Yes old school MMOs are dead for good reasons, who want to camp a boss camp for hours, or farm some mob for weeks for just one drop you need, yes it was cool in the old days when MMO was new and you didn't know any better.
There is so many games out there you can try and play yes enjoy, It's hardly dead, so the thing is It's the old geezers mentality that is dead not the genre.
Old school MMORPGs aren't dead. Several of the oldest remain to this day. Several games with old school sensibilities have been recently released and more are in the works.
They are potentially on the verge of a renaissance.
There are indeed many MMORPGs one can try and play today. How many of those will be around five years from now... ten years... twenty...
How many modern titles have the depth to hold interest that long, to match the longevity of their most storied predecessors.
I suspect few to none.
But, at least there are plenty of contemporary options for players to know better in.
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
I can't "roleplay" in an action combat based MMO. No matter what skills my avatar has, it's based on my own mouse/keyboard skills
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
I can't "roleplay" in an action combat based MMO. No matter what skills my avatar has, it's based on my own mouse/keyboard skills
Of course you can. Role-play is not confined to one's game performance or the numerical values associated to a character, or by necessity linked to them at all. It is a product of one's imagination and the ability to suspend disbelief. It is the taking on of the persona and outlook of another for a time to vicariously experience from other perspectives. It is the pretending of being someone else simply for the fun of it. None of that is dependent on mouse/keyboard abilities.
You can't role-play game skill, but nothing prevents a person from role-playing in a game dependent on player skill. For example, if I was so inclined yet lacked the action skills to perform as well as would be expected by my character I could attribute my shortcoming to a lasting effect from previous injury that makes me less than I was, yet I am determined to go on regardless.
Yes old school MMOs are dead for good reasons, who want to camp a boss camp for hours, or farm some mob for weeks for just one drop you need, yes it was cool in the old days when MMO was new and you didn't know any better.
There is so many games out there you can try and play yes enjoy, It's hardly dead, so the thing is It's the old geezers mentality that is dead not the genre.
Hmmm I was sure there was going to be an "OK Boomer" in here somewhere.......
If new school is so good, why are they playing truant from their new school MMO and coming on here to tell us about it? Back in the day we lived and breathed our MMORPG's, today they are a short stop over between Twitter and coming on here, then it's on to watching some games on You Tube.
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
I can't "roleplay" in an action combat based MMO. No matter what skills my avatar has, it's based on my own mouse/keyboard skills
Of course you can. Role-play is not confined to one's game performance or the numerical values associated to a character, or by necessity linked to them at all. It is a product of one's imagination and the ability to suspend disbelief. It is the taking on of the persona and outlook of another for a time to vicariously experience from other perspectives. It is the pretending of being someone else simply for the fun of it. None of that is dependent on mouse/keyboard abilities.
You can't role-play game skill, but nothing prevents a person from role-playing in a game dependent on player skill. For example, if I was so inclined yet lacked the action skills to perform as well as would be expected by my character I could attribute my shortcoming to a lasting effect from previous injury that makes me less than I was, yet I am determined to go on regardless.
Easily done.
You can RP in any single-player game then as well. That is not the point of an online multiplayer game. Yes many play them solo, but are they RP lone-wolf hermits? If you try to actually role-play with other people in these games you will most likely be laughed at or ignored.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
I can't "roleplay" in an action combat based MMO. No matter what skills my avatar has, it's based on my own mouse/keyboard skills
Of course you can. Role-play is not confined to one's game performance or the numerical values associated to a character, or by necessity linked to them at all. It is a product of one's imagination and the ability to suspend disbelief. It is the taking on of the persona and outlook of another for a time to vicariously experience from other perspectives. It is the pretending of being someone else simply for the fun of it. None of that is dependent on mouse/keyboard abilities.
You can't role-play game skill, but nothing prevents a person from role-playing in a game dependent on player skill. For example, if I was so inclined yet lacked the action skills to perform as well as would be expected by my character I could attribute my shortcoming to a lasting effect from previous injury that makes me less than I was, yet I am determined to go on regardless.
