Crowfall – Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

System

Crowfall – Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes

Crowfall approaches a new phase in development and Red Thomas takes a trip to Austin to learn more about what the team is doing leading up to the end of another year in development. Cool things are on the horizon for backers as Crowfall slips towards the final form. Red also coins a new term that will soon be used industry-wide.

Read the full story here

Volenibblets

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Aeander

Let us know when it la-la-la-la-launches.

Kajidourden

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

Elvoc

Lets just hope there is still interest in this when it finally does launch, i think there is such a thing as "too long of a development phase" Ive been a backer since day 1 and forgot I even have access to this game..

BlueThunderBear

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

bcbully

So what was the term...

Arkade99

BlueThunderBear said:

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

Perhaps, but there were legitimate things that pushed the timeline back. They started with combat, but that had to go through several iterations before they settled on a system they liked. Beyond that, they made the decision to split archetypes into races and classes. 

They could have stuck to their guns, kept he original animation locked combat and archetypes and delivered the game sooner, but the game would have ultimately been worse for it.

The kickstarter ended in March of 2015, so they are coming up on 5 years in development, which isn't really that long considering how long most MMOs take to make. There are other MMOs that have been in development longer and are further from release. 

Crowfall will release some time in 2020. You can bet on that.

BlueThunderBear

Arkade99 said:

BlueThunderBear said:

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

Perhaps, but there were legitimate things that pushed the timeline back. They started with combat, but that had to go through several iterations before they settled on a system they liked. Beyond that, they made the decision to split archetypes into races and classes. 

They could have stuck to their guns, kept he original animation locked combat and archetypes and delivered the game sooner, but the game would have ultimately been worse for it.

The kickstarter ended in March of 2015, so they are coming up on 5 years in development, which isn't really that long considering how long most MMOs take to make. There are other MMOs that have been in development longer and are further from release. 

Crowfall will release some time in 2020. You can bet on that.

I would actually be willing to bet that it will not

alkarionlog

Arkade99 said:

BlueThunderBear said:

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

Perhaps, but there were legitimate things that pushed the timeline back. They started with combat, but that had to go through several iterations before they settled on a system they liked. Beyond that, they made the decision to split archetypes into races and classes. 

They could have stuck to their guns, kept he original animation locked combat and archetypes and delivered the game sooner, but the game would have ultimately been worse for it.

The kickstarter ended in March of 2015, so they are coming up on 5 years in development, which isn't really that long considering how long most MMOs take to make. There are other MMOs that have been in development longer and are further from release. 

Crowfall will release some time in 2020. You can bet on that.

I belive release is a strong word for this

Holdslowhope

Another game that will not release and has no real depth to it. Even if it does release it will die within a month of the grind

Lukzfresh

This was a very hard read for someone who is ADD. I got about 5%

Avanah

N-N-N-No Thanks.

Red_Thomas

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

I find this sentiment really interesting.  Just because folks don't hear about a game until right before it releases, doesn't mean it's only been in development that long.

I'm curious what everyone thinks a normal timeline for development is.   Five or six years for a smaller independent studio is pretty common.   What I think you need to look for is persistent progress.   That's where you start seeing the differences between some of the projects.

H0urg1ass

Red_Thomas said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

   Five or six years for a smaller independent studio is pretty common.   

Hell, five or six years for a full blown studio, hundreds of millions of dollars of funding, entire departments working on different parts of the game is common.

Just look at some major releases of the past decade.  SWTOR took five years to develop with a rumored 300 million in funds.  ESO took seven years.  GW 2 took five years.  Wildstar took NINE years and was gone in just over four.

So when it comes to smaller studios attempting to crank out titles that compete with AAA studio games, then who knows how long it will take.

The real problem here is that AAA studios can work on a game in silence for several years before announcing it, therefore there's less time between announcement and launch.  They have the capital to be able to do that.  But smaller studios going for crowd funding have to announce often before any semblance of a game is established, so you pay your money and you're waiting a decade to play your game.

Albatroes

H0urg1ass said:

Red_Thomas said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

   Five or six years for a smaller independent studio is pretty common.   

Hell, five or six years for a full blown studio, hundreds of millions of dollars of funding, entire departments working on different parts of the game is common.

Just look at some major releases of the past decade.  SWTOR took five years to develop with a rumored 300 million in funds.  ESO took seven years.  GW 2 took five years.  Wildstar took NINE years and was gone in just over four.

So when it comes to smaller studios attempting to crank out titles that compete with AAA studio games, then who knows how long it will take.

The real problem here is that AAA studios can work on a game in silence for several years before announcing it, therefore there's less time between announcement and launch.  They have the capital to be able to do that.  But smaller studios going for crowd funding have to announce often before any semblance of a game is established, so you pay your money and you're waiting a decade to play your game.

