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The latest devblog. Forced PvP is gone.

AragoniAragoni Member UncommonPosts: 373

My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

raapnaapReallyNow10RhoklawKyleranXAleX360pantaroCopperfieldbcbullyLeFantomecheebaand 12 others.
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Comments

  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,471
    good news! lol
    RexKushmanReallyNow10maskedweaselVarthanos1Asm0deusLeFantomePalebaneOctagon7711wingoodPutrefeeand 6 others.
    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • raapnaapraapnaap Member UncommonPosts: 455
    Alienated their PvP audience and attempting to attract a new PvE audience in... 6 months time, and similar development time.

    Yeah, no. Refunded.

    What a shame. I actually though that for the first time in a decade, someone was going to make a proper open world PvP MMO. Sure, alpha had issues, it was early days... But of all the excellent feedback they received, they opted to go with the nuclear option.
    RexKushmanReallyNow10XAleX360pantaroLeFantomeKylerancheebaGrintchTybostPutrefeeand 3 others.
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    Aragoni said:

    My hype for this game is gone. I was looking for a new Ultima Online (pre-trammel) or Darkfall Online, but they killed the PvP and turned it into something consensual and instanced.

    Here's the thing about PVP I've observed in every game but DAOC (which oddly had PVP right, although PVP still wasn't my bag).  High-level wolves gank low-level sheep ... mercilessly.  What I've also learned about MMO's is there are generally more "sheep" than "wolves" ... for a time.  The wolves run off all the sheep, then the game becomes niche, then it dies.

    Solution?  Make a PVP server for the "wolves" and let them gank each other.

    I'm a PVE player myself and am very pleased with the direction development is taking in this regard.
    TokkenUngoodKyleranVarthanos1ZegalothAsm0deusbcbullyLeFantomeGrandpaDJMendeland 16 others.
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    raapnaap said:
    Alienated their PvP audience and attempting to attract a new PvE audience in... 6 months time, and similar development time.

    Yeah, no. Refunded.

    What a shame. I actually though that for the first time in a decade, someone was going to make a proper open world PvP MMO. Sure, alpha had issues, it was early days... But of all the excellent feedback they received, they opted to go with the nuclear option.
    Yes, what a shame the PVPers cannot grief the rest of the players -- they'll just have to hunt down a PVP game and grief one another.

    I say this is poetic justice.

    GrintchbentrimdarquewatersJean-Luc_Picard
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,029
    Oh no, I can't gank people!
    LeFantomeGrintchAdoniGundricPutrefeedarquewaters

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,841
    edited January 18
    Forced PvP won't bring in the big bucks. They realised it quickly enough before they launched with it and ran off the players. Look at what happened in the Classic WoW servers. That was a perfect example of how merciless killing with overwhelming odds simply drives players away. It doesn't take a genius to calculate what would happen. Very few people enjoy being on the other end of the losing spectrum and not for very long before they walk away.

    Even if guilds can band together and do well it will only work in games that don't require large investments. You need to make gear easily obtainable for people to accept losing and coming back to fight. That is why MOBAs are successful and command such high populations.

    If they can accept remaining niche then they would have done it but they want to make more money. Consensual is the best way to go, or instances or separate battlegrounds like DAoC or separate servers for PvE and PvP. Big companies aren't going to waste money on making games that will end up niche and empty. They have done their research and know the casualties and damages of such a decision and they are not willing to invest in making a system that properly punishes players that abuse the mechanics and drive players away. There is no possibility nor the luxury of miscalculation and failure when you spend a lot and cannot afford the loss. It's simply too risky.
    UngoodbcbullyVarthanos1wkyfamGrintchAdoniPalebanecheyane

  • DeadSpockDeadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 375
    I missed so many games I had interest in just cause they had forced PVP like: Aion, Archeage, Black Desert Online. Forced PVP is like a BIG Do Not Enter sign for me.
    UngoodVarthanos1bcbullyCryptoAhashGrandpaDJbentrimPalebaneMyrdynnRhiow-DarkstepBuschkatzeand 3 others.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    Did the team learn from the past 20 years or simply forced by their investors...Amazon,citing it as more a business decision than a game design decision?

    Even still,you NEED or must have a solid product in place first,the flags come after.I do not see a solid product ....yet,they still have time to deliver so ,let's see.
    UngoodMendel

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • battlesambattlesam Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Frontiers in DAOC and Cyrodiil in ESO was pvp done correctly, and today those forms of pvp are best if you wish to have pvp and grow your game. Sadly, but truly, pve is WAAAY more popular than pvp, but even hardcore pvpers know that ganking lowbies is not real pvp anyways.