Easily done.
Well, you are right, but that's at such a low level that it isn't much depth of RP at all. And you need more than just player statements for depth. You need actions and props. Otherwise, it pretty much falls on deaf ears, so to speak. Your example is about as good as it gets, without such support from the game.
That's you RPing, but the game isn't what anyone would call a RPing game. So, yes, you are right, but it's effect with other players has no support from the game whatsoever. No feedback.
As an example of game support: In UO players could make tables and chairs, and set them up as one long table with chairs all around. They could make plates, silverware, and goblets. They could set these around in front of each chair. Then they could cook ribs and bowls of peas and set one of each on the long table in front of each char. The could make a pitcher, fill it with wine from 'wine bottles' found in the game. Players could sit in the chairs around the table. Then some players acting as servants could go around to each player and fill their goblet with wine from the pitcher. The each player could eat their food while they chatted. Then the host or guild leader could ask everyone to pick up their goblet of wine and stand for a toast. All of this was and is supported by UO's code, except that the wine goblet is in the backpack and not in their hand. This is where the support starts to run thin. Now the host says "Raise your goblet for a toast" And each player types (/raises goblet) and the game "speaks" for them *raises goblet*. This was UO's way of using text in place of animations. Better than nothing, and still support at least minimally. One player might even decide to (/spills a drop of wine) to get text *spills a drop of wine*. Another might type (/coughs) to get text saying *coughs*, or anything a player might want to emote. Then the host makes a toast, and they all drink their wine. No animations, the goblet is actually in their backpacks, but you do hear a slurp sound from each player.
See, that's a RPing game, as opposed to just players roleplaying on their own and just typing out what they are doing with no visuals or other game support. And it's much more immersive, aiding the players on their stage.
That's an Eagle soaring, vs. a Pig that can't fly. (per my comment above)
(could also ask to define an MMO, but that's only gonna cause a feedback loop of endless circlejerk, so...whatever)
This day and age it means “I don’t like it”. At least that’s how most people use it. So yeah, today’s mmos are dead. lol.
I'd say if it's in maintenance mode it's basically undead. If you're game looks empty because you have a few hundred players night and there should be thousands on each server... it might be dead.
You don't necessarily need thousands of paying players in the cash shop era but eh.
(could also ask to define an MMO, but that's only gonna cause a feedback loop of endless circlejerk, so...whatever)
This day and age it means “I don’t like it”. At least that’s how most people use it. So yeah, today’s mmos are dead. lol.
I'd say if it's in maintenance mode it's basically undead. If you're game looks empty because you have a few hundred players night and there should be thousands on each server... it might be dead.
You don't necessarily need thousands of paying players in the cash shop era but eh.
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
I can't "roleplay" in an action combat based MMO. No matter what skills my avatar has, it's based on my own mouse/keyboard skills
Of course you can. Role-play is not confined to one's game performance or the numerical values associated to a character, or by necessity linked to them at all. It is a product of one's imagination and the ability to suspend disbelief. It is the taking on of the persona and outlook of another for a time to vicariously experience from other perspectives. It is the pretending of being someone else simply for the fun of it. None of that is dependent on mouse/keyboard abilities.
You can't role-play game skill, but nothing prevents a person from role-playing in a game dependent on player skill. For example, if I was so inclined yet lacked the action skills to perform as well as would be expected by my character I could attribute my shortcoming to a lasting effect from previous injury that makes me less than I was, yet I am determined to go on regardless.
Easily done.
Of course I can't, for when my "supposed" master swodsman whiffs much of the time, I am reminded it is AlBQuirky in the game rather than Sven Swordthrust.
I don't play games to be "me in games", which is exactly what player skill based combat/games do.
Skyrim is hard to roleplay in because I can unlock master locks at 1st level. That's me, AlBQuirky, not my avatar. Many games including Skyrim require thought, so a roleplay of a dimwitted character will end the game quickly.
