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The latest devblog. Forced PvP is gone.

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,928
    edited January 2020
    raapnaap said:
    Alienated their PvP audience and attempting to attract a new PvE audience in... 6 months time, and similar development time.

    Yeah, no. Refunded.

    What a shame. I actually though that for the first time in a decade, someone was going to make a proper open world PvP MMO. Sure, alpha had issues, it was early days... But of all the excellent feedback they received, they opted to go with the nuclear option.
    Err, didn't most people "buy" this game for free back in the day.

    So you refunded nothing?

    Unless you recently bought it, but that would be silly knowing theres a free beta coming up where you could make a decision before purchasing, which surely you wouldn't do, right?

    Or did your inner ganker get the best of you?

     :D 
    gervaise1[Deleted User]

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  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member RarePosts: 614
    Don't know how people expected a mmorpg out of this game, it was only in development for 1-2 years and while yes, I'd like a Darkfall mmorpg again, the truth is wolves always force the sheep to leave. There should be zone with high yield/rare resources only obtainable there where the game flags you upon entering, it shouldn't just be 1 zone.

    Which brings my next point: Survival game survival based on the harvest(pve), build, raid loop if you take out the main draw for the genre which is the pvp; what else is there to do in game? Stab something over and over because the A I and the game won't have complex pve interactions due to engine limitations from not being designed as a mmorpg from the ground up?

    It takes more than a high player count ,throwing some pve and questing to truly be a mmorpg, there are deep mechanics on almost every facet from the resource trading to player builds and everything else in between.

    The maybe could have go more into a mmorpg direction, but removing pvp and conflict is not a good start, instead they should have added steep penalties(being unable to enter a half assed trade market wasn't) as well as adding things like factions to facilitate helping others instead of just killing everything and everyone(like survival games do)

    MurderHerd

  • fanglofanglo Member UncommonPosts: 314
    This is what happened to me, I started the game played for a little bit then got ganked and lost all my stuff. Came back a bit wiser and the next time I was attacked I was a bit more prepared. The only problem is that when the next guy attacked me because I was low level and had no ranged weopons and no CC when things started going south for him he just ran away from me. There was literally nothing I could do at that point to secure the kill against this ganker. So the risk for him to attempt to gank people was nearly non-existent.
    gervaise1Grintch

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Don't know how people expected a mmorpg out of this game, it was only in development for 1-2 years and while yes, I'd like a Darkfall mmorpg again, <snip>
    We have no idea how long New World has been in "development". Also building a game i snot the same as building a game and an engine.

    I suggest you provide the key to your answer though. Darkfall - which took a long time - was done by a small team. Whereas lot of people working together can do things very fast.
  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,591
    I played this back in Alpha and I am so happy they are getting rid of the "Forced" Part.

    After reading many replies above and see those who are "Not buying" or "Refunding" or whatever sentence they use to display their distaste of not being able to gank anymore, I must say YOU have not played the Game or seen the terrible PvP aspect the Game HAD.

    I'm excited to see what the "MMO" version has in store since they are revamping it pretty much from the ground.
    For those that have the need to Gank....Good riddance! :)

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Wizardry said:
    Did the team learn from the past 20 years or simply forced by their investors...Amazon,citing it as more a business decision than a game design decision?

    Even still,you NEED or must have a solid product in place first,the flags come after.I do not see a solid product ....yet,they still have time to deliver so ,let's see.
    You do indeed need a solid game. Neither you - nor I - have any idea how solid this product will be however.

    Nor do we have any idea what Amazon Game Studios business objectives are. If this was EA or Activision Blizzard then it would be simply: make money. They are part of a bigger picture though and consequently the objectives are probably more complicated.  For example:

    - We know that one objective is for the games to play nice with Twitch. Presumably this means making it possible to run Twitch and an AGS game on a lower spec. machine. Making it possible to have many more streamers. Potentially increasing ad revenue and at the same time promoting AWS games. So indirect revenue via Twitch / advertsing.
    - We know that devs can sign up for Lumberyard and get all the tools etc. at no charge reducing their upfront costs. Amazon are quite open about how they will make money - via Amazon Web Services. Any game that AGS make can therefore be thought of as advertising (showcasing) Lumberyard potentially driving revenue to AWS. So indirect revenue via AWS.
    - Amazon sell stuff. A part of the bigger picture might be to get a bigger slice of the game market just think of Epic's moves. It would be Amazon selling more games though not AWS. Again indirect revenue via the Amazon store.