    If New World is expected to become a AAA mmo, then obviously the company has to have safe pve, otherwise it will not make the big bucks. Amazon is unlikely get into this market with a game that can't make big bucks.
    bcbullyPalebane
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,127
    And Today, as I have said many times in the past.

    It's a bad idea to try and make a PvP game attractive to PvE players, or make a PvE game Attractive to PvP players.

    Find your niche, and build the fuck out of your game just for those people, everyone else be damned.

    You won't make the next WoW, but you wever never going to make that anyway, so focus on just making a great game for your niche, and you might become the next Legendary Game.
    Aragonibcbullycheebaeoloe
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,139
    edited January 18
    Whats facinating is it took an alpha test for their devs to come to a conclusion most every MMORPG or survival game player in the last 20 years could have told them right up front, "gankers are gonna gank"

    It's like these devs are babes in the wood with no actual gaming experience at all,  which I find very hard to believe.

    I think like many dev teams before them,  they thought they could include FFA PVP and somehow control the worst of the gankers only to later realize this was almost impossible as most other teams before them also had to admit in the end.

    Let's face it, there's just this bottom dwelling portion of humanity which enjoys preying on the weak and tormenting the helpless.  

    They hate it when others call them out for being the psychopaths they truly are.




    UngoodVarthanos1bcbullycheebaGrintchMendelRhoklawPalebaneSandmanjwkjempffand 1 other.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • Preacher26Preacher26 Member UncommonPosts: 381
    edited January 18
    Kyleran said:
    Whats facinating is it took an alpha test for their devs to come to a conclusion most every MMORPG or survival game player in the last 20 years could have told them right up front, "gankers are gonna gank"

    It's like these devs are babes in the wood with no actual gaming experience at all,  which I find very hard to believe.

    I think like many dev teams before them,  they thought they could include FFA PVP and somehow control the worst of the gankers only to later realize this was almost impossible as most other teams before them also had to admit in the end.

    Let's face it, there's just this bottom dwelling portion of humanity which enjoys preying on the weak and tormenting the helpless.  

    They hate it when others call them out for being the psychopaths they truly are.




    Not everyone who prefers the alpha version of the criminal intent ruleset are people who gank helpless new players. Most of my solo pvp fights were against players in opposing alliances that I came across or people I needed to push out of my farming area. 

    It was a really good pvp game but it’s pve is very shallow. There is no way they have created that much content since the servers went down. I know they did a complete 180 on their vision and are looking for box sales now but trust me, pve focused players will not be satisfied for long
    XAleX360bcbullycheebaMendelPalebaneTybost
  • XAleX360XAleX360 Member UncommonPosts: 502

    Honestly, it sounds like they have completely lost sight of what made this game unique in the first place. This game now is neither a proper PvP sandbox nor a PvE game that raiders can be interested in, since they suggested they'll only have world bosses at launch.

    So instead of doing freeform PvP and organized PvE they are doing exactly the opposites, except not many players are going to be interested in that. I know I won't be.

    Very, very disappointing.

    Preacher26bcbullyraapnaapcheebabentrim

    Executive Editor (Games) http://www.wccftech.com

  • AragoniAragoni Member UncommonPosts: 373
    This comment by the studio head sums up why Im frustrated
    What a damn shame this guy stopped working on the game.
    bcbullyraapnaapXAleX360cheebaGrintchPalebaneNanfoodlePutrefeerossums
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,618
    I like the change. Put a pvp server up for those that want to touch each other without consent. Otherwise, this is probably the best thing they could have done.
    Varthanos1bentrimPalebaneMyrdynnBuschkatze



  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,313
    You either have to make a PVP based game or you have to make a PVE based game.  It's devs that try to appease both groups that end up making very bad games.  At first this was suppose to be a PVP survival game.  Didn't really see the appeal for another one of those game but I am sure there were some who did. 

    Now they are doing a 180 an trying to pull in the PVE crowd, into a game that wasn't based around PVE from the start.  They will end up doing the same thing everyone else has done an end up pissing off both groups most likely.

    Full loot PVP is a very small niche in the gaming market, you either go with that an except you will never see those huge numbers of players an make a great game for those players or you make a half ass game for all players that most will leave in under a year. 

    I am not a fan of full loot PVP games, got my fill of that back in the original full loot game Ultima.  It is a sad fact that many don't want this type of game made at all because it doesn't appeal to them.  Unfortunately the devs thought or think they could be the difference maker an didn't learn from all the past games that have been made.  They are already alienating the players that supported their original idea, in hopes of getting more players.  I didn't have a horse in this race per se, not huge into PVP anymore due to age an hand issues, but would have liked to see the game made for those that wanted it.