Many players have no trouble with this. I do. Just because YOU tell me I can does not make it so.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Not planed an MMO since FF14 came out and flopped, not played an MMO for more than several hours since 2005. For me the genre isn't MMO any more, and where I wanted the genre to go... it obviously hasn't. I even played WoW Classic and had more fun with it than anything I've played since, shows me it isn't Nostalgia, it's just a better MMO than anything else... still.
Not planed an MMO since FF14 came out and flopped, not played an MMO for more than several hours since 2005. For me the genre isn't MMO any more, and where I wanted the genre to go... it obviously hasn't. I even played WoW Classic and had more fun with it than anything I've played since, shows me it isn't Nostalgia, it's just a better MMO than anything else... still.
The genre isn't not only a MMO anymore but also not a RPG. What is supported that carries the letters RPG? ARPGS that are total garbage games,the Wowish clones that keep posting "numbers"look at how many are playing "like that matters" and the majority of players spend all their time playing connect the dots or in instance dungeons.
2 questions? Do we simply lack any good developers to make a mmorpg or are they just choosing to cater to a NON mmorpg crowd that pretends it is playing a mmorpg?
I know one thing for sure,marketing and cash shops are destroying gaming in it's entirety,not just mmorpg's.
We seem to be focusing a lot on mmorpg',well naturally since this site started as a mmorpg site but look around,99.9% of games are crap but have these 9/10....5/5 stars plastered all over them because of scummy people that are paid/bought off,kissing ass. Example,go look at Steam Valfaris,the game is a joke but has all those high rated scores all over it,yeah good job by all those scummy sites that endorsed a pile of crap game.
Good thing we have the FTC doing it's job eh,so much for fair marketing.This also answers that other thread where dude is wondering why Shenmue 2/3 did not garner any attention,guess they didn't pay enough people off.Maybe they should hold a Shenmuecon then que ue the crowd to cheer and give it high fives.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Not planed an MMO since FF14 came out and flopped, not played an MMO for more than several hours since 2005. For me the genre isn't MMO any more, and where I wanted the genre to go... it obviously hasn't. I even played WoW Classic and had more fun with it than anything I've played since, shows me it isn't Nostalgia, it's just a better MMO than anything else... still.
The genre isn't not only a MMO anymore but also not a RPG. What is supported that carries the letters RPG? ARPGS that are total garbage games,the Wowish clones that keep posting "numbers"look at how many are playing "like that matters" and the majority of players spend all their time playing connect the dots or in instance dungeons.
2 questions? Do we simply lack any good developers to make a mmorpg or are they just choosing to cater to a NON mmorpg crowd that pretends it is playing a mmorpg?
I know one thing for sure,marketing and cash shops are destroying gaming in it's entirety,not just mmorpg's.
We seem to be focusing a lot on mmorpg',well naturally since this site started as a mmorpg site but look around,99.9% of games are crap but have these 9/10....5/5 stars plastered all over them because of scummy people that are paid/bought off,kissing ass. Example,go look at Steam Valfaris,the game is a joke but has all those high rated scores all over it,yeah good job by all those scummy sites that endorsed a pile of crap game.
Good thing we have the FTC doing it's job eh,so much for fair marketing.This also answers that other thread where dude is wondering why Shenmue 2/3 did not garner any attention,guess they didn't pay enough people off.Maybe they should hold a Shenmuecon then que ue the crowd to cheer and give it high fives.
"Do we simply lack any good developers to make a mmorpg or are they just choosing to cater to a NON mmorpg crowd that pretends it is playing a mmorpg?"
I'd say that, generally speaking, it's both. But the onus is on the money men. The developers have been shoehorned into the current Cloned design, so many of them probably don't know how to put together anything else. That doesn't mean they can't learn, though. And to the second part, it's the financial backers who determine that they'll cater to the pretenders.
