Help me understand....

delete5230

Ever since the announcement of instancing...... I can't help but think Guildwars 1

Guildwars 1 where the player forms a group and ventures from a city and is instanced.
-hub ?
-lobby ?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I truly don't understand the identity of this game anymore.

It's like a major void or a dark spot developers are not filling.... A MAJOR ONE. 

I spent years thinking Everquest 1 done better....... I know better now that it's not..... BUT what is it ?

With all pre-study of every mmorpgs they all had a clear cut identity that each of us understood,

Well before the release of Vanguard, Warhammer, Elders Scrolls Online, Final fantasy 14, Star Wars the old republic, we had a full understanding, spoilers or not we understood……. What's wrong here ? 

Even the extreme unique ones like Wildstar we knew basic dynamics before hand. 

Pantheon's world is a mystery and by far not in a good way…. We still haven't a clue what this game is about….. Tons of news letters, yet nothing ! 

BeansnBread

Is it going to be like Guild Wars instancing or is instancing used to help control the load on servers and people's hardware?

Edit: Also, watching your weird descent from adulation to depression about this game is disturbing.

delete5230

BeansnBread said:

Is it going to be like Guild Wars instancing or is instancing used to help control the load on servers and people's hardware?

Edit: Also, watching your weird descent from adulation to depression about this game is disturbing.

About your edit, 
This game started out with EVERYONES assumption it was an Everquest 1 remake, tell me this isn't true about 3 years back ? .... Not only is this not the case, their remaking 3D graphics that no one expected.  This is where peoples money is going for research and development of something that was done already..... Did you expect to pay for this ? 


After what 5 years, the game still has NO IDENTITY, none.... Is it even started yet, because no one KNOWS ANYTHING.... The news letter are a big time waster and a poor attempt to keep people at bay as nothing is getting done.  Depression ?... I don't get depressed... But I see a huge procrastination.  I'ts slowly turning into bullshit..... so, please explain the identity of the game ?  

Xarko

BeansnBread said:

Edit: Also, watching your weird descent from adulation to depression about this game is disturbing.

It's goes up and down regularly, don't worry about it.

delete5230

Xarko said:

BeansnBread said:

Edit: Also, watching your weird descent from adulation to depression about this game is disturbing.

It's goes up and down regularly, don't worry about it.

 So trying to blow this off like its not happening.

About your edit, 
This game started out with EVERYONES assumption it was an Everquest 1 remake, tell me this isn't true about 3 years back ? .... Not only is this not the case, their remaking 3D graphics that no one expected.  This is where peoples money is going for research and development of something that was done already..... Did you expect to pay for this ? 


After what 5 years, the game still has NO IDENTITY, none.... Is it even started yet, because no one KNOWS ANYTHING.... The news letter are a big time waster and a poor attempt to keep people at bay as nothing is getting done.  Depression ?... I don't get depressed... But I see a huge procrastination.  I'ts slowly turning into bullshit..... so, please explain the identity of the game ? 


Good, Now I'll edit:
Judging by the lol at the bottom... I can assume you acknowledge, the game is NOTHING LIKE IT SET OUT TO BE !

 

Neanderthal

delete5230 said:

Ever since the announcement of instancing...... 

When did they announce instancing?  How much instancing?  I'm guessing if this is true it's for the endgame raids.  

Albatroes

delete5230 said:

Ever since the announcement of instancing...... I can't help but think Guildwars 1

Guildwars 1 where the player forms a group and ventures from a city and is instanced.
-hub ?
-lobby ?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I truly don't understand the identity of this game anymore.

It's like a major void or a dark spot developers are not filling.... A MAJOR ONE. 

I spent years thinking Everquest 1 done better....... I know better now that it's not..... BUT what is it ?

With all pre-study of every mmorpgs they all had a clear cut identity that each of us understood,

Well before the release of Vanguard, Warhammer, Elders Scrolls Online, Final fantasy 14, Star Wars the old republic, we had a full understanding, spoilers or not we understood……. What's wrong here ? 

Even the extreme unique ones like Wildstar we knew basic dynamics before hand. 

