I'm not necessarily a fan of instances where you can pick your difficulty.

    Also, per the title of this thread, there's no such thing as forced pvp. Period. There's only "such thing" as a person buying a game that has a rule set they don't like. Or want.

    You can't partake in something where the rules, the experience, the events are advertised and then saying they are forced on you.

    It's like going to a water park and complaining you get wet. "It's forced!" I should be able to go on rides and not get wet."





    According to the data the devs had there were enough griefers ganking lower level players to where it was a big problem.

    Sorry that the outliers have ruined yet another PvP centric MMORPG, but that's how it always goes with PvP centric MMORPG's.

    Your water park analogy doesn't really fit. It would be like going to a water park, and some of the biggest guys in there grabbing you, and repeatedly holding you under the water, but I guess I should have just brought bigger, and stronger friends to keep me from being water boarded...
    Nobody goes to a water park and doesn't want to get wet, but they need to be getting wet at their comfort level, not yours.
    MendelcheyaneOctagon7711UngoodHarikenRoinAsm0deusPalebane
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,823
    Zegaloth said:
    Sovrath said:
    Hariken said:
    Aragoni said:

    My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

    Why is it that PVPer's need to have open-world PVP. PVP is still in the game only you face off against like-minded players. What is this need to gank other players that don't want to PVP?. You get to gank other PVP players to test your own skill, not a non-pvp player that is just an easy kill unless that is what you really want.

    Your making a lot of assumptions.

    Sure, there are poisonous people who get off on ruining other's play time. No argument there. But that's "another thing."

    They are kind of the outliers.

    Open world pvp is more about "anything can happen at any time."

    It's the surprise in the game. It's the danger. And as I've said before, having every player have the same shared experience is important. That's why I'm not necessarily a fan of instances where you can pick your difficulty.

    Also, per the title of this thread, there's no such thing as forced pvp. Period. There's only "such thing" as a person buying a game that has a rule set they don't like. Or want.

    You can't partake in something where the rules, the experience, the events are advertised and then saying they are forced on you.

    It's like going to a water park and complaining you get wet. "It's forced!" I should be able to go on rides and not get wet."





    According to the data the devs had there were enough griefers ganking lower level players to where it was a big problem.

    Sorry that the outliers have ruined yet another PvP centric MMORPG, but that's how it always goes with PvP centric MMORPG's.

    Your water park analogy doesn't really fit. It would be like going to a water park, and some of the biggest guys in there grabbing you, and repeatedly holding you under the water, but I guess I should have just brought bigger, and stronger friends to keep me from being water boarded...
    Nobody goes to a water park and doesn't want to get wet, but they need to be getting wet at their comfort level, not yours.

    Good point, @Zegaloth.  If I were in a more cantankerous mood, I'd have said something different about pools.  I'll just leave it to anyone curious to look up a video of pertinent scenes from the Caddyshack movie on their own.  It's for their own edification.  o:)

    I like pointing out that a PvP play style is intrusive in an open world environment.  The PvP player can impose their style of play on PvE players at will, controlling the time, location, and nature of engagements.  The PvE player can't similarly force the PvP player to sit down and listen to a bard in a tavern, or go hunting for wolf spleens.  Imagine the outcry if they could!



    ZegalothRoinAsm0deusPalebane

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • APRIMEAPRIME Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Zegaloth said:
    Sovrath said:
    Hariken said:
    Aragoni said:

    My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

    Why is it that PVPer's need to have open-world PVP. PVP is still in the game only you face off against like-minded players. What is this need to gank other players that don't want to PVP?. You get to gank other PVP players to test your own skill, not a non-pvp player that is just an easy kill unless that is what you really want.

    Your making a lot of assumptions.

    Sure, there are poisonous people who get off on ruining other's play time. No argument there. But that's "another thing."

    They are kind of the outliers.

    Open world pvp is more about "anything can happen at any time."

    It's the surprise in the game. It's the danger. And as I've said before, having every player have the same shared experience is important. That's why I'm not necessarily a fan of instances where you can pick your difficulty.

    Also, per the title of this thread, there's no such thing as forced pvp. Period. There's only "such thing" as a person buying a game that has a rule set they don't like. Or want.

    You can't partake in something where the rules, the experience, the events are advertised and then saying they are forced on you.

    It's like going to a water park and complaining you get wet. "It's forced!" I should be able to go on rides and not get wet."





    According to the data the devs had there were enough griefers ganking lower level players to where it was a big problem.

    Sorry that the outliers have ruined yet another PvP centric MMORPG, but that's how it always goes with PvP centric MMORPG's.