Agreed. Lets not forget that Anthem was supposedly in "development" for 6 years, just for it to release into early access. Hopefully in anothe 2 years it'll be released

Red_Thomas

H0urg1ass said:

Red_Thomas said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

   Five or six years for a smaller independent studio is pretty common.   

Hell, five or six years for a full blown studio, hundreds of millions of dollars of funding, entire departments working on different parts of the game is common.

Just look at some major releases of the past decade.  SWTOR took five years to develop with a rumored 300 million in funds.  ESO took seven years.  GW 2 took five years.  Wildstar took NINE years and was gone in just over four.

So when it comes to smaller studios attempting to crank out titles that compete with AAA studio games, then who knows how long it will take.

The real problem here is that AAA studios can work on a game in silence for several years before announcing it, therefore there's less time between announcement and launch.  They have the capital to be able to do that.  But smaller studios going for crowd funding have to announce often before any semblance of a game is established, so you pay your money and you're waiting a decade to play your game.

That's one of the reasons that I think we'll see crowdfunding go away.  We'll probably see it popping up as a publicity stunt just before release as we move forward, but I don't think that'll last long.   Folks don't want to "crowdfund" a nearly completed game.   They might find someway of getting the crowd to fund something like extra collectors editions stuff like maps, keychains, models, ect.   Maybe fund the publishers sending the games to cons or something.   I think they'll have to change that model in someway if they're going to capture the PR-boost crowdfunding allows after they've changed their development model away from open development.

Kyleran

Arkade99 said:

BlueThunderBear said:

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

Perhaps, but there were legitimate things that pushed the timeline back. They started with combat, but that had to go through several iterations before they settled on a system they liked. Beyond that, they made the decision to split archetypes into races and classes. 

They could have stuck to their guns, kept he original animation locked combat and archetypes and delivered the game sooner, but the game would have ultimately been worse for it.

The kickstarter ended in March of 2015, so they are coming up on 5 years in development, which isn't really that long considering how long most MMOs take to make. There are other MMOs that have been in development longer and are further from release. 

Crowfall will release some time in 2020. You can bet on that.

Time for a mini myth buster, Crowfall was in development prior to the KSer, according to this quote from the campaign. How long before, who can really say but seems like a year or so perhaps.

"Much of the core module work has already been done; we are looking to the community to help us finish it. "

Kyleran

Red_Thomas said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

I find this sentiment really interesting.  Just because folks don't hear about a game until right before it releases, doesn't mean it's only been in development that long.

I'm curious what everyone thinks a normal timeline for development is.   Five or six years for a smaller independent studio is pretty common.   What I think you need to look for is persistent progress.   That's where you start seeing the differences between some of the projects.

I can tell you Red, so can many others, but apparently experienced MMORPG designers have no idea...or flat out lied when providing their original estimates which seems to be prevalent in this model.

CF devs promised to "deliver" the "core model" within a year and a half or so.

"The core module is estimated to be delivered by Winter 2016. First release (with partial functionality) will begin alpha testing in late Summer 2015."

I'll have to leave it to those who play on whether the core is fully there yet, doesn't seem finished to me and no, I won't split hairs on the term "released" though I'm sure some here will try.

Now if we go with either theory (incompetent or liars) on why these games are all long past their dates yet still cannot provide a final target it doesn't put much credibility behind anything they say today.

Unfortunately it diminishes your credibility when you believe their promises and appear to drink the Kool-Aid, but I understand after reading your SotA coverage, white knighting is just sort of what you do.

Is OK, I remain firmly living under the bridge and we are both happy with our neighborhoods.

Arkade99

Kyleran said:

Arkade99 said:

BlueThunderBear said:

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

Perhaps, but there were legitimate things that pushed the timeline back. They started with combat, but that had to go through several iterations before they settled on a system they liked. Beyond that, they made the decision to split archetypes into races and classes. 

They could have stuck to their guns, kept he original animation locked combat and archetypes and delivered the game sooner, but the game would have ultimately been worse for it.

The kickstarter ended in March of 2015, so they are coming up on 5 years in development, which isn't really that long considering how long most MMOs take to make. There are other MMOs that have been in development longer and are further from release. 

Crowfall will release some time in 2020. You can bet on that.

Time for a mini myth buster, Crowfall was in development prior to the KSer, according to this quote from the campaign. How long before, who can really say but seems like a year or so perhaps.

"Much of the core module work has already been done; we are looking to the community to help us finish it. "

Keep reading. It goes on to say "Specifically, we will use these funds to build:" and then lists things like Character Creation, World, Combat, Economy, Persistence, Eternal Kingdoms and Campaign Rules. So, basically everything.

There's no myth here. They built a demo. The first thing they produced post KS was Hunger Dome, so if any of it was done prior to the KS, then it went into Hunger Dome, which consisted of only 3 archetypes, which were later split into race and class, and combat mechanics that were later changed twice.