Pantheon's world is a mystery and by far not in a good way…. We still haven't a clue what this game is about….. Tons of news letters, yet nothing ! 

The last blog post I can find is from October....

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/blogs/151/187/very-fast-even-for-me-commentary-on-instancing

All Brad really talked about is how he would like to implement "just enough" instancing, like quest related "phasing" in a sense. What he was trying to say was that if you had a quest, then only you and others you are with would see the quest related stuff, while other people in the world would see normal things. No where did he ever elude to making an entire map or whatever instanced.

So unless you found something more recent than that.....

Xthos

Seems like more major over reacting.  I loved the line of "Did you expect to pay for this"?  Donate or don't, but please, realize what you did, when you did it.  I am not a huge instancing fan, but I will wait and see, not just start concocting what I think it must mean.

I would of played with older graphics, as even UO 2d graphics do not put me off, but most people like their game being pretty, so if they spent money on a graphic revamp, while other people kept working on what they were doing, sounds like probably a good idea.  I doubt every person stopped what they were doing.  Will it delay it?  Most likely, how long?  No one will likely ever know.

Kyleran

If the OP would revisit the Pantheon web site there are numerous pages describing what their vision is.  There is absolutely no mention of remaking Everquest 1, might be what many gamers have imagined it would be, but Brad and team have always been very clear this was never their intent.  

This excerpt is just a small sample of what they intend, I encourage anyone confused to read all of the materials the web site has on the subject.

As others have mentioned, Brad never suggested he was taking a full on instancing approach, but some sort of phasing might happen, but as of October, had yet to be designed.

• 1.0.1 It sounds like Pantheon is bringing back a lot of ‘older’ MMO game mechanics. Is Pantheon a clone of older games or a modern MMO?

  Pantheon is most definitely a modern MMO with modern graphics and new and exciting features and mechanics. There are already emulators out there that are clones of earlier MMOs and Visionary Realms has no desire to make another emulator. That said, we also feel that many of the features and mechanics of previous MMOs have been abandoned in more recent games, resulting in a less challenging, compelling, deep, and social experience. Pantheon, therefore, will indeed bring back some of these conventional mechanics and ideas but with a fresh perspective, some tweaks and revisions. We also understand that while gamers’ tastes don’t fundamentally change over time, their situations, lives, and responsibilities do. Likewise, some game mechanics often associated with earlier MMOs involved inordinate amounts of downtime, overly severe penalties, too much competition over content and resources, and even downright boring or overly repetitive gameplay. Our intention, therefore, is not to bring back ‘everything’ from the old days, but rather to pick and choose those which make sense and are needed to make a fun, social, cooperative, and challenging game.

  https://pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
  

  
  

  
  

Amathe

Kyleran said:

If the OP would revisit the Pantheon web site there are numerous pages describing what their vision is.  

• 
  

Just a few follow up observations.

OP isn't going to read the FAQ. He has mocked people like me who do in the past. So that's a dead end so far as his posts go.

You are right, Brad never meant simply to re-make EQ. But there has long been talk around the internet of a spiritual successor to EQ. [Just google EQ spiritual successor]. I think the passage you quote alludes to making a new game that is it's own thing, and also as you point out makes clear the game will use some old school mechanics, but not all. 

I recall Brad making some posts or blog entries and another VR guy posting to emphasize that just because Brad says it doesn't make it gospel. I don't know where that announcement was but it was on VR's website somewhere. So the phasing thing may not happen.

bng28

Amathe said:

Kyleran said:

If the OP would revisit the Pantheon web site there are numerous pages describing what their vision is.  

• 
  

Just a few follow up observations.

OP isn't going to read the FAQ. He has mocked people like me who do in the past. So that's a dead end so far as his posts go.

You are right, Brad never meant simply to re-make EQ. But there has long been talk around the internet of a spiritual successor to EQ. [Just google EQ spiritual successor]. I think the passage you quote alludes to making a new game that is it's own thing, and also as you point out makes clear the game will use some old school mechanics, but not all. 