    Your water park analogy doesn't really fit. It would be like going to a water park, and some of the biggest guys in there grabbing you, and repeatedly holding you under the water, but I guess I should have just brought bigger, and stronger friends to keep me from being water boarded...
    Nobody goes to a water park and doesn't want to get wet, but they need to be getting wet at their comfort level, not yours.
    No, I'd say it's like a normal dude that wants to learn karate for self defense, goes to a dojo and as soon as he sets foot inside, gets a roundhouse to the face and punched in the crotch repeatedly as he tries to get up.  Then the black belt attackers are like "Git gud bro, you knew this was a karate dojo when you came in, karate happened".
    ZegalothRoinbigmilkPalebaneVynt
  • achesomaachesoma Member RarePosts: 1,227
    Good news, everyone!!!
    Image result for pantheon mmo banners
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,297
    Can't help but laugh at the responses by bcbully.  He's been telling us for years how in-demand open PvP is in MMO's, despite all the evidence to the contrary.  With "bully" in his name, I wonder which side of the ganking equation he enjoys finding himself on.
    UngoodRexKushmanRoinZegalothAsm0deusOG_ZorvanPalebane
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,297
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    RexKushmanUngoodRoinAsm0deusOG_ZorvanPalebane
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,039
    I was excited long ago when this was an MMO title.

    Then it turned into another PvP Sandbox, I lost interest entirely.

    Even without "forced PvP", I'm still not entirely certain that online sandbox is what I'm interested in. 

    For those that are - that's fine, I hope you like it. Just not my cup of tea.
  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 583
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 
    UngoodReallyNow10ZegalothAsm0deusOG_ZorvanPalebaneRidelynn

  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,526
    Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer.  It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios.  A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,297
    centkin said:
    Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer.  It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios.  A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
    I remember instanced PvP that you had to queue for, but not open world PvP.  Was there open world PvP?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    centkin said:
    Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer.  It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios.  A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
    I remember instanced PvP that you had to queue for, but not open world PvP.  Was there open world PvP?
    Kind of, DAoC style. Zones had PvP "lakes" usually in the middle of the zone but the rest of the zone was PvE only. The higher level the zone, the bigger those PvP areas were with keeps that could be contested.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
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    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,649
    I was in alpha , this game was basically attempting to draw in the Ark crowd and finally realized that most players that are playing ark are doing so for pve now.  From CE to ARk to any of the myriad of other clones all these games start out fresh with full pvp servers until a guild or two gets so huge in power they run off everyone else and the members get bored and run around ganking anyone they see. This was a smart design decision regardless of the few people crying about it here. You allow people to run around ganking low level players and people new to the game , you got a dead game in six months and a company out of thousands of dollars.
    ArglebargleVarthanos1ZegalothAsm0deusUngood
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,297
    cronius77 said:
    I was in alpha , this game was basically attempting to draw in the Ark crowd and finally realized that most players that are playing ark are doing so for pve now.  From CE to ARk to any of the myriad of other clones all these games start out fresh with full pvp servers until a guild or two gets so huge in power they run off everyone else and the members get bored and run around ganking anyone they see. This was a smart design decision regardless of the few people crying about it here. You allow people to run around ganking low level players and people new to the game , you got a dead game in six months and a company out of thousands of dollars.
    Millions of dollars!
    Ungood
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Open World PvP is still the best method. Forced combat is great and exciting. I'm old school I guess.
     
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,495
    bigmilk said:
    Hariken said:
    Yeah but this is making the game about you and what PVPer's want right? How can you even call it a shared experience at all? It's giving you what you want not what a PVE player wants. So an opt-in option would be more of a shared experience. It gives everyone what they want.
    Wow, you are obtuse. A shared experience means that everyone participates in the SAME experience. In this case Sovrath is talking about a PvP experience. Opt-in/out divides the players. You have to be mentally lazy to not understand that "giving everyone what they want" is NOT a shared experience.
    This is why I will never understand PVP player logic. This whole statement just sounds insane to me. I don't even think you read what I said.  Your only hearing what's in your head. To you, it's a shared experience but to a PVE player, it's a forced experience.
    RoinAsm0deuscheeba
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    Open World PvP is still the best method. Forced combat is great and exciting. I'm old school I guess.
    Nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with PVP and PVE servers to satisfy everyone.
    Asm0deus
  • ZegalothZegaloth Member UncommonPosts: 223
    A shocking quote from the linked article:

    One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
    And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault. 


    The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.

    Yall let yourselves down.
    Asm0deuscheyanePalebanecronius77RexKushman
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