Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

the ol' upgrade question............again

2»

Comments

  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    edited January 2020
    i bought it off amazon LOL- and if i decided to return it what model 570? prime? tuff? strix?  im tapped out according to the wife. 
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,375
    cichy1012 said:
    Quizzical said:
    cichy1012 said:
    i bought the noctuna dh15 and have the Fractal Design Define C Tempered Glass ..
    also per the asus website that the board im getting at this date and year should be amd ryzen 3000 ready.. so not sure where flashing bios etc applies.. (at least I hope)
    X470 motherboards typically launched before the Ryzen 3000 series parts existed, so their initial BIOS didn't support the new CPUs.  Once they knew what the 3000 series CPUs would do and how to update the BIOS to support them, motherboard vendors generally released a BIOS update to support it.  The question is whether that particular motherboard will have the newer BIOS when you get it.  That depends on when it was physically assembled.

    In some cases, the motherboard manufacturer can make a slightly different SKU whose only significant difference is that the newer SKU is guaranteed to have the newer BIOS.  Without that, if a stock person just grabs a motherboard off the shelf, it might come with a newer BIOS that already supports the 3000 series CPUs, or it might not.  At some point in time, the stock was likely mixed so that some motherboards had the newer BIOS and some didn't.

    If it doesn't, then you'll have to update the BIOS yourself.  In some cases, this would require putting a CPU into the motherboard that is supported by the old BIOS in order to do the BIOS update.  You don't have such a CPU, so that would be a big problem.

    If you look through the details of the particular motherboard you're looking at, it might give you a way to update the BIOS without a CPU, or it might guarantee you that the particular SKU already has a newer BIOS.  Or it might do neither of those, which could potentially be a big problem.

    One argument for getting an X570 motherboard rather than X470 is that you're guaranteed that it will support the newer CPUs right out of the box.  There never was a BIOS for an X570 motherboard that didn't support the Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, or at least not the ones available at the initial launch.  That's the biggest reason why I'd recommend getting an X570 motherboard unless you have some good reason not to.


    what 570 model? and is it more expensive?
    and if it get the 470 with updated bios (just stick with it?)
    https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-x570-e-gaming/p/N82E16813119111

    Not the only x570 model by any means but the direct upgrade to the one you chose.

    x570 will tend to be more expensive than x470 but it also has better features - PCI4 foremost among them
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Ridelynn said:
    cichy1012 said:
    Quizzical said:
    cichy1012 said:
    i bought the noctuna dh15 and have the Fractal Design Define C Tempered Glass ..
    also per the asus website that the board im getting at this date and year should be amd ryzen 3000 ready.. so not sure where flashing bios etc applies.. (at least I hope)
    X470 motherboards typically launched before the Ryzen 3000 series parts existed, so their initial BIOS didn't support the new CPUs.  Once they knew what the 3000 series CPUs would do and how to update the BIOS to support them, motherboard vendors generally released a BIOS update to support it.  The question is whether that particular motherboard will have the newer BIOS when you get it.  That depends on when it was physically assembled.

    In some cases, the motherboard manufacturer can make a slightly different SKU whose only significant difference is that the newer SKU is guaranteed to have the newer BIOS.  Without that, if a stock person just grabs a motherboard off the shelf, it might come with a newer BIOS that already supports the 3000 series CPUs, or it might not.  At some point in time, the stock was likely mixed so that some motherboards had the newer BIOS and some didn't.

    If it doesn't, then you'll have to update the BIOS yourself.  In some cases, this would require putting a CPU into the motherboard that is supported by the old BIOS in order to do the BIOS update.  You don't have such a CPU, so that would be a big problem.

    If you look through the details of the particular motherboard you're looking at, it might give you a way to update the BIOS without a CPU, or it might guarantee you that the particular SKU already has a newer BIOS.  Or it might do neither of those, which could potentially be a big problem.

    One argument for getting an X570 motherboard rather than X470 is that you're guaranteed that it will support the newer CPUs right out of the box.  There never was a BIOS for an X570 motherboard that didn't support the Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, or at least not the ones available at the initial launch.  That's the biggest reason why I'd recommend getting an X570 motherboard unless you have some good reason not to.


    what 570 model? and is it more expensive?
    and if it get the 470 with updated bios (just stick with it?)
    https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-x570-e-gaming/p/N82E16813119111

    Not the only x570 model by any means but the direct upgrade to the one you chose.

    x570 will tend to be more expensive than x470 but it also has better features - PCI4 foremost among them
    What about the asus 570f
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,375
    edited January 2020
    cichy1012 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-x570-e-gaming/p/N82E16813119111

    Not the only x570 model by any means but the direct upgrade to the one you chose.