I recall Brad making some posts or blog entries and another VR guy posting to emphasize that just because Brad says it doesn't make it gospel. I don't know where that announcement was but it was on VR's website somewhere. So the phasing thing may not happen.

I was always under the impression Chris Perkins was calling most of the shots.  Brad was a big creative mind for them, but as you said his word "doesnt make it gospel" i believe is fairly accurate.

TEKK3N

bng28 said:

Amathe said:

Kyleran said:

If the OP would revisit the Pantheon web site there are numerous pages describing what their vision is.  

• 
  

Just a few follow up observations.

OP isn't going to read the FAQ. He has mocked people like me who do in the past. So that's a dead end so far as his posts go.

You are right, Brad never meant simply to re-make EQ. But there has long been talk around the internet of a spiritual successor to EQ. [Just google EQ spiritual successor]. I think the passage you quote alludes to making a new game that is it's own thing, and also as you point out makes clear the game will use some old school mechanics, but not all. 

I recall Brad making some posts or blog entries and another VR guy posting to emphasize that just because Brad says it doesn't make it gospel. I don't know where that announcement was but it was on VR's website somewhere. So the phasing thing may not happen.

I was always under the impression Chris Perkins was calling most of the shots.  Brad was a big creative mind for them, but as you said his word "doesnt make it gospel" i believe is fairly accurate.

You are correct.

Tiller

Yep, I was right, it was another Delete thread xD

delete5230

Kyleran said:

If the OP would revisit the Pantheon web site there are numerous pages describing what their vision is.  There is absolutely no mention of remaking Everquest 1, might be what many gamers have imagined it would be, but Brad and team have always been very clear this was never their intent.  

This excerpt is just a small sample of what they intend, I encourage anyone confused to read all of the materials the web site has on the subject.

As others have mentioned, Brad never suggested he was taking a full on instancing approach, but some sort of phasing might happen, but as of October, had yet to be designed.

• 1.0.1 It sounds like Pantheon is bringing back a lot of ‘older’ MMO game mechanics. Is Pantheon a clone of older games or a modern MMO?

  Pantheon is most definitely a modern MMO with modern graphics and new and exciting features and mechanics. There are already emulators out there that are clones of earlier MMOs and Visionary Realms has no desire to make another emulator. That said, we also feel that many of the features and mechanics of previous MMOs have been abandoned in more recent games, resulting in a less challenging, compelling, deep, and social experience. Pantheon, therefore, will indeed bring back some of these conventional mechanics and ideas but with a fresh perspective, some tweaks and revisions. We also understand that while gamers’ tastes don’t fundamentally change over time, their situations, lives, and responsibilities do. Likewise, some game mechanics often associated with earlier MMOs involved inordinate amounts of downtime, overly severe penalties, too much competition over content and resources, and even downright boring or overly repetitive gameplay. Our intention, therefore, is not to bring back ‘everything’ from the old days, but rather to pick and choose those which make sense and are needed to make a fun, social, cooperative, and challenging game.

  https://pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
  

  
  

  
  

Take a look at what you posted here.  With all of this.... I can safely say/we have no idea what this game is like..... It still has no identity at all.

The long example from the FAQ tells us nothing but a basic mindset..... Nothing about the game.


Fluff.

Kyleran

delete5230 said:

Kyleran said:

• https://pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/

  
  

Take a look at what you posted here.  With all of this.... I can safely say/we have no idea what this game is like..... It still has no identity at all.

The long example from the FAQ tells us nothing but a basic mindset..... Nothing about the game.


Fluff.

I'm not quite sure then what you are looking for, except of course access to the actual game which isn't currently available.

Perhaps some U2 will help.

delete5230

Kyleran said:

delete5230 said:

Kyleran said:

• https://pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/

  
  

Take a look at what you posted here.  With all of this.... I can safely say/we have no idea what this game is like..... It still has no identity at all.

The long example from the FAQ tells us nothing but a basic mindset..... Nothing about the game.


Fluff.

I'm not quite sure then what you are looking for, except of course access to the actual game which isn't currently available.

Perhaps some U2 will help.