    XAleX360raapnaapcheeba
  • ZegalothZegaloth Member UncommonPosts: 222
    I am glad they are moving away from force PvP. I may actually give the game a try now. Nothing hurts a games population more than forced PvP. There is nothing tense, or dangerous about someone higher level, or better equipped than you ganking someone. It is just frustrating.
    Varthanos1maskedweaselPalebaneMyrdynnBuschkatzePeZzykjempff
  • XAleX360XAleX360 Member UncommonPosts: 502
    k61977 said:
    You either have to make a PVP based game or you have to make a PVE based game.  It's devs that try to appease both groups that end up making very bad games.  At first this was suppose to be a PVP survival game.  Didn't really see the appeal for another one of those game but I am sure there were some who did. 

    Now they are doing a 180 an trying to pull in the PVE crowd, into a game that wasn't based around PVE from the start.  They will end up doing the same thing everyone else has done an end up pissing off both groups most likely.

    Full loot PVP is a very small niche in the gaming market, you either go with that an except you will never see those huge numbers of players an make a great game for those players or you make a half ass game for all players that most will leave in under a year. 

    I am not a fan of full loot PVP games, got my fill of that back in the original full loot game Ultima.  It is a sad fact that many don't want this type of game made at all because it doesn't appeal to them.  Unfortunately the devs thought or think they could be the difference maker an didn't learn from all the past games that have been made.  They are already alienating the players that supported their original idea, in hopes of getting more players.  I didn't have a horse in this race per se, not huge into PVP anymore due to age an hand issues, but would have liked to see the game made for those that wanted it.


    Completely agree with you there. This game seems to be stuck in limbo now.

    Executive Editor (Games) http://www.wccftech.com

  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    my latest playerblog: all intrest is gone
    XAleX360bcbullyraapnaap
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    Had no interest i this game due to not liking full loot open world pvp now that this is not so I will be taking a look.


    UngoodPalebaneMyrdynnZegaloth

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,148
    Dead game.

    lets see how long these 20 anti-pvp’r keep
    it alive
    Asm0deusraapnaapkitaradKylerancheebamaskedweaselPalebanerossumsPeZzy
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    One thing I don't get though why can't they go old school and have multiple servers, pve and pvp ones included that you can switch back and forth to at will?

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • raapnaapraapnaap Member UncommonPosts: 455
    edited January 18
    To quickly jump in and respond to the very typical "LUL YOU MAD CUZ YOU NO GET TO GRIEF PEOPLE"...

    PvP players do not want to grief. Sure, a subset of players will want to give people a bad day, same is true for PvE players and subsets of that audience. A minority shouldn't be used to paint an entire demographic, that is a very unfair thing to do.

    Most PvP players want a living, breathing, exciting world of risk versus reward, where conflict - if it happens - is personal, memorable. Most are not actually going to kill everyone on sight, in fact, it didn't happen like this at all during alpha.

    Alpha testers provided a LOT of excellent feedback and ideas about how to make the game more appealing to casual people and to remove the 'gankbox' component. Hell, without going into details and break that NDA (which they are keeping in place in order to hide the game-that-was), I can say they were on the right track towards the end of alpha.

    Then the company director with the vision for New World left, a new one stepped in and shut down alpha... And in the span of 6 months, instead of using the TONS of detailed feedback... AGS used the nuclear option and actually broke what made New World what it was.

    This is the source of the frustration - they baited in an excited PvP audience, happy that a big company was actually making the game no one else has the money to make - and then switched on the last minute, "nope, we doing something completely different now, bye".

    Who can even say they won't flip the other way again after this backlash? They seem to not know what they want to make anymore... Frankly, the reactions around the web over this are largely made of emotion; the feeling Amazon back-stabbed its core audience.
    bcbullycheebaGrintchXAleX360rossums
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,829
    Wouldnt it be better if they came up with some interesting way to regulate pvp instead of just disallowing it?

    I am mostly a pve player, but it just breaks the immersion so much for me when I cannot hit other participants in the online world just because of some artificial force.

    Looking forward to having some kids in the game running around me calling me a **** knowing they are safe because of the lack of retaliation. 


    XAleX360bcbully
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,656
    Where dead trees fall, new sprouts emerge.
    For some this is betrayal and reason to not play&support, for others it is the opening that removes the "members only" sign from the entrance.
    For me, I like it because it is one of those games that has very interesting world concepts, but I would never touch it if it was a pvp game.
    Varthanos1GrintchPalebaneZegaloth
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