"I know one thing for sure,marketing and cash shops are destroying gaming in it's entirety,not just mmorpg's."
No doubt. Very desireable content is bought, not played for. And PTW, same thing. Even things like larger storage and supply of heal potions, that's stuff that would have been played for. They remove game play in a trade off of "easy for cash."
Whilst you can indeed roleplay in any game imaginable, it is only a roleplaying game if the roleplaying is supported by the game's mechanics directly.
More on topic, I'm certainly of the opinion that the MMO genre is dying in the west, but it seems healthy and happy in Asia. This seems to be backed up by the simple fact that western devs have largely given up on the genre. Last AAA release was what, ESO or GW2? Or Wildstar? Whichever, it was a long time ago. Amazon and Blizz both failed to develop a new AAA MMO. SC might get there eventually, but despite the money they still haven't released a game.
If it was still a healthy, growing genre, then western devs would be building the games. We, as consumers, may not have the insight and research, but dev studios do. They've done the research and concluded it's not worth it, so they've all fucked off and left it to the indie studios.
Finally, remember all things are cyclical. The genre may be in a shit place right now (my opinion), but it won't stay there and it won't be killed off completely. We may have to wait another 10 years, but the cycle will come back around and they'll be another great time for MMOs. There's also the chance of a tech breakthrough happening which could revolutionise MMOs. If, for example, quantum computers suddenly make it really easy to render 1000s of players at once, the MMO genre will explode overnight.
Whilst you can indeed roleplay in any game imaginable, it is only a roleplaying game if the roleplaying is supported by the game's mechanics directly.
More on topic, I'm certainly of the opinion that the MMO genre is dying in the west, but it seems healthy and happy in Asia. This seems to be backed up by the simple fact that western devs have largely given up on the genre. Last AAA release was what, ESO or GW2? Or Wildstar? Whichever, it was a long time ago. Amazon and Blizz both failed to develop a new AAA MMO. SC might get there eventually, but despite the money they still haven't released a game.
If it was still a healthy, growing genre, then western devs would be building the games. We, as consumers, may not have the insight and research, but dev studios do. They've done the research and concluded it's not worth it, so they've all fucked off and left it to the indie studios.
Finally, remember all things are cyclical. The genre may be in a shit place right now (my opinion), but it won't stay there and it won't be killed off completely. We may have to wait another 10 years, but the cycle will come back around and they'll be another great time for MMOs. There's also the chance of a tech breakthrough happening which could revolutionise MMOs. If, for example, quantum computers suddenly make it really easy to render 1000s of players at once, the MMO genre will explode overnight.
I agree with all of that. When I say "it's dead", I don't mean really totally dead, just dying a slow death, and I'm talking about in the West.
My sister-in-law is Korean but when our family gets together games don't make it into the conversation, so I never think to ask why Koreans seem to like MMORPGs so much. Maybe it's just all games, I have no idea.
Side note and off topic, they make some great furniture. Beautiful stuff in their traditional ways.
I still hope that a company will make a VR MMO so good that it will reinvigorate the genre in a whole new way.
I'm allowed to hope.
Yes you are, but not me.
Ya see, as an older guy, two old sayings relate to my feelings on VR. "I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than you." and "The legs are the first thing to go."
I still hope that a company will make a VR MMO so good that it will reinvigorate the genre in a whole new way.
I'm allowed to hope.
Yes you are, but not me.
Ya see, as an older guy, two old sayings relate to my feelings on VR. "I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than you." and "The legs are the first thing to go."
VR scares me to death.
I'm also an old guy... I'm just not old and worthless.
I still hope that a company will make a VR MMO so good that it will reinvigorate the genre in a whole new way.
I'm allowed to hope.
Yes you are, but not me.
Ya see, as an older guy, two old sayings relate to my feelings on VR. "I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than you." and "The legs are the first thing to go."
VR scares me to death.
I'm also an old guy... I'm just not old and worthless.
BTW, you can play sitting down.