    x570 will tend to be more expensive than x470 but it also has better features - PCI4 foremost among them
    What about the asus 570f
    Just a matter of what features you need and what you want your budget to be - that's going to be the biggest difference between all of the x570 motherboards across all manufacturers

    I'd also refer you to here:
    https://hardforum.com/threads/are-more-expensive-motherboards-better-motherboards-h.1956500/

    It's a shame the original article is pulled down, but you can still glean a lot from the comments. In general, it boils down to the fact that high end motherboards do have more features (WiFi, ports, slots, etc), but they generally don't have better day-to-day performance. Pay for the features you need, but don't overpay for things you'll never use just to get a more premium board, as it won't amount to better performance.
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Y'all got me all messed up now. Even if my 470f comes with the updated  bios I get the feel that if I dont get the 570 I'm making a mistake??? Is there a huge difference? Performance wise? 
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,027
    edited January 2020
    cichy1012 said:
    Y'all got me all messed up now. Even if my 470f comes with the updated  bios I get the feel that if I dont get the 570 I'm making a mistake??? Is there a huge difference? Performance wise? 

    No there isn't.

    Maybe down the line in 5 or so years then having pcie 4.0 instead of 3.0 will give a big enough performance boost to matter but in everyday use gaming included pcie/4,0 isn't needed.

    Even in gaming a rtx2080ti just barely saturates pcie 3.0 x8 but only by 2 or 3% so is far from saturating your pcie 3.0 x16 slot which is where you put your gpu.

    Unless you have some special thing you do that REQUIRES pcie 4.0 you wont be seeing any real world noticable performance gain and will be paying for maybe some future proofing but then in 3 to 5 years I wager you will be able to get even better "5xx" mobo at a cheaper price than they are now.

    For example just this past black friday I built my wife a new work/gaming PC.

    Used a
    b450 tomahawk max (msi boards in the b450 line have really good vrms)
    ryzen 3600x
    16gb of 3200 ram
    windows 7

    Reused the other parts needed from the PC she was using as they were pretty newish and working just fine.

    Very happy with it for both gaming and her work which she does on the PC daily.  We were on a budget and using a 570 board would have been chucking $$ down the drain for nothing but bragging rights.

    RidelynnOzmodan

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Asm0deus said:
    cichy1012 said:
    Y'all got me all messed up now. Even if my 470f comes with the updated  bios I get the feel that if I dont get the 570 I'm making a mistake??? Is there a huge difference? Performance wise? 

    No there isn't.

    Maybe down the line in 5 or so years then having pcie 4.0 instead of 3.0 will give a big enough performance boost to matter but in everyday use gaming included pcie/4,0 isn't needed.

    Even in gaming a rtx2080ti just barely saturates pcie 3.0 x8 but only by 2 or 3% so is far from saturating your pcie 3.0 x16 slot which is where you put your gpu.

    Unless you have some special thing you do that REQUIRES pcie 4.0 you wont be seeing any real world noticable performance gain and will be paying for maybe some future proofing but then in 3 to 5 years I wager you will be able to get even better "5xx" mobo at a cheaper price than they are now.

    For example just this past black friday I built my wife a new work/gaming PC.

    Used a
    b450 tomahawk max (msi boards in the b450 line have really good vrms)
    ryzen 3600x
    16gb of 3200 ram
    windows 7

    Reused the other parts needed from the PC she was using as they were pretty newish and working just fine.

    Very happy with it for both gaming and her work which she does on the PC daily.  We were on a budget and using a 570 board would have been chucking $$ down the drain for nothing but bragging rights.

    Thank you..
  • bentrimbentrim Member UncommonPosts: 299
    edited January 2020
    Someone said 16 to 32mg you wont see the difference. NOT CORRECT...go at least to 32, 64 if you can and get some faster ram...check your MB specs and see compatibilities, but speed and freq. and 32-64 will make a HUGE difference
    Asm0deusRidelynnOzmodan
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    edited January 2020
    bentrim said:
    Someone said 16 to 32mg you wont see the difference. NOT CORRECT...go at least to 32, 64 if you can and get some faster ram...check your MB specs and see compatibilities, but speed and freq. and 32-64 will make a HUGE difference
    For most consumer uses, you won't see a difference between 16 GB and 32 GB of memory.  There are some purposes where you will, and if you happen to want one of those things, then you need more than 16 GB.  But you can readily make a case for 32 GB just because it isn't that expensive.