So yeah, not everything in the KS was 100% correct. Welcome to 2019.

vandamage420

"I left for the trip with some optimism because the pace of development is falling pretty well in line with what I would have expected, and that gives me a lot of confidence in the project. What I learned both confirmed my expectations and surprised me at the same time."

That statement is very sad - I paid for this game like 5 years ago - pretty much wrote off that 40 bux as a never again moment a long time ago

ShinyFlygon

I've seen a lot of vaporware MMOs come and go in my day, and this thing is following the same trajectory as the rest -- albeit at a slower pace. I wonder how much more cash they'll be able to siphon from the investors like poor Red here.

Arkade99

ShinyFlygon said:

I've seen a lot of vaporware MMOs come and go in my day, and this thing is following the same trajectory as the rest -- albeit at a slower pace. I wonder how much more cash they'll be able to siphon from the investors like poor Red here.

You might want to look up the meaning of vaporware. This game has been playable for a long time. 

And just so you know, less than 20% of the funds came from crowdfunding. 

https://crowfall.com/en-US/funding

I don't care if you want to criticize the game, but at least educate yourself so you can do it intelligently.

Kyleran

Arkade99 said:

Kyleran said:

Arkade99 said:

BlueThunderBear said:

Kajidourden said:

DMKano said:

Volenibblets said:

I hope they have a good internet connection in the retirement home I eventually get sent to. Can't wait to play this!

Yep.

It feels like this game has been in development for decades

And yet it's still farther along than any other KS mmo before or since with the exception of Shroud of the Avatar which morphed into a not mmo.

It should be further along considering the time and resources they've had....

Perhaps, but there were legitimate things that pushed the timeline back. They started with combat, but that had to go through several iterations before they settled on a system they liked. Beyond that, they made the decision to split archetypes into races and classes. 

They could have stuck to their guns, kept he original animation locked combat and archetypes and delivered the game sooner, but the game would have ultimately been worse for it.

The kickstarter ended in March of 2015, so they are coming up on 5 years in development, which isn't really that long considering how long most MMOs take to make. There are other MMOs that have been in development longer and are further from release. 

Crowfall will release some time in 2020. You can bet on that.

Time for a mini myth buster, Crowfall was in development prior to the KSer, according to this quote from the campaign. How long before, who can really say but seems like a year or so perhaps.

"Much of the core module work has already been done; we are looking to the community to help us finish it. "

Keep reading. It goes on to say "Specifically, we will use these funds to build:" and then lists things like Character Creation, World, Combat, Economy, Persistence, Eternal Kingdoms and Campaign Rules. So, basically everything.

There's no myth here. They built a demo. The first thing they produced post KS was Hunger Dome, so if any of it was done prior to the KS, then it went into Hunger Dome, which consisted of only 3 archetypes, which were later split into race and class, and combat mechanics that were later changed twice.

So yeah, not everything in the KS was 100% correct. Welcome to 2019.

Ahh, but they originally discussed "soft launch" (one of better inventions of a new weasel word in this decade) by the end of 2017.

It was to be delayed until "early 2018" but as we hit 2020 where the heck is it, not even a re-plan date at this point.

[As a result, ArtCraft will be looking to soft launch Crowfall as early in 2018 as possible.

“This has been a FANTASTIC year of progress for the project,” reads the post. 

“But ‘progress’ isn’t the same as ‘done’, and obviously there isn’t enough time left in 2017 to get everything done. The goal is to make Crowfall a virtual world unlike any other, a game where we hand the fate of the world to you, the players.”]

https://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/crowfall-pushes-back-soft-launch-date/

"Not everything in the Kickstarter was correct?" How about much of it was a flat out lie, at least in terms of the game's progress and projected release date.

So I have to ask once again, based on their history of either incompetence or dishonesty why should anyone believe what they say today.

This is the original MMO which started the meme,  "18 more months"

Welcome to 2020....oops wait, maybe for soft launch, full release definitely 2021 or beyond.

Kyleran

Arkade99 said:

ShinyFlygon said:

I've seen a lot of vaporware MMOs come and go in my day, and this thing is following the same trajectory as the rest -- albeit at a slower pace. I wonder how much more cash they'll be able to siphon from the investors like poor Red here.

You might want to look up the meaning of vaporware. This game has been playable for a long time. 

And just so you know, less than 20% of the funds came from crowdfunding. 

https://crowfall.com/en-US/funding

I don't care if you want to criticize the game, but at least educate yourself so you can do it intelligently.

That's a great point actually,  they are far more beholden to their investors to keep them happy so they can pretty much ignore any promises made to the original backers.

They're nailing that one pretty well I'd say, especially considering support from those such as yourself.

  

SpottyGekko

And people still wonder why no big studio wants to attempt a new MMO in the western market ?