    Indirect revenue. Indirect revenue. Indirect revenue. And there are probably more links. Amazon Prime links maybe, promoting TV shows via games which promotes Prime, developing IPs for future TV shows. Indeed its worth thinking about their move into TV; they have shown a willingness to kill stuff they decided didn't work but that hasn't stopped their drive into TV.

    Now I am not suggesting that AGS will be allowed to simply burn money and run at a loss. One of the things that Jeff Bezos has shown a willingness to undertake however is long term investments. To grow Amazon. Often to the annoyance of "investors".

    Sounds odd doesn't it - investors not being happy about a company investing in its future!


    So, I suggest, when you throw out the term "business decision" it may be much more complicated when it comes to AGS than it is with e.g. EA, A-B. 
    GrandpaDJ
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Wouldnt it be better if they came up with some interesting way to regulate pvp instead of just disallowing it?

    I am mostly a pve player, but it just breaks the immersion so much for me when I cannot hit other participants in the online world just because of some artificial force.

    Looking forward to having some kids in the game running around me calling me a **** knowing they are safe because of the lack of retaliation. 


    If you manage to come up with a way of doing this you could make a lot of money. 
  • IlayaIlaya Member UncommonPosts: 661
    I like that the forced PvP is gone. I played DaoC and loved PvP back then as i was younger *cough* but now.....i love PvE more and so i can take a look how the Game is. From my perspective a nice move.
    Grintchkitarad
  • HuntrezzHuntrezz Member UncommonPosts: 92
    They just eliminated a deal breaker for a plethora of potential players.
    Grintchbentrim
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 1,114
    It's been stated here many times. Forced PvP doesn't work, especially full loot PvP. A majority of people who play are casual players. They don't want to get ganked repeatedly by some bored power gamer.

    I think Open world PvP is important, but it has to be an open world away from the main world that a player chooses to participate in. Not many games have successfully pulled this off.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,224
    bcbully said:
    Dead game.

    lets see how long these 20 anti-pvp’r keep
    it alive
    If there are only 20 Anti-PvP's in the game, why wouldn't all the other players who are looking for a PvP game keep all the players looking for a PvP game occupied. 

    As I see it, the game will be better, as only the people that want to gank PvE players will be upset by this feature, and to be honest, and every game is better off without those players IMHO.
    DeadSpock
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • RaapnaapRaapnaap Member UncommonPosts: 455
    edited January 2020
    Kyleran said:
    raapnaap said:
    Alienated their PvP audience and attempting to attract a new PvE audience in... 6 months time, and similar development time.

    Yeah, no. Refunded.

    What a shame. I actually though that for the first time in a decade, someone was going to make a proper open world PvP MMO. Sure, alpha had issues, it was early days... But of all the excellent feedback they received, they opted to go with the nuclear option.
    Err, didn't most people "buy" this game for free back in the day.

    So you refunded nothing?

    Unless you recently bought it, but that would be silly knowing theres a free beta coming up where you could make a decision before purchasing, which surely you wouldn't do, right?

    Or did your inner ganker get the best of you?

     :D 
    I pre-ordered on steam for 40 euros, I wasn't a special snowflake and didn't get a free pass. I pre-ordered on the assumption I was buying the game as originally advertised. Then they revealed the 180 degree turn, and last night, confirmed it. Why would I support a game I do not want?

    I never grief new players, it is not why this genre appeals to me, not in the slightest.

    It is the personalized conflict aspect that appeals to me, the sense on never being able to expect what happens, and when a conflict does occur, it would be player driven, personal, relevant, memorable. There have been games that survived for decades on this alone.

    New World is no longer one of them.