    The case for going to 64 GB, on the other hand, is much weaker.  There are far fewer consumer uses where 32 GB isn't enough than there are where 16 GB isn't enough.  Furthermore, that increases the price tag by quite a bit.  If you need it, then you need it, but not many people need more than 32 GB in a gaming desktop just yet.
    Asm0deus
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    bentrim said:
    Someone said 16 to 32mg you wont see the difference. NOT CORRECT...go at least to 32, 64 if you can and get some faster ram...check your MB specs and see compatibilities, but speed and freq. and 32-64 will make a HUGE difference
    Seriously?  I run a bunch of applications when gaming and have never used 16gb.  About the most I have used is about 12-14 running multiple clients and some video editing apps.  Unless you have a rare program that needs lots of memory, there really is no need to go beyond 16gb at this point in time.

    Ridelynn
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,375
    Ozmodan said:
    bentrim said:
    Someone said 16 to 32mg you wont see the difference. NOT CORRECT...go at least to 32, 64 if you can and get some faster ram...check your MB specs and see compatibilities, but speed and freq. and 32-64 will make a HUGE difference
    Seriously?  I run a bunch of applications when gaming and have never used 16gb.  About the most I have used is about 12-14 running multiple clients and some video editing apps.  Unless you have a rare program that needs lots of memory, there really is no need to go beyond 16gb at this point in time.

    When I built my gaming rig back in ... 2014 or so ... RAM was pretty cheap. At the time I was back into Everquest (the original). It ran like dogcrap on my old rig, which wasn't horrible by any means, but the game always struggled in crowded areas trying to load textures and what not. So I got the bright idea to try it in a RAM Drive.

    I threw in 32G of RAM in the machine. Put EQ over onto a RAM Drive... loaded up the game prepared to be amazed and .. it didn't fix a darn thing. Crappy Code will always result in Crappy perfomance, I learned by paying to learn, and I'm sure a good deal of that code is from 1998.

    Anyway, after I nixed the RAM Drive idea, I kept an eye on RAM use for a while. VMs can use the RAM very quickly. A few modern games can use a bit of RAM, but no where close to 32G. I don't do any content creation, but i've heard some intensive graphics and video development tools can chew some RAM up.

    Somewhere around 2017, I had a DIMM go bad. I was only running 16G after that until I had the RMA complete (around 3-4 months, mostly because I was just lazy in sending it off). I couldn't even tell the difference.

    Even today, the most I've ever seen my system RAM loaded to is around 40%, that's with a few modern games, running in 4K. If I were running VMs or some of the other aforementioned items that eat RAM, maybe it would be different... but my use case isn't.

    I don't regret having 32G of RAM, it was cheap when I bought it. Unfortunately, it's only DDR3 so I can't use it going forward. But if the price of going from 16->32 made me drop down a tier in either CPU or GPU, I wouldn't do it again.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    edited January 2020
    Kerbal Space Program has some pretty serious memory leaks, so 32 GB will let you go a lot longer without relaunching the game than 16 GB will.  I'm not saying that's common, but I am saying that gaming reasons to get 32 GB do exist.
    Ozmodan
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Quizzical said:
    Kerbal Space Program has some pretty serious memory leaks, so 32 GB will let you go a lot longer without relaunching the game than 16 GB will.  I'm not saying that's common, but I am saying that gaming reasons to get 32 GB do exist.





    looks like i need to order another 16gb then LOL (i forgot to mention i do a lot of photo editing as a photographer) and i have 2 monitors
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,027
    edited January 2020
    cichy1012 said:
    Quizzical said:
    Kerbal Space Program has some pretty serious memory leaks, so 32 GB will let you go a lot longer without relaunching the game than 16 GB will.  I'm not saying that's common, but I am saying that gaming reasons to get 32 GB do exist.





    looks like i need to order another 16gb then LOL (i forgot to mention i do a lot of photo editing as a photographer) and i have 2 monitors

    Just be sure to check if your chosen mobo is daisy chain or T topology.  If it's T topology then having ram in a 4x8gb configuration shouldn't be much of an issue but if it is daisy chain topology your ram may have some issues with 4x8gb rather than 2x16gb and may not hit the rated XMP as this is an issue with many ryzen boards.

    Basically T topology if you wanna run 4 sticks and daisy chain for 2 sticks.

    That said this doesn't mean your PC will suck even if you run 4 sticks of ram in a daisy chain topo mobo only be aware your ram may not run at as high a frequency as it most likely would  with 2 sticks of ram.

    Just something to be aware of if you get ram that's rated to run at 3600 and you find the xmp profile with four sticks wont do better than say 3200 or so as it may not be the rams fault.



    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,403
    Ryzen memory issues only affected the first batch of the first generation CPUs. Subsequent parts didn't have the same memory issues as the first batch, but AMD kept the rated speeds down just in case.
    Ozmodan
Sign In or Register to comment.