Well, I'll make up for you by being my usual worthless self. Yah, I know you can sit down while playing VR, I just had this image of the Star Trek VR room (I forget what they called it at the moment, me being worthless, lol) in my head and how the heck I'd ever "rune away, run away" in a Monty Python program. I may be rabbit food, or cow splat, or whatever.
I still hope that a company will make a VR MMO so good that it will reinvigorate the genre in a whole new way.
I'm allowed to hope.
Yes you are, but not me.
Ya see, as an older guy, two old sayings relate to my feelings on VR. "I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than you." and "The legs are the first thing to go."
VR scares me to death.
I'm also an old guy... I'm just not old and worthless.
BTW, you can play sitting down.
Well, I'll make up for you by being my usual worthless self. Yah, I know you can sit down while playing VR, I just had this image of the Star Trek VR room (I forget what they called it at the moment, me being worthless, lol) in my head and how the heck I'd ever "rune away, run away" in a Monty Python program. I may be rabbit food, or cow splat, or whatever.
The holodeck...lol. VR isn't the holodeck, but it's still cool. The hardest part is the few days after you get it dealing with motion sickness. After than, it's awesome.
Any MMO can be role played. Nothing in an MMO forces role playing.
Therefore all MMOs are MMORPGs and all MMORPGs are MMOs. It just depends on your playstyle, not your stupid perception of the term.
If you said "what type of MMO", I would reply "the MMO type, what kind of question is that?"... because it's a ridiculous question.
Yeah, and pigs can fly just as well as eagles.
He's right, assuming by role-play he means the portraying of his character as a persona other than himself. Such can be done in any game, even single-player ones that provide choice if the player selects options based on what he feels his character would do rather than what he himself would choose in that same situation.
At the same time, I see little in terms of role-play in the vast majority of the MMORPGs I have played and it has no effect on the game continuing to grind along.
The only inherent RPG element of MMORPGs is that of JRPG console games, where it is more a reference to the progression of the character over time than actual role-play.
I can't "roleplay" in an action combat based MMO. No matter what skills my avatar has, it's based on my own mouse/keyboard skills
Of course you can. Role-play is not confined to one's game performance or the numerical values associated to a character, or by necessity linked to them at all. It is a product of one's imagination and the ability to suspend disbelief. It is the taking on of the persona and outlook of another for a time to vicariously experience from other perspectives. It is the pretending of being someone else simply for the fun of it. None of that is dependent on mouse/keyboard abilities.
You can't role-play game skill, but nothing prevents a person from role-playing in a game dependent on player skill. For example, if I was so inclined yet lacked the action skills to perform as well as would be expected by my character I could attribute my shortcoming to a lasting effect from previous injury that makes me less than I was, yet I am determined to go on regardless.
Easily done.
You can RP in any single-player game then as well. That is not the point of an online multiplayer game. Yes many play them solo, but are they RP lone-wolf hermits? If you try to actually role-play with other people in these games you will most likely be laughed at or ignored.
Why would a person role-playing a hermit seek to interact with others.
That would be rather out of character, don't you think?
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
And you need more than just player statements for depth. You need actions and props. Otherwise, it pretty much falls on deaf ears, so to speak.
Your example is about as good as it gets, without such support from the game.
That's you RPing, but the game isn't what anyone would call a RPing game. So, yes, you are right, but it's effect with other players has no support from the game whatsoever. No feedback.
As an example of game support:
In UO players could make tables and chairs, and set them up as one long table with chairs all around.
They could make plates, silverware, and goblets. They could set these around in front of each chair.
Then they could cook ribs and bowls of peas and set one of each on the long table in front of each char.
The could make a pitcher, fill it with wine from 'wine bottles' found in the game.
Players could sit in the chairs around the table.
Then some players acting as servants could go around to each player and fill their goblet with wine from the pitcher.
The each player could eat their food while they chatted.
Then the host or guild leader could ask everyone to pick up their goblet of wine and stand for a toast.