    Enjoy your new PvE game... Do not come crying a month after release when you find out you got nothing to do in it.
  • prizm1234prizm1234 Member UncommonPosts: 109
    people who brag about being good at pvp in mmos cant hack real pvp in games designed for it. mmo pvp is trash and always will be.
    Ungood[Deleted User]DeadSpock

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  • GroqstrongGroqstrong Member RarePosts: 746
    PvP Players: just make 2 servers PvP and PvE

    PvE Players: Why does no one pvp on our server?
    bentrim
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,256
    No one saw my post or answered my question. :/

    Why are games like Fortnite or PUBG so popular? Full loot PvP works so do you lose a lot in Fortnite or PUBG and can you get back up fast was my question. I've never played them so have no idea so I am curious and my opinion is that games where you tend to lose a lot of time or gear when full loot PvP is in force will not be successful and wish to know if I am right about these two games.

    I am aware that you may lose a fortune in EVE but I also read that type of sting takes very long to set up. I also hear people don't fly what you cannot afford to lose leading me to believe people play very carefully. That was the same in Everquest you played carefully there too and could lose everything if you're not careful in it's early days albeit it was a PvE game.

  • Adam1902Adam1902 Member UncommonPosts: 537
    So they turned it into another carebear MMO, this is such a shame.

    Couldn't they at least have certain areas of the world with open PvP and looting (at least inventory looting)? Maybe the "best" gear could require materials gathered from these types of areas.

    I just need the rush of an open PvP MMO again, these days I tend to play survival games for that (Conan Exiles, RUST, etc). This game, is no longer a survival MMO; it's your typical treadmill now. Simply invest "time" for "rewards". No risk, no "gambling" feel, no wins and losses from other people. Just run the treadmill, get stuff. Yay. Boring.

    No reason to group up / join clans for safety, no reason for the trader/gatherer/crafter to roll with PvPers for safety etc and a lot of MMO / community / sandbox dynamics just won't be preasent here anymore.

    I do however like the schedualed, player capped fights for territory control. They had this in Albion Online and it worked great. Prevents nerds / zergs from seiging you at 3am. However I really want some form of open world risk-based PvP. The rush of sneaking up on someone to gank, and the fear of being ganked.

    Didn't Amazon purchase the license for a Lords of the Rings MMO & TV series? I was under the impression that in terms of their MMOs, LOTR was going to be for the little b... Feint of heart casuals, and New World was going to be a more "open" hardcore experience.

    Will still be trying it out, but I'm severely dissapointed.

    Another gear treadmill with no rush, no risk. Yay. Just like the rest.
    [Deleted User]

    _________
    Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)

    Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,322
    Adam1902 said:
    So they turned it into another carebear MMO, this is such a shame.

    Couldn't they at least have certain areas of the world with open PvP and looting (at least inventory looting)? Maybe the "best" gear could require materials gathered from these types of areas.

    I just need the rush of an open PvP MMO again, these days I tend to play survival games for that (Conan Exiles, RUST, etc). This game, is no longer a survival MMO; it's your typical treadmill now. Simply invest "time" for "rewards". No risk, no "gambling" feel, no wins and losses from other people. Just run the treadmill, get stuff. Yay. Boring.

    No reason to group up / join clans for safety, no reason for the trader/gatherer/crafter to roll with PvPers for safety etc and a lot of MMO / community / sandbox dynamics just won't be preasent here anymore.

    I do however like the schedualed, player capped fights for territory control. They had this in Albion Online and it worked great. Prevents nerds / zergs from seiging you at 3am. However I really want some form of open world risk-based PvP. The rush of sneaking up on someone to gank, and the fear of being ganked.

    Didn't Amazon purchase the license for a Lords of the Rings MMO & TV series? I was under the impression that in terms of their MMOs, LOTR was going to be for the little b... Feint of heart casuals, and New World was going to be a more "open" hardcore experience.

    Will still be trying it out, but I'm severely dissapointed.

    Another gear treadmill with no rush, no risk. Yay. Just like the rest.

    Amazon is all about the income.  PvE games tend to do better financially than PvP games, with more longevity.  Additionally, PvP games require more support to deal with player-created issues.  Amazon changed the direction of New World in order to make more money.



    Adam1902bcbullyDeadSpock

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,224
    kitarad said:
    No one saw my post or answered my question. :/

    Why are games like Fortnite or PUBG so popular? Full loot PvP works so do you lose a lot in Fortnite or PUBG and can you get back up fast was my question. I've never played them so have no idea so I am curious and my opinion is that games where you tend to lose a lot of time or gear when full loot PvP is in force will not be successful and wish to know if I am right about these two games.