I guess U2 is good when their is nothing else

Amathe

@delete5230, you're right. There's no information. Any information is just meaningless words or images. No progress has been made. No progress ever will be made. If progress somehow is ever made, it will be shit. 

You win! Only you saw the truth. Your work in alerting us to this is done? So you can leave now? 

Or will the plate in your head shift again and you can return to claiming Pantheon is the only true mmorpg?

delete5230

Amathe said:

@delete5230, you're right. There's no information. Any information is just meaningless words or images. No progress has been made. No progress ever will be made. If progress somehow is ever made, it will be shit. 

You win! Only you saw the truth. Your work in alerting us to this is done? So you can leave now? 

Or will the plate in your head shift again and you can return to claiming Pantheon is the only true mmorpg?

@Amathe
You were doing good with the first two paragraphs, then you crapped out with the last

The game has no structure that we know of.

Anyway please answer this:

How do you craft, and what does it look like ?
How do you gather materials ?
Prof of anything solo ?
How time sensitive is grouping (real time, not words) ?
What about shop keepers ?
NPC dialogue ?
How do guild work ?
What do cities look like ?
How do people come together ?
How do people travel to get to groups ?
How do you find groups ?
How do people invent content for questing ?
Dying, don't talk about it show us !
5 years development and maybe some phasing ?

500 more questions "


People often ask:  "will their be solo content" 

Answer: "Their will be solo"

Amathe

People also ask "are we there yet?" But those are little people. Children, really.

WarEnsemble

Why do you people keep feeding the troll? If everyone stopped responding to delete, he would get bored eventually.

alyndale

@Amathe
 I'm not going to ridicule you sir. In fact your listicle is of the same I would like to ask. While I see some info on crafting, it is somewhat vague. As far as "farming" for mats well I do recall they sort of describe that materials found in the world were going to be somewhat rare. Nonetheless, I would assume, as it is now, you would need to have an agreement when whomever the group leader is to slow the pace down a bit so one might harvest materials as they are discovered.

All in all, Amathe I am going to guess that Pantheon is far, far from being even in a suitable Alpha 1 state. My guess- 2 years from any possible closed beta. I agree, the devs have a way to go in order to fully answer those "500" questions you and many others have, sir. Be patient and let us see what actually happens as this mmo evolves. 

  Keep on truckin'

Amathe

alyndale said:

@Amathe

 I'm not going to ridicule you sir. In fact your listicle is of the same I would like to ask. While I see some info on crafting, it is somewhat vague. As far as "farming" for mats well I do recall they sort of describe that materials found in the world were going to be somewhat rare. Nonetheless, I would assume, as it is now, you would need to have an agreement when whomever the group leader is to slow the pace down a bit so one might harvest materials as they are discovered.

All in all, Amathe I am going to guess that Pantheon is far, far from being even in a suitable Alpha 1 state. My guess- 2 years from any possible closed beta. I agree, the devs have a way to go in order to fully answer those "500" questions you and many others have, sir. Be patient and let us see what actually happens as this mmo evolves. 

  Keep on truckin'

I think you are confusing me with @delete5230, which kind of hurts my feelings a bit. 

I don't have 500 questions, nor any list.

And I understand we have to wait (most of the time I do anyway).

Kyleran

The topic of crafting progress (or lack thereof) recently came up during a thread on the Pantheon forums over the recent departure of their crafting lead developer.

He left after being with the team for over 4.5 years, saying while he enjoyed his job working from home for so long had gotten far too isolating. 

What was discussed is despite all the time spent on crafting, no one has actually witnessed any actual crafting mechanics.

People also wondered who would continue work in this area and a moderator using the royal "We" tense said basically we will be assigning the work to other devs, standard industry practice and all that.

As is so typical on that forum (I wouldn't last a week posting there) said same moderator closed the thread after people kept discussing the departure / concerns after the "official" (?) response had been given.

VicusEQ

What any of the dungeon streams...the game looks and feels like a modern EQ/Vanguard.  