All of this was and is supported by UO's code, except that the wine goblet is in the backpack and not in their hand. This is where the support starts to run thin.
Now the host says "Raise your goblet for a toast"
And each player types (/raises goblet) and the game "speaks" for them *raises goblet*.
This was UO's way of using text in place of animations. Better than nothing, and still support at least minimally.
One player might even decide to (/spills a drop of wine) to get text *spills a drop of wine*.
Another might type (/coughs) to get text saying *coughs*, or anything a player might want to emote.
Then the host makes a toast, and they all drink their wine. No animations, the goblet is actually in their backpacks, but you do hear a slurp sound from each player.
See, that's a RPing game, as opposed to just players roleplaying on their own and just typing out what they are doing with no visuals or other game support.
And it's much more immersive, aiding the players on their stage.
That's an Eagle soaring, vs. a Pig that can't fly. (per my comment above)
Once upon a time....
You don't necessarily need thousands of paying players in the cash shop era but eh.
Once upon a time....
I don't play games to be "me in games", which is exactly what player skill based combat/games do.
Skyrim is hard to roleplay in because I can unlock master locks at 1st level. That's me, AlBQuirky, not my avatar. Many games including Skyrim require thought, so a roleplay of a dimwitted character will end the game quickly.
Many players have no trouble with this. I do. Just because YOU tell me I can does not make it so.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
What is supported that carries the letters RPG? ARPGS that are total garbage games,the Wowish clones that keep posting "numbers"look at how many are playing "like that matters" and the majority of players spend all their time playing connect the dots or in instance dungeons.
2 questions? Do we simply lack any good developers to make a mmorpg or are they just choosing to cater to a NON mmorpg crowd that pretends it is playing a mmorpg?
I know one thing for sure,marketing and cash shops are destroying gaming in it's entirety,not just mmorpg's.
We seem to be focusing a lot on mmorpg',well naturally since this site started as a mmorpg site but look around,99.9% of games are crap but have these 9/10....5/5 stars plastered all over them because of scummy people that are paid/bought off,kissing ass.
Example,go look at Steam Valfaris,the game is a joke but has all those high rated scores all over it,yeah good job by all those scummy sites that endorsed a pile of crap game.
Good thing we have the FTC doing it's job eh,so much for fair marketing.This also answers that other thread where dude is wondering why Shenmue 2/3 did not garner any attention,guess they didn't pay enough people off.Maybe they should hold a Shenmuecon then que ue the crowd to cheer and give it high fives.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'd say that, generally speaking, it's both. But the onus is on the money men.
The developers have been shoehorned into the current Cloned design, so many of them probably don't know how to put together anything else. That doesn't mean they can't learn, though.
And to the second part, it's the financial backers who determine that they'll cater to the pretenders.
"I know one thing for sure,marketing and cash shops are destroying gaming in it's entirety,not just mmorpg's."
No doubt. Very desireable content is bought, not played for. And PTW, same thing.
Even things like larger storage and supply of heal potions, that's stuff that would have been played for. They remove game play in a trade off of "easy for cash."
Once upon a time....
My sister-in-law is Korean but when our family gets together games don't make it into the conversation, so I never think to ask why Koreans seem to like MMORPGs so much. Maybe it's just all games, I have no idea.
Side note and off topic, they make some great furniture. Beautiful stuff in their traditional ways.
Once upon a time....
Ya see, as an older guy, two old sayings relate to my feelings on VR.
"I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than you."
and
"The legs are the first thing to go."
VR scares me to death.
Once upon a time....
Yah, I know you can sit down while playing VR, I just had this image of the Star Trek VR room (I forget what they called it at the moment, me being worthless, lol) in my head and how the heck I'd ever "rune away, run away" in a Monty Python program. I may be rabbit food, or cow splat, or whatever.
Once upon a time....
The holodeck...lol. VR isn't the holodeck, but it's still cool. The hardest part is the few days after you get it dealing with motion sickness. After than, it's awesome.