    I am aware that you may lose a fortune in EVE but I also read that type of sting takes very long to set up. I also hear people don't fly what you cannot afford to lose leading me to believe people play very carefully. That was the same in Everquest you played carefully there too and could lose everything if you're not careful in it's early days albeit it was a PvE game.
    As someone that enjoyed Fortnight. The thing it, it's fast come, and fast go. You don't spend hours, months, years, collecting your gear. You got your 10 minute game to rush in and gather as you go, and fight till you win or die.

    That is what makes it fun, the game is about the thrill of the Fight, in the PvP itself is what shines. You are not stuck in some long ass PvE gathering process to collect gear, or make some perfect build, or any of that.

    Fortnight is a PvP game, pure, honest, brutal, and to the point. We go in and fight till the last person is standing, no BS, no Carebears, No one has any misconceptions about what is about to happen when they jump off that Bus, you will fight till you die, everything else in the game is just a means to that swift end.

    It's really beautiful in it's own way.
    Iselin
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,655
    Aragoni said:

    My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

    Why is it that PVPer's need to have open-world PVP. PVP is still in the game only you face off against like-minded players. What is this need to gank other players that don't want to PVP?. You get to gank other PVP players to test your own skill, not a non-pvp player that is just an easy kill unless that is what you really want.
    PalebaneMagikarpsGhost[Deleted User]
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    edited January 2020
    Amazon also realizes that forced PvP games do not survive long term since only gankers and PvP nuts will play long term and that is a very minute section of gamers.


    I give them credit for this. Let's see how it comes out before judging. I know people like to pre-judge, as it is built in to our psyche, but I am taking a wait and see.


  • Adam1902Adam1902 Member UncommonPosts: 537
    edited January 2020
    Mendel said:
    Adam1902 said:
    So they turned it into another carebear MMO, this is such a shame.

    Couldn't they at least have certain areas of the world with open PvP and looting (at least inventory looting)? Maybe the "best" gear could require materials gathered from these types of areas.

    I just need the rush of an open PvP MMO again, these days I tend to play survival games for that (Conan Exiles, RUST, etc). This game, is no longer a survival MMO; it's your typical treadmill now. Simply invest "time" for "rewards". No risk, no "gambling" feel, no wins and losses from other people. Just run the treadmill, get stuff. Yay. Boring.

    No reason to group up / join clans for safety, no reason for the trader/gatherer/crafter to roll with PvPers for safety etc and a lot of MMO / community / sandbox dynamics just won't be preasent here anymore.

    I do however like the schedualed, player capped fights for territory control. They had this in Albion Online and it worked great. Prevents nerds / zergs from seiging you at 3am. However I really want some form of open world risk-based PvP. The rush of sneaking up on someone to gank, and the fear of being ganked.

    Didn't Amazon purchase the license for a Lords of the Rings MMO & TV series? I was under the impression that in terms of their MMOs, LOTR was going to be for the little b... Feint of heart casuals, and New World was going to be a more "open" hardcore experience.

    Will still be trying it out, but I'm severely dissapointed.

    Another gear treadmill with no rush, no risk. Yay. Just like the rest.

    Amazon is all about the income.  PvE games tend to do better financially than PvP games, with more longevity.  Additionally, PvP games require more support to deal with player-created issues.  Amazon changed the direction of New World in order to make more money.




    Yeah I obviously can't disagree with this one.

    But they could still have a mix of both playstyles in different areas of the world. Items require multiple different materials to craft in this game, if some "high-tier" items required some materials from "lawless" areas of the game, a PvP-dodging player could still obtain these through trading.

    I'm not even asking for a massive area of the world here, even if it was 10% of the world I'd be pretty satisfied just to have this sort of content preasent in a massive budget MMO game.

    New World is obviously going to be a great game, and I was even more excited that it was going to be giving me "those feels" that only an open PvP with looting MMO can give (or a survival game with large player-cap on the servers). They have gained a following of a lot of other players like me, PK-style / survival game players (they even advertised it as a survival MMO)... They've completely 180'd on that.

    If it's just a gear treadmill, people of this play-style might play for a little while, get to "endgame" (all these treadmill games do end), then be done with it in a month if they have no life, maybe 2 or 3 months tops for older players?