How do you craft, and what does it look like ?
  Who cares?  crafting will be in the game and the Pantheon team doesnt seem the type to just make it a simple click and your done.  
How do you gather materials ? Same as above, you will be able to gather.
Prof of anything solo ? The game is based around team combat, whatever solo there is it will be limited I am sure and wont provide the best gear...actually read their website you will answer a lot of these basic questions
How time sensitive is grouping (real time, not words) ? Why is this gamebreaking for you?  I am going to guess (from watching the videos) that getting to a camp spot will take 15 minutes, then you farm that spot as long as you like then leave.
What about shop keepers ? There will be some type of auction system, they aren't dumb
NPC dialogue ? They already have alert systems in the game so NPC dialogue will either be reading, voice, we will wait and see.
How do guild work ? Hopefully not like guild wars 2...all I care about
What do cities look like ? Watch a youtube video
How do people come together ? Watch a youtube video
How do people travel to get to groups ? Walk, ports, who cares?  This is basic stuff man
How do you find groups ? Shouting or a LFG tool...but not a instant joining tool like WoW.  
How do people invent content for questing ?  This is a legit question.  I assume they will release it when they are ready to show the system in place.
Dying, don't talk about it show us ! They have...its in the videos.  You die and get rezed.  It will be similiar to EQ with corpse runs (current EQ)
5 years development and maybe some phasing ? Yep, there is some phasing.  They are doing videos every two weeks releasing information.  Enjoy the journey and stop wanting everything now.  When they say the game is released and you pay money, then you can demand answers, everything right now is optional for you to support so...DONT if you have this many concerns.  
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/485867/help-me-understand#6bEYpUOede7v9yB4.99

delete5230

VicusEQ said:

What any of the dungeon streams...the game looks and feels like a modern EQ/Vanguard.  

How do you craft, and what does it look like ?
  Who cares?  crafting will be in the game and the Pantheon team doesnt seem the type to just make it a simple click and your done.  
How do you gather materials ? Same as above, you will be able to gather.
Prof of anything solo ? The game is based around team combat, whatever solo there is it will be limited I am sure and wont provide the best gear...actually read their website you will answer a lot of these basic questions
How time sensitive is grouping (real time, not words) ? Why is this gamebreaking for you?  I am going to guess (from watching the videos) that getting to a camp spot will take 15 minutes, then you farm that spot as long as you like then leave.
What about shop keepers ? There will be some type of auction system, they aren't dumb
NPC dialogue ? They already have alert systems in the game so NPC dialogue will either be reading, voice, we will wait and see.
How do guild work ? Hopefully not like guild wars 2...all I care about
What do cities look like ? Watch a youtube video
How do people come together ? Watch a youtube video
How do people travel to get to groups ? Walk, ports, who cares?  This is basic stuff man
How do you find groups ? Shouting or a LFG tool...but not a instant joining tool like WoW.  
How do people invent content for questing ?  This is a legit question.  I assume they will release it when they are ready to show the system in place.
Dying, don't talk about it show us ! They have...its in the videos.  You die and get rezed.  It will be similiar to EQ with corpse runs (current EQ)
5 years development and maybe some phasing ? Yep, there is some phasing.  They are doing videos every two weeks releasing information.  Enjoy the journey and stop wanting everything now.  When they say the game is released and you pay money, then you can demand answers, everything right now is optional for you to support so...DONT if you have this many concerns.  
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/485867/help-me-understand#6bEYpUOede7v9yB4.99

Can't believe you gave this an awesome, 
This entire thing is a mix between fabrication, what all mmorpgs do in general, and a few written words from a newsletter full of future promises.

It actually hurts the rebuttal  

Dullahan

Your comments are starting to come off a little disingenuous. If you have a question about a specific system, ask about it. If you narrow your query or stick to a theme, you are more likely to get the answers to your questions.

The truth is, many things are still up in the air. What currently exists may be a generic placeholder for something to come. A system like crafting, while important, is going to take a backseat to the adventuring or combat systems. That is why you are seeing more information about classes, abilities, world design, quest or perception systems.

Everyone wants this game complete and playable, or at least concrete answers, but that is going to take a while. There is a huge Pantheon FAQ, update newsletters every single month as well as videos and streams of their progress. Lets not act like there is radio silence.