    They can still implement some form of risk vs reward content (find a way to make it optional, but required so that peoples effort here is rewarded), and appeal to the masses I'm sure?
    etlar

    _________
    Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)

    Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,534
    kitarad said:
    No one saw my post or answered my question. :/

    Why are games like Fortnite or PUBG so popular? Full loot PvP works so do you lose a lot in Fortnite or PUBG and can you get back up fast was my question. I've never played them so have no idea so I am curious and my opinion is that games where you tend to lose a lot of time or gear when full loot PvP is in force will not be successful and wish to know if I am right about these two games.

    I am aware that you may lose a fortune in EVE but I also read that type of sting takes very long to set up. I also hear people don't fly what you cannot afford to lose leading me to believe people play very carefully. That was the same in Everquest you played carefully there too and could lose everything if you're not careful in it's early days albeit it was a PvE game.
    For the same reason shooters have been popular for 20 years +: casual 10 minute matches with disposable characters. It has always been a whole different PvP genre with 0 attachment to your character.

    Shooters are a whole different type of game that have no business being discussed in the same thread as RPGs and MMORPGs that are all about character development and attachment to that character.
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  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,256
    Ungood said:
    kitarad said:
    No one saw my post or answered my question. :/

    Why are games like Fortnite or PUBG so popular? Full loot PvP works so do you lose a lot in Fortnite or PUBG and can you get back up fast was my question. I've never played them so have no idea so I am curious and my opinion is that games where you tend to lose a lot of time or gear when full loot PvP is in force will not be successful and wish to know if I am right about these two games.

    I am aware that you may lose a fortune in EVE but I also read that type of sting takes very long to set up. I also hear people don't fly what you cannot afford to lose leading me to believe people play very carefully. That was the same in Everquest you played carefully there too and could lose everything if you're not careful in it's early days albeit it was a PvE game.
    As someone that enjoyed Fortnight. The thing it, it's fast come, and fast go. You don't spend hours, months, years, collecting your gear. You got your 10 minute game to rush in and gather as you go, and fight till you win or die.

    That is what makes it fun, the game is about the thrill of the Fight, in the PvP itself is what shines. You are not stuck in some long ass PvE gathering process to collect gear, or make some perfect build, or any of that.

    Fortnight is a PvP game, pure, honest, brutal, and to the point. We go in and fight till the last person is standing, no BS, no Carebears, No one has any misconceptions about what is about to happen when they jump off that Bus, you will fight till you die, everything else in the game is just a means to that swift end.

    It's really beautiful in it's own way.
    So easy to get gear then. No long ass grind and therefore the loss does not sting. This is my exact point the reason open world full loot PvP fails is when you make the gear difficult to get. Once the gear is easy to get people don't really mind losing it.

    That makes games like Everquest where you can lose months of work or days of experience more heartbreaking when you lose.

  • bentrimbentrim Member UncommonPosts: 299
    FINALLY, a dev dept. that realizes, you CANNOT put PVP into an MMORPG and make it work!!!!NEVER HAS....NEVER WILL!!! And for all those MINORITY PVPers Who say..."Iam a PVPer, but I don't gank…...LIARS!!!! LOVE this move, I WILL be jumping into this game.
    MagikarpsGhost[Deleted User]
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,736
    Hariken said:
    Aragoni said:

    My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

    Why is it that PVPer's need to have open-world PVP. PVP is still in the game only you face off against like-minded players. What is this need to gank other players that don't want to PVP?. You get to gank other PVP players to test your own skill, not a non-pvp player that is just an easy kill unless that is what you really want.

    Your making a lot of assumptions.

    Sure, there are poisonous people who get off on ruining other's play time. No argument there. But that's "another thing."

    They are kind of the outliers.

    Open world pvp is more about "anything can happen at any time."

    It's the surprise in the game. It's the danger. And as I've said before, having every player have the same shared experience is important. That's why I'm not necessarily a fan of instances where you can pick your difficulty.

    Also, per the title of this thread, there's no such thing as forced pvp. Period. There's only "such thing" as a person buying a game that has a rule set they don't like. Or want.

    You can't partake in something where the rules, the experience, the events are advertised and then saying they are forced on you.

    It's like going to a water park and complaining you get wet. "It's forced!" I should be able to go on rides and not get wet."




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